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Salvaging laws is totally ridiculous

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Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2010.02.16 15:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Paknac Queltel Originally by: Re Mmacs Whay are you bringing dogs into this? Now you are just trolling me trying. Its not the same thing, I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, if the dog is mine and you shoot the dog then I will have our efficient police on you and is the same if you shoot the dog in the porch and it is not at all the same thing with my neighbours house as my neighbour is not an npc so my way still makes sense comparisoned to yours. We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers No seriously dude, you're trying too hard. If you want people to bite on your trolls, try to be more realistic. I see you have missed the post directly above yours...sigh The only way to stop rubbish like this is to track the OP down and beat him to death with a trout (in game)
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.02.16 16:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Re Mmacs I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, <<snippage>> We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers Keep trying, keep trying... no, on second thought... Originally by: Larg Kellein Just on the off chance that this isn't trolling: Salvaging is currently working as intended. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.16 17:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa Originally by: Paknac Queltel No seriously dude, you're trying too hard. If you want people to bite on your trolls, try to be more realistic. I see you have missed the post directly above yours...sigh Yeah, he posted while I was replying. Once again, my faith in humanity is weakened. This is the punishment part of Crime & Punishment... Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa The only way to stop rubbish like this is to track the OP down and beat him to death with a trout (in game) This. Almost makes me wish posting-alts were required to spend time logged in and undocked.
Dariah Stardweller Gallente Gung-Ho	Posted - 2010.02.16 18:14:00 - [64] Ninja salvagers make missions more interesting, and I don¦t care about the salvage part realy, it¦s the looting of all the meta 4 items that ****es me off But good fun can be had with them. Like the time some idiot thought a myrmidon would make a good salvageboat. I let him slowboat to the wrecks for 40 km to shoot them all down just b4 he got in range. Ninja salvagers/loot thiefs are a part of eve that is not going away, deal with it en try to have some fun while dealing :)
Doctor Cal'torien Gallente The Vikings of the Black Sea	Posted - 2010.02.16 18:45:00 - [65] the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Originally by: Damien Grammaticus Feeding your cat Scrabble tiles and copying the poop would have created a more legible post.
Amneamnius Primary.	Posted - 2010.02.18 09:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious Salvagers are "Data and composition" scanners Salvage is technically regarded as INFORMATION. So a better analogy would be "cops wouldn't arrest you for taking pictures of a car wreck"
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.18 10:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Amneamnius Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious Salvagers are "Data and composition" scanners Salvage is technically regarded as INFORMATION. So a better analogy would be "cops wouldn't arrest you for taking pictures of a car wreck" Linking up to the car's computer systems might be looked at oddly, though. Cars are a bad choice for interweb smackship comparisons.
Earl Comstock Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.02.18 14:23:00 - [68] Perhaps Tom Cruise will save you with the witchcraft of central programming.
Palinurus Somnus	Posted - 2010.02.18 16:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Earl Comstock Perhaps Tom Cruise will save you with the witchcraft of central programming. Careful, Earl - last time HIS name was mentioned the thread was locked!
gtiness	Posted - 2010.02.18 16:30:00 - [70] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will **and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality The level of trolling - yes you heard me, trolling is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a troll, under a bridge, or even in space... then the Police will **and shoot this thing in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality --- Fixed that for you.
Tatanya Darkdawn Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.18 17:53:00 - [71] IMO the problem is not salvaging, or "ninja" salvaging. I mean, I think it's perfectly ok to salvage wrecks you find in space. I think the problem is that 2 day old chars can use combat scanner probes. I mean, why should a totally new player be able to use them really? Perhaps making combat probes T2 (or otherwise rising the skill reqs) would bar the really new (or trial account?) pilots from farming ISK and enhance the dedication needed for combat probing. This would leave new pilots quite free to go salvage rat wrecks at belts and more advanced "griefers" to scan down mission runners. But really, whatever.
JDawg1290	Posted - 2010.02.18 20:17:00 - [72] just find a system with 2 l4 agents, and get one to give you recon 3 of 3. when the salvagers start bugging you on the other missions, finish up, and then jump there in a well tanked ship. watch them go pop :)
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.18 21:25:00 - [73] Originally by: JDawg1290 just find a system with 2 l4 agents, and get one to give you recon 3 of 3. when the salvagers start bugging you on the other missions, finish up, and then jump there in a well tanked ship. watch them go pop :) Next stop: 30 alts jumping on your recon 3 of 3. it was rather funny the first couple of times.
Gwen Ingolffson	Posted - 2010.02.18 23:01:00 - [74] Originally by: Phoben Originally by: Max Powwer Do you guys think it would be better to treat wrecks as one item? If so, ownership would be all or nothing, which of course would open up a whole new debate :) again the cargo and the wreck are often 2 different things, someone may own the cargo and someone may own the ship. I'd like to see a trigger for ninja salvaging, you take from a wreck then you have say 2 hrs, to negotiate with the wreck owner for payment for salvage and loot, after which if no negotiated settlement is reached the parties are blinky red to each other for 36hrs. maybe needs a bit of work and not sure how to work out what fair price for salvage would be, maybe 75% of market value. I approve. It's too expensive to wardec people. With this I can steal their ** and then kill them and steal more of their **. :)
gurkabuddie	Posted - 2010.02.24 21:10:00 - [75] I am getting tired of ninja salvagers and a more worrying problem of mission raiders who deliberately provoke PVP by stealing from mission wreck. I would sujest that in missions ninja salvagers are attacked by mission ships and not allowed to freely fly around mission and salvage, also if player deliberately steals from mission wreckhe looses standing by the amount of standings he would gain if doing mission himself or herself. I recently got penalised by fed navy due to salvage thief, I took couple of shots at them to make them clear off, I warped out and they flew into next room, got warped and webbed, I was given the kill and as soon as I undocked was promptly popped by fed navy. I would say that if they wish to comit crime , they get penalised in some form
Kalibrated	Posted - 2010.02.24 22:18:00 - [76] It's not your salvage to begin with. the salvage belongs to who ever activated their equipment on the wreck. stop being a F-Tard
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.25 01:09:00 - [77] Originally by: gurkabuddie I am getting tired of ninja salvagers and a more worrying problem of mission raiders who deliberately provoke PVP by stealing from mission wreck. I would sujest that in missions ninja salvagers are attacked by mission ships and not allowed to freely fly around mission and salvage, also if player deliberately steals from mission wreckhe looses standing by the amount of standings he would gain if doing mission himself or herself. I recently got penalised by fed navy due to salvage thief, I took couple of shots at them to make them clear off, I warped out and they flew into next room, got warped and webbed, I was given the kill and as soon as I undocked was promptly popped by fed navy. I would say that if they wish to comit crime , they get penalised in some form Obviously they committed no crime. Shooting at an innocent ship, though...that's a crime.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.02.25 01:33:00 - [78] Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 25/02/2010 01:34:12 Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Edit: Oh, already been posted. Twice. Hah. Ah well, another copy for page 3. _____ 10/10: Where is your God now?
Aeternus IV	Posted - 2010.02.25 07:05:00 - [79] I love to ninja salvage. I spent a couple weeks perfecting my scanning ability and salvaging skills. So, some advice for ya, although it's been said a couple times. You don't want someone like me taking your stuff? Either Salvage as you go, have another player (friend/alt) salvaging, or blow your wrecks up. Some of the most fun I have is when I'm ninja salvaging and they bring in a friend to try and beat me to everything. That doesn't work. It actually makes it easier for the ninja, as all he has to do is follow the salvager. T2 salvager range + reduced cycle time = win. =D One other thing you could do, if you run into a noobly ninja. If you happen to be doing the mission with the Pleasure Hub in it... blow up the hub while he's close to it. I was actually salvaging for a friend and a ninja came in. My friend popped the Pleasure Hub without warning me, it insta popped the ninja and my rigged salvager. heh... at the time it was my most expensive ship.
Tian Nu	Posted - 2010.02.25 13:18:00 - [80] ninja salvage is good ! it helps CCP clean the wrecs and doing so the server lag less, long life to ninjas.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:11:00 - [81] What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:23:00 - [82] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? Station denies you docking rights.
Awesome Possum	Posted - 2010.02.25 16:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? You get banned for avoiding Concord. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.02.25 17:03:00 - [84] Wow this always makes me laugh. Primarily because I don't mission in major hubs but a few sectors over. But a few days ago I had the nicest ninja salvager ever. He warped into my mission and asked me if he could salvage. He was willingly to split the profits with me. I was rather skeptical but since only a few wrecks remained I told him to go ahead. I made all the wrecks free for all and watched. Surprisingly once I was done and he headed to the station I did get a nice pay off in the form of 2 million. Yes the guy actually did pay me to not salvage. Though he also made a profit, and technically stole from my profits. I won't whine about it. I thought it was rather nice and saved me some time. So people, I seriously don't see why you MUST have your wrecks, loot, and bounty all to yourself. Split them and make Eve a happier place. Also you whining about it gives the ninjas extra bonus points.
Face612	Posted - 2010.03.01 20:43:00 - [85] Originally by: Baillif What **es me off about the salvage rules is that you can't use tractors on someone else's wreck in 0.0 or lowsec THIS!! Give me an aggression timer or something, I don't care. they should make it possible to tractor in low/null sec. Other than that, OP is a troll. ** off.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.03.01 21:33:00 - [86] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? You get banned for avoiding Concord. Actually the station refuses to let you dock, then CONCORD shows up and WTFBBQPWNs you. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.03.03 01:22:00 - [87] Either way, hilarity ensues and tears flow.
plaugewraith1	Posted - 2010.03.03 01:37:00 - [88] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Ehranavaar thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle. Thing is it's a ****ing game. Nuff Said?
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.03.03 04:33:00 - [89] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will **and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality I'm trying to find the words to describe this post without being disrespectful. _________ Originally by:** CCP Zymurgist You have always had permission to kill anyone in game you see fit to lose a ship! My name is Pater!

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