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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 13:42:19
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A simple image:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/104/reactions.gif (Linkage)
Or if you prefer, in XLS form:
http://eve-files.com/dl/215769 (Linkage)
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.03 13:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 03/02/2010 13:45:44
The pic is very nice, but imho the definitive uber tutorial would be some flow chart about setting up the 2 kinds of reactions and calculating costs given a rough fuel x month usage. Seeing how many react for a loss, I think I am not guessing wrong about this need.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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LordInvisible
Gallente
Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:04:00 -
[3]
wow, awesome image:D
n1 akita!
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Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:21:00 -
[4]
Linkage (http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/104/reactions.gif)
WHAT THE TABLE IS GOOD FOR (clarified in more detail)
A. Pick an advanced material (for instance, ferrogel)
B. Write down the corresponding moon minerals (in case of ferrogel : dyspro, 2x prom, hafn, plat, chrom, cadm, vanad) and count the total number of mineral inputs (not 7 as it looks like, there are 7 types of minerals, but you will count 8 inputs, since you have 2x prom from two separate processed materials)
C. Sum up the values of all individual minerals (let's pick a semi-arbitrary 40k 60k ISK total as sum of one unit of each of those above, except promethium whose value we add TWICE since you see it twice in there) and divide it by the number under "1/? of a moon mineral" (here, 8) and you get the RAW MATERIAL cost of the advanced material (60k/8= 7500 ISK)
D. Divide the number you got at point B by 4 (one simple reaction feeds 2 complex reactors, med towers eat up half fuel of large towers), then add 1 (the large tower for the complex reaction), then multiply by large fuel hourly cost, then divide by the number listed as "portion size" (in case of ferrogel, 400).
B:8 -> 8/4=2,+1=3,*250k280k=840k,/400=2100 and you get the FUEL COST of one unit of the advanced material (2100 ISK in this case).
E. Add up C and D and you get the TOTAL MINIMUM COST of one unit (7500+2100= 9600 ISK)
Never, ever sell any of your stuff anywhere close to the value you get at point E.
F. DECIDE how much profit you expect to get from YOUR ENTIRE REACTION CHAIN.
In this particular case, you had to set up 4 simple reactions feeding 2 identical complex reactions (you ALWAYS feed two twin complex reactions in case you do your own simple reactions, and it's usually a good idea to always run your simple reactions because processed material market volumes are never steady).
So that's a minimum of 4 large POSes (or 4 mediums and 2 large), so let's say you want to get around 1 bil ISK/week out of this entire ordeal.
G. Your final output per month is always 2(reactors)*24(hours)*7(days)*PORTIONSIZE.
In the case of a full ferrogel chain, that's 2*24*7*400=134400 units/week.
H. Multiply the number of units/week from G (134.4k) by cost per unit from E (9.6k ISK) to get your weekly costs (direct costs + opportunity costs), then add our desired weekly profit from point F (1 bil) to get the raw revenue we are targeting.
In our case here, we get a grand total of 2,290,240,000 ISK.
I. Figure out your broker fees and sales taxes (say around 0.8% and 0.6%, respectively, from L4 skills and no standings, so 1.4% total).
Divide that figure you got at point H by 100%-totaltax[%] to get your total weekly sales level.
Divide that by figure at point G (your units/week production) to get unit sales price.
In our case, 2,290,240,000 ISK / 0.986 = (approx.) 2,322,758,620 ISK total targeted sales volume.
2,322,758,620 ISK / 134400 units = (aprox) 17282.43 ISK/unit sales price.
THIS IS THE PRICE YOU SHOULD BE SELLING YOUR FINISHED PRODUCT FOR IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THAT PARTICULAR PROFIT LEVEL FROM ALL YOUR TROUBLE SETTING UP ALL THE REACTIONS.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:35:00 -
[5]
Now, this is an Akita T's grade guide, worth being in your sig links.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:05:39
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So, RECAP :
A. Pick an advanced material
B. Write down the corresponding moon minerals and count the total number of mineral inputs
C. Sum up the values of all individual minerals and divide it by the number under "1/? of a moon mineral" and you get the RAW MATERIAL cost of the advanced material
D. Divide the number you got at point B by 4, then add 1, then multiply by large fuel hourly cost, then divide by the number listed as "portion size" and you get the FUEL COST of one unit of the advanced material
E. Add up C and D and you get the TOTAL MINIMUM COST of one unit
F. DECIDE how much profit you expect to get from YOUR ENTIRE REACTION CHAIN. You need 2 large POS + 2/3/4 med POSes (or 1/2 of that in large POSes).
G. Your final output per month is always 2(reactors)*24(hours)*7(days)*PORTIONSIZE
H. Multiply the number of units/week from G by cost per unit from E to get your weekly costs, then add our desired weekly profit from point F to get the raw revenue we are targeting.
I. Figure out your broker fees and sales taxes. Divide that figure you got at point H by 100%-totaltax[%] to get your total weekly sales level. Divide that by figure at point G (your units/week production) to get unit sales price.
THIS IS THE PRICE YOU SHOULD BE SELLING YOUR FINISHED PRODUCT FOR
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More examples, you say ?
A. Fullerides
B. 4 -> tech, plat, silicates, hydrocarbs
C. Around 25k ISK / 60 = 417 ISK raw material cost
D. B=4, /4=1, +1=2, *280k=560k, /3000= 187 ISK fuel costs
E. 417+187 = 604 ISK minimal fulleride unit cost at zero profit
F. 3 large POSes could do it all so I guess 700 mil/week should be reasonably good (1bil/mo/tower)
G. 2*24*7*3000= 1,008,000 units/week
H. 1008000*604+700000000= 1,308,832,000 ISK weekly income target
I. Say you sell'em all wholesale with a direct personal contract so no fees for you -> 1308832000/1008000 = 1298.44 ISK / unit
Even more examples ?
A. Nanotransistors
B. 6 -> neod, tech, merc, plat, evap, atmgas
C. around 40k / 30 = 1333 ISK raw material cost
D. B=6, /4=1.5, +1=2.5, *280k=700k, /1500= 467 ISK fuel cost
E. 1333+467 = 1800 ISK minimal nanotransistors cost at zero profit
F. 4 large POSes, say 1 bil/week grand total profit
G. 2*24*7*1500= 504,000 units/week
H. 504000*1800+1000000000 = 1,907,200,000 ISK weekly income target
I. Assume 1% total tax rate, 1907200000/0.99=1,926,464,646, /504000 = 3822.35 ISK / unit [/b] [/b]
There you go.
Of course, anything in between minimal cost and desired sales price corresponds to less than desired profit, but still some.
Just remember, try to always stay as far away from the "minimal price" as possible, and avoid going below it like the plague.
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Vins Chicago
Gallente
Regent Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:14:00 -
[7]
Quality. Nothing but quality. Nicely done, Akita!
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 03/02/2010 16:20:05
Thread should be renamed with "moon" before reactions
THERE IS A WORLD BEYOND TECH 2 AKITA. 
ps: as usual, good explanations and numbers to support...
and on a somewhat relevant note, does your boss know you do this instead of CADD (or whatever you are supposed to be doing at work  )
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:26:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:32:02
Added "moon" in thread title.
As for the AutoCAD thing... I don't really have a boss 
I'm a sort of "freelance consultant" working almost exclusively from home for whomever needs me on some projects at the moment.
If anybody kicks me in the behind it's myself for getting too close to deadlines and having to "do overtime" to make it or face penalties of a financial nature.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.03 16:59:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 16:32:02
Added "moon" in thread title.
As for the AutoCAD thing... I don't really have a boss
I'm a sort of "freelance consultant" working almost exclusively from home for whomever needs me on some projects at the moment.
If anybody kicks me in the behind it's myself for getting too close to deadlines and having to "do overtime" to make it or face penalties of a financial nature.
ever used Revit?...not sure what you do with AutoCAD exactly but Revit = the future
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 17:49:00 -
[11]
!!! NEW !!!
For the lazy person that just wants it all calculated for him directly, a miracle cure XLS:
Linkage (http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1002/EVE_reactions_v2.zip)
A sample snapshot from this XLS...
Linkage (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2544/akitatreactions.gif)
Yes, it does tell you exactly how much profit each reaction makes, and for how much you should sell your stuff to get a certain profit.
REACTION CALCULATIONS EASY FOR EVERYBODY !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 18:32:00 -
[12]
Corrected minor omission in v2, v3 up and accurate.
Heh.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.03 19:01:00 -
[13]
I was going to be mad at you for crashing the market for my goods, but it seems to me that this spreadsheet isn't very useful. If you're making nanotransistors, for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid? Last I checked, you saved about 150k/hour by making it yourself vs buying it from Jita, which is really a waste of 1/2 a POS.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.03 19:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 19:49:17
Originally by: QuelAlt
for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid?
Stability in supply.
The processed material market is usually quite thin, randomly either trailing or leading the complex reaction market with regards to moon mineral prices.
Volumes are occasionally too volatile to continuously rely on it to supply you with the appropriate quantities at the right times for a good enough price.
Of course, if you wish to optimize all your reactions to the max, you could constantly shunt simple reaction POSes on or off depending on however the simple reaction market blows, or you could keep large stockpiles bought when they were cheap or whatnot.
It's simply more convenient (and far less stressful) to run the entire chain locally with minimal imports and exports on top of the absolutely necessary.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.03 20:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 19:49:17
Originally by: QuelAlt
for example, why would you react your own sulfuric acid?
Stability in supply.
The processed material market is usually quite thin, randomly either trailing or leading the complex reaction market with regards to moon mineral prices.
Volumes are occasionally too volatile to continuously rely on it to supply you with the appropriate quantities at the right times for a good enough price.
Of course, if you wish to optimize all your reactions to the max, you could constantly shunt simple reaction POSes on or off depending on however the simple reaction market blows, or you could keep large stockpiles bought when they were cheap or whatnot.
It's simply more convenient (and far less stressful) to run the entire chain locally with minimal imports and exports on top of the absolutely necessary.
I suppose that makes sense. I operate in w-space, so I have to ship everything in anyway, which means that I have more flexibility (and less stability).
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Joardth
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Posted - 2010.02.03 20:17:00 -
[16]
There goes the Nanotransistors market... I'm sure T2 builders are happy when the prices of crash. I guess this *is* one way to try and stimulate the Technetium market - of course it comes a bit late, Nanotransistor prices have already been crashing hard (partially due to Tech price going down, partially due to oversupply), so unless there is a sudden spike in T2 production volumes, I doubt this helps much.
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Charlie Crocodile
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.03 21:14:00 -
[17]
You might want to delete all the document metadata!
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Onyx Mdooku
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Posted - 2010.02.04 09:02:00 -
[18]
I got part way through doing my own version of this spreadsheet before going 'meh'. So thankyou Akita for making the effort that I couldn't be arsed to make myself :)
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Kalisis
Caldari
United Industries LTD.
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Posted - 2010.02.04 16:44:00 -
[19]
Nice Sheet. I'd just got done doing a sheet of my own for this. One error I think you have is the unit fuel cost. On your sheet its twice what it should be. Other than that yours is a bit cleaner than mine. Im gonna have to go put colors in mine now. 
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/02/2010 18:26:56
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Some people prefer to run an EXTREMELY tight to manage combination of Caldari large towers with one simple and one complex reaction running in tandem, but that only works for complex reactions that only need two processed materials and has absolutely no room for any coupling arrays at all, so production will occasionally shut down while you empty/refill silos.
You save 120-140k ISK/hour overall for doing that, but you need to keep checking your tower VERY often and you're also giving up on at least one cycle of production on every refill/unload cycle. Bottom line, not really worth it.
Have to disagree there.
Sure you have a more limited selection of reactions you can run but you only have two towers to manage rather than three so you have 33% less work. Less fuel to haul around, less towers to defend if something happens and so on. You also have less capital outlay for it and you can get up and running faster.
So if it is worth it or not depends on how you value time and how much capital you have available to put it up.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/02/2010 17:20:59
Well, yeah, if you can be bothered to come online and around quite frequently to keep rotating all needed materials into their proper silos and you're careful to time everything out of the tower "tick", then sure, why not, it's a bit over 20 mil/week extra saved compared to the others for each tower, and a tad bit less fuel to haul. But then again, you could as well just operate twice as many towers instead of visiting the ones you have twice as often, and be a bit more careless with your offlining/onlining timing.
Yeah, I guess it's a matter of preference, but I sure as heck know what I'd always pick
Originally by: Kalisis
One error I think you have is the unit fuel cost. On your sheet its twice what it should be.
Duuh, you're right. I cut some corners and simplified the fuel cost formula but forgot to divide by the two that corresponds to the "twin" production lines.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.04 17:42:00 -
[22]
Updated, v4:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1002/EVE_reactions_v4.zip Linkage
New snapshot (also rounded off a few things):
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1576/akitareactionsv4.gif (Linkage)
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.05 05:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T
Some people prefer to run an EXTREMELY tight to manage combination of Caldari large towers with one simple and one complex reaction running in tandem, but that only works for complex reactions that only need two processed materials and has absolutely no room for any coupling arrays at all, so production will occasionally shut down while you empty/refill silos.
You save 120-140k ISK/hour overall for doing that, but you need to keep checking your tower VERY often and you're also giving up on at least one cycle of production on every refill/unload cycle.
Bottom line, not really worth it IMO, but for you it might be different.
Didn't notice this before (thanks for mentioning it, guy above me), but fwiw you can fit one simple reactor, one complex reactor, and six silos, which enables complex reactions with 3 intermediates (yes your simple reactor fills its output silo twice as fast as it gets emptied, but that silo fills much more slowly than your complex product silo anyway, so it's not a terrible chore to empty it out).
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.05 10:42:00 -
[24]
Hmm, true, you could run a complex-3 reaction that way with 2 large + 1 med tower instead of 3 large + 1 med towers... just barely.
Tell me how many people you can find that will want to keep running such setups for a longer period of time though without completely burning out.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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QuelAlt
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Posted - 2010.02.05 16:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2010 10:53:01
Hmm, true, you could run a complex-3 reaction that way with 2 large + 1 med tower instead of 3 large + 1 med towers... just barely.
Tell me how many people you can find that will want to keep running such setups for a longer period of time though without completely burning out.
P.S. Reformulated OP to reflect these comments.
Oh, I doubt you'll find any. I certainly don't plan on it.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:18:00 -
[26]
Thread is obvious attempt to push Technetium demand up after bottleneck assumption turned out to be completely ******ed. Jump into the reaction markets now to get burned like the lemmings that followed Akita into Technetium!1 
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Thread is obvious attempt to push Technetium demand up
Is that supposed to be sarcastic ? Because I can't really tell...
Ferrogel and Hypersynaptic Fibers (which have nothing to do with Technetium) have higher profits according to the sheet...
Fullerides are only in 3rd place profit-wise (Technetium used there), then come Phenolic Composites and Fermionic Condensates (no Technetium) and Nanotransistors (tech again) are only in the 6th place (our of 11 total reactions).
So, ehm, take it as you will.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.02.06 00:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Tiberizzle on 06/02/2010 00:05:20
Yes, its saracsm. I'm sure you fudged through a few reaction profit spreadsheets a couple months late with enough errors in tower configurations, fuel costs to indicate that you may have never actually run a reaction out of the goodness of your heart... while sitting on massive stockpiles dwindling in value because your bottleneck has been spotted in the reaction market. What ulterior motive could you possibly have?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.06 01:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/02/2010 01:45:46
Wow, is that double sarcasm ? Or is that a statement of previous sarcasm followed by actual simple sarcasm ?
Care to point out any errors in the calculations or the so-called holes in the explanations provided in the thread or anything else that would be relevant ?
It's not like any fields in the XLS would be locked/hidden or anything, nor are the calculations all that complicated either.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.02.06 13:25:00 -
[30]
Is alchemy worth bothering with atm? 
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34.4:1 mineral compression |
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Belloche
Caldari
Heaven's Avatars
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.02.06 14:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
Edited by: Tiberizzle on 06/02/2010 00:15:03
Yes, its saracsm. I'm sure you fudged through a few reaction profit numbers a couple months late with enough errors in tower configurations, fuel costs to indicate that you may have never actually run a reaction out of the goodness of your heart... while sitting on massive stockpiles dwindling in value because your bottleneck has been spotted in the reaction market. What ulterior motive could you possibly have?
I believe Akita needed a cheaper supply of sulfuric acid and nanotransistors and was touting the sulfuric reaction along with the nano transistor reaction about 4-5 times a week in 3 or 4 different threads not too long ago. Due to that, a lot of people have moved into doing those simple and complex reactions and the profits in them have dropped considerably. For example, sulfuric acid dropped in price greater then 50%. It could be for a cheaper supply or for market pvp Who knows? Akita isn't saying. Either way, we all have to adapt or move on to doing something else. My own spreadsheet had similar numbers to Akita's in the profits columns although mine did not look as presentable. Good Job on the spreadsheet Akita!
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.06 18:01:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/02/2010 18:04:09
Yeah, I was getting tired of updating the numbers and doing the calculations for each individual case.
This way, everybody can just enter the current prices and see everything as it is at the moment for themselves.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Is alchemy worth bothering with atm?
Hmm, I should probably try to look at alchemy reactions as well.
I have a feeling though the best alchemy reaction would be worse off than the worst of normal reaction (carbides, ATM).
If it's not the case and alchemy yields at least as much as the carbides, I'll include them in the sheet too... if not, what's the point.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2010.02.06 18:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Is alchemy worth bothering with atm?
Doubt it.
At a glance the prometium alchemy reaction (chrom+cad) will give about 200m/month and if you have access to either cad or chrom you are probably better off making something else.
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Retail Therapy
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Posted - 2010.03.19 11:40:00 -
[34]
Wondering if you can clarify one point for me please. If I'm doing my own simple reactions, won't this yield sufficient output for 2 complex reactions? If so, am I looking at 2 Large towers for those 2 complex reactions to maximize the output of the simple reactions that I'm considering or can I double up the complex on a single POS? Perhaps this was the Simple/Complex chain you referenced with the uber tight Caldari Build. Just how borked would a Minmatar build be, with the consideration that the Ice would be high-end and local, eliminating transport and markup in favor of labor?!? Anyways, if I have to have 2 Larges to maximize efficiency, it won't be any real loss afaik, if it means that the other reactions don't pile up and I'm doubling the potential profit (less overhead) by doing so. |
Emporer Norton
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Posted - 2010.03.19 13:55:00 -
[35]
Caldari large is only one that can fit both a simple and complex reaction with a silo after the simple so you dont waste half with a 2 input reaction will have 500 cpu left for either another silo or a lab
Originally by: Retail Therapy
Wondering if you can clarify one point for me please. If I'm doing my own simple reactions, won't this yield sufficient output for 2 complex reactions? If so, am I looking at 2 Large towers for those 2 complex reactions to maximize the output of the simple reactions that I'm considering or can I double up the complex on a single POS? Perhaps this was the Simple/Complex chain you referenced with the uber tight Caldari Build. Just how borked would a Minmatar build be, with the consideration that the Ice would be high-end and local, eliminating transport and markup in favor of labor?!? Anyways, if I have to have 2 Larges to maximize efficiency, it won't be any real loss afaik, if it means that the other reactions don't pile up and I'm doubling the potential profit (less overhead) by doing so.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.03.19 14:56:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/03/2010 15:03:00
Originally by: Retail Therapy
Wondering if you can clarify one point for me please.[...]
Yes, all simple reactions yield enough output for 2 complex reactions.
All the setups need a grand total of X simple reaction ("medium") reactors (2, 3 or 4 depending on advanced reaction type) and 2 complex reaction reactors if you want to do it all start-to-finish.
A "medium" reactor can only fit on a medium tower (3000 tf total minimum, so not on an Amarr medium unless you downgrade at lest one silo to a coupling array, which is crazy if you ask me).
A "regular" reactor can only fit on a large tower (4500/5000/5500 tf total depending on number of inputs, 2/3/4), so they fit on any tower, since even the Amarr one has enough CPU.
You can't put two simple reactions on an Amarr tower however, since you need 6000 but you only get 5500 (and again, downgrading from silo to coupling array anyway is madness).
With separate simple reaction and complex reaction towers, you just move all output from the simple reactor towers split evenly to both of the complex reactors, and pick up the complex reactions.
For a 2-way complex reaction, you need either 2 medium (any except Amarr) and 2 large (any), or 3 large towers (one of them not Amarr).
For a 3-way complex reaction, you need either 3 medium (any except Amarr) and 2 large (any), or 1 medium (any except Amarr) and 3 large towers (one of them not Amarr).
For a 4-way complex reaction, you need either 4 medium (any except Amarr) and 2 large (any), or 4 large towers (two of them not Amarr).
Usually, you'll want to use Gallente towers because they offer the best bonus silo capacity.
A mix of "medium"+"regular" reactors (plus a silo in-between the med and regular) takes 7000/7500/8000 tf (for 2/3/4 inputs) - so for just 2 or 3 inputs, you can pull it off with Caldari towers, but you can't do that with a 4-way reaction unless (again, very, very bad idea) downgrade at least two of the silos to coupling arrays.
You can do the 2-way reaction on Gallente "large" towers too, but it needs to replace at least one silo with a coupling array, but if you replace one, you might as well replace two of the needed total of five (the one between the reactors and the corresponding one as input on the paired large tower)... highly annoying though, and kind of defeats the purpose of having a Gallente tower at all in the first place, but hey, you never know. You'd need to replace 3 out of 5 silos with coupling arrays for a Minnie tower (at least the output would remain a silo), or ALL for an Amarr tower, so really, not worth bothering.
This only saves on space for two simple reactions, so the above story becomes:
* 2-way reaction - 2 large Caldari
* 3-way reaction - 2 large Caldari and 1 medium anything except Amarr
* 4-way reaction - ONLY possible if you downgrade 2 silos to coupling arrays - 2 large Caldari and 2 medium anything except Amarr, or 2 large Caldari and 1 large anything except Amarr - highly NOT recommended
You'll have to periodically shut down the silo linking the medium and the regular reactors (fills at half of normal speed since half is directly eaten up by the complex reaction) and move it to the other tower's input silos.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.30 17:02:00 -
[37]
I've never run a reaction POS before, but have been working on a spreadsheet of my own -- a little more complex than this, because it attempts to compare the profit from running a one-step supply chain (buying materials from the market) versus a two-step one, and I'm also adding in a sheet that calculates the profit in manufacturing the T2 components oneself.... aaand I'm trying to include volume calculations so I'll know how much hauling I'll need to do (to/from Jita) in order to manage a supply chain.
Yeah, it's a bit of a mess.
What I want to ask is, for those who have done reactions, what are the hidden costs that I may not be seeing from a simple analysis of market prices and POS fuel requirements? I can think of a few myself: the cost of jump freighter fuel, the cost of paying for "protection" from racketeers, the time lost from missed cycles, etc...
Basically I'm running the numbers and reactions look TOO profitable, so I'm trying to figure out why!
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.30 18:17:00 -
[38]
Quite a few people doing reactions on larger scales consider it too tedious and boring (for the risks and investment involved) to keep on bothering with any full chain that pays under half a bil per month, and would not expand to a new chain unless there's around 1 bil/month to be potentially made from it... and that's with a relatively secure base of operations and relatively safe transport route.
Of course, other people doing it on a smaller scale might consider even the lower margin of such profits rather large even if the risks for them are higher.
It's a matter of opinion, I guess
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Audit Services Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.03 17:22:00 -
[39]
Why does Akita T ALWAYS beat me to the punch when it comes to spreadsheet stuff?
I'll take a look a look at it later on.
View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.03 23:44:00 -
[40]
It's far from complete, it only contains a quick complete chain overview, for people that want to only run some of the simple and/or just the complex reaction it's not extraordinarily useful yet... and I couldn't get around to tinkering with it so it will look nice enough with those too into place yet.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Audit Services Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.04 13:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Akita T
It's far from complete, it only contains a quick complete chain overview, for people that want to only run some of the simple and/or just the complex reaction it's not extraordinarily useful yet... and I couldn't get around to tinkering with it so it will look nice enough with those too into place yet.
It's good to know you're human despite your work rate, that we share the same...opportunities of getting the UI appearance perfected. You know it's thanks to you that I actually found out how to implement drop down menus in my own spreadsheet right?
Well take heart in the knowledge that I will be using your formulas in my own reaction spreadsheet for the Tyrannis edition of eve online.
I tried getting a reaction sheet in for Dominion, but it just wasn't happening in the time I had left, I'm still thinking of arrangements for reactions and what possible tinkering CCP will do with the datadump for Tyrannis hopefully not as drastic as Dominion however I do think splitting up the raw and extra ingredients was a really really good thing to do.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts and keep em coming as you drive my own efforts forward.
View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
I tried getting a reaction sheet in for Dominion, but it just wasn't happening in the time I had left, I'm still thinking of arrangements for reactions and what possible tinkering CCP will do with the datadump for Tyrannis hopefully not as drastic as Dominion
Are reactions being changed with the new expansion?
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Audit Services Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.05 00:25:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Are reactions being changed with the new expansion?
Not that we've been made aware of - what I was commenting on was the fact that CCP changed bits around in the data dump for Dominion, while this eventually led to what I believe is much better for spreadsheet designers, it did take me quite a while to figure out the best way to present the data (using two tables instead of one resulted in a much cleaner and efficient method of getting the extra materials used in some items mainly tech 2 stuff of course).
View The Eve Industrial Organiser Site
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.05 17:50:00 -
[44]
Well, lest it be said that I am just a peanut gallery critic, here's my (pretty amateur) attempt at a spreadsheet to calculate the costs and profit potential of various reactions (moon goo, drugs, polymers) as well as calculating the volume of inputs and outputs you need to move. Everybody likes a different kind of user interface; this is the one that suits me best.
Joe's Reaction Cookbook
To make it more complete, I need more stuff on the other steps of T3 production, and some sort of auto-import of market prices would be great.
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Hesdurial
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Posted - 2010.05.12 19:50:00 -
[45]
is it possible to route moon goo directly to a simple reactor w/ no CA or Silo inbetween?
Or does the harvester need to dump the goo somewhere first, in order for the reactor to read its needed input as present?
Essentially does the reactor input check account for contemporaneous production? or must it be present prior to the production cycle.
I run a tight 2 Caldari large setup, and happen to have setup on a moon that can give me one of my gas inputs, but dont have space for the CA (prefer not to cut down on the few ECM/scrams i got already)
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.12 20:03:00 -
[46]
Yes, you can link a harvester's output directly into a simple reactor's input.
You can even link a silo directly into or out of a reactor, as long as you're careful to offline, move stuff, then put the silo back online before the "POS cycle" hits... some people prefer a coupling array in between, but it's not mandatory.
The only thing you shouldn't do is directly link a simple with a complex reactor, since the simple spits out 200 per cycle but the complex eats up only 100 per cycle... so you want at least a coupling array (but preferably a silo) in-between the simple and the complex reactor to pick up the slack (so you can either sell it or move it to a second complex reactor on another tower).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.05.13 02:19:00 -
[47]
Don't want to release my spreadsheet at this time, but here is a link to a google site if you want a quick idea of what reactions and t2 components will pay.
The spreadsheet should automatically grab eve-metrics data for you (thanks Xenofur). It assumes you are purchasing the cheapest 5% from the seller side in The Forge so the ROI numbers are on the conservative side.
The numbers for t2 component manufacture currently do not give isk/hour which is pretty relevant, but does show the relative profitability among say reactor units etc.
If there are any glaring errors please let me know. Sometimes the data from eve-metrics is unavailable or not up to date, so be sure to upload the relevant data in The Forge to eve-metrics.com before blaming me.
I don't have excel and can't figure out how to get xml from Oo. For a simple spreadsheet I can say google docs works pretty well, but it is very basic.
This webpage is provided for general information only and nothing contained in the material constitutes a recommendation for the purchase or sale of any MoonGoo. Also views expressed in this Report are based on research materials available from sources considered reliable. Invest at your own risk.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.15 02:16:00 -
[48]
Tiny update in formatting/presentation, added fast/rough fuel cost calc, other minor changes plus price updates.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1006/EVE_reactions_v4d.zip (Linkage)
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics
K162
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Posted - 2010.07.03 14:48:00 -
[49]
Be fun if you added the T3 reactions to this as well. Lot of people seem to have issues figuring them out.
Right now for example:
Epoxy Resin Reaction = ~8.6M isk/hour in materials, spits out 14.4M isk/hour (selling to buy order) in product, for a monthly profit of 4.1B. Even buying from sell order and selling to buy order has a profit over 2B/month. Prices been in flux a bit recently, but its always been 1-2B a month for epoxy resin.
Some other good ones, like C3-FTM. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it since your spreadsheet made T2 reacting more approachable for the avg person but I haven't seen a T3 reactions spreadsheet out and about.
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Malakai D'troll
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Posted - 2010.07.08 22:20:00 -
[50]
i lub you all, thanks for make me a rich troll
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