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Native Client, why not?!

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Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.04 01:19:00 - [1] Originally by: Serpents smile ... EVE as code, is specifically and solely aimed at windows/ micro$oft software/ hardware. DX9-10 stuff and what not. Nothing from that code will work on our soft/hardware, without an emulator like we have now from Transgaming. Well, the hardware is the same hardware. A Mac is entirely PC based these days. So, no actual emulation is occurring. Quote: Now for a native client to work on our end without the emulation, CCP would need to write a new client from scratch. That's kind of true assuming CCP were going to start now with what they've already got. But if intending to support multiple OSes at the outset then there is ways to do it so that wouldn't happen. Disco Jack correctly points out that Blizzard have done it with WoW. And Blizzard have done this for many games in the past. It's not a big deal to write one code path that is deployable on multiple similar platforms if so desired. This removes the porting process that would otherwise occur with each patch. Even now though, Winelib gives CCP the option of continuing with what they've got and still being able to manage deploying on multiple OSes themselves. As it stands, CCP contracts a third party to do it for them. You can consider a Ciderised program as a port in the standard sense. How well the porting is done is dependent on far more than just what was used as the original source API. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.04 01:25:00 - [2] Originally by: Jainia Soltella WoW & Blizzard games in general aren't a good argument for how "easy" it would be to make a Mac specific client. Blizzard have always made their games cross-platform, ... I think that's good example. It can be done and it's not that hard to do if planned for. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.05 02:30:00 - [3] Edited by: Solbright on 05/02/2010 02:32:24 Originally by: Drake Draconis Mac's only share these things with PC's Hard Drive RAM CPU GPU That's it.... the line of equals stops there. No, it's all the same chips. The CPU was the very last item to be changed over. There is a difference in the boot ROM I believe. Apple uses an actual standard for booting, or something to that effect. Quote: CIDER translates PC Crap code into something understandable for the Operating System when it comes to functionality. There is possible Shader translations, I'm not up on how Shaders are past to the hardware. But aside from them there is no translating of the binary code occurring by any of these products being discussed. Including: Cedega, Cider, Wine, Winelib, or even in how Blizzard build their products. There is, however, a translation done to library API's or ABI's depending on which method is employed. And common libraries like SDL are a good example of how that translation takes place. Quote: Winblows uses DirectX.... a horrid engine that for the stroke of luck managed to maintain a monopoly on the industry compliments of Micro$oft big bucks. There's no luck to it. It's just a case of everyone wanting to run the same applications as each other. Plus the free market flooding effect that over-ran the rest of the computer industry back in the 1980's. Since then it was a forgone conclusion that nothing else would survive the PC. Quote: Yet Blizzard keeps it up with all of there products... I'm pretty damn sure Diablo 3 and StarCraft 2 will be Mac Native. No problem. As people have noted, the Mac market is growing in size. And the dual deployment is not that hard to do. Quote: So in conclusion... there is a great deal of emulating going on... the engine known as CIDER emulates an windows environment so EVE can exists... never-mind function. The definition of WINE is just that... emulation... a virtual desktop environment. Wine doesn't perform virtualisation. Wine doesn't emulate hardware. Programs launched by Wine can freely access host OS resources. Wine defines itself as a compatibility layer. Quote: Hence why people say Fusion would be better.... or bootcamp... they are more effective because they Emulate a better windows... or don't translate at all (Bootcamp). Eve on Wine is fast. There is some effort to get it setup right but it really works well. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.05 12:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Flammard Really, I wouldn't expect a native client. I can't see them wanting to rip up all the written and tested DirectX code and rewrite it in OpenGL. Personally I hate rewriting code. It's a massive step backwards. You spend so much time getting back to where you started. CCP are always ripping it up and rewriting it. Or just throwing great chucks away before it's even working right. That is one of Eve's philosophies - never exit beta testing mode. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.05 12:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Illwen There is not a large enough user base of EVE to justify spending time on a native OS X client, unlike WoW. Many Mac owners do not use their computer for gaming, but those who do end up playing WoW usually. Both those assertions are flawed. Blizzard could have said exactly the same thing. Why bother supporting maybe 5% of the current player base? But yet Blizzard still do it. There is positive marketing and of course a little more coverage but really it just doesn't cost them much at all. Quote: It simply isn't worth the time or money. It can bring in some revenue, sure, but their time would be better spent doing something which appeals to everyone, not just Mac users, such as lag improvements. That one is even more broken. As CCP have repeatedly said to many such requests for bug fixing - The people that work on each part of the development are generally not transfered to other areas whether there is need or not. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.05 23:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Verite Rendition Because 5% of 10mil is 500K; 5% of 300K is 15K. Blizzard has the numbers to make continued Mac development viable, Blizzard didn't know that before they started though did they? And, besides, 15K subs will easily cover what little extra cost there is in maintaining dual deployment. Even 1K subs would be enough IMHO. Quote: and they get to charge for the game itself on top of the monthly fee (EVE is basically free to "buy"). Not relevant. Quote: CCP uses a pure Microsoft development chain - DirectX, SQL Server, etc. They're not going to drop it any time soon. That just confirms the past route of planning chosen doesn't it. It doesn't make M$ only a better choice nor does it make it a final choice. Obviously, I don't have any say in such plans though. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.02.05 23:30:00 - [7] Okay, having now defended Disco Jack's question as being a valid one, I'd like to say that the Wine (Cider) path is not so bad. This will continue to expand to more games as Wine becomes more feature complete. I also suspect Wine's needs will drive some future OS development, particularly with OpenGL features. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2010.03.26 01:15:00 - [8] Regurgitated garbaged removed ... Originally by: Caldari Citizen 3456346 We, the Mac comunity should work harder on ourselfs in bughunting and supporting them to make things easier for them to give us a better product. We all know that the current client isnt very wonderful, but yes, where were u when Trinity started? They has done very much and things getting better. But all the time i spend on the testserver i seldom saw a mac user supporting them. Only a view posts were made in this forum and the most of them is flaming like that. So help CCP to become Eve a better world for macusers. And please stop asking questions u better should think about before open a theme like this. THX ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!

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