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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 13:42:19
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A simple image:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/104/reactions.gif (Linkage)
Or if you prefer, in XLS form:
http://eve-files.com/dl/215769 (Linkage)
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 03/02/2010 13:45:44
The pic is very nice, but imho the definitive uber tutorial would be some flow chart about setting up the 2 kinds of reactions and calculating costs given a rough fuel x month usage. Seeing how many react for a loss, I think I am not guessing wrong about this need.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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LordInvisible
Gallente
Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:04:00 -
[3]
wow, awesome image:D
n1 akita!
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Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:21:00 -
[4]
Linkage (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/104/reactions.gif)
WHAT THE TABLE IS GOOD FOR (clarified in more detail)
A. Pick an advanced material (for instance, ferrogel)
B. Write down the corresponding moon minerals (in case of ferrogel : dyspro, 2x prom, hafn, plat, chrom, cadm, vanad) and count the total number of mineral inputs (not 7 as it looks like, there are 7 types of minerals, but you will count 8 inputs, since you have 2x prom from two separate processed materials)
C. Sum up the values of all individual minerals (let's pick a semi-arbitrary 40k 60k ISK total as sum of one unit of each of those above, except promethium whose value we add TWICE since you see it twice in there) and divide it by the number under "1/? of a moon mineral" (here, 8) and you get the RAW MATERIAL cost of the advanced material (60k/8= 7500 ISK)
D. Divide the number you got at point B by 4 (one simple reaction feeds 2 complex reactors, med towers eat up half fuel of large towers), then add 1 (the large tower for the complex reaction), then multiply by large fuel hourly cost, then divide by the number listed as "portion size" (in case of ferrogel, 400).
B:8 -> 8/4=2,+1=3,*250k280k=840k,/400=2100 and you get the FUEL COST of one unit of the advanced material (2100 ISK in this case).
E. Add up C and D and you get the TOTAL MINIMUM COST of one unit (7500+2100= 9600 ISK)
Never, ever sell any of your stuff anywhere close to the value you get at point E.
F. DECIDE how much profit you expect to get from YOUR ENTIRE REACTION CHAIN.
In this particular case, you had to set up 4 simple reactions feeding 2 identical complex reactions (you ALWAYS feed two twin complex reactions in case you do your own simple reactions, and it's usually a good idea to always run your simple reactions because processed material market volumes are never steady).
So that's a minimum of 4 large POSes (or 4 mediums and 2 large), so let's say you want to get around 1 bil ISK/week out of this entire ordeal.
G. Your final output per month is always 2(reactors)*24(hours)*7(days)*PORTIONSIZE.
In the case of a full ferrogel chain, that's 2*24*7*400=134400 units/week.
H. Multiply the number of units/week from G (134.4k) by cost per unit from E (9.6k ISK) to get your weekly costs (direct costs + opportunity costs), then add our desired weekly profit from point F (1 bil) to get the raw revenue we are targeting.
In our case here, we get a grand total of 2,290,240,000 ISK.
I. Figure out your broker fees and sales taxes (say around 0.8% and 0.6%, respectively, from L4 skills and no standings, so 1.4% total).
Divide that figure you got at point H by 100%-totaltax[%] to get your total weekly sales level.
Divide that by figure at point G (your units/week production) to get unit sales price.
In our case, 2,290,240,000 ISK / 0.986 = (approx.) 2,322,758,620 ISK total targeted sales volume.
2,322,758,620 ISK / 134400 units = (aprox) 17282.43 ISK/unit sales price.
THIS IS THE PRICE YOU SHOULD BE SELLING YOUR FINISHED PRODUCT FOR IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THAT PARTICULAR PROFIT LEVEL FROM ALL YOUR TROUBLE SETTING UP ALL THE REACTIONS.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:35:00 -
[5]
Now, this is an Akita T's grade guide, worth being in your sig links.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:05:39
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So, RECAP :
A. Pick an advanced material
B. Write down the corresponding moon minerals and count the total number of mineral inputs
C. Sum up the values of all individual minerals and divide it by the number under "1/? of a moon mineral" and you get the RAW MATERIAL cost of the advanced material
D. Divide the number you got at point B by 4, then add 1, then multiply by large fuel hourly cost, then divide by the number listed as "portion size" and you get the FUEL COST of one unit of the advanced material
E. Add up C and D and you get the TOTAL MINIMUM COST of one unit
F. DECIDE how much profit you expect to get from YOUR ENTIRE REACTION CHAIN. You need 2 large POS + 2/3/4 med POSes (or 1/2 of that in large POSes).
G. Your final output per month is always 2(reactors)*24(hours)*7(days)*PORTIONSIZE
H. Multiply the number of units/week from G by cost per unit from E to get your weekly costs, then add our desired weekly profit from point F to get the raw revenue we are targeting.
I. Figure out your broker fees and sales taxes. Divide that figure you got at point H by 100%-totaltax[%] to get your total weekly sales level. Divide that by figure at point G (your units/week production) to get unit sales price.
THIS IS THE PRICE YOU SHOULD BE SELLING YOUR FINISHED PRODUCT FOR
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More examples, you say ?
A. Fullerides
B. 4 -> tech, plat, silicates, hydrocarbs
C. Around 25k ISK / 60 = 417 ISK raw material cost
D. B=4, /4=1, +1=2, *280k=560k, /3000= 187 ISK fuel costs
E. 417+187 = 604 ISK minimal fulleride unit cost at zero profit
F. 3 large POSes could do it all so I guess 700 mil/week should be reasonably good (1bil/mo/tower)
G. 2*24*7*3000= 1,008,000 units/week
H. 1008000*604+700000000= 1,308,832,000 ISK weekly income target
I. Say you sell'em all wholesale with a direct personal contract so no fees for you -> 1308832000/1008000 = 1298.44 ISK / unit
Even more examples ?
A. Nanotransistors
B. 6 -> neod, tech, merc, plat, evap, atmgas
C. around 40k / 30 = 1333 ISK raw material cost
D. B=6, /4=1.5, +1=2.5, *280k=700k, /1500= 467 ISK fuel cost
E. 1333+467 = 1800 ISK minimal nanotransistors cost at zero profit
F. 4 large POSes, say 1 bil/week grand total profit
G. 2*24*7*1500= 504,000 units/week
H. 504000*1800+1000000000 = 1,907,200,000 ISK weekly income target
I. Assume 1% total tax rate, 1907200000/0.99=1,926,464,646, /504000 = 3822.35 ISK / unit [/b] [/b]
There you go.
Of course, anything in between minimal cost and desired sales price corresponds to less than desired profit, but still some.
Just remember, try to always stay as far away from the "minimal price" as possible, and avoid going below it like the plague.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vins Chicago
Gallente
Regent Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:14:00 -
[7]
Quality. Nothing but quality. Nicely done, Akita!
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 03/02/2010 16:20:05
Thread should be renamed with "moon" before reactions
THERE IS A WORLD BEYOND TECH 2 AKITA. 
ps: as usual, good explanations and numbers to support...
and on a somewhat relevant note, does your boss know you do this instead of CADD (or whatever you are supposed to be doing at work  )
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:32:02
Added "moon" in thread title.
As for the AutoCAD thing... I don't really have a boss 
I'm a sort of "freelance consultant" working almost exclusively from home for whomever needs me on some projects at the moment.
If anybody kicks me in the behind it's myself for getting too close to deadlines and having to "do overtime" to make it or face penalties of a financial nature.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:59:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:32:02
Added "moon" in thread title.
As for the AutoCAD thing... I don't really have a boss
I'm a sort of "freelance consultant" working almost exclusively from home for whomever needs me on some projects at the moment.
If anybody kicks me in the behind it's myself for getting too close to deadlines and having to "do overtime" to make it or face penalties of a financial nature.
ever used Revit?...not sure what you do with AutoCAD exactly but Revit = the future
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 17:49:00 -
[11]
!!! NEW !!!
For the lazy person that just wants it all calculated for him directly, a miracle cure XLS:
Linkage (http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1002/EVE_reactions_v2.zip)
A sample snapshot from this XLS...
Linkage (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2544/akitatreactions.gif)
Yes, it does tell you exactly how much profit each reaction makes, and for how much you should sell your stuff to get a certain profit.
REACTION CALCULATIONS EASY FOR EVERYBODY !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 18:32:00 -
[12]
Corrected minor omission in v2, v3 up and accurate.
Heh.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.03 19:01:00 -
[13]
I was going to be mad at you for crashing the market for my goods, but it seems to me that this spreadsheet isn't very useful. If you're making nanotransistors, for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid? Last I checked, you saved about 150k/hour by making it yourself vs buying it from Jita, which is really a waste of 1/2 a POS.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 19:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 19:49:17
Originally by: QuelAlt
for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid?
Stability in supply.
The processed material market is usually quite thin, randomly either trailing or leading the complex reaction market with regards to moon mineral prices.
Volumes are occasionally too volatile to continuously rely on it to supply you with the appropriate quantities at the right times for a good enough price.
Of course, if you wish to optimize all your reactions to the max, you could constantly shunt simple reaction POSes on or off depending on however the simple reaction market blows, or you could keep large stockpiles bought when they were cheap or whatnot.
It's simply more convenient (and far less stressful) to run the entire chain locally with minimal imports and exports on top of the absolutely necessary.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.03 20:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 19:49:17
Originally by: QuelAlt
for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid?
Stability in supply.
The processed material market is usually quite thin, randomly either trailing or leading the complex reaction market with regards to moon mineral prices.
Volumes are occasionally too volatile to continuously rely on it to supply you with the appropriate quantities at the right times for a good enough price.
Of course, if you wish to optimize all your reactions to the max, you could constantly shunt simple reaction POSes on or off depending on however the simple reaction market blows, or you could keep large stockpiles bought when they were cheap or whatnot.
It's simply more convenient (and far less stressful) to run the entire chain locally with minimal imports and exports on top of the absolutely necessary.
I suppose that makes sense. I operate in w-space, so I have to ship everything in anyway, which means that I have more flexibility (and less stability).
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Joardth
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Posted - 2010.02.03 20:17:00 -
[16]
There goes the Nanotransistors market... I'm sure T2 builders are happy when the prices of crash. I guess this *is* one way to try and stimulate the Technetium market - of course it comes a bit late, Nanotransistor prices have already been crashing hard (partially due to Tech price going down, partially due to oversupply), so unless there is a sudden spike in T2 production volumes, I doubt this helps much.
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Charlie Crocodile
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.03 21:14:00 -
[17]
You might want to delete all the document metadata!
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Onyx Mdooku
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Posted - 2010.02.04 09:02:00 -
[18]
I got part way through doing my own version of this spreadsheet before going 'meh'. So thankyou Akita for making the effort that I couldn't be arsed to make myself :)
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Kalisis
Caldari
United Industries LTD.
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Posted - 2010.02.04 16:44:00 -
[19]
Nice Sheet. I'd just got done doing a sheet of my own for this. One error I think you have is the unit fuel cost. On your sheet its twice what it should be. Other than that yours is a bit cleaner than mine. Im gonna have to go put colors in mine now. 
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 18:26:56
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Some people prefer to run an EXTREMELY tight to manage combination of Caldari large towers with one simple and one complex reaction running in tandem, but that only works for complex reactions that only need two processed materials and has absolutely no room for any coupling arrays at all, so production will occasionally shut down while you empty/refill silos.
You save 120-140k ISK/hour overall for doing that, but you need to keep checking your tower VERY often and you're also giving up on at least one cycle of production on every refill/unload cycle. Bottom line, not really worth it.
Have to disagree there.
Sure you have a more limited selection of reactions you can run but you only have two towers to manage rather than three so you have 33% less work. Less fuel to haul around, less towers to defend if something happens and so on. You also have less capital outlay for it and you can get up and running faster.
So if it is worth it or not depends on how you value time and how much capital you have available to put it up.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/02/2010 17:20:59
Well, yeah, if you can be bothered to come online and around quite frequently to keep rotating all needed materials into their proper silos and you're careful to time everything out of the tower "tick", then sure, why not, it's a bit over 20 mil/week extra saved compared to the others for each tower, and a tad bit less fuel to haul. But then again, you could as well just operate twice as many towers instead of visiting the ones you have twice as often, and be a bit more careless with your offlining/onlining timing.
Yeah, I guess it's a matter of preference, but I sure as heck know what I'd always pick
Originally by: Kalisis
One error I think you have is the unit fuel cost. On your sheet its twice what it should be.
Duuh, you're right. I cut some corners and simplified the fuel cost formula but forgot to divide by the two that corresponds to the "twin" production lines.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:42:00 -
[22]
Updated, v4:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1002/EVE_reactions_v4.zip Linkage
New snapshot (also rounded off a few things):
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1576/akitareactionsv4.gif (Linkage)
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.05 05:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Some people prefer to run an EXTREMELY tight to manage combination of Caldari large towers with one simple and one complex reaction running in tandem, but that only works for complex reactions that only need two processed materials and has absolutely no room for any coupling arrays at all, so production will occasionally shut down while you empty/refill silos.
You save 120-140k ISK/hour overall for doing that, but you need to keep checking your tower VERY often and you're also giving up on at least one cycle of production on every refill/unload cycle.
Bottom line, not really worth it IMO, but for you it might be different.
Didn't notice this before (thanks for mentioning it, guy above me), but fwiw you can fit one simple reactor, one complex reactor, and six silos, which enables complex reactions with 3 intermediates (yes your simple reactor fills its output silo twice as fast as it gets emptied, but that silo fills much more slowly than your complex product silo anyway, so it's not a terrible chore to empty it out).
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:42:00 -
[24]
Hmm, true, you could run a complex-3 reaction that way with 2 large + 1 med tower instead of 3 large + 1 med towers... just barely.
Tell me how many people you can find that will want to keep running such setups for a longer period of time though without completely burning out.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.05 16:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2010 10:53:01
Hmm, true, you could run a complex-3 reaction that way with 2 large + 1 med tower instead of 3 large + 1 med towers... just barely.
Tell me how many people you can find that will want to keep running such setups for a longer period of time though without completely burning out.
P.S. Reformulated OP to reflect these comments.
Oh, I doubt you'll find any. I certainly don't plan on it.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:18:00 -
[26]
Thread is obvious attempt to push Technetium demand up after bottleneck assumption turned out to be completely ******ed. Jump into the reaction markets now to get burned like the lemmings that followed Akita into Technetium!1 
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Thread is obvious attempt to push Technetium demand up
Is that supposed to be sarcastic ? Because I can't really tell...
Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers (which have nothing to do with Technetium) have higher profits according to the sheet...
Fullerides are only in 3rd place profit-wise (Technetium used there), then come Phenolic Composites and Fermionic Condensates (no Technetium) and Nanotransistors (tech again) are only in the 6th place (our of 11 total reactions).
So, ehm, take it as you will.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.02.06 00:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tiberizzle on 06/02/2010 00:05:20
Yes, its saracsm. I'm sure you fudged through a few reaction profit spreadsheets a couple months late with enough errors in tower configurations, fuel costs to indicate that you may have never actually run a reaction out of the goodness of your heart... while sitting on massive stockpiles dwindling in value because your bottleneck has been spotted in the reaction market. What ulterior motive could you possibly have?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.06 01:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/02/2010 01:45:46
Wow, is that double sarcasm ? Or is that a statement of previous sarcasm followed by actual simple sarcasm ?
Care to point out any errors in the calculations or the so-called holes in the explanations provided in the thread or anything else that would be relevant ?
It's not like any fields in the XLS would be locked/hidden or anything, nor are the calculations all that complicated either.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.02.06 13:25:00 -
[30]
Is alchemy worth bothering with atm? 
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34.4:1 mineral compression |
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