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[PROPOSAL] Active Tank Bonus Buff

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yani dumyat Pixie Cats	Posted - 2010.03.09 00:33:00 - [121] Active tanking modules and bonuses need looked at simultaneously otherwise you'll achieve nothing because it's so much easier to fit an oversize extender/plate than it is to fit an oversize repper / booster. A large shield booster + medium cap booster takes up more pg/cpu than two large extenders and takes 109 seconds to make up the same amount of HP (assuming lvl 5 skills). Not many 1 vs 1 fights are going to last long enough for that to be a worthwhile trade off. On most cruisers the choice is between a large extender or medium booster + small cap booster. Until this discrepancy is fixed active tanking bonuses will be worthless on anything smaller than a battleship. Originally by: Grut Wouldn't it be better to tweak the bonus to +10% to repair mod and +10% received rr Quoted as proof that intelligence exists somewhere on the eve forums. Sig_______ "Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth."
Enzu777	Posted - 2010.03.09 05:13:00 - [122] strongly agree
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.11 09:59:00 - [123] Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 11/03/2010 10:06:08 Well looking at figures in EFT (which I hate doing cause it isn't really testing ideas) and looking at only third tier BS's in a remote rep role these are results I found (all lvl 5 skills no implants). Abaddon: DPS.......920 @ 15(+10)km (tracking 0.04129) TANK......150k EHP with a defence efficiency of 394 (omni damage) with a single remote armour rep Hyperion: DPS.......1085 @ 4.5(+13)km (tracking 0.07036) TANK......110k EHP with a defence efficiency of 253 (omni damgae) with a single remote armour rep Rohk: DPS.......748 @ 6.8(+13)km (tracking 0.05412) TANK......117k (124k w Invul overloaded) EHP with a defence efficiency of 394 (431 OL'd Invul)with a single remote shield rep Maelstrom: DPS.......1021 @ 3.5 (+31)km (tracking 0.05913) TANK.....95k (100k with invul OL'd) EHP with a defence efficiency of 268 (298 Invul OL'd) with a single remote shield rep Now if we apply the idea of increasing the ammount of RR the Hyperion and Maelstrom recieve, say 7.5% / BS level the EFT defence efficiency figures would be far closer to their competitors. Does anyone bleive this would create an imbalance or do youthink that it gives the Hyp and Mael a fleet role instead of just relegating them to solo/very small gang work as the local rep bonus becomes useless vs more than 2 or three ships. So in summary.... what this thread would be requesting is that the active tank bonus be increase to 10% per lvl of armour repairer/ shield boost ammount and 7.5% bonus to RR recieved but only in armour for hype and shield for mael.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.03.11 12:22:00 - [124] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 11/03/2010 12:23:11 Originally by: Spugg Galdon Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 11/03/2010 10:06:08 Well looking at figures in EFT (which I hate doing cause it isn't really testing ideas) and looking at only third tier BS's in a remote rep role these are results I found (all lvl 5 skills no implants). Abaddon: DPS.......920 @ 15(+10)km (tracking 0.04129) TANK......150k EHP with a defence efficiency of 394 (omni damage) with a single remote armour rep Hyperion: DPS.......1085 @ 4.5(+13)km (tracking 0.07036) TANK......110k EHP with a defence efficiency of 253 (omni damgae) with a single remote armour rep Rohk: DPS.......748 @ 6.8(+13)km (tracking 0.05412) TANK......117k (124k w Invul overloaded) EHP with a defence efficiency of 394 (431 OL'd Invul)with a single remote shield rep Maelstrom: DPS.......1021 @ 3.5 (+31)km (tracking 0.05913) TANK.....95k (100k with invul OL'd) EHP with a defence efficiency of 268 (298 Invul OL'd) with a single remote shield rep Now if we apply the idea of increasing the ammount of RR the Hyperion and Maelstrom recieve, say 7.5% / BS level the EFT defence efficiency figures would be far closer to their competitors. Does anyone bleive this would create an imbalance or do youthink that it gives the Hyp and Mael a fleet role instead of just relegating them to solo/very small gang work as the local rep bonus becomes useless vs more than 2 or three ships. So in summary.... what this thread would be requesting is that the active tank bonus be increase to 10% per lvl of armour repairer/ shield boost ammount and 7.5% bonus to RR recieved but only in armour for hype and shield for mael. Hmm compared to rokh vs maelstrom I see no reason to boost the mael,maybe after a blaster boost. So it is clr that maelstroms bonuses are fine-->no need for this active tank bonus boost.
Emperor Ryan Imperial Syndicate Forces Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.03.11 12:50:00 - [125] yup - Emperor
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.11 13:55:00 - [126] Originally by: Naomi Knight Hmm compared to rokh vs maelstrom I see no reason to boost the mael,maybe after a blaster boost. So it is clr that maelstroms bonuses are fine-->no need for this active tank bonus boost. Gotta love Amarr eh Naomi? They get the DPS, the range advantage, the buffer and the RR and Active tanking advantage. The Maelstrom requires 150% more remote reppers to be on par with the Abaddon's remote rep tanking ability. The Maelstroms DPS is actually THE SAME as the Abaddons at 15km. The Hype does almost the same using Null at 15km. Unfortunatly the Rokh fails here too. Doing only 60% the DPS the other three ships offer . So if the active tank boost goes forward the Rokh will need a boost to buffer to compensate. It all needs balancing out but we'll find a way in the end
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.11 14:23:00 - [127] Sorry I'm a moron... didn't have any drones in the Rokh!.... updated above post
Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.03.11 15:34:00 - [128] Edited by: Harotak on 11/03/2010 15:35:19 Also, change the Hype to 10% SHIELD boost ammount per level pretty please. Real men fit neutrons and four mag stabs.
Radgette	Posted - 2010.03.11 16:40:00 - [129]
Mari Iijima	Posted - 2010.03.11 19:48:00 - [130] +1, my main flys a tri-rep, dual boosted myrm. This will make my tank 2ez4lowsec ;) Lame industrial market alt.

Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.03.11 20:32:00 - [131] Originally by: Spugg Galdon Sorry I'm a moron... didn't have any drones in the Rokh!.... updated above post Oh it seem different now. So giving 7.5%/lvl for incoming remote rep is fine with me ,but not this 10%/lvl the op wants. Btw it seems that armor tank >> shield ,what a surprise,maybe ccp should do something about that too. Like increasing the base shield resists a little bit.
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.11 20:57:00 - [132] Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 11/03/2010 20:58:29 Originally by: Naomi Knight So giving 7.5%/lvl for incoming remote rep is fine with me ,but not this 10%/lvl the op wants. Btw it seems that armor tank >> shield ,what a surprise,maybe ccp should do something about that too. Like increasing the base shield resists a little bit. I agree that 10% is a little too much. Maybe 9% per level is a better figure (end result is 7.5% better @ lvl5 than current. 9%/lvl remote rep recieved looks like an excellent fix for the disparity between the resist bonus and the local boost bonus (according to EFT this would give slightly higher defence efficiency on a single remote rep than a ship with the resist bonus). I've only been checking out battleships with this idea and it looks perfect. Yes the Rokh needs either a slight boost to base shield resists or a boost to base shield ammount to balance it all out with a good buffer. I would prefer the latter as better resists = better RR tanking.
fivetide humidyear Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.03.12 14:46:00 - [133] makes sense
Arthur Black SoE Roughriders Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.03.14 14:07:00 - [134] I would not like to see any sort RR bonus on the ships in questions. Take the Hyperion for instance. What would you do be doing in a RR gang with a 8-turret ship? Drop one gun for a RR? You're not going to be accepted in a RR BS gang without a RR module. Hence, bring the Megathron. If you're talking about dedicated logistics support, well, that could work, but it's already been stated that active tanking ships work best in very small and/or solo engagements. You're not going to have dedicated logistics around for those. Why make this more convoluted than it needs to be? The original idea presented is simple, easy, and makes sense (and still has my support).
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.14 17:24:00 - [135] Originally by: Arthur Black I would not like to see any sort RR bonus on the ships in questions. Take the Hyperion for instance. What would you do be doing in a RR gang with a 8-turret ship? Drop one gun for a RR? You're not going to be accepted in a RR BS gang without a RR module. Hence, bring the Megathron. If you're talking about dedicated logistics support, well, that could work, but it's already been stated that active tanking ships work best in very small and/or solo engagements. You're not going to have dedicated logistics around for those. Why make this more convoluted than it needs to be? The original idea presented is simple, easy, and makes sense (and still has my support). There is a disparity between the usefulness between the armour/shield resist bonus and the armour repair bonus in that the resist bonus works well with a buffer tank, an active tank and spider tanking. The active tank bonus is also useless when the ship is used in larger than very small scale PvP whereas the resist bonus is useful as either a buffer or a remote rep. Dropping a turret for a remote rep is not that big of a deal when it comes to it, In fact, in some instances we use dual RR fits on our megs's in my corp when in fleet BS fights. 9% per level to armour repair amount and remote repair recieved looks like it would work very well amongst the 3rd tier BS's (haven't checked the BC's yet) with some other tweaking of these ships stats ALL the 3rd teir BS's would bcome very useful, well rounded ships that can be used in small/large fleet engagements or solo.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.03.14 17:54:00 - [136] Originally by: Spugg Galdon Originally by: Arthur Black I would not like to see any sort RR bonus on the ships in questions. Take the Hyperion for instance. What would you do be doing in a RR gang with a 8-turret ship? Drop one gun for a RR? You're not going to be accepted in a RR BS gang without a RR module. Hence, bring the Megathron. If you're talking about dedicated logistics support, well, that could work, but it's already been stated that active tanking ships work best in very small and/or solo engagements. You're not going to have dedicated logistics around for those. Why make this more convoluted than it needs to be? The original idea presented is simple, easy, and makes sense (and still has my support). There is a disparity between the usefulness between the armour/shield resist bonus and the armour repair bonus in that the resist bonus works well with a buffer tank, an active tank and spider tanking. The active tank bonus is also useless when the ship is used in larger than very small scale PvP whereas the resist bonus is useful as either a buffer or a remote rep. Dropping a turret for a remote rep is not that big of a deal when it comes to it, In fact, in some instances we use dual RR fits on our megs's in my corp when in fleet BS fights. 9% per level to armour repair amount and remote repair recieved looks like it would work very well amongst the 3rd tier BS's (haven't checked the BC's yet) with some other tweaking of these ships stats ALL the 3rd teir BS's would bcome very useful, well rounded ships that can be used in small/large fleet engagements or solo. Lets change kinetic only bonus to regular dmg bonus on caldari missile ships.
Spugg Galdon	Posted - 2010.03.14 18:27:00 - [137] I'm confused Naiomi. Why have you asked for that in here? I also disagree, Caldari are the kinetic race. But we're going way off topic now
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.03.14 18:34:00 - [138] Originally by: Spugg Galdon I'm confused Naiomi. Why have you asked for that in here? I also disagree, Caldari are the kinetic race. But we're going way off topic now It is easy ,same argument as your post ,kinetic bonus is weaker than the regular dmg bonus,it limits those ships where kinetic is heavily resisted same way as active bonus does within fleets see similar :D


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