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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
BlackHorizon
The Illuminati.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 22:22:00 -
[151]
It seems there is a significant disconnect between CCP server caretakers and Customer Support, along with a fundamental disagreement of priorities between players and CCP management.
When game rules and game mechanics are no longer able to be logically consistent and function due to load (such as aggression timers, duplicate insurance payouts, ghost ships and other 'magical' exploits), logically, the node should not be allowed continue to function under those circumstances, yet from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
lollerskates.
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CCP Atlas
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Posted - 2010.02.08 22:26:00 -
[152]
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 22:42:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:46:35 Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:44:35
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
nice walkback on your blog. "a bug was simply fixed" and "keeping the node alive using methods that make our system admins faint" arent even remotely similar tho. face it, you guys need to man up and replace the assests you caused to be lost by doing beta testing on the live server. or just admit that your a -a- agent. one or the other.
*edit* yes that last part is sarcasm
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Raser Moonstrider
Woopatang
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Posted - 2010.02.08 23:32:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Raser Moonstrider on 08/02/2010 23:34:46
Originally by: Skaarl Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:46:35 Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:44:35
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
nice walkback on your blog. "a bug was simply fixed" and "keeping the node alive using methods that make our system admins faint" arent even remotely similar tho. face it, you guys need to man up and replace the assests you caused to be lost by doing beta testing on the live server. or just admit that your a -a- agent. one or the other.
*edit* yes that last part is sarcasm
That part that would make sys admins faint is that they did it live (as in there could have possibly been very bad secondary effects from the point of view of the admins). "Chaos" could have ensued, had one of the devs mistyped a line of code.
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Zenst
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.08 23:42:00 -
[155]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
When you say `fixed` (fixed, fixed) do you mean:
A) Fixed as in definitivly not a problem any longer, all sorted, nothing too see here.
B) Fixed as in we fixed the fire by removeing the batteries from the smoke alarm and now we dont have any fires.
C) Fixed as in we fixed the fight, as in we made sure one side had an advantage by enabling them to carry on turkey shooting instead of restarting the node and alowing a fairer chance to see who gets a golden ticket and can load the grid.
Sorry to ask but its a very ambigious term in relation to the problem you defined and indeed this single issue as it appears you using the term as a deifinative resolution to the problem as a whole yet this seems to contradicte everything people are saying who were there, so can see the confusion. If it wasn't a golden solution then it wouldn't be a fix but a bodge or duct-tape or a hack or many other terms, but not a fix. Indeed from what I understand to this fix it appears to be more of a bodge in much the same way you would have faster airport turnarounds by removing all the plane safty checks and the like.
Please feel free to be as open as possibel about the problem as we will only repect you more for it, but at least when you come to petitions in these situations, if the logs dont show a valid reson for the lose, like ew no agro on the ship and the client logged out 30 mins ago, then despite there being no logs to show a invalid loss, there aint logs to show a valid loss either now or indeed logs that dont sync up with login/logoff logs. If you were more fairer on judgements in these situations then people would be alot more paitent and polite; But when you say one thing then have another company representative say pretty much the oposite and then say that you actualy both agree whist at the same time say its fixed yet dont say its fixed and still have tests then you can see were I'm getting rather confused as to what you are saying as somebody else has already said the oposite of whatever you going to say before you have said it and then sometimes after your've said it.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 23:51:00 -
[156]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
There seems to be some very subtle meaning to this "keeping a node alive". Apparently it's not even close to what everyone thinks it means...
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:02:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Raser Moonstrider Edited by: Raser Moonstrider on 08/02/2010 23:34:46
Originally by: Skaarl Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:46:35 Edited by: Skaarl on 08/02/2010 22:44:35
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
nice walkback on your blog. "a bug was simply fixed" and "keeping the node alive using methods that make our system admins faint" arent even remotely similar tho. face it, you guys need to man up and replace the assests you caused to be lost by doing beta testing on the live server. or just admit that your a -a- agent. one or the other.
*edit* yes that last part is sarcasm
That part that would make sys admins faint is that they did it live (as in there could have possibly been very bad secondary effects from the point of view of the admins). "Chaos" could have ensued, had one of the devs mistyped a line of code.
chaos *DID* ensue, the whole part about ghost ships being killed 2 hours later is not a figment of our imagination...
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:37:00 -
[158]
I still don't understand you ccp, you say that:
Our reimbursement policies are very strict and we can only reimburse if we are able to verify that a bug or server error caused the loss. We hope that you understand our position and that you will recover swiftly from the loss.
and
lag affects all sides equally
yet you have confirmed there is a problem with the servers, and this isn't typical lag that both sides experience, and still you say **** you to the playerbase that has been royally screwed by your ****** up servers.
There have been at least 2-3 BIG battles where one side lost a lot of ships they should not have lost... NC, PL, CVA prolly more. If it is confirmed that your server is screwed and the pilots loss cannot be pinned on agression etc, then I see no reason why they should not get reimbursed.
You don't like it when people get ****** off at you yet you treat your paying customers like **** when your game is failing and we are suffering from it.
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Mankell Grenze
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:49:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Mankell Grenze on 09/02/2010 00:51:48 I'm seriously glad with what CCP atlas announced, so instead of the massive fights where the node just died and people could come back later on with most of their ships unharmed, now they'll be able to experience what I did and find their expensive ship blackscreened, unable to do anything at all for hours to then die to turkeyshooting.
I guess CVA, too, had that kind of courtesy where CCP would keep the node alive just so they'd all burn in a fire without being able to take a single enemy capital down.
Thanks for letting other people enjoy this part of the game.
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Troubadour
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:56:00 -
[160]
It's a good thing you guys take full responsibility when a bug like this that should have been caught in testing makes it way to tranquility. Passing the buck onto the players and costing them almost half a trillion in isk for something that was caused by an oversight on CCP's part is not what this company is about.
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Doof Hardcastle
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:58:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Doof Hardcastle on 09/02/2010 00:57:58 ccp should start doing dev blogs more like pop songs, with the subtext that actually sums up what the point of the devblog is in parentheses.
New Dev Blog: We Are Aware of the Problem --> New Dev Blog: We Are Aware of the Problem (But Fu ck You Fa ggots Who Got Ra ped By It)
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Centra Spike
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 00:59:00 -
[162]
I'm just mad I launched a bomb on the cyno in and didn't get on any (friendly) titan mails.
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Ander
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:03:00 -
[163]
CCP - I'm sure the lag affected EVERYONE equally. Infact I'm so sure about it that I can safely point to the fact that NC lost 100 dreads and -A- took none in a battle with equal strenght numbers. *cough*
EVE PIRATE BattleDB.com |
Bobbechk
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:03:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Bobbechk on 09/02/2010 01:05:23
So wait... CCP wanted to get live information about what happens to a node when in this kind of strain, keep it alive to monitor it and caused us to loose multiple titans and other capitals...
...and doesn't reimburse?
seriously what
edit: guess my sig is outdated now, if i only could afford to make a new one for myself
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Danthomir
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:14:00 -
[165]
Originally by: CCP Atlas (by this I mean that the situation would not have been better if the node would have died)
Wait - what? Let's do a quick comparison.
The node stayed up, and:
- vast majority of players that jumped in didn't load grid
- they then could not log out, since ships do not disappear in lag
- as a result, they lost everything to people who pre-loaded system hours ago, without firing a single shot or being able to do anything
If the node went down, then:
- it's not like the players who didn't load grid would miss anything
- but at least their ships would disappear on logout
- and a gigantic cap fleet wouldn't get eaten by a bug
That sounds quite a bit 'better', don't you think?
I realize that you're in a pretty ****ty position as far as PR goes, and don't really know for sure what happened. Since you can't trust the evidence of your own logs/ludicrous 100% efficiencies on killboards/youtube videos/forum posts/feedback from the one or two devs that were probably there...
But can you at least try not to say things that are blatantly wrong, while trying to hide them in walls of text?
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Sexy McQueen
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:16:00 -
[166]
posting in a PL whine thread
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:19:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Zenst
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
When you say `fixed` (fixed, fixed) do you mean:
Your dictionary-fu is strong, but not really applicable.
As mentioned in the dev post; they had a heartbeat timer that wasn't getting sent when it should have. The 'admin faint'-inducing stuff done on the live server was likely either generating fake heartbeats, disabling them for that node or applying untested patches without the usual QA.
So CVA got ****ed by a bug fix that will go live on the rest of the cluster tomorrow. Your anus'es got stretched cause you hoped to take advantage of a bug that would make the node crash yet somehow it didn't. And now you're all butthurt about it.
Where have I heard this before? Oh, yeah... think GS/PL did something similar in... err... what system was that again.
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San Ti
Gallente The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:25:00 -
[168]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Low level optimizations and ways to better spread the load is actually something that is being actively worked on by our Core Cluster group and hopefully we will be able to push the boundaries further so that Eve can support the fleet fights of the future.
I guess you say fleet fights of the future because EVE doesn't currently support fleet fights and hasn't since the Dominion 'upgrade'.
PS: this
Originally by: Batolemaeus Even if the cluster behaved like before dominion and even if you get fights up to 1.5k under control, your failure in game design will produce higher and higher numbers until the nodes break again.
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Danthomir
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:32:00 -
[169]
What do you mean? Dominion is great for capital fights, AAA killed like 100 dreads and lost none just recently!
Dominion has made shot-for-shot attrition cap battles a thing of the past; now, the outcome depends on player skill and discipline!
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Konoch
Caldari Azriel's Legion Free Worlds Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:42:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Danthomir
Originally by: CCP Atlas (by this I mean that the situation would not have been better if the node would have died)
Wait - what? Let's do a quick comparison.
The node stayed up, and:
- vast majority of players that jumped in didn't load grid
- they then could not log out, since ships do not disappear in lag
- as a result, they lost everything to people who pre-loaded system hours ago, without firing a single shot or being able to do anything
If the node went down, then:
- it's not like the players who didn't load grid would miss anything
- but at least their ships would disappear on logout
- and a gigantic cap fleet wouldn't get eaten by a bug
That sounds quite a bit 'better', don't you think?
I realize that you're in a pretty ****ty position as far as PR goes, and don't really know for sure what happened. Since you can't trust the evidence of your own logs/ludicrous 100% efficiencies on killboards/youtube videos/forum posts/feedback from the one or two devs that were probably there...
But can you at least try not to say things that are blatantly wrong, while trying to hide them in walls of text?
Key problem and the true crux of the dliema if i read this right: Had the node gone down it wouldnt have just gone BOOM it would have been a tennis match as the server code tried to keep the area alive. (assuming that as you say they had let it go.) Vollying the problem from one node to another locally and causing wider spread systemic damage to the adjoining systems if not the entire constelation and by extension the region and possibly the GAME ITSELF. Now i could be wrong on this and i might be misreading the technical aspects. Though i dont think i am. I truly sympathize with the people that suffered in this. But I'm sorry if you feel the need to throw 1000+ at a system to take it it says something very bad about your FC Fleet Makeup and intentions.
I have stated it before i will state it again and i will do it until CCP does something about this. What happened in D-G was a combination of bad fleet command (CVA) and BLATENT EXPLOITING (-A-) Pre loading systems like people have lately is nothing but a raw exploit attempt that borders on DDS level Internet attacks. Dont get me wrong. CCP is nowhere near blameless: The entire system concerning towers needs to be looked at. They're too strong and cost too damned much for starters. A Zero sec tower should be able to be taken out with 20 capitals and maybe 50 properly setup long range ships. At that point you send a 200 man fleet as defense and the other side comes back with maybe another 150 total of about 400-500 in system. People would blob less if taking these things out didnt require enough firepower to crack 30 planets for their destruction. Add in the server issues they're having lately because of the constant rise in population and they've got their hands full.
A large part of this problem is also in the hands of fleet commanders who always go to the more numbers card deciding to Zerg instead of using intelligent tactics. CVA supposedly had bad fleet communication which cost them dearly. And hell it wasnt even CVA or LFA who went full bore into that fight it was PXF who brought the soldiers. Intelligent fleet battles would dictate using a force so vast to hit multiple targets at once. Perform a systemic and multiphasic shock attack against multiple tower targets in multiple systems. This way if CVA does bring an overwhelming fleet odds are it cant reform to hit all the sights being hit. But NOOOOOOOO Everyone zergs like a goddamned starcraft player on PCP. The problem has two sides.
1. CCP has problems with server capacity at large numbers. 2. Players see this and exploit it to their advantage.
Cut out the second and the first would be a lot easier. Baring that i'd at least like to see SOMEWHAT intelligent fleet design. (4k limit.)
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:59:00 -
[171]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
Nice Backpedaling. ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2010.02.09 02:46:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
So CVA got ****ed by a bug fix that will go live on the rest of the cluster tomorrow. Your anus'es got stretched cause you hoped to take advantage of a bug that would make the node crash yet somehow it didn't. And now you're all butthurt about it.
Where have I heard this before? Oh, yeah... think GS/PL did something similar in... err... what system was that again.
Ignoring your obvious bitterness, I think the strategy PL were attempting is something called fighting outnumbered ( I know it's an alien concept to most ) to do that they were relying on the ability of Titans to kill capitals in one shot, something that was promoted quite recently in err.. what trailer was that again.
Do you really think that crashing the node was the objective, gtfo.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.09 02:48:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
Nice Backpedaling.
Backpedaling or not; those of us willing to read what CCP writes now know same fix will be deployed for the whole cluster.
No doubt next weekend someone is going to post a rage thread in CAOD about how the node didn't crash at 1600 players.
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Zenst
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.09 03:24:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: CCP Atlas
Originally by: BlackHorizon ...from what I can read from CCP Atlas' posts, CCP forced the node to stay online.
That is actually not what happened. A bug which caused nodes to die was fixed. It is as simple as that.
Nice Backpedaling.
Backpedaling or not; those of us willing to read what CCP writes now know same fix will be deployed for the whole cluster.
No doubt next weekend someone is going to post a rage thread in CAOD about how the node didn't crash at 1600 players.
Oh I read it and whats more I fully understood it.
Allow me to explain for those that don't, very simply:
AS it stood before this `fix` though I'm going to call it bodge, the server would allow say 1300 in and more than that the node would die, not exact number but just for inistration purposes in this instance. This casued issues which was the server not handerling heartbeats as it was suffering and this would casue it to be bounced.
Now with this fix aka bodge they have basicly removed that limiter so the server will take as many as say hello to it with the only limiter being how it runs or in this case walks.
So we have a situation now were instead of say 400 out of the 1300 actualy being able to play the game we now have maybe 400 out of say 1600 who can play the game.
This is not a fix and is not the problem that needs to be fixed as its more the case of if a system lets somebody in then they should let them in on the basis that they can play in that system like all the other people and not descriminate on a who was here first basis.
So removing the traffic control limiters can be called a fix by certain types of people, when you look at the actual problem(s) and what the issues are you will realise that this is far from being a fix but a bodge that will only go and compound things further.
But I can see how some people who have just read the manual will actualy believe what it says instead of experiencing it and knowing the quirks and cavets.
I will saftly say that this bodge they have outline will not fix the issues that players are having concerns about and indeed will only exsacerbate them further. I hope i'm wrong and given how little techinical details ccp has given us its not impossible, though extremly improbably given what we have seen and read first person testomonies of events with this bodge in place. Given all the facts and my comprehension of whats in play here I'll sadly say it will only end in tears.
Besides this fix would only be needed if for some reason the whole traffic control system that would prevent people overloading a node was working, not seen that about for a bit, did that get fixed by disabling it and as such shift dirt ontot he heartbeats carpet, I can only speculate on that one.
Now moving the control units to the other side of the gate and as such forcing the combat into several systems instead of one, now that would of been deemed a fix in my books as it address the issue at hand and not a issue thats for all effect a red hearring dressed up in a placebo suit with a ribbon around it screaminging love me.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.09 03:38:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Zenst I will saftly say that this bodge they have outline will not fix the issues that players are having concerns about and indeed will only exsacerbate them further.
Finally someone who switched his brain on. \o/
To quote myself, because i cba to type it again:
Originally by: Batolemaeus
CCP created a system that required more people than before. CCP concentrated multiple goals into singular ones. Even if the cluster behaved like before dominion and even if you get fights up to 1.5k under control, your failure in game design will produce higher and higher numbers until the nodes break again.
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.09 04:36:00 -
[176]
haha.
CCPs treats its customers, like I only wish I could treat mine. Open wide, *****es, I got a present for you.
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Serena Tiger
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Posted - 2010.02.09 04:37:00 -
[177]
A bug ? Ok it can happens. But after what you admitted us, non reimbursing the capital ships lost in this issue is totally unforgivable.
I lost nothing in DG but i was here seeing what an alive node means...
My point : no reimbursement to screwed players = -2 account next month o/
Eve Online : 2009 Game of the year 2010 Shame of the year.
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Hannibell
Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 05:12:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Hannibell on 09/02/2010 05:12:51
Originally by: Serena Tiger A bug ? Ok it can happens. But after what you admitted us, non reimbursing the capital ships lost in this issue is totally unforgivable.
I lost nothing in DG but i was here seeing what an alive node means...
My point : no reimbursement to screwed players = -2 account next month o/
-3 more when current subscriptions run out if CCP stands by their "nothing we can do, in the interest of "fairness" *cough bull**** cough*" line.
Dying in battle, even in heavy lag? Fair. Dying an hour after log off, CCP admitting openly they meddled with the system during a LIVE BATTLE, and thereby broke every expected game mechanic regarding log off (which happened LONG before any Reds arrived) but still refusing to own up and take responsibility? Deplorable, unsupportable, and simply no longer worth my time to engage with...
CCP admit your culpability here, or continue to treat your customers like **** and lose them.
No you cant have my stuff.
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evsNOTeve
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Posted - 2010.02.09 05:59:00 -
[179]
doesnt matter what they do, ive already canceled my subs and sold some of my chars....heres to 20bill worth of officer fit suicide t1 frigs flown by a newb char :P
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Prexir
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.09 06:26:00 -
[180]
Originally by: evsNOTeve doesnt matter what they do, ive already canceled my subs and sold some of my chars....heres to 20bill worth of officer fit suicide t1 frigs flown by a newb char :P
Great can I have the suff of all four of you????
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