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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sorxus
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Posted - 2011.02.17 01:13:00 -
[631]
Jovians have very advanced cloaking technology that it is impossible to detect anything with our current technology. If they want to hide something from our eyes it will be so.
Rogue drones have many similarities to sleepers that's why they are handy in safely harvesting isogen-5.
don't know were rogue drones made for that purpose or forced/modified to harvest isogen-5.
Also, i would be very thankful if someone could provide info about shattered planets description in w-space.
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Ruzyho
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Posted - 2011.02.19 16:08:00 -
[632]
I find all of this talk interesting but im not sure on how all of it fits together. My theory is in this trailer CDIA Files: Sansha Incursions. Its probably most likely when they take citizens from the planets the sell/give/trade to the Sleepers or something along those lines. I can fly a buzzard but im just looking for a good fit on one for exploration/probing. Sif you have any I could use that'd be great. Fly Safe 07
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Cave Lord
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Posted - 2011.02.19 19:10:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Ruzyho I find all of this talk interesting but im not sure on how all of it fits together. My theory is in this trailer CDIA Files: Sansha Incursions. Its probably most likely when they take citizens from the planets the sell/give/trade to the Sleepers or something along those lines. I can fly a buzzard but im just looking for a good fit on one for exploration/probing. Sif you have any I could use that'd be great. Fly Safe 07
If you just want to fly around in wormholes looking at everything, I suggest a Zephyr. Tiny signature (Hard for others to scan you down), small, fast, and sleepers completely leave you alone. The downside is that you really can't do anything but look.
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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.02.19 19:43:00 -
[634]
Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 19/02/2011 19:45:48 Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 19/02/2011 19:44:42 The Seylin incident involved 10 stars in known space and not all have shattered planets. SeyllinEssence 3hqc-6Outer Ring 5-cse3Paragon Soul Eawe-2Stain Z8-81tImmensea Sl-ybsGreat Wildlands T-ipzbDelve 35-rk9Syndicate R79-i7A821-a Y0-bvnVale of the Silent
Also that picture reminded me of the fact that there are two one time missions from CONCORD. One sends you to destroy the structure in the picture and explains somewhat it is. Both missions involve rogue drones.
http://www.hb3.info/cosmos/concord_agenten.html
If you plan on doing the mission in Mandoo do you homework and do it in a ship that cant probed out, no drones and bring a cargo scanner for Lazron so you can wait to kill him when he has goodies in his cargo, the mission resets at downtime when it is not completed. Good luck. It earned me about 3 bil across 4 characters. Dont tell anyone else. And you will be probed out if you are not carefull. They steel both the goodies and Torin.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.20 00:48:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe The Seylin incident involved 10 stars in known space and not all have shattered planets. 5-cse3Paragon Soul R79-i7A821-a Y0-bvnVale of the Silent
It was your original posting of these that made me throw up my hands and all but quit looking to begin with. This specifically was what I asked my "mystery source" about - how you and he got 10 (and so does the Apocrypha trailer). I have personally visited Y0-BVN and can confirm that there is no shattered planet. The Apocrypha trailer very clearly highlights 5-CSE3, which also is reportedly unshattered. His answer was:
Originally by: Anonmyous CONCORD Source I can confirm that there definitely were a total of ten recorded Main Sequence Anomalies in and around the New Eden cluster, not all of the anomalies took place in inhabited star systems, and some even took place in star systems located just outside the stargate network. This accounts for the three k-space Anomaliesáyou were unable to find evidence of.
Again, I completely understand if you don't trust my source, but I find his explanation more rational than what I see in-game in those systems. What if they were only highlighted because they were the closest A0 Blue things on the "tracked systems" map, and not the actual system where it occurred? R79-I7 is in Jove space and 5-CSE3 is so far off the beaten path it is likely no one would ever have known.
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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.02.20 02:36:00 -
[636]
My theory is that the planets were just innocent bystanders that got in the way. The isogen ignited, except for the first one, due to some kind of subspace wave and started drawing in high energy stuff from the sun through the planet.
The book(The Empyrean Age) clearly says the pocket in delve was directly in the shadow of the planet. I think the reason is the stuff was behind a planet was to protect it from solar flares and things like that that might accidentally ignite the lot. There could be other ways to have protected it in the systems where there was no planet destroyed.
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Arvash
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.20 15:49:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe My theory is that the planets were just innocent bystanders that got in the way. The isogen ignited, except for the first one, due to some kind of subspace wave and started drawing in high energy stuff from the sun through the planet.
The book(The Empyrean Age) clearly says the pocket in delve was directly in the shadow of the planet. I think the reason is the stuff was behind a planet was to protect it from solar flares and things like that that might accidentally ignite the lot. There could be other ways to have protected it in the systems where there was no planet destroyed.
I've based much of my theory on the matter on the Seyllin Report, which postulates that each shattered planet had a localized cache located halfway between the planet and the sun. This makes much more sense to me than one lone pocket in T-IPZB. It explains how the sun energy in each system was "aimed" at the planet, rather than dissipating into space. It spreads the overall volume of Isogen-5 needed into several systems rather than one unbelievably big one in one system. This may or may not mean that the planets were an intentional part of the equation. I suspect that they were simply gravitational anchors for the Isogen caches. I'm reading Empyrean Age now - haven't gotten that far yet. I also wonder if "shadow of the planet" might be metaphorical rather than literal?
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Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2011.02.20 17:58:00 -
[638]
Right, the Seyllin report, reading it now.
You will find that finding the Delve isogen-5 stash was made a very big thing in the book. Even making a link to Amarr scripture describing the place, although that could have been allegoric coincidence if there is such a thing. Also the presence of a station of unknown origin makes it very clear, to me anyway, the position of the isogen is of importance.
The stuff is highly volatile, and if you have no means of reducing that using the planets magnetic field helps a lot to steer most of the solar wind away.
Especially for Blue stars I can imagine the solar wind is extra energetic. After a little google I found this article of a very similar situation Mercury Magnetosphere fends of Solar wind
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.20 22:42:00 -
[639]
I don't thinks its ever been said the cache was half-way between star and planet just that it was between.
I've mentioned Lagrangian points before, L1 is found at the point between a plant and sun where gravity holds objects in equilibrium.
The Station in Empyrean Age seems to be placed at the L2 point.
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Sorxus
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Posted - 2011.02.21 00:31:00 -
[640]
Edited by: Sorxus on 21/02/2011 00:35:07 Edited by: Sorxus on 21/02/2011 00:32:54 Was thinking more about sleepers while not forgetting other, more general information.
Sleepers were descendants of terrans. So original sleeper source (the place they came from) should be New Eden solar system. Confirmed, there are sleeper remains near New Eden solar system. The other place, where we can find sleeper remains is Ani constellation (Minmatar cosmos). Now letÆs make a theory. The moment EVE gate collapsed. People on our side are left without support, low on resources. The elite people (politicians, scientists etc) gathers together, takes what is best, ships, technology etc and starts their journey back ôhomeö, because they donÆt want to suffer slow death on these newly found, unknown planets. (terrans should have known the exact coordinates of newly found galaxy in the universe and which way it is). But not all people moved, most of those poor guys (us) are left behind. Now letÆs draw a line between sleeper remains near New Eden solar system and Ani constellation to know the approximate way they were moving.
Map
We can see that current jovian lands are in their way. Jovians might be descendants of sleepers. Why? How do you think, why jovians advanced so quicky? Faster, than those poor people left behind with almost nothing in their possession. Original (early) sleeper ships were piloted by human beings.
Neurovisual input matrix: ôUsed in conjunction with other equipment inside the capsule, neurovisual input matrices serve the vital function of translating external stimuli into visual data. Ship identifier tags, hostile threat indicators and tactical overlay interfaces are all typical examples of N.I.M at work.ö
LetÆs say sleepers were traveling vast distances across our galaxy and the moment they reached approximate location where currently jovians live, stopped and said: ôthis will lead us to nowhere, the distance is too long, our conscious, our bodies wonÆt handle that longàö So they decided to move their conscious into temporary ôsleepö and let the AI to handle the journey for them. Not all of them were able to bear this, some of them decided to separate and settle in (current jovians).
Emergent combat intelligence: ôEmergent system development is said to have been an early focal point in Jovian software design, where they hoped to create an atmosphere in which an advanced system could self-assemble its own consciousness and thus ôemergeö as a sentient being. What became of these projects remains unknown, although the Jovians appear to have abandoned these pursuits many millennia ago in favor of something more tangible and containable.ö
Now maybe those, who decided to continue their journey, had to invent, research the AI to work for them. Maybe lots of mistakes, fail research jobs were made in that time. Maybe those failed AI drones were early rogue drones (we know that not very far are current drone lands). They put themselves into a temporary sleep and continue their journey. As their journey continued they advanced, sleeper drones became ôstrongerö, but to a limited point.
Emergent combat intelligence: ôà various hard limitations have been encoded into the device at the most fundamental level, greatly limiting its potential to evolve any further.ö
So maybe when we face stronger sleepers in higher class w-spaces means that we are further away from our known space, but still in our galaxy.
Maybe sleeper drones are still on their wayà or maybe theyÆve reached their destinationà
Ancient coordinates database: ôA brief analysis of the technology inside reveals that the database may in fact still be fully functional. The format and layout of the information within suggests it is a list of three-dimensional coordinates, charting a path to some distant place.ö
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.21 05:41:00 -
[641]
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 21/02/2011 05:41:00 Nice theory above, but it falls down on two points:
Originally by: Sorxus Maybe those failed AI drones were early rogue drones
We already know where rogue drones come from; an experiment into advanced AI that went awry. See Operation Spectrum Breach for more backstory.
Originally by: Sorxus Now letÆs draw a line between sleeper remains near New Eden solar system and Ani constellation to know the approximate way they were moving.
We can see that current jovian lands are in their way.
This means nothing, as the first and second Jovian empires (which would be the relevant ones for that time period) were actually based in the Curse, Geminate, and Vale of the Silent regions. The Jovian "homeworld" is the planet Utopia in the Heaven constellation in Curse. Linkage
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:22:00 -
[642]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 21/02/2011 09:24:34
Originally by: Jovan Geldon We already know where rogue drones come from; an experiment into advanced AI that went awry. See Operation Spectrum Breach for more backstory.
Except, as the wiki page also states, nobody really knows what caused the drones to go rogue. The close proximity between the Jove Empire(s) and the Drone Regions might not be a coincidence at all.
Damn it, I have to record all of the SOE epic arc.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:52:00 -
[643]
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 21/02/2011 09:52:14
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Damn it, I have to record all of the SOE epic arc.
I was considering running it again for the standings boost actually. Drop me a mail if you need a hand.
You may also be right about the Jovian thing, but I suspect that physical proximity to Jovian space wouldn't be a contributing factor; we're all well aware of how many pies they have their fingers in across all of New Eden.
I might read up on some of the Chrons again, see if there's any hints I've missed.
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Sorxus
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:38:00 -
[644]
Edited by: Sorxus on 21/02/2011 13:41:14 Edited by: Sorxus on 21/02/2011 13:39:48 Looks like rogue drones don't fit in the beginning of our history, they are much newer. Now, could it be that sad fate of talocans (disease) forced sleepers to go "asleep".
Also. Can't find any info what triggered isogen-5 explosions across the galaxy. Could it be so that the disaster which happened in terran galaxy has released some sort of energy wave, spreading all the ways across the universe. and finally, after thousands of years it reached our galaxy, triggering isogen-5 explosions. As the wave spread, first explosions appeared in w-space (closest systems to terrans). If anyone could provide any info about those shattered planets in w-space, maybe it could give more clues.
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Gouzu Kho
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:53:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Sorxus
Also. Can't find any info what triggered isogen-5 explosions across the galaxy...
The 6 chronicles with the title "End of the world" have a lot of info about the event. |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:13:00 -
[646]
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 21/02/2011 18:14:44 Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 21/02/2011 18:13:23 1. "The Spiral" 2. "Half a Life" 3. "1" 4. "The Great Harvest" 5. "We Humans" 6. "World on Fire"[/*]
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Roga Dracor
Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:01:00 -
[647]
Edited by: Roga Dracor on 22/02/2011 00:03:06 Just finished the Bloodstained Stars. It ties the chronicles together rather neatly. Dagan is a Jovian operative for the SoCT, that you chase all over Genesis, because he has drone related software, which is apparently who gave the access codes to the Blood Raiders. Which is what infuriated the drones and made them listen to the logic of the Matari commander.
There are also some hints about the Sleepers and the drones, which are definitely not the same. At the end a huge Drone assembly hovers near the Empire and Sisters ship as you hand Dagan over for his helping of justice. Watching, as if for satisfaction. When the transfer is done, the Drone Assembly just disappears, with all kinds of spatial distortion graphics remaining, as if they "left" somehow.
Sister Alitura then says that you can inform the Empires the drones will not be a major problem from here on out. As if a deal was struck.
All rather seems to imply the Drones may have learned more about the technology they were being forced to interact with than their captors intended.
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K'hanesh Lor'al
Amarr The Golden Knights
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Posted - 2011.02.22 14:08:00 -
[648]
FYI - I'm just completeing Blood Stanied Stars again on an alt, I would like to point out that when the first option appears to choose one of two missions (Bag of Blood is the one I picked), and you have to help "track" a "mysterious drone" you warp between spatial rifts and the "Drone" is a cruiser-class Sleeper.
Not F-ing with you... take a look. I am at work, but I did screenshot it last night before going to bed. Will try to link it later this week.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.22 14:30:00 -
[649]
Originally by: K'hanesh Lor'al I would like to point out that...you have to help "track" a "mysterious drone" you warp between spatial rifts and the "Drone" is a cruiser-class Sleeper.
We know, trust me
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K'hanesh Lor'al
Amarr The Golden Knights
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Posted - 2011.02.22 14:47:00 -
[650]
^^^^
Lol, sometime I WILL find something you guys haven't yet, dammit !!!!!
J/K... keep up the good work, these amazing threadnaughts keep my brain working (something it hasn't done in years)!
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Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
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Posted - 2011.02.23 01:41:00 -
[651]
Originally by: K'hanesh Lor'al ^^^^
Lol, sometime I WILL find something you guys haven't yet, dammit !!!!!
J/K... keep up the good work, these amazing threadnaughts keep my brain working (something it hasn't done in years)!
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
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Aedeal
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Posted - 2011.02.23 09:19:00 -
[652]
So Rogue Drones... iirc the Gallente were experimenting with advanced AI, which 'triggered' the first 'rogue drones'. Can anyone find the references for that?
The second thing is that during the SoE epic arc, drones go rogue (mentioned near the start, anyone have reference?). Not rogue-drone created drones, but Gallente manufactured regular drones going mad. From that, it seems that someone somewhere can tap into them remotely and modify their behaviour (also seen in the Burning Stars). Which leads to the question: If the first rogue drones were advanced semi-autonomous 'standard' drones; did they 'fall' into awareness or were they 'pushed'? Rogue drones display a level of autonomy found nowhere else in EVE, and have access to a ton of knowledge that we 'humans' do not. Monkeys and Typewriters are all very well, but why would rogue drones improve on a cache of Isogen V? They didn't create it, it was there and they added to it.
More questions? Or starting to get an answer?
I'm thinking it's possible that someone, somewhere, has had plans for us for a very very long time. The question is, why, and what do they want out of it?
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Sorxus
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Posted - 2011.02.23 12:01:00 -
[653]
Edited by: Sorxus on 23/02/2011 12:04:54
it is obvious that sisters of EVE member corporation The Sanctuary "goal" is to reopen EVE gate. Rogue drones is the "tool" and isogen-5 is the "fuel". With the help of the Jovians.
Why Jovians don't operate just by themselves, maybe The Sanctuary is like a puppet for them, which allow to freely operate in the empire.
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Roga Dracor
Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.02.23 20:32:00 -
[654]
It is quite likely the Jove don't have a viable enough population base to undertake large endeavors on their own. They have been in decline for centuries.
They use their technological superiority, released slowly to the Empires, as "gifts" through Concord, to cajole the Empires into an uneasy submission. They created the profusion of capsuleers to meet a need that only they seem to understand, though it looks like the Empires are aware of most of it, as well.
The Rogue Drones are a Jovian mistake, most likely created as a workforce for their deficit population. They first tried the Tube Child approach, but, the Jovian disease even outstripped those efforts. The attrition rate greater than the population growth. So they experimented with AI's. Rogue Drones present Jovian faces in the few instances they have been interacted with. They build colossal stations fashioned after Jovian architecture, and they desire to unfold the ultimate knowledge, the meaning of life. It is pretty clear to me their origins are Jovian.
The Sleepers seem to be a culmination of the Jovian Drone program. The Jove found ways to bind the AI's to their will. Who or what now controls wormhole space, I can't yet conjecture. But it was the playground of the Jove at one time, pretty certain of that, too.
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Roga Dracor
Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.02.23 20:54:00 -
[655]
One thing that has been bothering me, that I haven't seen addressed, is the chronicle Anoikis, to whom do you think Ior Labron refers? And what relation does it have to Anoikis?
Also in the chronicle, the "ambassador", whom to my mind has to be Jove, refers to Burreau's training. Do you all think he was warning about the Sister's or the Society? Infomorph Psychology is a Society course and I have been going on the assumption he refers to the Society. As it is pretty much assumed that you go to the SoCT for the best education. And it holds the warning note, as well.??
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Mielono
Caldari SWARTA
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Posted - 2011.02.24 01:43:00 -
[656]
Does a Clone have to have your DNA?
Maybe the Jove are testbedding the informorph idea on the empires population so they can switch over to bodies that are less gene engineered or differently engineered than their own so that they can get around their disease.
Originally by: Culmen
A cat is like that carebear who sticks around only while there's food, and at best kills a few rats.A dog F*cking enforces NBSI, and deep down is slightly disappointed you aren't tak |
Allant Doran
Amarr Locus Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.24 12:38:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Roga Dracor
The Rogue Drones are a Jovian mistake, most likely created as a workforce for their deficit population.
As far as i'm aware, it's already been confirmed for a while now that Gallente are the reason for rogue drones. A gallente scientist was tampering with an advanced drone AI and it became sentient. The reason they build Jovian-like structures is currently unknown but obviously has a link to them in some way.
That's all I'm aware of as factual so i'll pose this to the topic as a question. Could the Gallente have gotten that AI, the one that eventually lead TO the creation of Rogue Drones, from the Jovians? Or is it already known where they got it from? Perhaps the AI is significant for the Jove and they needed it deployed somehow. What better way to do so, to give their AI life. 'Arms and Legs', as it were, than to give it to the Gallente, a race known for their superior drone Technology.
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Veriasse Valence
Gallente Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.02.24 15:23:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Allant Doran As far as i'm aware, it's already been confirmed for a while now that Gallente are the reason for rogue drones. A gallente scientist was tampering with an advanced drone AI and it became sentient. The reason they build Jovian-like structures is currently unknown but obviously has a link to them in some way.
That's all I'm aware of as factual so i'll pose this to the topic as a question. Could the Gallente have gotten that AI, the one that eventually lead TO the creation of Rogue Drones, from the Jovians? Or is it already known where they got it from? Perhaps the AI is significant for the Jove and they needed it deployed somehow. What better way to do so, to give their AI life. 'Arms and Legs', as it were, than to give it to the Gallente, a race known for their superior drone Technology.
The Jovians and Sleepers both have extensive research into emergent AI. They both would know what would be the path that leads to sentience, and it wouldn't be difficult to modify the Gallente scientists work or simply point him in the right direction.
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Roga Dracor
Caldari Starfire Oasis Infinite Conflux
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Posted - 2011.02.25 01:00:00 -
[659]
I have a few question in return. If the Jove created an emergent lifeform, tied to their will, and integrated technology into the being that causes degradation of it's faculties the more self determined it becomes, does that make them any different than the Amarr?
The same question applies to the Gallente, of course. Philosophy seems to bear great meaning to the Jove. Do we believe of them that they WOULD enslave an entire race of artificial beings? If it came to light, in hindsight, that they did, how would they rectify it? Or would they?
Also, if the Jove are capable of this, what else are they capable of?
It seems pretty obvious, to me anyway, that the Jove or the Enhuadanni could easily "plant" the proper ideas into Gallente scientific thought. Or give them information to the location of a prototype AI. Sorry, all the evidence points to the Gallente being a secondary, at best, recipient of the Emergent technology.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.25 01:50:00 -
[660]
Originally by: Roga Dracor Sorry, all the evidence points to the Gallente being a secondary, at best, recipient of the Emergent technology.
Philosophical speculation =/= evidence. The only "evidence" for the Jovians being involved at all in emergent AI technology is the description of the Emergent Combat Intelligence sleeper salvage item:
"Although emergent systems are not fully-fledged Artificial Intelligences, they are often so advanced that they can border on sentience. The means by which they are created is also a common source for claims that they are in fact, full-blown AIs. Emergent system development is said to have been an early focal point in Jovian software design, where they hoped to create an atmosphere in which an advanced system could self-assemble its own consciousness and thus ôemergeö as a sentient being. What became of these projects remains unknown, although the Jovians appear to have abandoned these pursuits many millennia ago in favor of something more tangible and containable.
Designed from the ground up to perform complex, real-time combat calculations such as weapon tracking and heat optimization, this device shows the signatures of an emergent intelligence. Despite this, various hard limitations have been encoded into the device at the most fundamental level, greatly limiting its potential to evolve any further. Even in its current state though, it represents some of the most advanced combat electronics ever built. Although nothing about the software is in itself revolutionary, it is able to tackle highly complex tasks with a frightening level of speed and efficiency."
The possibility remains that you are correct, of course, but you shouldn't presume that you are merely because you like the sound of the theory.
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