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Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 01:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Grozen on 02/02/2010 01:25:08
Edited by: Grozen on 02/02/2010 01:24:51
Edited by: Grozen on 02/02/2010 01:23:34
Well i come here to ask for help and advice regarding one item i like to trade.That item is arbalest cruise launcher I.Before in the peacefull times people would sell and you would resell without troubles, but a hell of a guy poped up.His name is leocaldari.I don't know if his toon is ran by more then 1guy but whenever i'm on he always seems to be online which leads me to the assumption that more then 1guy might be runing the account.Anyway heres the story he has more then 2k units of the arb launcher at various price 2.6m 2.7 2.8 and so on.His strategy is posting buy orders of 20 and each buy order is 10 or 20k more then the last, the same goes for his sell orders and if someone puts arb launcher on the market he cuts weird sometimes by 1k sometimes by 20k.If you put a large order for launchers he will fill you out and undercut you.I've managed to sneak in few buy orders and fill them and sell them out, before he sees them but as soon as he pays attention he outbids me by 20k and i can't buy more.So can anyone give advice how to handle this.Thanks in advance.
knowledge is power |
Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.02.02 01:30:00 -
[2]
Sounds like you stepped into the wrong neighborhood, mate.
-L
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SetrakDark
Caldari
DarkCorp Holdings
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Posted - 2010.02.02 01:32:00 -
[3]
Move along.
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Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 01:33:00 -
[4]
Lol don't get me wrong i'm just ninjaing a bit of his stock and still making profit however i want a larger bite.
knowledge is power |
Lord Arbalest
Amarr
Zero Profits
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Posted - 2010.02.02 02:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lord Arbalest on 02/02/2010 02:03:12
Edited by: Lord Arbalest on 02/02/2010 02:00:42
 Originally by: SetrakDark
Move along.
Up against someone who knows how to destroy a competitor. Unless you have the financial backing and patience, your going to lose. Find a new market, or stand your ground and call his bluff after bluff until your both broke - he is simply cutting your profit margin in a hope to repel you from the market its a question of who is willing to go the furthest.
Your going to have to muscle him out or you've lost that market mate.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.02.02 02:48:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tiberizzle on 02/02/2010 02:49:23
He's been doing it for months, same strategy, not sure if it's the same guy.
I suggest beating each and every one of his buy and sell orders by .01 isk :P
Same size orders, same price increments, just .01 isk higher/lower.
Also, have deep pockets, because it could get ugly...
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Nin Kimrov
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Posted - 2010.02.02 04:16:00 -
[7]
He is also in arbalest siege launcher, last time I tried to play with him.
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Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 12:06:00 -
[8]
Haha i never knew this guy is so famous hmm thanks for all the advices people, i'm currently bying cheap arbies from the other mission hubs and as soon as i have atleast 500 i will try to mount small offensive.
knowledge is power |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2010.02.02 14:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Grozen
whenever i'm on he always seems to be online which leads me to the assumption that more then 1guy might be runing the account.
This makes completely no sense.
"He's on whenever I'm on, so he must be more than one person"? Are you more than one person too?
Free jumpclone service|874 stations - Truly Universal |
Sho Nin
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Posted - 2010.02.02 14:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Grozen
whenever i'm on he always seems to be online which leads me to the assumption that more then 1guy might be runing the account.
This makes completely no sense.
"He's on whenever I'm on, so he must be more than one person"? Are you more than one person too?
Your posting does not make sense... Anytime he is on - the other Character will be also. So that does not say, that Grozen is Online 24/7...
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2010.02.02 14:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sho Nin
Your posting does not make sense... Anytime he is on - the other Character will be also. So that does not say, that Grozen is Online 24/7...
I'll spell it out for you.
Grozen's argument has this structure:
Premise 1: A = B
Premise 2: [hidden]
-------------------
Conclusion: B is more than one person
The hidden premise therefore must be "A is more than one person". (A in this case is Grozen.)
To drive the point home (after your previous post I have a lack of faith in your logic skills), here's what Grozen said, in the form of the argument above:
Premise 1: "whenever i'm on he always seems to be online"
Premise 2: [hidden]
-------------------
Conclusion: "which leads me to the assumption that more then 1guy might be runing the account"
There it is, logic for dummies.
Free jumpclone service|874 stations - Truly Universal |
Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 14:39:00 -
[12]
I will make it more clear for you i've had some no life periods thats how i manage to keep track of him.
knowledge is power |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2010.02.02 14:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Grozen
I will make it more clear for you i've had some no life periods thats how i manage to keep track of him.
I see. And since only one person in the world can have a 'no life period' at a time, the other character must be run by multiple persons.
Free jumpclone service|874 stations - Truly Universal |
Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:00:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grozen on 02/02/2010 15:01:00
Edited by: Grozen on 02/02/2010 15:00:35
I'm a rare case of no lifing tho, when i no life i don't simply do 48hour run and then sleep.Most of the times it would be bout 60hours.I find it odd that the same guy has "the same" no life periods as me so i assume stuff.I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in my statement i just find it odd.
knowledge is power |
Amrumm
Rhetorical Devices
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:07:00 -
[15]
Just wreck the margins. Easy for me, as I generally have more order slots than I can be bothered to use.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 02/02/2010 15:22:09
Originally by: Grozen
I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in my statement i just find it odd.
I find it odd that you have to resort to baseless cheating accusations simply because someone is outsmarting you on the market.
(Actually, I don't find that odd, but I couldn't resist mirroring your statement for rhetoric effect.)
Free jumpclone service|874 stations - Truly Universal |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:25:00 -
[17]
Treat the orders like a low profit high volume market and you'll annoy him to no end. Maintain it long enough and he'll just leave.
Work on the idea of making just enough to break even. Most people last only a week or two, a few are stubborn and hot headed and will maintain it for months, but if you consistently maintain the idea of just breaking even you'll do a few things. One of which is crash and level the market long enough it permanently adjusts the market average to make it so the item is just no longer profitable period.
Mind you, I've done this for a few items because in EVE, I'm ruthless and care not for big profit. If someone told me to move along I'd do everything possible to prevent them from exploiting that revenue any longer. Just my evil advice, take it or leave it :)
Amarr for Life |
Grozen
Caldari
Centus Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.02 15:41:00 -
[18]
Thanks for all the constructive replies and ideas people the problem is now solved.
knowledge is power |
Doomed Predator
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.02 16:52:00 -
[19]
In addition to mission hubs,set up orders near 0.0 entry points(guristas and angels drop launchers afaik).
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.02.02 18:27:00 -
[20]
Arbalest Cruise Launcher you say?
I have raided stocks before as a counter to obvious manipulation. It is a hard, difficult process and I am still learning. Eventually I want to make it into an art form.
However, I have had my successes, 3 stocks in particular I damaged particularly hard. On my most succesful raid, I had someone hand over their remaining stock to me for free (I paid him of course) because he couldn't take it any more.
Arbalest Cruise Launcher you say....
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Cosmic Nebula
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Posted - 2010.02.02 19:02:00 -
[21]
Watch his buy and sell cycles.
About once a week, you will find that he drives down the price to 2.2m during his buy cycle. During the other 6 days, he drives the price back up while also clearing out anyone that followed his lower price cuts. The higher price is at least 2.9m-3.8m. Keep in mind that he probably has to buy up 1-2B worth of mods to do this.
I trade heavily in this item as well. Rather than compete with Leo, I have learned to follow his cycles and mimic his strategy. I sell stacks of 20 with similar pricing schemes. In theory, this scares off little competitors like the OP. |
Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.02.02 19:18:00 -
[22]
He sounds like a skilled opponent. However, the free markets deserve better. Let's take him down.
What is the minimum price that this product can be produced for?
First step is to make him commit more isk to his position - that makes the stakes higher and ups the eventual losses. Force him to buy-up stock, the more he buys up, the longer the pressure will last.
Second step is to lock-down alternative supply sources in the big trading hubs. If the stock is cheaper there, buy it up. If it's more expensive, get the price down to Jita levels so he can't offload there.
Graph history shows 1,000 sales a day at around 2.8 million a unit.
Finally, what is it that a monopolist thinks? What are his outcomes and how do we most effectively eliminate his gains. I would love to know what these communists are trying to achieve I just can't figure them out.
Can someone please evemail me the name of the character. All info confidential of course 
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nether void
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.02.02 19:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Edited by: Estel Arador on 02/02/2010 15:22:09
Originally by: Grozen
I'm not saying I'm 100% correct in my statement i just find it odd.
I find it odd that you have to resort to baseless cheating accusations simply because someone is outsmarting you on the market.
(Actually, I don't find that odd, but I couldn't resist mirroring your statement for rhetoric effect.)
I can't believe nobody has mentioned this:
What he's saying is if the other guy is always on when our OP is, there must be times when the other guy is on while our OP is offline. Therefore he is logged in possibly all the time? At any rate, more than our OP. Our OP is stating he himself is on a pretty rediculous amount of time, so this other guy is either on all the time or is more than one person (trying to figure out how someone could watch thte market 24/7).
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Cersei
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.02 19:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Sho Nin
Your posting does not make sense... Anytime he is on - the other Character will be also. So that does not say, that Grozen is Online 24/7...
I'll spell it out for you.
Grozen's argument has this structure:
Premise 1: A = B
Premise 2: [hidden]
-------------------
Conclusion: B is more than one person
The hidden premise therefore must be "A is more than one person". (A in this case is Grozen.)
To drive the point home (after your previous post I have a lack of faith in your logic skills), here's what Grozen said, in the form of the argument above:
Premise 1: "whenever i'm on he always seems to be online"
Premise 2: [hidden]
-------------------
Conclusion: "which leads me to the assumption that more then 1guy might be runing the account"
There it is, logic for dummies.
No, that was logic by dummies.
A <= B
A = 1 person
>>
B >= 1 person
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Cosmic Nebula
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Posted - 2010.02.02 19:33:00 -
[25]
I trade several hours a day and I compete with Leo and his alts on several high volume items. Leo trades ALOT but is not on all the time. You will have to find out his downtime on your own. 
PS.. I'm sure Leo is loving all the nice PR today... until his markets crash tonight |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.02.02 20:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Finally, what is it that a monopolist thinks? What are his outcomes and how do we most effectively eliminate his gains. I would love to know what these communists are trying to achieve I just can't figure them out.
You use the term "communist" pretty loosely. What, exactly, about this guy's behaviour makes him a communist rather than a monopolising capitalist?
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.02.02 20:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Finally, what is it that a monopolist thinks? What are his outcomes and how do we most effectively eliminate his gains. I would love to know what these communists are trying to achieve I just can't figure them out.
You use the term "communist" pretty loosely. What, exactly, about this guy's behaviour makes him a communist rather than a monopolising capitalist?
Nothing Raw It's more of a character trait of mine, I say it all the time. I don't honestly believe he is committed to dialectical materialism
I guess anyone who is not on the free market "blue team" is in some way a communist to me |
Hippopotamus Rex
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Posted - 2010.02.02 21:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
I guess anyone who is not on the free market "blue team" is in some way a communist to me
Monopolists are captains of the "free market 'blue team'".
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Tesal
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Posted - 2010.02.02 21:18:00 -
[29]
The best way is to destroy the market. Close the gap between buy and sell orders at a spot that is unprofitable and keep it there for months. This means waiting for the price to be low somehow and buying up a few, and then selling them well below the sell price, but high enough that he will not buy them from you. Its a sweet spot. You will make isk if he buys you out. Even if you make only 5% profit, keep doing it. Just a few at a time. Then people will start undercutting you eventually in the sell orders and crash the market. Then you buy low again, this time more units with your small profits. Rinse and repeat. If he maintains the price at a high level you can crush him this way with almost no isk.
never stop posting...with alts.
Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist |
Frakker one
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Posted - 2010.02.03 01:24:00 -
[30]
As for the A=B logic I think you are all wrong, I would conclude that he is:
A = unemployed or otherwise without any form of social life
or
B = he is in your timezone (in real life) so his reaction is in his daytime
or C = he cheats - has some form of auto market watch that flags any changes for his competition
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