Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:42:00 -
[1]
I need to figure out which cruiser skill to dump a month's worth of training time into. I'm 125.5% sure this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find what I want; may as well just ask you guys for your opinions directly.
My main goal is to take part in small gang skirmishes, like the kind of stuff you occasionally see in lowsec and Empire-based wars. Lately I've been flying a support Dominix fitted with shield reps, ewar, and other goodies (gotta love swarming peoples' faction drones with cheap t1 lights - my favorite way of getting people to recall them), so I figure I might try my hand at a t2 Logistics hull. Logistics is the only thing I can really ask about, as there really aren't any t2 cruisers of any other sort that have caught my eye - however, just to mix things up a bit, I'd like to know about Recon ships, too.
So, the question is... what are considered the "best" Logistics ships? Word on the streets is that the Guardian is far and away the best, but I can't tell exactly why. As for Recon, I've heard the names "Rook" and "Pilgrim" tossed around in flamewars.
Thoughts? Thanks :D _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Sprilk
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Toxif I need to figure out which cruiser skill to dump a month's worth of training time into. I'm 125.5% sure this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find what I want; may as well just ask you guys for your opinions directly.
My main goal is to take part in small gang skirmishes, like the kind of stuff you occasionally see in lowsec and Empire-based wars. Lately I've been flying a support Dominix fitted with shield reps, ewar, and other goodies (gotta love swarming peoples' faction drones with cheap t1 lights - my favorite way of getting people to recall them), so I figure I might try my hand at a t2 Logistics hull. Logistics is the only thing I can really ask about, as there really aren't any t2 cruisers of any other sort that have caught my eye - however, just to mix things up a bit, I'd like to know about Recon ships, too.
So, the question is... what are considered the "best" Logistics ships? Word on the streets is that the Guardian is far and away the best, but I can't tell exactly why. As for Recon, I've heard the names "Rook" and "Pilgrim" tossed around in flamewars.
Thoughts? Thanks :D
I dont know to much about logistiscs, but for small gang pvp (like you stated... minmatar logistics apear to be the best for its speed and agility. also small gang hac pvp leans towards sheilds.
But maybe someone with more insight can help.
|
Shadowy Assistant
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:48:00 -
[3]
Minmatar Cruiser V.
Scimitar -> Best shield logistics Vagabond -> Excellent solo/small gang roaming ship Rapier -> Always welcome in gangs Broadsword -> The best HIC available
|
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Shadowy Assistant Minmatar Cruiser V.
Scimitar -> Best shield logistics Vagabond -> Excellent solo/small gang roaming ship Rapier -> Always welcome in gangs Broadsword -> The best HIC available
Concise and effective. Thanks - and thank you, too, Sprilk :D _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Khors
Amtek Inc
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:52:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Khors on 05/02/2010 17:52:42 the plus for each in my opinion.
minmatar: + Scimitar + Vaga + Munin + Rapier + Huginn + Rupture and stabber (great t1 cruisers with the lvl 5 skill)
gallente: + Ishtar + Oneiros (good for smaller armor gangs) + Arazu
caldari: + rook + cerberus
amarr: + Zealot + Sacrilege + Curse + Pilgrim + Guardian
edit: forgot hics, but they're pretty even across the board, all great tanks with fairly weak damage output. -
|
Belkadan
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 17:58:00 -
[6]
The guardian is a great logistics ship for any fleets that a) are armor tanking, and b) there's no need to move crazy fast.
So, BS fleets are generally the guardian's playground. The reason they're so loved is cause they get bonuses to armor rep and capacitor rep. So you can easily spider tank 2+ guardians together for great results. The alternate race that has bonuses to both rep and capacitor is the basilisk, but they're less common, as shield tanking BS fleets is less common.
Scimitars are the prefered logistics for fast moving gangs, as they're very fast and have a small sig radius. So they can keep up with HAC gangs easily.
As for which to train, it's what you feel comfortable with doing. If you wanna ECM, caldari is your target (falcon, rook), drones gallente (ishtar), speed and F U dps go with minni, armor/sniping cap warfare go with amarr.
Look at the T2 ships and their bonuses and decide for yourself which you'd rather be doing. Some people are into curses/pilgrim, some love the vagas, some love sniping, some love being an ECM douche, some love drones.
Personally I'd go with minmatar cruiser 5. You get good HACs, recons, and logistics. more than enough to hold you over until you decide you want to try something else.
|
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 18:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Khors Edited by: Khors on 05/02/2010 17:52:42 the plus for each in my opinion.
minmatar: + Scimitar + Vaga + Munin + Rapier + Huginn + Rupture and stabber (great t1 cruisers with the lvl 5 skill)
gallente: + Ishtar + Oneiros (good for smaller armor gangs) + Arazu
caldari: + rook + cerberus
amarr: + Zealot + Sacrilege + Curse + Pilgrim + Guardian
edit: forgot hics, but they're pretty even across the board, all great tanks with fairly weak damage output.
Hmm. For the most part, it was down to Minmatar vs. Amarr vs. Gallente for me; the Ishtar is remarkably sexy from what I've heard, but I'm not crazy enough about shooting stuff to get a t2 ship for it - Hurricanes and Myrmidons are just as monstrous. So, in terms of selection, that leaves Minmatar vs. Amarr. Guns vs. lazorz... duct tape vs. shiny golden stuff... in RP terms, loyalty vs. learning how to hotwire the enemy's car space ship :D _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Rusty Doug
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 18:50:00 -
[8]
If there is one thing I know (and trust me, I only know one thing) it's Logistics ships. So here comes pros and cons.
Guardian: Considered the best because....well...it is the best. BUT it's only the best if you have another Guardian on field with you. The shear amount of cap and armor that 2 Guardians can feed each other is pretty staggering. A pair of these will win just about any small skirmish you could get into. The problem with Guardians is they are much less effective when they are the sole logistics on field. Don't get me wrong, they are still super awesome solo, and you will help your small fleet. You will be pushed from the field pretty quickly though. But you will be primaried and the Guardian's local tank does not give it much staying power.
Scimitar: IMO the best Logistics ship when you don't have Logistics buddies in fleet with you. Why so good? Well you can fit 3 Large Shield Transmitters AND a Large Shield Booster at the same time. So, you can do great repping and if you are primaried your tiny sig, huge resists, and LSB can tank a LOT for a LONG time. Just to test it, I sat not moving in an AC maelstom's optimal range and he could not break my tank. We were all impressed. If your fleet likes to fly really fast and zip around there are some completely decent MWD fits out there too. But it sounds to me like you will mostly be fighting on gates and stations so speed is less of a factor.
TLDR: Guardian: Superawesomegreat with a friend. Without friend it's just super. Scimitar: Superawesome.
|
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 19:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rusty Doug If there is one thing I know (and trust me, I only know one thing) it's Logistics ships. So here comes pros and cons.
Guardian: Considered the best because....well...it is the best. BUT it's only the best if you have another Guardian on field with you. The shear amount of cap and armor that 2 Guardians can feed each other is pretty staggering. A pair of these will win just about any small skirmish you could get into. The problem with Guardians is they are much less effective when they are the sole logistics on field. Don't get me wrong, they are still super awesome solo, and you will help your small fleet. You will be pushed from the field pretty quickly though. But you will be primaried and the Guardian's local tank does not give it much staying power.
Scimitar: IMO the best Logistics ship when you don't have Logistics buddies in fleet with you. Why so good? Well you can fit 3 Large Shield Transmitters AND a Large Shield Booster at the same time. So, you can do great repping and if you are primaried your tiny sig, huge resists, and LSB can tank a LOT for a LONG time. Just to test it, I sat not moving in an AC maelstom's optimal range and he could not break my tank. We were all impressed. If your fleet likes to fly really fast and zip around there are some completely decent MWD fits out there too. But it sounds to me like you will mostly be fighting on gates and stations so speed is less of a factor.
TLDR: Guardian: Superawesomegreat with a friend. Without friend it's just super. Scimitar: Superawesome.
This is what I needed. Thank you :D
Gonna go with the Scimitar for now, then (possibly) try out the Guardian if, years from now, I'm in a position to join a lot of mixed BS gangs with other Logistics pilots. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Rusty Doug
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 19:08:00 -
[10]
I have one one bit of advice: Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP!
|
|
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 20:11:00 -
[11]
:3 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 20:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Rusty Doug I have one one bit of advice: Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP!
Also, you might also consider getting Logistics 5 as soon as humanly possible. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor. Enforcers of Serenity
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:12:00 -
[13]
Hmm... been looking around, but I'm not sure if I should get Logistics up to 5. What do you guys think? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
Keiko Shizuka
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Rusty Doug I have one one bit of advice: Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP!
Also, you might also consider getting Logistics 5 as soon as humanly possible.
Definitely get Logistics 5 if you plan on using the ship, it does incredible things to how well the ship performs.
Also consider Recon 5 if you like their playstyle, getting more CPU to play around with when fitting is fantastic.
|
Lazarann
Excel Cartel Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 21:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toxif Hmm... been looking around, but I'm not sure if I should get Logistics up to 5. What do you guys think?
If you're seriously interested in specializing in a particular kind of ship, go big or go home. Logi 5 will not only make you awesome in whichever one you train for (assuming the scimi first) but whatever others you train later. The same applies to recons, HACs, HICs, etc. It's never a bad skill to have, you just need to be willing to invest the time. ---------------- A million faces, each a million lies |
Baneken
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.02.05 23:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Keiko ****uka
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Rusty Doug I have one one bit of advice: Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP!
Also, you might also consider getting Logistics 5 as soon as humanly possible.
Definitely get Logistics 5 if you plan on using the ship, it does incredible things to how well the ship performs.
At least with oneiros you can get away with logistic IV if you have all of the cap reducing skills trained to V, if not then it's time to train logistic V.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 01:24:00 -
[17]
do min cruisers
Then you should do logistics 5!
then do amarr cruisers later
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 02:40:00 -
[18]
Interesting.
Logistics: Guardian(Paired)/Scimitar(Solo) > Basilisk(Paired) > Oneiros(Solo) Hic: Devoter(Blob)/Broadsword(small gang) > Onyx > Phobos Hac: Wicked mix here, all have their uses and all depends on how you'll use them. Recons: Amarr for solo, Caldari for Ewar, Minmatar for narrow roles and gallente for arazu. T3: Tengu. The other 3 are improved t2 ships(Arty/vaga loki, Deimos Proteus, Sacrilege Legion), the tengu covers more roles than the other 3. Commandship: Really only viable small gangs and solo. Astarte and Nighthawk barely even then. Eos is useless, vulture rarely much good, damnation and claymore awesome at what they do.
So all in all, all comes down to your playing style. All races can be useful for pretty much any situation, you'll just cover different roles. Gallente currently got slightly less roles it can cover. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 703899
|
Hiroshima Jita
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 08:45:00 -
[19]
This choice should theoretically be balanced.
Caldari don't offer a solo HAC. You do get the falcon though which is pretty awesome in the right gangs as an ewar ship. And the basilisk with its energy transfer is going to rep more than a scimitar but is easier for an enemy gang to put dps on. Caldari commmand ships stink outside of pve and their sniping is not all that exceptional despite it being their racial specialty.
Gallente get the Ishtar which used to be a solid solo hac before the vagabond got a dps/falloff boost. Their long points are useful in combat. And Gallente blasterboats stink. At least out here in 0.0. The oneiros is pretty subpar.
Minmatar get the vaga which is the best solo hac. The rapier is sometimes more useful than the arazu sometimes less. The munnin is a solid sniper hac. Their command ships are actually usable in some situations. Ex Claymore in nano gangs. The scimitar is very nicely survivable.
For armor gangs the damnation is pretty awesome. Amarr also contribute the zealot to the sniper hac gang where it does very well. The sac isn't bad but doesn't have a large role. Cap ewar with drone dps is nice. The guardian is useful in armor gangs.
I forgot to say that the tengu and proteus are probably the better t3 ships with the legion filling in nicely for pve.
My personal beleif is that gallente are a bit weak and calari's options, while good, are a bit restrictive.
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 08:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Khors words
your signature is friggin amazing
OP I would go either Amarr or Minmatar for cruiser V. Vaga, Rapier, Scimitar, Muninn Sacrilege, Curse, Guardian, Zealot
All great ships without an awful lot of overlap. As for which one first? I dunno, I went Amarr first but I use both of them about as often. ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
|
|
TimMc
Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 12:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Toxif Hmm... been looking around, but I'm not sure if I should get Logistics up to 5. What do you guys think?
For HAC 5 and other it just means a bit more DPS, Logistics 5 almost halves the cap usage of remote reps from Logistics 4. Very useful.
|
Pistrik
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 12:41:00 -
[22]
Do like I did and train all four racial cruiser to V!
....and Recons
.....and HAC
>.>
|
Zhilia Mann
|
Posted - 2010.02.06 16:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Toxif Hmm... been looking around, but I'm not sure if I should get Logistics up to 5. What do you guys think?
For HAC 5 and other it just means a bit more DPS, Logistics 5 almost halves the cap usage of remote reps from Logistics 4. Very useful.
Originally by: Pistrik Do like I did and train all four racial cruiser to V!
....and Recons
.....and HAC
>.>
HAC 5 is the most useless of the three. Between the massive bonuses to logistics and the ability to actually fit a force recon, a few 5% bonuses to damage or an increase in drone bay and control range just don't cut it.
|
Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2010.02.07 23:00:00 -
[24]
The Arazu is very (too) situational. The Ishtar is HORRIBLE CPU, powergrid and capacitor. In fact, it's a terrible ship, but it can do horrifying things in the right hands. The Deimos is terrible when fitted like a Brutix, but if you can manage to make an unique fit to suit your style in a gang, it's awesome. I love my Deimos, and no, it doesn't have blasters.
So... to do small skirmishes, as you stated, I would say any race except Amarr (although they get the Sacrilege). In the end, each race can do it, but Gallente and Amarr seem to have LESS (but solid ships nonetheless) options to do what you intend to do.
|
Xing Fey
|
Posted - 2010.02.07 23:24:00 -
[25]
Don't forget HICs!
Onyx for WTFICANTKILLTHISBUBBLE Broadsword for doing more DPS while still being preety tanky.
|
TraininVain
|
Posted - 2010.02.08 08:41:00 -
[26]
Amarr or Minmatar imo.
Minmatar has basically no bad ships in the package deal and has several best-in-class.
Amarr has one or two I don't regard as being so fantastic but is still a great deal.
Guardian is the best armour logi but really needs to be flown in pairs. If you look at it's bonuses it has armour and cap transfer. The transfered cap is, in defiance of the laws of thermodynamics, more than is used so two guardians make cap out of nowhere.
Scimitar is great for fast shield gangs (e.g. HAC + Recon gangs).
Recon-wise... well it's really defined by the e-war bonus they get imo.
Where there's two ships with the same e-war bonus (e.g. Falcon + Rook) the one with cloak tends to be preferred because it adds the ability to scout and keeps the e-war as a delightful surprise.
Minmatar get webs which is handy. Stops stuff running back to gate. Helps keep stuff tackled.
Amarr get the fearsome curse which zaps the targets cap from 40km and borks their turrets from 100km. The downside is it's not cloakable (and obviously people hate fighting them). The pilgrim doesn't have a range bonus and is more of a solo hunter as a result. It's not so great in gangs like the curse.
The ECM boats are still pretty good despite receiving a range nerf. The rook and the falcon basically do the same thing ecm-wise so the Falcon is the preferred platform.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2010.02.08 09:19:00 -
[27]
Each race is fairly equal tbh.
Recons. Curse and Rook are unquestionably the pick of the combat recons. Huginn and Lachesis have their roles but are lacklustre in comparison. For force recons, Falcon is great as a general gang-support platform. Arazu has a good small-gang role as a cloaky proby long-range tackler. Pilgrim is really more a solo platform, and not one that I rate - it has to go into tackle range, its DPS is vulnerable and not great - if you get baited and tackled it's hard to get away. Rapier is okay, nothing spectacular though. I think Caldari takes this one.
HACs. By which I mean sniper HACs or small-gang support HACs. Zealot is obviously king of sniper HACs, behind it being Eagle and Muninn, in no particular order here. Deimos is awful as a blaster platform and not great as a rail one. Sacrilege is terrible as either a HAM or HM platform, being generally outclassed by Drake either way because of its short range. Vaga is great. Cerb is great as a support platform in small gangs, able to project a 90 km death sphere for frigates or apply good DPS to any hostile ewar ship or logistics platform within 230 km. Ishtar doesn't work as a sniper but can be useful in small gangs with sentries. Hard to say who wins here - no race has two really good HACs. Amarr has one great, one rubbish; Minnie and Caldari have two decent ones but with Caldari's being rather more role-focused, but Gallente has two unremarkable ones.
Logistics. Scimitar for mobile cruiser gangs, Guardian for BS gangs, Onieros for when you don't have another Guardian, Basilisk for, erm. Minmatar here.
Frankly, there's no clear winner. If you want a sniper HAC, go Amarr. If you want general gang-support roles, go Caldari for Rook, Falcon and Cerb. If you want a solo option, go Minmatar for Vaga or Amarr for Curse (although everyone will often run away when they see a Curse on scan). If you want to tackle mission runners, go Arazu.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.02.08 10:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rusty Doug I have one one bit of advice: Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP! Get Logistics 5 ASAP!
|
Walker Bulldog
Minmatar VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
|
Posted - 2010.02.08 19:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita And the basilisk with its energy transfer is going to rep more than a scimitar but is easier for an enemy gang to put dps on.
With logistics 5, you can do a cap stable scimitar with 4 shield transfers as long as you fit AB instead of MWD. I fly scimitar with 4 shield transfers, LSE, AB, 2x invul, 2x cap rechargers, 4x PDUs and 2x CCCs. It's cap stable running all 4 reps, AB and both invul fields constantly, which means I can maintain ~750m/s throughout an engagement, keeping up transversal to aid the small sig res. It does require logistics 5, both cap skills at 5 and shield emission systems at 5 to pull off though.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |