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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tamahra on 09/02/2010 15:32:02
at least the one and only solution which will make ALL sides on the fence happy. Its just that the part with the fence and the happiness didnt fit in the title of the thread because of limited letters.
ok but here goes:
one word: true tech2 destroyers.
as has been suggested a zillion times before, and as has been considered by ccp to implement.
Face it: within each ship class, T2 is superior to T1 and Faction is superior to T2. Not only does this apply for the performance, but also for the price.
Its only that there needs to be an effective counter in the game for all types of ship classes. And now since the faction frigats got so much love, its about time for tech 2 destroyers to hit tranquility.
Period.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:32:00 -
[2]
Unperiod...
Isn't that really a solution to "the frigate issue"? Since you'd be able to blow up Taranises, Rifters, and the like just as well?
Doesn't sound like it'd do anything to balance within the frigate class at all, just make them more useless on the whole.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Seriously Bored Unperiod...
Isn't that really a solution to "the frigate issue"? Since you'd be able to blow up Taranises, Rifters, and the like just as well?
Doesn't sound like it'd do anything to balance within the frigate class at all, just make them more useless on the whole.
still period. The key here is the full sig radius penalty that faction frigates get from MWD. For Interceptors this isnt the case. And this must be the key in designing the t2 destroyers
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:40:00 -
[4]
How about Tier 2 destroyers first. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Last Wolf How about Tier 2 destroyers first.
this gets me onto something: How about Faction Destroyers? They would be expensive, they would be easy to lose them, but they could tear faction frigates apart.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:47:00 -
[6]
Sign me up for a ten-light-drones-deployed mini Myr.
On topic, the Dramiel is not a 'problem'. If anything, nerf its drone capabilities and/or its speed slightly. But a 70m uninsurable faction frig that isn't a piece of sh*t does not warrant 42 zomgnerfbecausemyraniscandie posts.
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Viibl Triibl
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:48:00 -
[7]
Pretty sure this isn't the solution.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:48:00 -
[8]
\o/ Another D(r)amn Thread \o/
Just un-nerf the interdictors and make them gunboats like the Sabre, slap on a 90% web bonus thingie .. mission accomplished.
But lets see what you are asking: - Introduce an entire line of ships to act as a counter to a single OP hull while utterly demolishing any semblance of balance in the light class in the process, or - Tweak the OP hull to open up the field a bit more ..
If you were a Dev, which option would you choose?
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Gammon Pounder
Divine Retribution Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:55:00 -
[9]
humm
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tamahra on 09/02/2010 15:56:15
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida \o/ Another D(r)amn Thread \o/
Just un-nerf the interdictors and make them gunboats like the Sabre, slap on a 90% web bonus thingie .. mission accomplished.
But lets see what you are asking: - Introduce an entire line of ships to act as a counter to a single OP hull while utterly demolishing any semblance of balance in the light class in the process, or - Tweak the OP hull to open up the field a bit more ..
If you were a Dev, which option would you choose?
its not counter to a single hull. t2 destroyers have been long since asked for, and also considered by the devs.
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Sabre Wulf
Divine Retribution Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 15:56:00 -
[11]
hmm
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tamahra its not counter to a single hull. t2 destroyers have been long since asked for, and also considered by the devs.
If you are serious then edit the thread title and content of post to properly reflect it. You essentially said that you wanted a T2 destroyer to counter the Dram instead of changing it, I merely responded to what you said
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Atari Sakura
Minmatar Monolithic. Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tamahra Edited by: Tamahra on 09/02/2010 15:32:02 one word: true tech2 destroyers. Period.
That's three words, and a number. ---
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch TriMark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Tamahra its not counter to a single hull. t2 destroyers have been long since asked for, and also considered by the devs.
If you are serious then edit the thread title and content of post to properly reflect it. You essentially said that you wanted a T2 destroyer to counter the Dram instead of changing it, I merely responded to what you said
but then again, even if the idea of true tech2 or even tier2 destroyers exists since a long time, now would be the perfect time to introduce them. thats why they are also directly related to the dramiel issue
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Kapse Locke
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.09 17:14:00 -
[15]
Pretty sure that one viable solution is ... HTFU.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.02.09 17:20:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 09/02/2010 17:26:07 The easy yet tired, uninspiring and completely unoriginal answer would be to bump AF's up to Destroyer hulls and give EAS CovOps cloaks.
I'm not saying that is something i would prefer over interesting ideas, that boost those ships to create counters and balance, such as AB bonuses or different cloak bonuses than "CovOps for everyone". It is the simple fix though.
AF's already behave quite alot like Destroyers (roles, speed, signature and cap stability etc.), yet lack the necessary bite a couple of extra slots would provide. As it stands an AF basicly trade speed, sig, cap stability and slots over for the ability (and near necessity) to "dual prop". If you look at what a given AF get over a combat Interceptor it's roughly an extra slot to put your AB in, so you can sig tank and stay cap stable like the Inty itself. It's not more survivable or do more damage, but if you bump it up to a Destroyer hull you get the extra slots and volume to push damage and tank over the Inty and make a fair trade for the speed.
The Inties can maintain their role through that. You already have good counters, like the Vagabond, and i highly doubt Assault Destroyers would obsolete the Inties more than a Vagabond or Huginn already do. While it doesn't risk to obsolete fast HACs or Recons either, as they would be quite capable of dealing with the new destroyers. The only thing risk being left in the dirt, and made (even more-) obsolete, are the EAS; so they need a change of their own - but for AF's i see only positive things comming from actually removing AF and simply reintroducing them as AD. No need for new models or tiers, the Destroyer models are hot and not too frequently seen to make an extra class of ships using them boring (eg., you already have three ships for each Inty model).
As for the EAS, i have no good idea to offer at the moment and that's mainly why i'm bringing up the cloaks. It would indirectly affect BOps gangs as a major limiting factor to them atm. is the fuel consumed Recons. Bridging Bombers is usually never a problem and that's where EAS would naturally come in, to throw some diversity into Bomber gangs and take over (or at least compete with-) the current role of Recons in them. In that sense it would be a good change, if albeit a bit unimaginative.
ps. I've said alot of this before, but since the discussion still rages i'll keep inferring the arguments .
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.02.09 17:29:00 -
[17]
Boost Rapier/Huginn: Web strength bonus instead of silly gun bonus. Nearly everyone can fly those ships by now so it would be a much better and easier fix than creating a whole new anti-frig platform.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.09 18:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zeba
Boost Rapier/Huginn: Web strength bonus instead of silly gun bonus. Nearly everyone can fly those ships by now so it would be a much better and easier fix than creating a whole new anti-frig platform.
QFT And dont forget about curse.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.02.09 20:44:00 -
[19]
TBH the complaining about the dramiel, for now at least, is useless. Wait until CCP fixes AFs, rockets, and introduces t3 frigs before deciding that the dram needs a nerf.
That being said, here's hoping that if they do nerf it the nerf comes in the form of less drone space :) |
Destroperuk
Auctoritas Fleet Auctoritas Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.09 21:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Noisrevbus give EAS CovOps cloaks.
This is an excellent, yet simple fix to the EAS issue. This would solve a lot of problems with EASs and make them get used more as a whole, without unbalancing them.
The only problem I see with this proposal is that it would sort of take a niche away from the "normal" CovOps as the frig size cloaker, so this will likely have to be dealt with, but other than that the idea is nothing short of brilliant.
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Xavier Maroquin
Dvice Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.02.09 21:38:00 -
[21]
Nerf the Dram. No need to create a whole new anti one ship class made specifically to counter a SINGLE FREAKIN SHIP! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yo Mama is so fat, Yo Father had to drop a cyno to take her shopping. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.09 23:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin Nerf the Dram. No need to create a whole new anti one ship class made specifically to counter a SINGLE FREAKIN SHIP!
I think the title was only for attention...his desire for T2 Destroyers has nothing to do with the Dramiel beside it being a small friggy thing that would get shot at like all other small friggy things.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.02.09 23:16:00 -
[23]
The only Dramiel "issue" are people issuing liquid into their pants over it.
-- He said "The President is near."
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.02.10 01:59:00 -
[24]
t1 destroyer rips them apart already... dont need anything t2 for it ;) even a pure t1 fit cruiser does it... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Hoodat Bee
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Posted - 2010.02.10 02:49:00 -
[25]
Is this the thread for discussing periods?
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Mr Jitaman
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Posted - 2010.02.10 04:01:00 -
[26]
SEBO + Energy Neuts = win?
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Watson Desecond
AC-Brotherhood DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.02.11 12:31:00 -
[27]
Only solution? buy a dramiel yourself and every1 stop complaining.
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Caleb Fury
Amarr Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2010.02.11 18:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Watson Desecond Only solution? buy a dramiel yourself and every1 stop complaining.
Wouldn't that be the same issue as the Falcon pre-nerf? "Don't like it? Bring your own Falcon." Also similar to pre-nanonerf where you had to fly a nano ship to even contend.
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Fafnir Drake
Gallente Boob Heads Vivisection.
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Posted - 2010.02.11 18:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Caleb Fury
Originally by: Watson Desecond Only solution? buy a dramiel yourself and every1 stop complaining.
Wouldn't that be the same issue as the Falcon pre-nerf? "Don't like it? Bring your own Falcon." Also similar to pre-nanonerf where you had to fly a nano ship to even contend.
Or fly RR BS gangs. Which couldn't kill nano gangs, but could force them off. Until they brought a bigger blob.
I swear I saw a 200 man roaming nano fleet once. ------ "Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure." |
Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.11 19:49:00 -
[30]
Just increase the price of the Dramiel... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
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