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LiNuXb0y
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2010.02.08 01:53:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Aka5ha show me a Rokh fit that can do the same thing as a drake... I personally despise missles, as caldari its bad enough the ships weapons are split 50/50. I train for blasters, and all I get is a crappy optimal, which missle boats get and they get DPS bonuses.
Amarr has a dps BS, gal and min both have one. wtf dont caldari have one. oh yea its missles /facepalm
So what, a torp raven doing 1.1k dps is not good dps?
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.02.08 02:28:00 -
[62]
Something is always going to be the best in its class. That said, it is kind of ridiculous how crazy you can tank some BCs. It all comes down to the damage calculations, which are a bit dumb, and cause all sorts of odd behavior throughout the game.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2010.02.08 02:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Mirsal
In real life...
Gotta love arguments about internet spaceship games that start with the words "in real life." My sig don't fracking work. |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.08 03:55:00 -
[64]
I agree that a Drake can do at the same time 700+ dps and have 80K tank.
In order to do so, WTB lvl 5 Levi pilot with ship and a couple of ceptors for tackle to follow me around while I roam in my uberDrake...
Ship is just fine, stop whining. ------------ Railgun performance required fix: - +15% railgun damage modifier - +10% PG for Caldari railgun ships |
Mirsal
Amarr Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Mirsal
In real life...
Gotta love arguments about internet spaceship games that start with the words "in real life."
Out of context quoting for the lose. You're an idiot. ------- "Be not, oh Greeks, so very hostilely disposed towards the Barbarians, nor look with ill will on their opinions. For which of your institutions has not been derived from the Barbarians?" |
Mirsal
Amarr Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 08:07:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp I agree that a Drake can do at the same time 700+ dps and have 80K tank.
In order to do so, WTB lvl 5 Levi pilot with ship and a couple of ceptors for tackle to follow me around while I roam in my uberDrake...
Ship is just fine, stop whining.
It can do the above while still fitting mwd and scrambler.
And the skill of the pilot doesn't matter. You can pick any arbitrary level. It's just easier to compare the numbers between different ships and fittings if you assume maxed out relevant skills for all of them. You need maxed skills to get the 700 dps on the Drake, but you need all relevant skills at 5 to get the 900 or so dps that are possible with the Brutix, for example. Same for all the other high numbers that tend to get thrown around for other battlecruisers.
(Not that it is that difficult to max out all the relevant skills for flying the Drake, anyway.) ------- "Be not, oh Greeks, so very hostilely disposed towards the Barbarians, nor look with ill will on their opinions. For which of your institutions has not been derived from the Barbarians?" |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.02.08 09:24:00 -
[67]
It's like this thread fell through a time warp from two years ago, but got worse on the way.
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Leviathan Tank
The Order of Odin
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:47:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Gypsio III It's like this thread fell through a time warp from two years ago, but got worse on the way.
next topic: nerf titans area of damage cos my bs keep popping.
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Ryan Starwing
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:07:00 -
[69]
Just give the myrm back 5 heavy drones problem solved
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Gypsio III It's like this thread fell through a time warp from two years ago, but got worse on the way.
It never fails to fascinate me how people will bite on a troll who clearly and explicitly announces himself as such.
(Shame on you, Roemy. Shame. )
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:00:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ryan Starwing Just give the myrm back 5 heavy drones problem solved
Or even 4 would still be pretty nice. 100mbit seems a nice, moderate compromise.
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FlyinS
Caldari New Eden Redistribution
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:28:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Gypsio III It's like this thread fell through a time warp from two years ago, but got worse on the way.
It never fails to fascinate me how people will bite on a troll who clearly and explicitly announces himself as such.
(Shame on you, Roemy. Shame. )
Consider it kind of a tribute to a good troll, especially one clearly announced. You have to respect that.
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Ancy Denaries
The Confederate Navy
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Posted - 2010.02.08 16:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mr McFail ...battleships are pretty rubbish compared to the lower class ships, the only things they have going for them now is their dps, they fail at everything else.
My solo Nightmare disagrees. ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog
Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.02.08 16:58:00 -
[74]
Heh guess some of the newer folks don't remember just how deadly drakes USED to be with passive tanks when they were designed by Satan and Ferrari.
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Toterra
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:44:00 -
[75]
You know... it is a pity that there is no module or anything that can be used to turn off the invulnerability fields and other hardeners on a drake. If only there was some way of 'Nueting' the capacitor to offline those modules. But that is just crazy talk I know. Yup, people are right... the drake is completely invincible.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Pillow Fighters Inc
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:47:00 -
[76]
Problem with Drake is no conventional vulnerabilities.
People have mentioned the Myrmidon and Hurricane.
Mymidon has terrible blaster range and most of the dps is in its drones which can be destroyed, or terrible tracking with railguns and anyway its guns use capacitor.
Hurricane, sameish thing, terrible range or terrible tracking, less drawbacks then Myrmidon, but lacks the extra midslot to carry off the advantage properly, so it's a weaker tank that'll use speed to compensate.
Drake :
No tracking, 100+ km range, zero capacitor use, large shield regen with battleship level effective hitpoints.
The typical vulnerability with a big ship like a battlecruiser is you're afraid you're going to get caught dead while being orbited by a tackler out of range or out of your tracking ability, with only your drones to give you a chance.
The drake doesn't have this problem really, as an interceptor that's orbited a tackled drake at 5km/sec a few times, the only drakes that can't do enough damage to force you to break off are the ones with rubbish skills that didn't bring a decent selection of missiles.
No tech 2 cruiser and below or other tech 1 battlecruiser can take the drake 1v1, as it's got no attackable limited resource to bleed it to death like most ships, at best it's a stalemate.
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:48:00 -
[77]
I'm a Drake pilot because Drakes are truely overpowered. Why would I move on another ship?
if you take the latest QEN it says Drake is the most popular ship over New Eden, even more than Raven/CNR...
Its not only the awesome tank. Or the nice DPS for lvl4. Or how cheap it is... but also the extreme simplicity of missiles (dumb-proof), good range, no falloff, no capacitor usage... c'mon its obviously too easy to fly one of these
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Pillow Fighters Inc
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:31:00 -
[78]
Yeah, PvP Heavy Missile Drake killed the point in having a PvP Cruise missile Raven.
Old argument for that is, Cruise missiles aren't meant for pvp, they're for pve.
and to behonest I just laugh and roll my eyes at anyone who says any specific weapon system is only meant for one thing or another when it suits them.
As bad as the people who think that a Vulture's only purpose in life should be to passive tank level 5's.
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Daniel Cordova
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:37:00 -
[79]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Problem with Drake is no conventional vulnerabilities.
People have mentioned the Myrmidon and Hurricane.
Mymidon has terrible blaster range and most of the dps is in its drones which can be destroyed, or terrible tracking with railguns and anyway its guns use capacitor.
Hurricane, sameish thing, terrible range or terrible tracking, less drawbacks then Myrmidon, but lacks the extra midslot to carry off the advantage properly, so it's a weaker tank that'll use speed to compensate.
Drake :
No tracking, 100+ km range, zero capacitor use, large shield regen with battleship level effective hitpoints.
The typical vulnerability with a big ship like a battlecruiser is you're afraid you're going to get caught dead while being orbited by a tackler out of range or out of your tracking ability, with only your drones to give you a chance.
The drake doesn't have this problem really, as an interceptor that's orbited a tackled drake at 5km/sec a few times, the only drakes that can't do enough damage to force you to break off are the ones with rubbish skills that didn't bring a decent selection of missiles.
No tech 2 cruiser and below or other tech 1 battlecruiser can take the drake 1v1, as it's got no attackable limited resource to bleed it to death like most ships, at best it's a stalemate.
Ok, it's nice that you're now considering real and actual scenarios insteas of just EFT numbers. It's a pitty you're only doing it for the Hurricane and Myrm . "Myrm and Hurricane have horrible tracking, horrible this, horrible that..." So, since you accidentally forgot to mention the drawbacks for the Drake I'll do you the favor.
HAMs have horrendous explosion radius. They can't even hit standard cruisers for full damage.
HAMs have a range less than 18km and take longer to hit. For fast-orbitting targets they're damage is a little bit more mitigated.
Drakes have sigs larger than your standard battleship! That means they take a worse beating from battleships than any of the other BCs.
The Drake's DPS IS LOWER THAN the other Tier 2 BCs, in some cases by as much 200!
Drakes are the slowest and least agile of all the Tier 2 battlecruisers. They're practically sitting ducks, well, more like turtles because they do have a hard shell. But that IS what they're good for, taking a pounding.
When you compare the four Tier 2 battlecruisers you'll notice they all excel at something. And I can tell you that dealing DPS is NOT what the Drake excels at. The Hurricane probably takes the cake for that.
Anyway, I get the feeling the real reason for the cries to have it nerfed is simply because it can take a beating, not because it can dish one out. And if soemthing doesn't die to a gang in less than a minute then it must be overpowered . I'm out of here. Good luck with your whine crusade, as it seems this will be the whine of the month (year maybe?)
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:59:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Tom Peeping on 08/02/2010 19:01:32
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
I think the main problem lies with the Shield Extenders. With extended shields the recharge time of the shields stays the same, so shield extenders do not only give a HP bonus, but also a bonus to HP/s regeneration, thats stacks on top all regeneration Bonuses provided by other modules.
I do not see how the part in bold is true. I see how shield extenders not giving a slight negative to the recharge rate could be seen as slightly overpowered, but I do not see how that overpower translates to an actual bonus to the recharge rate.
Slade
Because the recharge rate doesnt change. If you have 1,000 hit points recharging in 100 seconds, you're regenerating at 10 per second. If you add more shields to 10,000 hit points recharging in 100 seconds, you now regenerate at 100 per second. Increasing your hit points and keeping the recharge rate the same, means both your total hit points AND the amount of HP recharged per second have improved. It's similar to cap and is basic to the concept of passive shield tanking. (oversimplified of course)
or maybe I misunderstood what you're asking about?
edit... just to be clear... not supporting OP's goal of nerfing drake
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Mika Cavillo
Ranni Bar and Grill
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:21:00 -
[81]
Quote: How often do you see a shield-tanked myrm or cane? Exactly
I fly one, my hanger is full of FAIL setups.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:28:00 -
[82]
YES!!! Nerf Drake!!!
But boost the NH!!! ________________________________________________
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Miati Leekon
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:33:00 -
[83]
Why is it always nerf? Just rebalance the BS up to their proper role. They nerfed ravens for other reasons not pve ones as I understand. They should look to other issues instead of taking shortcuts and ruining pve play.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Big Pimpin EFT Warrior
Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
In terms of PvP:
The Drake is indeed a great ship. 103K EHP, 420-615 DPS depending on your ammo selection, and only costs 22M after insurance. Hands down the best bang for your buck ship with a balanced DPS/EHP setup. Plus noone ever primaries a Drake.
BUT.
I also have 100K EHP, ~500 DPS setups for the Myrmidon, Hurricane, Ferox, & Harbinger. Of which, I'd say the Harbinger & Hurricane outperform the Drake in terms of PvP.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:52:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Daniel Cordova
Drakes have sigs larger than your standard battleship! That means they take a worse beating from battleships than any of the other BCs.
Drakes will have larger sigs than Typhoons, but not any other BS's AFAIK.
Originally by: Daniel Cordova
Drakes are the slowest and least agile of all the Tier 2 battlecruisers. They're practically sitting ducks, well, more like turtles because they do have a hard shell. But that IS what they're good for, taking a pounding.
Wot? You mean those battlecruisers with plates and trimarks?
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Daniel Cordova
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:13:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Daniel Cordova on 08/02/2010 21:14:35
Originally by: James Tritanius Drakes will have larger sigs than Typhoons, but not any other BS's AFAIK.
The "overpowered Drake" is the one with the LSEs. Check the sig radius on those and come back with the full story.
Coincidentally, you can't load the Drake with LSEs then claim how good it passive tanks and then take the LSEs out to claim it doesn't have a large sig radius. If we're going to talk about how uber a passive-tanked Drake is let's talk about its drawbacks when it's passive-tanked as well. Your arguments are deceitful.
Originally by: James Tritanius Wot? You mean those battlecruisers with plates and trimarks?
Again, what you're doing here is dressing up the Drake to its max potential to prove how overpowered it is and dressing down the other BC's to prove how not so overpowered they are .
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:21:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Daniel Cordova Edited by: Daniel Cordova on 08/02/2010 21:14:35
Originally by: James Tritanius Drakes will have larger sigs than Typhoons, but not any other BS's AFAIK.
The "overpowered Drake" is the one with the LSEs. Check the sig radius on those and come back with the full story.
Coincidentally, you can't load the Drake with LSEs then claim how good it passive tanks and then take the LSEs out to claim it doesn't have a large sig radius. If we're going to talk about how uber a passive-tanked Drake is let's talk about its drawbacks when it's passive-tanked as well. Your arguments are deceitful.
Originally by: James Tritanius Wot? You mean those battlecruisers with plates and trimarks?
Again, what you're doing here is dressing up the Drake to its max potential to prove how overpowered it is and dressing down the other BC's to prove how not so overpowered they are .
Sir... I don't have to do your homework for you. If you claim that Drakes have higher sig radius than most BS's, I don't have to load up EFT myself. It is your responsibly to support your claim. My first impression is that, even with LSEs (1-2), only Typhoons will have a lower sig radius. However, I could be wrong, but you have to demonstrate it.
Are you serious about your second point though? Because all of the other tier 2 BCs are usually armor tanked and they usually sport trimarks and plates. People sometimes shield tank canes and myrms as well, but that makes their sig radius bloom, which renders your first point moot.
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Whimsical One
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:35:00 -
[88]
ITT: people who don't know how to pulse MWD from outside scram range to reduce missile DPS.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:52:00 -
[89]
Originally by: James Tritanius
Sir... I don't have to do your homework for you. If you claim that Drakes have higher sig radius than most BS's, I don't have to load up EFT myself. It is your responsibly to support your claim. My first impression is that, even with LSEs (1-2), only Typhoons will have a lower sig radius. However, I could be wrong, but you have to demonstrate it.
Are you serious about your second point though? Because all of the other tier 2 BCs are usually armor tanked and they usually sport trimarks and plates. People sometimes shield tank canes and myrms as well, but that makes their sig radius bloom, which renders your first point moot.
You forgot shield rigs. Fury heavy missiles (which are much cheaper than faction) blow up sig radius also. It may not be higher than most BS, but it's close enough.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:53:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Darius Talon Edited by: Darius Talon on 07/02/2010 11:46:33 True though. I have seen a Drake put the hurt on Sleepers that a BS cant. I am not calling for a nerf by any means, otherwise I would not be training for the Drake myself. It appears to be the best and cheapest ship for missions, etc.
No Yabba, I havent. I should look into those ship setups.
Seems to me heavy missiles/heavy assault from a Drake would take longer to down groups of battleships than Cruise missiles from let's say a Raven or CNR.
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