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Rycheck
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.02.11 12:24:00 -
[1]
After trying to use the market to buy more ammo for my ships and having to sort through all the crap thats been added to it like missiles for 1mill per, I came to the conclusion that it would be useful to be able to blacklist people on the market.
For example..
Person A adds ammo to the market for a nonsense price trying to scam someone.
Person B notices that Person A is a scammer and adds him to his blacklist.
Now person B will no longer see any items that have been added to the market by person A.
This isnt about trying to stop scamming using game mechanics. Its more about letting me use the market without having to sort through all the crap posted by these people.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.11 12:26:00 -
[2]
There's a little tab on the market where you can select various filters.
Like, oh, I don't know, for instance, to only show items between a certain percentage above or below market average ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.11 12:28:00 -
[3]
First of all, how do you scam someone by offering you goods at a lower price (or buying at a higher price)?
Second of all, in before "efficient market" speech by EyjoG. 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 12:36:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Rycheck
it would be useful to be able to blacklist people on the market.
I am all for giving us more information management tools (especially ones that help us deal with scammers). You should pop down to features and ideas with this.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:14:00 -
[5]
And then people can circumvent the transfer of assets from a trial account mechanic by blacklisting everyone but the trial account owner. Not a good idea. Besides, you don't know who set up the order until you make the purchase.
~
Soar Like a Penguin |
Merasa Tro
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Besides, you don't know who set up the order until you make the purchase.
Which is something I think they should change for some 'real market PVP'. If I'm at war with someone, I dont want to give them isk by buying thier products. Or maybe I want to buy stuff from my friends, at whatever the price, let me filter on who posted the order.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Besides, you don't know who set up the order until you make the purchase.
Which is an excellent reason for this idea. Without it we cannot avoid purchasing from scammers and enemies. I've always hated the fact that I end up buying materiel from the very people I'm at war with because I am forced to take the lowest priced item. Being able to filter them out of my market listing would be very, very nice.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rycheck
After trying to use the market to buy more ammo for my ships and having to sort through all the crap thats been added to it like missiles for 1mill per,
Umm, and why aren't you sorting the market orders by price?
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'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Besides, you don't know who set up the order until you make the purchase.
Which is an excellent reason for this idea. Without it we cannot avoid purchasing from scammers and enemies. I've always hated the fact that I end up buying materiel from the very people I'm at war with because I am forced to take the lowest priced item. Being able to filter them out of my market listing would be very, very nice.
If this happened, Jita would STOP.
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flakeys
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:40:00 -
[10]
Putting stuff way overpriced on the market is not scamming , it is called making a high profit.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
If this happened, Jita would STOP.
Why?
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Xar0
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:44:00 -
[12]
As already suggested, market filter.
Second - sort by price.
Third - no wait, that sorted the problem.
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Ivy Scorn
Amarr
Nethro Ore Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:50:00 -
[13]
This belongs into features and ideas - even though I don't see how anybody would find this useful. You can sort the market by price and you can filter orders that are way above average, in lowsec or too far away.
Quite frankly, the only person who can effectively scam you on the market is yourself - i.e. by setting up a buy order as 100000 instead of 1000.00
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Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:57:00 -
[14]
Having all the names of traders listed would kill a lot of the dynamism of trade warfare and give far too much dumbed down intel to people, thus killing an enjoyable element of the game.
Trade wars are fascinating things when you are involved deeper than .01 isking your small portfolio. It's a side of eve I don't like to talk about too much openly but there's a hell of a lot of espionage and backstabbing going on trust me 
~
Soar Like a Penguin |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 13:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ivy Scorn
I don't see how anybody would find this useful.
That's interesting since it was discussed in posts #6 and #7 of this very thread. This sort of filter would not ONLY be for scammers, it would allow us to make purchases based on other factors than simply price. In much the same way people "vote with their wallet" boycott WalMart or Nike or whomever based upon their policies or actions it would enable actual market PvP for the first time.
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Merasa Tro
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Posted - 2010.02.11 14:46:00 -
[16]
If the market did list who placed the orders... that char that keeps out bidding by 0.01 isk???.. War dec!!
Market PvP prompting real PvP
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Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.11 14:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merasa Tro
If the market did list who placed the orders... that char that keeps out bidding by 0.01 isk???.. War dec!!
Market PvP prompting real PvP
It's easy to determine the 0.1 iskers as it is 
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Soar Like a Penguin |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.11 14:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Merasa Tro
If the market did list who placed the orders... that char that keeps out bidding by 0.01 isk???.. War dec!!
Market PvP prompting real PvP
Just buy a single one of his items, right after he outbids you. Voila, the name.
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'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.02.11 15:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
If this happened, Jita would STOP.
Why?
Having to look up war details of 2 corps, in what is almost certainly a separate database table, for every market transaction everywhere might just put things a little bit out of whack. The market is highly optimised for speed, and for this exact reason the devs have already ruled out any such feature.
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34.4:1 mineral compression |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 15:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Having to look up war details of 2 corps, in what is almost certainly a separate database table, for every market transaction everywhere might just put things a little bit out of whack. The market is highly optimised for speed, and for this exact reason the devs have already ruled out any such feature.
Source for that?
Notice though that we weren't talking about automatically excluding war targets from market lists (which you seem to be talking about) but about a filter list manually maintained by the player, a list which I would think could be handled almost completely client-side.
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MrBinary
Minmatar
Binary Systems
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Posted - 2010.02.11 16:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Rycheck
After trying to use the market to buy more ammo for my ships and having to sort through all the crap thats been added to it like missiles for 1mill per,
Umm, and why aren't you sorting the market orders by price?
Winner! 
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.11 18:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
If this happened, Jita would STOP.
Why?
Because the current system is designed to provide the most efficient market possible – a market that in turn makes Jita possible. This idea has been proposed numerous times and has been instantly shot down on the grounds that it ruins the efficiency of the market.
There are already ways to wage market PvP, but the efficiency of the market forces them to be a bit more sophisticated than just pouting and sniffling "I'm not trading with you any more you meanie!" (which is basically what this idea entails). The actual problem the OP wants to solve was solved ages ago and we already have the tools required for it not to be a problem any more.
The claim that the system would solve scamming is… odd, and I'd like to see the kinds of scams the current market mechanics allow that the proposal would solve.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.02.11 18:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Because the current system is designed to provide the most efficient market possible ? a market that in turn makes Jita possible. This idea has been proposed numerous times and has been instantly shot down on the grounds that it ruins the efficiency of the market.
Ruins efficiency how exactly?
Originally by: Tippia
the efficiency of the market forces them to be a bit more sophisticated than just pouting and sniffling "I'm not trading with you any more you meanie!" (which is basically what this idea entails).
Ahh, it's so nice to see you address the idea without going the cheap route and just trying to belittle those you disagree with. Prat.
Originally by: Tippia
The actual problem the OP wants to solve was solved ages ago and we already have the tools required for it not to be a problem any more.
OK, explain. If I am purchasing from the market how do I choose to purchase from my allies if my enemies are offering the same item at 0.01isk less? How do I even know which is which on the market without buying?
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.11 19:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Ruins efficiency how exactly?
Ask the economists – I only do crisis management and decision-making...
From what I understand, though, the efficiency is this: as long as your wanted sell or buy price is met by someone else, your wares will be bought and sold. This suggestion would ruin that by allowing market orders not to be fulfilled asap, even though people are lining up to do so.
Quote:
Ahh, it's so nice to see you address the idea without going the cheap route and just trying to belittle those you disagree with.
I don't belittle them – I belittle the solution. Even so, isn't it an accurate description of what's proposed?
Quote:
OK, explain. If I am purchasing from the market how do I choose to purchase from my allies if my enemies are offering the same item at 0.01isk less? How do I even know which is which on the market without buying?
But that's not the problem the OP is trying to solve. He wants to sort out scammers and people who put up silly market orders (and I'd still like to see an example of how this can be done). The filters we have already let you do this.
Also, stop breaking the page, dammit! (Never mind that it was probably caused by my unicode character making your browser choke when you quoted my post.)
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.11 19:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Gladys Pank
Besides, you don't know who set up the order until you make the purchase.
Which is an excellent reason for this idea. Without it we cannot avoid purchasing from scammers and enemies. I've always hated the fact that I end up buying materiel from the very people I'm at war with because I am forced to take the lowest priced item. Being able to filter them out of my market listing would be very, very nice.
If this happened, Jita would STOP.
That may make for a few interesting developments. Not being able to decide who you buy from or do not buy from is a little immersion breaking. Yes you can always just make deals via contracts and/or station trade, but I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if this was actually the way it was.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.02.11 21:50:00 -
[26]
most of the people are using characters like you on market so you would not ever know who's actually selling the stuff.
also stop being plain stupid buying clearly overpriced stuff i think game already warns you like twice before you click ok.
also what you're talking about is not a scam. if you sell a missile for 1 million it clearly says the price. no one is really cheating you.
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WarlockX
Amarr
Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.11 23:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Having to look up war details of 2 corps, in what is almost certainly a separate database table, for every market transaction everywhere might just put things a little bit out of whack. The market is highly optimised for speed, and for this exact reason the devs have already ruled out any such feature.
Source for that?
Notice though that we weren't talking about automatically excluding war targets from market lists (which you seem to be talking about) but about a filter list manually maintained by the player, a list which I would think could be handled almost completely client-side.
You can think that all you want but you would be wrong. there's a million reasons why its a bad idea lets name a few.
You don't have the information without joining a second table. Which would crash jita.
The market does not let you choose who you want to buy from and that is by design. You can only buy from the lowest price , that's it. So you would need to rewrite the market code.
CCP has already stated many times they dont want players to be able to choose who they buy from. So this discussion is pointless even if I agreed with you.
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Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Phaese
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.11 23:52:00 -
[28]
Check out a dump file sometime of the market data for an item. This is what's inside:
price,volRemaining,typeID,range,orderID,volEntered,minVolume,bid,issued,duration,stationID,regionID,solarSystemID,jumps,
Note that none of those indicate the seller (orderID is just a pointer).
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.12 00:11:00 -
[29]
Quote:
OK, explain. If I am purchasing from the market how do I choose to purchase from my allies if my enemies are offering the same item at 0.01isk less? How do I even know which is which on the market without buying?
Two words: private contract.
The fact that you are too lazy to ensure that you only buy from your allies does not mean that it is impossible to do so.
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Sakrak
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Posted - 2010.02.12 00:15:00 -
[30]
There is one feature of the market that would make all of this moot. No matter what you pay for an item you are buying from the person at the station with the lowest price, just paying them more then they're asking. I believe this is to discourage market scams.
Try it buy something from the market not at the lowest station price, and see who actually gets the sale.
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