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Shabitz	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Shabitz on 10/02/2010 21:28:21 Check this out, I haven't read the whole review but look at the last link at the bottom of the article ... It would be a fairly compelling game! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/4006/page/2 lol great stuff.

CCP Adida	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:39:00 - [2] Moved topic from General to Out of Pod Adida Adida Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Aggelos Theristes	Posted - 2010.02.10 21:54:00 - [3] haha, nice plug the reviewer gave Eve at the end. :)
Kyra Felann Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.10 22:01:00 - [4] lol Awesome!
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.02.11 03:17:00 - [5] Epic, you know that guy plays eve.
FlameGlow Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.11 15:11:00 - [6] never paid attention to STO, but by review it sounds like it is wow in space, amirite? _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Yakoff Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.02.11 15:50:00 - [7] A rick rolled Starship? Who would have thunked it. ___ It deosnt mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, olny taht the frist and lsat leettr be in the rghit pclae. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef.
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 17:00:00 - [8] Originally by: FlameGlow never paid attention to STO, but by review it sounds like it is wow in space whit mall, amirite? fixed and C Signature removed, it needs to be more EVE related. Zymurgist dude u get a ship in game named crow and my sig have crows
David Grogan Gallente Final Conflict UK Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:09:00 - [9] STO = Hello Space Kitty Online nuff said SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:51:00 - [10] Loving STO right now, space combat is far more tactical then Eve and PvE content is far better then Eve. Ground combat is sort of like wow in a space setting but space combat is nothing like wow. Graphically the space part of the game looks way better then Eve. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.02.12 14:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Pottsey Loving STO right now, space combat is far more tactical then Eve and PvE content is far better then Eve. Ground combat is sort of like wow in a space setting but space combat is nothing like wow. Graphically the space part of the game looks way better then Eve. I agree partly, but the price they had to pay for it is just too great for me. It would have made a nice single player game though
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.02.12 16:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Pottsey Loving STO right now, space combat is far more tactical then Eve... Because having 4 (or more?) buttons for a shield booster is better than 1? How about range and/or tracking considerations? Scanning for your target? Interdiction? Setup trade-offs? ...
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.12 17:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Pottsey Loving STO right now, space combat is far more tactical then Eve and PvE content is far better then Eve. Ground combat is sort of like wow in a space setting but space combat is nothing like wow. Graphically the space part of the game looks way better then Eve. GB2STO Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.12 17:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Pottsey on 12/02/2010 17:57:26 Razin said "Because having 4 (or more?) buttons for a shield booster is better than 1? How about range and/or tracking considerations? Scanning for your target? Interdiction? Setup trade-offs?" You have tracking of sorts as speed effects how weapons hit or miss. Range matters as different weapons have different damage falloff over range.You have weapon archs so position of your ship matters more then position of ships in Eve. This is further compounded as in STO you have shields archs as well as weapon archs and people can shift power between each shield arch not just heal shields. You also have a powergrid that you can change while in combat. Shift power between shields, weapons, aux or engines far more tactical flexibility then Eve. It creates situations where you have broadside ships, forward firing focus ships and many others. There are Setup trade-offs as well. You have Interdiction with tractor beams, jamming sensors and many other ways. Not only is there Eve like EW like like energy drain but you have added stuff like Mask Energy Signature to Reduces the chance for enemies to detect you, Polarize Hull to Reduces energy damage blocks tractor beams, Feedback Pulse so Energy weapon damage is partially reflected back and many others. You can Launches shuttles with crew on board to disable parts of other ships, overload weapons for massive damage but knock the weapon system offline, extend your shields over an ally. Things like torpedoes have multiple ways of use like Torpedo: High Yield for a single hard hitting torp or Torpedo: Spread for well you can guess. Did I mention you have sub system targeting? You can knock out shields, engines; Beam some of your crew aboard a friend ships to heal the hull. You have real hit and run cloaking, use mines and the list goes on and on. All in all and with all the stuff I missed, I stand by what I said in that STO combat is way more tactical then Eve. EDIT: Not only do you level up yourself but your bridge crew level up with different skills. Again more tactical then Eve. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:57:00 - [15] Is all of that applicable to STO PVP? ...
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.12 22:24:00 - [16] Yes as far as I know, although I have not tried all that out myself. There are different types of PvP, you have normal PvP, PvP arena's and PvE missions with the two sides doing PvP or trying to get diffrent objectives. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Ceyna Lakise Gallente Spartan Shipyards	Posted - 2010.02.13 07:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Pottsey Again more tactical then Eve. From all I have seen of the combat game play in space and on the ground, not nearly as tactical...are you sure you actually play EVE? Run up and beat on the other guy and don't turn your weak side to him is about all I see from it. It's WoW in space, it really is.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.13 09:57:00 - [18] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/02/2010 10:00:12 Ceyna Lakise said "From all I have seen of the combat game play in space and on the ground, not nearly as tactical...are you sure you actually play EVE? Run up and beat on the other guy and don't turn your weak side to him is about all I see from it. It's WoW in space, it really is." What you said about STO is like saying Eve is just go to optimal range, click fire weapon, remember to press heal button and wait till target dead, repeat for next target. I won't deny STO ground combat is WoW ish and I am not that keen on ground combat. But STO space combat is very tactical. Its tactics that allow me to be 10 levels lower with much worse weapons still come in the top 5 in fleet actions. Sure perhaps some of the easy bog standard missions in STO are "Run up and beat on the other guy and don't turn your weak side to him." But that's just the same as Eve's bog standard missions. Go look up STO Fleet actions. Run up and beat on the other guy and don't turn your weak side to him will get you very dead, very fast. Fleet actions PvE don't only require tactical ability but you sometimes have two teams. The Federation players and Klingon players both trying to complete different objectives and both trying to hinder the other side. All the while there are groups of NPC's flying around. Yes I am sure I played Eve, I live in a Class 6 wormhole which needs less tactics to survive in then STO. Been in alliance wars, 0.0, done PvE the lot. Take the Crystal Entity Fleet action in STO. 5 people with good tactical abilities can do it. 10, 50 or even 100 people who just run in and beat on it and not turning to the weak side will find it impossible to do. Eve PvE is so simple compared to Fleet actions PvE in STO. The tactical options in STO fights vastly out match Eve's tactical options. In STO you can do all sorts from target sub systems, send boarding party over to other ships, overload weapons, choose weapon spreads and attack patterns and way more. From a pure combat ship fighting point of few there are very few tactical options in Eve that you cannot do in STO. There are lots of STO tactical options that you cannot do in Eve. Eve PvE is more WoW in space then STO PvE. STO PvP and Fleet actions PvE is far more then just fly and in shoot. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Digital Solaris Caldari	Posted - 2010.02.13 14:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Pottsey The tactical options in STO fights vastly out match Eve's tactical options. In STO you can do all sorts from target sub systems, send boarding party over to other ships, overload weapons, choose weapon spreads and attack patterns and way more. From a pure combat ship fighting point of few there are very few tactical options in Eve that you cannot do in STO. There are lots of STO tactical options that you cannot do in Eve. Eve PvE is more WoW in space then STO PvE. STO PvP and Fleet actions PvE is far more then just fly and in shoot. Your description of tactical options looks more like a brief overview over the star trek equivalent of your typical spellbook in fantasy MMOs than actual tactics. The only difference is that you can use your "tactical abilities" in PvE as well as in PVP which leaves little room for a player, like you, to develop your own when the tactical options are already established by the developers. So indeed, STO is poor WoW clone in space. Happy to **** on your parade.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.02.13 16:11:00 - [20] Too bad the complete lack of any death penalty makes all that tactical "depth" irrelevant. Why bother with complicated tactics when you can just run up and gank something, then respawn and do it again once you get overwhelmed? PS: buy the Starfleet Command games instead. STO is just a dumbed-down version of SFC with a monthly fee. -----------
Leaving Eve Boo Hoo Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 16:23:00 - [21] The lack of trial is kinda a deal breaker for me. I'm not going to pay up front for something I will likely hate. I didn't get into the beta, so I guess its just another game for me to ignore.
M'ktakh	Posted - 2010.02.13 18:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Leaving Eve The lack of trial is kinda a deal breaker for me. I'm not going to pay up front for something I will likely hate. I didn't get into the beta, so I guess its just another game for me to ignore. Nothing lost, mate. As Merin wrote, get SFC, and be happy. Hell, get Bridge Commander, even. They are only a few bucks/gigabytes away.
Zions Child Caldari Carthage Industries Consortium.	Posted - 2010.02.13 18:23:00 - [23] Bridge Commander = best star trek game I've ever played... If you download the Kobayashi Maru mod for it it adds a whole new realm of star trek realism too it _________________________________________________________________ Wrong! - Cortes YES! I HAD MY SIG EDITED! DEVS FTW!
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.02.13 19:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Too bad the complete lack of any death penalty makes all that tactical "depth" irrelevant. Why bother with complicated tactics when you can just run up and gank something, then respawn and do it again once you get overwhelmed? PS: buy the Starfleet Command games instead. STO is just a dumbed-down version of SFC with a monthly fee. Well in all honesty it isn't just a dumbed down version of SFC. It is a hybrid of SFC and WoW. Basicly your standard fantasy MMO battlesystem tied to a watered down version of SFC. I think the fantasy MMO element is actually stronger, since they changed things like tractor beams from being abilities freely used by ships and made them in to special abilities with cooldown times. You can't even fire your torpedo launchers at the same time, since fring one puts the rest of them on a global cooldown . FFS even some of the people playing STO call their special abilities spells. The power management, weapon arcs, mines and shield systems are from SFC, but they should have used SFC more heavily in the combat system. At minimum they could have copied the weapon range system it used. The only reason I can think for the silly weapon ranges is, that they wanted the combat to look good instead of being more tactical. Well it does look good, but also makes it needlesly stale, and looks aren't enough in the long term. As it is now STO isn't a good game and you can expect the word "potential" to be used a lot by people who want to show the current STO it in a positive light. It has some nice features, but they aren't that unique and won't be enough to carry the game for long. The content that a theme park MMO needs to survive just isn't there at the moment.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2010.02.13 20:09:00 - [25] My review of Star Trek Online - it is ****ing awesome. Unfortunately its awesomeness has takesn Cryptic by surprise and the servers can't handle the number of people who want to play it. At peak times, like now, it is as wobbly as an Eve cluster. I suppose I could play another internet spaceships game, but I will go shopping instead.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.13 20:22:00 - [26] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/02/2010 20:22:55 Digital Solaris said "Your description of tactical options looks more like a brief overview over the star trek equivalent of your typical spellbook in fantasy MMOs than actual tactics." So if I list sensor jamming in STO its equivalent of your typical spellbook in fantasy MMOs But if I say sensor jamming in Eve its tactical. So if I list energy drain in STO its equivalent of your typical spellbook in fantasy MMOs But if I say energy drain in Eve its tactical. Why is it a typical spellbook fantasy MMOs in STO but not classed as typical spellbook fantasy in Eve? Surly if your classing that stuff I listed as typical spellbook fantasy MMOs then Eve is a typical spellbook fantasy MMOs? Digital Solaris said " The only difference is that you can use your "tactical abilities" in PvE as well as in PVP which leaves little room for a player, like you, to develop your own when the tactical options" What rubbish. For example one tactical method I came up with is to put full power to engines get point blank to the target, engage tractor beams then energy divert 75% of powergrid frm engines and 50% powergrid from shields to weapons. This is powergrid management not to be confused with energy cap which also needs to be managed. You seem to be under the false impression STO space combat is click spell book abilities and wait. STO is 100x less point and click and wait then Eve combat. So if STO combat is Wow like then Eve is way more Wow like then STO. I dont see how you can say STO is Wow like when Eve combat is even more Wow like then STO. STO combat is way more fluid then Eve's point and click abilities on the spell book bar. In STO the position of ship, weapon archs and shields archs and power management matter. In eve all you do is click spell book like abilities in the icon bar with no worry about weapon archs, shield archs and no real worry about powergrid management. I mean powergrid management during combat, not cap management. Both games have cap management but STO also has power grid management for further tactical options. Eve combat is just simple you do not have to worry about subsystems being hit, broading partys or many other things. As for PvE well STO just walks all over Eve in that area. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.02.14 04:03:00 - [27] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 14/02/2010 04:04:39 Originally by: Pottsey What rubbish. For example one tactical method I came up with is to put full power to engines get point blank to the target, engage tractor beams then energy divert 75% of powergrid frm engines and 50% powergrid from shields to weapons. This is powergrid management not to be confused with energy cap which also needs to be managed. So how exactly is this different from EVE's "MWD up close, activate web/scram, activate blasters once they stop moving"? Is it somehow more "tactical" if it's called a tractor beam instead of a web, and you divert powergrid rather than using capacitor? Quote: STO combat is way more fluid then Eve's point and click abilities on the spell book bar. In STO the position of ship, weapon archs and shields archs and power management matter. No they don't, because every ship has the same weapon arcs. You constantly turn 360* to fire your front weapons, then your back weapons, then your front weapons, etc, while spreading out damage on all four shield arcs. Unless you're a complete moron, getting your weapons on target in STO requires absolutely zero skill. In fact, EVE's system is far superior, as it removes the constant mindless clicking of the fire and turn buttons and just puts your guns on auto-fire. Quote: Eve combat is just simple you do not have to worry about subsystems being hit, boarding partys or many other things not to mention only 4 damage types in Eve. As for PvE well STO just walks all over Eve in that area. You don't have to worry about any of those things in STO because there is *zero death penalty.* Subsystem destroyed? Who cares, just suicide your ship and respawn with a new one. Didn't bring the right damage type? Who cares, just suicide your ship, respawn with a new one, and switch to the appropriate damage type. But the huge thing that STO leaves out is the strategy that happens outside a fight in EVE. For example, the thrill of flying 50 jumps into hostile space, dodging gatecamps and enemy fleets while trying to kill as much as possible. Is that Drake in a belt a carebear or a bait ship with a cyno and 50 capitals on standby? Should you and your friend bring Vagabonds to maximize GTFO ability, or Megathrons to ensure that you will always have the dps for a quick and easy gank? You've put your target into hull and he's agreed to the ransom demand, but is he slow in transferring the cash because he's stalling until his friends arrive, or because he's a clueless newbie who can't figure it out? Compare to STO: see that Klingon battleship flying right through the middle of Federation space? Better hope he decides to enter one of the PvP arenas (fair and balanced and by consent only, of course) because if he doesn't, all you can do is smacktalk him in local. And even if you did get him into an arena and kill him, who cares, he'll just respawn 15 seconds later and go right back to whatever he was doing. -----------
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2010.02.14 06:06:00 - [28] Edited by: Banana Torres on 14/02/2010 06:06:11 Originally by: Merin Ryskin In fact, EVE's system is far superior, as it removes the constant mindless clicking of the fire and turn buttons and just puts your guns on auto-fire. Now I hope all you interceptor pilots have read and taken in what Merin has just said. Thats right, you are doing it wrong, forget manually flying your ships and just orbit.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.14 10:11:00 - [29] Merin Ryskin said "So how exactly is this different from EVE's "MWD up close, activate web/scram, activate blasters once they stop moving"? Is it somehow more "tactical" if it's called a tractor beam instead of a web, and you divert powergrid rather than using capacitor?" You still have capacitor but you also adjust powergrid. Shotting an energy beam takes up 10 cap. But you also have powergrid management without counting all the extra stuff to keep this simple each ship has 200 powergrid. You place this powergrid between the 5 core systems. At 50 powergrid all stuff runs at base module stats not counting skills to keep this simple. So if I shift 25 powergrid from engines putting me down from 50 to 25 engine powergrid and put that 25 powergrid onto weapons, my weapons powergrid goes up to 75 so my weapons are doing 50% more DPS but I lose power in engines so my max speed and turn rate goe down a lot. The more powergrid you give engines the higher the max speed. The more powergrid you give shields the higher shield recharge and so on. So you don't just balance cap you also balance powergrid for more tactical options. Not only do you need enough cap recharge to keep weapons firing but how much powergrid do you want to give weapons and what do you want to lose in exchange. Merin Ryskin said " No they don't, because every ship has the same weapon arcs. You constantly turn 360* to fire your front weapons, then your back weapons, then your front weapons, etc, while spreading out damage on all four shield arcs. Unless you're a complete moron, getting your weapons on target in STO requires absolutely zero skill." Clearly you never played the game or never played past the starter ship. Only someone who is clueless about the game would say getting your weapons on target in STO requires absolutely zero skill. What you just said would completely fail to work on my ship. You do know don't you that different ships are different! I fly big heavy cruisers that cannot constantly turn 360* to fire front weapons. The way I setup my ships it takes them over 1 min to turn 360. By the time I face the target it's moved. I tend to run big low agile ships with very low powergrid on engines so due to slow speed I have to really think about how to spread out shield damage and weapon archs. I have to guess where a group of ship will move to. Unlike Eve a smart fast agile ship can keep outside of my weapons archs. Merin Ryskin " You don't have to worry about any of those things in STO because there is zero death penalty. Subsystem destroyed? Who cares, just suicide your ship and respawn with a new one. Didn't bring the right damage type? Who cares, just suicide your ship, respawn with a new one, and switch to the appropriate damage type." Clearly you are clueless to the game. If you did the above you would fail and lose the fleet action or missions. In Eve you can never really fail in PvE just come back again. In STO you can fail missions and fleet actions. In STO your ship dies you lose crew which lowers your ship performance so there is a death penalty. Suicide your ship and you die now the enemy fleet is free to complete the objective as you're no longer there to stop them. Perhaps in PvE you died so the enemy fleet blow up the ship you where guarding. Or in Fleet actions the enemy players achieved there target as your ship was destroyed so you where not in the area to stop them. You cannot just suicide your ship. Death does matter as you are no longer in the area you need to be. Some enemy even benefit from your dead ship. The Crystal Entry will heal each time it kills you so death matters. Subsystem destroyed I just lost my engines and now cannot help complete the objective till its repaired. If I suicide I can no longer reach my target in time to stop him winning. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2010.02.14 10:25:00 - [30] Edited by: Pottsey on 14/02/2010 10:25:33 Merin Ryskin said " But the huge thing that STO leaves out is the strategy that happens outside a fight in EVE." I wasn't talking about strategy I was talking about tactics. I won't argue outside ship combat parts of Eve are more advanced then STO like the market. Yes if you want wide area strategy and want to worry about supple lines and stuff Eve is the game you should be playing. But if you're only interested in tactical combat fights without the wide area strategy then I am finding STO is more fun for that. What matters to me is challenge and ship tactics which are fun. Eve combat of click modules, wait, mission over is not as fun as STO. Eve is better in lots of ways but for pure quick ship combat I am loveing STO. STO space combat is not Wow like unless you are saying Eve combat is Wow like. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2

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