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Salvaging laws is totally ridiculous

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Re Mmacs	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:21:00 - [1] The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:26:00 - [2] You would be the left one. Or are you troll? :o I know it can be annoying but salvage is FFA. Pro-tip: find a quiet system to run missions in.
Owen Drakkar Terra Nostra	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:30:00 - [3] You are the perfect target tbh, do you attack when they steal your loot too?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will **and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality** 0/10 You're trying too hard. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Slaydo GAme	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:36:00 - [5] my, is this the 500th thread on this or what? Its not going to change at all. CCP has stated this numerous times. TBH you're thinking wreck as in wreck. You're not thinknig in terms of salvage. In real life i believe its if you find a ship and tow it its yours. Some states for cars after a certain amount of time and after trying to contact the owner, the car is yours. No this game isnt about reality, if you wanted reality unplug the pc and look outside. EVE is a game. Find a quieter system. Salvage as you go through the mission. Double box with a seperate account hire a trustworthy friend and split the salvage Don't salavage period Those are your options, pick one and get over it.
Multipurpose Cleaner	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:51:00 - [6] Can we all report this for trolling and leave it at that?
Hallax	Posted - 2010.02.12 22:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Hallax on 12/02/2010 22:03:12 I agree, it IS reaching unacceptable levels. I even had to downgrade to a Slicer from a Dramiel! Just kidding. I salvage in a black ops.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2010.02.12 22:47:00 - [8] thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Ehranavaar thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle. Thing is it's a ****ing game. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Akiba Penrose	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:32:00 - [10] UNACCEPTABLE I SAY!!
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:32:00 - [11] sage oh wait...
Ba'Rumph The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Ehranavaar thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle. Pretty sure maritime laws don't say that whoever destroyed an enemy vessel owns the wreckage.
PostmasterGeneral Minmatar yo i'm posting	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:46:00 - [13] poor troll end yourself
Ba'Rumph The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:48:00 - [14] Originally by: PostmasterGeneral poor troll end yourself (in game)
Baillif Red Mist Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.13 00:22:00 - [15] What ****es me off about the salvage rules is that you can't use tractors on someone else's wreck in 0.0 or lowsec
Rascael Rascaels	Posted - 2010.02.13 00:29:00 - [16] firing up locator agent as we speak :) 2 out of 10 Troll only because you included spelling mistakes and alluded to EvE being like real life
Miyuki Shirafune Hedion University	Posted - 2010.02.13 00:56:00 - [17] WTF IS PROTUS
Echelon V	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Re Mmacs TIF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face you're not in texas anymore!
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:27:00 - [19] Okay, fair enough. I say that whoever salvages a wreck, using the OPs analogy as a guide, should get aggro to the NPCs whose ship it used to be. And we can extend that to players, as in if X player gets blown up by Y and leaves a wreck behind, salvaging gives you aggro to X. My sig don't fracking work.
Echelon V	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Karlemgne Okay, fair enough. I say that whoever salvages a wreck, using the OPs analogy as a guide, should get aggro to the NPCs whose ship it used to be. And we can extend that to players, as in if X player gets blown up by Y and leaves a wreck behind, salvaging gives you aggro to X. For some reason I like this thread. Also: it's not going to happen \o/
AMAGADLOOK I'MPOSTING Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:49:00 - [21] I say that whoever salvages someone else's wreck is a big fat piraty son of a pirate. Go get life you dastardly fiends. Also, IWIN 100 !NT3RN3T5 for every post.
GankuVerymuch	Posted - 2010.02.13 02:57:00 - [22] Truth of the matter is yes the ownership is wacked. The wreck after shot has your name on it. The loot is yours and so should be the wreck considering it has your name on it. it's kind of like parking your car and a cop telling you he can't do anything when someone steals your tires and radio.(they told the cop they were salvaging not stealing) Truth is CCP hates carebears. That's why they keep trying to push people out to low and null-sec. examples 1.low-sec lvl 4's where no mission ship should really go without a fleet which makes it about as cost effective as selling noob ships. 2.explorations whose loot tables have been broken forever.(ala no high-sec faction loot) 3.insurance mechanics for ganking(yes i too can beat the dead horse but it's still true) simple answer: don't hold your breath. they want you to get ****ed, shoot them, and get blown up it's funny to them. But you could always make a gank alt like me and jump aboard the a-hole train while it's still rollin. Seems like that's who CCP panders to anyway
Echelon V	Posted - 2010.02.13 03:10:00 - [23] Originally by: GankuVerymuch Truth of the matter is yes the ownership is wacked. The wreck after shot has your name on it. The loot is yours and so should be the wreck considering it has your name on it. it's kind of like parking your car and a cop telling you he can't do anything when someone steals your tires and radio.(they told the cop they were salvaging not stealing) Confirming that I usually activate a salvager on broken down cars and end up with Radio Bars worth 500k ISK while the wrecked car suddenly turns into a barrel. wait wat?
Joe Stalin Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.13 03:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Re Mmacs This game is suppoded to be reality HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA An internet spaceship game is suppsed to be reality he says
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.02.13 04:10:00 - [25] What was CCP thinking putting these stupid salvaging laws in the game?
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.13 05:08:00 - [26] Almost the worst troll on the forums (Herty beats you). ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Cerisia Lone Star enterprises Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.13 05:59:00 - [27] OP Can I has your stuff??? Oh wait - no worries I'll just come along and take it anyway
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House	Posted - 2010.02.13 06:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality be your own police little boy and go kick some but
Tau Dades Caldari Even End of the Universe	Posted - 2010.02.13 07:12:00 - [29] ninja salvage whines are soooooooooo 2009. the whine for 2010 should be: Dramiels
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House	Posted - 2010.02.13 07:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Tau Dades ninja salvage whines are soooooooooo 2009. the whine for 2010 should be: Dramiels lol yeh, i heard they are good
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Punic Corp.	Posted - 2010.02.13 09:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Tau Dades ninja salvage whines are soooooooooo 2007. Fixed. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.'
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.02.13 09:40:00 - [32] I'm shocked that so many people could fall for such an obvious troll.. Lana's new bounty system.
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.13 12:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Lana Torrin I'm shocked that so many people could fall for such an obvious troll.. i don't mind having people blabber on the forums on how they would change a perfectly balanced system for the worse.
Trustworthy Joe Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.14 04:42:00 - [34] Originally by: Omara Otawan What was CCP thinking putting these stupid salvaging laws in the game? want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Phoben	Posted - 2010.02.14 13:17:00 - [35] Edited by: Phoben on 14/02/2010 13:19:08 Originally by: Slaydo GAme You're not thinknig in terms of salvage. In real life i believe its if you find a ship and tow it its yours. and you don't know salvage laws. all wrecks and property at sea is deemed to be owned by someone. You as the salvager have to claim that you found the item. It is then the duty of local government agent to find the legal owner of that item, usually after a certain length of time when no owner is found, the item will have you assigned as the owner the boat you tow into port is still owned by the owner and when you tow it in you will be paid a salvage fee. the boat is not your and never will be yours, its an agreement between salvor and owner as to an appropriate fee for the work. to put it into an Eve perspective, you could ninja salvage from someone elses mission but you would have to offer that salvage back to the owner for a reasonable fee. If you kept the salvage it would be classed as theft. I make a simple judgement that as the missioner accepted the mission the wrecks are his bearing in mind if he didn't accept the mission there would be nothing there for you to ninja salvage from.
Mara Tessidar	Posted - 2010.02.14 15:50:00 - [36] I, for one, support tractoring other people's stuff in nullsec. Like really? Just because it belongs to someone else's corp? Like that's stopping me from taking the loot? Oh btw OP: unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful. So, um, yeah, this is actually my signature.
Demonrok Angel	Posted - 2010.02.14 19:08:00 - [37] Edited by: Demonrok Angel on 14/02/2010 19:09:52 Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N Originally by: Tau Dades ninja salvage whines are soooooooooo 2009. the whine for 2010 should be: Dramiels lol yeh, i heard they are good A bunch of caldaris complain that a ship is unfairly bonused... that whine is timeless and priceless and good luck with that. I always wondered why salvaging wasnt theft but i wonder more why outlaws are banished from space before they become viable targets... let them in its owrse in than out for them or else banish them -0.5 sec from 1.0 -1.0 sec from 0.9... excuse me for killing someone... oh excuse me again... oh excuse me plenty thanks very much and in fact hold me off the black list until i am certifiably genocidal. You will? Oh great, caldari here i come...
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2010.02.14 20:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Ba'Rumph Originally by: Ehranavaar thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle. Pretty sure maritime laws don't say that whoever destroyed an enemy vessel owns the wreckage. probably wasn't considered an issue with wet navies as the wreckage tends to sink at once. if you go back to the wooden ships days though you'd find admiralty law on the subject. look under prize ships.
Max Powwer	Posted - 2010.02.15 01:10:00 - [39] it just seems odd that looting the wreck is theft, but salvaging isn't. What's the diff really? A shipwreck in reality would just be one pile of parts floating in space, not two separate components each governed by it's own set of rules. Do you guys think it would be better to treat wrecks as one item? If so, ownership would be all or nothing, which of course would open up a whole new debate :)
Larg Kellein Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.02.15 16:43:00 - [40] Just on the off chance that this isn't trolling: Salvaging is currently working as intended. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Phoben	Posted - 2010.02.15 16:46:00 - [41] Originally by: Max Powwer Do you guys think it would be better to treat wrecks as one item? If so, ownership would be all or nothing, which of course would open up a whole new debate :) again the cargo and the wreck are often 2 different things, someone may own the cargo and someone may own the ship. I'd like to see a trigger for ninja salvaging, you take from a wreck then you have say 2 hrs, to negotiate with the wreck owner for payment for salvage and loot, after which if no negotiated settlement is reached the parties are blinky red to each other for 36hrs. maybe needs a bit of work and not sure how to work out what fair price for salvage would be, maybe 75% of market value.
Re Mmacs	Posted - 2010.02.15 17:30:00 - [42] I STILL THINK this is stuped if for example if im in my house and a man starts to salvage my front porch i can shoot this man in teh face and when the police come they will understand and man will be taken away by german concord All of this trolling of my thread does not change whats theft is going on, can anyone SHOW ME where ccp ever say that the THEFT of salvaging that other persons have committed long work for is allowed????????????????????/////////
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.15 17:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Re Mmacs I STILL THINK this is stuped if for example if im in my house and a man starts to salvage my front porch i can shoot this man in teh face and when the police come they will understand and man will be taken away by german concord All of this trolling of my thread does not change whats theft is going on, can anyone SHOW ME where ccp ever say that the THEFT of salvaging that other persons have committed long work for is allowed????????????????????///////// Hi troll, you just need to have looked 2 posts up rather than replying with some pathetic spastic comment. Originally by: Larg Kellein Just on the off chance that this isn't trolling: Salvaging is currently working as intended. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.15 17:48:00 - [44] Edited by: Yuki Kulotsuki on 15/02/2010 17:52:45 ^ missed the CCP quotes about it working as intended. Edit: too slow! Well in that case I'll add one more quote to the pile. Per CCP Dropbear Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Kahega Amielden Don't worry, CCP. We here at Suddenly NinjasÖ are working hard to add social interaction to generic missions And we love you (and others like you) for it! In some weird and wonderful way, groups like yours operate as flag bearers for the full EVE experience, and we wouldn't want to change, or get in the way of that. Also, lol. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.15 18:08:00 - [45] I'm disappointed. When I saw the topic of this post, I was expecting a genuine salvaging whine, and was all set to start a rant on how we should *** about salvaging again. Then I noticed the obvious troll being obvious in the OP, and left disappointed. Oh hey, Mmacs, can I use this quote in my sig? Originally by:** Re Mmacs IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face
Solomar Espersei Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.02.15 21:16:00 - [46] I pledge to you OP that if I salvage in your mission, I will also loot... everything. Fire away. all the best, solomar
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.02.15 21:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Re Mmacs I STILL THINK this is stuped if for example if im in my house and a man starts to salvage my front porch i can shoot this man in teh face and when the police come they will understand and man will be taken away by german concord All of this trolling of my thread does not change whats theft is going on, can anyone SHOW ME where ccp ever say that the THEFT of salvaging that other persons have committed long work for is allowed????????????????????///////// Seriously. There's a rhythm to a good troll you haven't picked up yet. Keep practicing. Maybe go look at some of Lana's older posts for inspiration. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Kate Yeats Caldari Everyshore Mineral Acquisition Authority	Posted - 2010.02.15 21:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Solomar Espersei ... Fire away. SN confirming they are indeed trying too hard? \|Adventures in Acquisition\|
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2010.02.16 00:57:00 - [49] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality There is no theft for the salvage belongs to nobody.
The Jam Amarr Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2010.02.16 01:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality Iam gonna bite just because iam board but i think you need this to go with your whine . T3PWN
Annie Thrax	Posted - 2010.02.16 01:25:00 - [51] I have to say that generally. I find missioning boring. And was one of the main reason I liked EVE at first. Getting away from endless grinds of other MMO's. That being said. I have done them before. And the best fun I have ever had while doing them. Was with ninja salvagers. I lol'ed myself silly. Just shot ur wrecks ppl. Yeah you'll miss ur salvage. But heh you aren't gonna get it anyway. Do it like this though. Target as many as u can. that are close to the ninja. Then either view him or use ur overlay to see where hes going. soon as u see the salvager. Gank the wreck. dont shoot them till they at least get to the wreck. Its funny as hell making em run around. Its like a mini eve whack a mole game. I actually missioned a lot more when I discovered this little game. But alas. You know what happened after a while? Yep you guessed it. They moved on to greener pastures. I was very sad. And quit missioning. The best was when u get a **y one. Like our buddy Solomar there. Cause they will tell u in local. Like they will in this post btw. "I dont care! Ur blowing up ur own wrecks noob!". Or some such nonsense. But the y ones will keep coming back to u specifically. Cause it in fact does bother them. Took me 3 missions in row to finally get this little **y fellow to lose it lol. Talked all kinds of smack in local before that. But 3 missions in row with no salvage or fun to be had by him or his mates on stand bye . But he was the one who eventually left me all alone. Trust me. Its big fun. By the way what system are u in. Cause I would love to do this again. But every time I do. I quickly run outta of ppl to play with. And since I don't do it much. I'm unaware where these major mission hubs are
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.16 04:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Annie Thrax You know what happened after a while? Yep you guessed it. They moved on to greener pastures. Cool story bro
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.16 06:07:00 - [53] Originally by: DuKackBoon Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality There is no theft for the salvage belongs to nobody. No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Dodixie. A system where the ninjas would not fear the censor. Where the trolls would not be bound by petty morality. Where the great would not be constrained by the small. And with the sweat of your brow, Dodixie can become your system as well.
Aralyn Cormallen Caldari Front for Illegal Actvities	Posted - 2010.02.16 10:17:00 - [54] Originally by: Re Mmacs I STILL THINK this is stuped if for example if im in my house and a man starts to salvage my front porch i can shoot this man in teh face and when the police come they will understand and man will be taken away by german concord All of this trolling of my thread does not change whats theft is going on, can anyone SHOW ME where ccp ever say that the THEFT of salvaging that other persons have committed long work for is allowed????????????????????///////// Your thinking your analogy wrong. You went to see the guy who lived across the street, shot him in the face, then went to shoot his wife. While you were blasting her in the face, your next door neighbour came by and went "Hmm, nice porch" and made off with it. Are you really saying you would run to the police with the arguement "I shot him, his porch belongs to me!" Your both theives to the guy who really owned it (though he's lying dead now), your neighbour was just quicker. Non Moritur Cuius Fama Vivat He Dies Not Whose Fame Survives
Alchemist Zemont Gallente Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.02.16 10:49:00 - [55] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will ****and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality I agree, remove salvaging from the game and force people to PvP in they macro Golems
Xultanis	Posted - 2010.02.16 11:17:00 - [56] I really hope this will help put some perspective on what you saying. The ship is bought or built buy the npc pirate corp. You blow it up and the wreck still belongs to the npc pirate corp. People and dev's have said this and you still argue about symantics. So lets put it this way. Salvage is a skill that needs to be trained. You must have the skill and the equipment to use the module in question. Looting, however, does not require a skill. So in this regard we can understand that CCP would like to keep the server load to a minimum by at least having someone come by for "trash" pick up, because thats all it is. Still not satisfied? Then how about you just go back in time when there were nothing but can's and no salvage. Will that make you happy? There problem fixed. CCP can fix your theiving problems by talking it completely out of the game. This was a game mechanic to help introduce rigs and add another isk flow into the game. Yes ninja salvaging is annoying. You work at it for about a good hour hoping to get another 20m from the salvage. Tough man. Just deal with it. Pops the wrecks then if your tired of it, or like everyone else would end up suggesting, move to a quieter system. The wrecks isn't loot since you need to have the skill to use the module that would access said salvage. What funny is a lot of the older pilots don't complain about ninja salvaging as much as you newer ones do. We understand it as a game mechanic as would be the harshness of EvE and move on with our day. So just stop QQ'ing and grow up man. Stop with all the symantics. I have had ninja salvagers come into my missions before. Like you, I hate it. I just put in all that work and now they are going to ninja that ****. I get angry about it, but I don't complain. I usually just pop the wreck as they get to it :). The second I see that little beam turn on I one pop the wrecks. Then I watch them fly another 40 or 90km's to the next one and do the same thing. They are wasting so much time flying from point (A) to point (B). Yes I'm losing money, but I'm wasting their day :). If you still won't shut up, the game itself has provided tools for your revenge. Pay a merc corp to wardec the ninja salvagers corp, or get your own corp to war dec them, or you could just do your homework and suicide gank their hulks and what not. My 2 cents.
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.16 11:29:00 - [57] Originally by: Aralyn Cormallen Originally by: Re Mmacs I STILL THINK this is stuped if for example if im in my house and a man starts to salvage my front porch i can shoot this man in teh face and when the police come they will understand and man will be taken away by german concord All of this trolling of my thread does not change whats theft is going on, can anyone SHOW ME where ccp ever say that the THEFT of salvaging that other persons have committed long work for is allowed????????????????????///////// Your thinking your analogy wrong. You went to see the guy who lived across the street, shot him in the face, then went to shoot his wife. While you were blasting her in the face, your next door neighbour came by and went "Hmm, nice porch" and made off with it. Are you really saying you would run to the police with the arguement "I shot him, his porch belongs to me!" Your both theives to the guy who really owned it (though he's lying dead now), your neighbour was just quicker. Nah... You shot the rabid dogs tearing up the neighbourhood. While your collecting collars 'n crap, someone comes along and cuts the organs out of the dog. It's not theft, it's recycling!
Re Mmacs	Posted - 2010.02.16 14:28:00 - [58] Whay are you bringing dogs into this? Now you are just trolling me trying. Its not the same thing, I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, if the dog is mine and you shoot the dog then I will have our efficient police on you and is the same if you shoot the dog in the porch and it is not at all the same thing with my neighbours house as my neighbour is not an npc so my way still makes sense comparisoned to yours. We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers
Aralyn Cormallen Caldari Front for Illegal Actvities	Posted - 2010.02.16 14:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Re Mmacs Whay are you bringing dogs into this? Now you are just trolling me trying. Its not the same thing, I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, if the dog is mine and you shoot the dog then I will have our efficient police on you and is the same if you shoot the dog in the porch and it is not at all the same thing with my neighbours house as my neighbour is not an npc so my way still makes sense comparisoned to yours. We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers Thats the point, it aint yours numb-nuts, it belongs to the npc guy you just killed. The other dude who took the salvage was just quicker taking it off the real owner than you were. Your both theives, he was just faster. Non Moritur Cuius Fama Vivat He Dies Not Whose Fame Survives
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.16 14:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Re Mmacs Whay are you bringing dogs into this? Now you are just trolling me trying. Its not the same thing, I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, if the dog is mine and you shoot the dog then I will have our efficient police on you and is the same if you shoot the dog in the porch and it is not at all the same thing with my neighbours house as my neighbour is not an npc so my way still makes sense comparisoned to yours. We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers No seriously dude, you're trying too hard. If you want people to bite on your trolls, try to be more realistic.
Fearr Dorchaa	Posted - 2010.02.16 15:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Paknac Queltel Originally by: Re Mmacs Whay are you bringing dogs into this? Now you are just trolling me trying. Its not the same thing, I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, if the dog is mine and you shoot the dog then I will have our efficient police on you and is the same if you shoot the dog in the porch and it is not at all the same thing with my neighbours house as my neighbour is not an npc so my way still makes sense comparisoned to yours. We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers No seriously dude, you're trying too hard. If you want people to bite on your trolls, try to be more realistic. I see you have missed the post directly above yours...sigh The only way to stop rubbish like this is to track the OP down and beat him to death with a trout (in game)
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.02.16 16:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Re Mmacs I am speaking of salvaging something that is mine and not belongered to someperson else, <<snippage>> We need action on this ridicolousness before more innocent game PLAYERS like me are offended by mutant game ABUSERS like ninja salvagetakers Keep trying, keep trying... no, on second thought... Originally by: Larg Kellein Just on the off chance that this isn't trolling: Salvaging is currently working as intended. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.16 17:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa Originally by: Paknac Queltel No seriously dude, you're trying too hard. If you want people to bite on your trolls, try to be more realistic. I see you have missed the post directly above yours...sigh Yeah, he posted while I was replying. Once again, my faith in humanity is weakened. This is the punishment part of Crime & Punishment... Originally by: Fearr Dorchaa The only way to stop rubbish like this is to track the OP down and beat him to death with a trout (in game) This. Almost makes me wish posting-alts were required to spend time logged in and undocked.
Dariah Stardweller Gallente Gung-Ho	Posted - 2010.02.16 18:14:00 - [64] Ninja salvagers make missions more interesting, and I don¦t care about the salvage part realy, it¦s the looting of all the meta 4 items that ****es me off But good fun can be had with them. Like the time some idiot thought a myrmidon would make a good salvageboat. I let him slowboat to the wrecks for 40 km to shoot them all down just b4 he got in range. Ninja salvagers/loot thiefs are a part of eve that is not going away, deal with it en try to have some fun while dealing :)
Doctor Cal'torien Gallente The Vikings of the Black Sea	Posted - 2010.02.16 18:45:00 - [65] the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Originally by: Damien Grammaticus Feeding your cat Scrabble tiles and copying the poop would have created a more legible post.
Amneamnius Primary.	Posted - 2010.02.18 09:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious Salvagers are "Data and composition" scanners Salvage is technically regarded as INFORMATION. So a better analogy would be "cops wouldn't arrest you for taking pictures of a car wreck"
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.02.18 10:03:00 - [67] Originally by: Amneamnius Originally by: Doctor Cal'torien the police will not shoot you in the face for taking something from a car wreck, they will stop and arrest you though. Regardless, you tears are delicious Salvagers are "Data and composition" scanners Salvage is technically regarded as INFORMATION. So a better analogy would be "cops wouldn't arrest you for taking pictures of a car wreck" Linking up to the car's computer systems might be looked at oddly, though. Cars are a bad choice for interweb smackship comparisons.
Earl Comstock Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.02.18 14:23:00 - [68] Perhaps Tom Cruise will save you with the witchcraft of central programming.
Palinurus Somnus	Posted - 2010.02.18 16:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Earl Comstock Perhaps Tom Cruise will save you with the witchcraft of central programming. Careful, Earl - last time HIS name was mentioned the thread was locked!
gtiness	Posted - 2010.02.18 16:30:00 - [70] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will **and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality The level of trolling - yes you heard me, trolling is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a troll, under a bridge, or even in space... then the Police will **and shoot this thing in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality --- Fixed that for you.
Tatanya Darkdawn Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.18 17:53:00 - [71] IMO the problem is not salvaging, or "ninja" salvaging. I mean, I think it's perfectly ok to salvage wrecks you find in space. I think the problem is that 2 day old chars can use combat scanner probes. I mean, why should a totally new player be able to use them really? Perhaps making combat probes T2 (or otherwise rising the skill reqs) would bar the really new (or trial account?) pilots from farming ISK and enhance the dedication needed for combat probing. This would leave new pilots quite free to go salvage rat wrecks at belts and more advanced "griefers" to scan down mission runners. But really, whatever.
JDawg1290	Posted - 2010.02.18 20:17:00 - [72] just find a system with 2 l4 agents, and get one to give you recon 3 of 3. when the salvagers start bugging you on the other missions, finish up, and then jump there in a well tanked ship. watch them go pop :)
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.18 21:25:00 - [73] Originally by: JDawg1290 just find a system with 2 l4 agents, and get one to give you recon 3 of 3. when the salvagers start bugging you on the other missions, finish up, and then jump there in a well tanked ship. watch them go pop :) Next stop: 30 alts jumping on your recon 3 of 3. it was rather funny the first couple of times.
Gwen Ingolffson	Posted - 2010.02.18 23:01:00 - [74] Originally by: Phoben Originally by: Max Powwer Do you guys think it would be better to treat wrecks as one item? If so, ownership would be all or nothing, which of course would open up a whole new debate :) again the cargo and the wreck are often 2 different things, someone may own the cargo and someone may own the ship. I'd like to see a trigger for ninja salvaging, you take from a wreck then you have say 2 hrs, to negotiate with the wreck owner for payment for salvage and loot, after which if no negotiated settlement is reached the parties are blinky red to each other for 36hrs. maybe needs a bit of work and not sure how to work out what fair price for salvage would be, maybe 75% of market value. I approve. It's too expensive to wardec people. With this I can steal their ** and then kill them and steal more of their **. :)
gurkabuddie	Posted - 2010.02.24 21:10:00 - [75] I am getting tired of ninja salvagers and a more worrying problem of mission raiders who deliberately provoke PVP by stealing from mission wreck. I would sujest that in missions ninja salvagers are attacked by mission ships and not allowed to freely fly around mission and salvage, also if player deliberately steals from mission wreckhe looses standing by the amount of standings he would gain if doing mission himself or herself. I recently got penalised by fed navy due to salvage thief, I took couple of shots at them to make them clear off, I warped out and they flew into next room, got warped and webbed, I was given the kill and as soon as I undocked was promptly popped by fed navy. I would say that if they wish to comit crime , they get penalised in some form
Kalibrated	Posted - 2010.02.24 22:18:00 - [76] It's not your salvage to begin with. the salvage belongs to who ever activated their equipment on the wreck. stop being a F-Tard
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.25 01:09:00 - [77] Originally by: gurkabuddie I am getting tired of ninja salvagers and a more worrying problem of mission raiders who deliberately provoke PVP by stealing from mission wreck. I would sujest that in missions ninja salvagers are attacked by mission ships and not allowed to freely fly around mission and salvage, also if player deliberately steals from mission wreckhe looses standing by the amount of standings he would gain if doing mission himself or herself. I recently got penalised by fed navy due to salvage thief, I took couple of shots at them to make them clear off, I warped out and they flew into next room, got warped and webbed, I was given the kill and as soon as I undocked was promptly popped by fed navy. I would say that if they wish to comit crime , they get penalised in some form Obviously they committed no crime. Shooting at an innocent ship, though...that's a crime.
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2010.02.25 01:33:00 - [78] Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 25/02/2010 01:34:12 Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Edit: Oh, already been posted. Twice. Hah. Ah well, another copy for page 3. _____ 10/10: Where is your God now?
Aeternus IV	Posted - 2010.02.25 07:05:00 - [79] I love to ninja salvage. I spent a couple weeks perfecting my scanning ability and salvaging skills. So, some advice for ya, although it's been said a couple times. You don't want someone like me taking your stuff? Either Salvage as you go, have another player (friend/alt) salvaging, or blow your wrecks up. Some of the most fun I have is when I'm ninja salvaging and they bring in a friend to try and beat me to everything. That doesn't work. It actually makes it easier for the ninja, as all he has to do is follow the salvager. T2 salvager range + reduced cycle time = win. =D One other thing you could do, if you run into a noobly ninja. If you happen to be doing the mission with the Pleasure Hub in it... blow up the hub while he's close to it. I was actually salvaging for a friend and a ninja came in. My friend popped the Pleasure Hub without warning me, it insta popped the ninja and my rigged salvager. heh... at the time it was my most expensive ship.
Tian Nu	Posted - 2010.02.25 13:18:00 - [80] ninja salvage is good ! it helps CCP clean the wrecs and doing so the server lag less, long life to ninjas.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:11:00 - [81] What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.25 14:23:00 - [82] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? Station denies you docking rights.
Awesome Possum	Posted - 2010.02.25 16:29:00 - [83] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? You get banned for avoiding Concord. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2010.02.25 17:03:00 - [84] Wow this always makes me laugh. Primarily because I don't mission in major hubs but a few sectors over. But a few days ago I had the nicest ninja salvager ever. He warped into my mission and asked me if he could salvage. He was willingly to split the profits with me. I was rather skeptical but since only a few wrecks remained I told him to go ahead. I made all the wrecks free for all and watched. Surprisingly once I was done and he headed to the station I did get a nice pay off in the form of 2 million. Yes the guy actually did pay me to not salvage. Though he also made a profit, and technically stole from my profits. I won't whine about it. I thought it was rather nice and saved me some time. So people, I seriously don't see why you MUST have your wrecks, loot, and bounty all to yourself. Split them and make Eve a happier place. Also you whining about it gives the ninjas extra bonus points.
Face612	Posted - 2010.03.01 20:43:00 - [85] Originally by: Baillif What **es me off about the salvage rules is that you can't use tractors on someone else's wreck in 0.0 or lowsec THIS!! Give me an aggression timer or something, I don't care. they should make it possible to tractor in low/null sec. Other than that, OP is a troll. ** off.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.03.01 21:33:00 - [86] Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What happens if in 0.5: 1) You align the battleship to a station 2) Press F1 (or whatever) 1 shotting the salvage frig 3) At the same time you spam "Dock" icon in the top right Does Concord manage to get you or you instawarp as you should, dock and then wait 15 mins out? You get banned for avoiding Concord. Actually the station refuses to let you dock, then CONCORD shows up and WTFBBQPWNs you. --Vel Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats.
Mel Lifera Gallente Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.03.03 01:22:00 - [87] Either way, hilarity ensues and tears flow.
plaugewraith1	Posted - 2010.03.03 01:37:00 - [88] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Ehranavaar thing is no one at ccp bothered to look at the actual maritime law for a simple definition of salvage. salvage is indeed up for grabs first come first served. trouble is what they refer to as salvage isn't salvage at all it's more properly defined as the spoils of battle. Thing is it's a ****ing game. Nuff Said?
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.03.03 04:33:00 - [89] Originally by: Re Mmacs The level of THEFT - yes you heard me, THEFT of salvage is reaching unacceptable levels, why are CCP not doing something about this? IF someone finds a car wreck and decides to take from it then the Police will **and shoot this man in the face WHERE IS THE PLICE IN GAME TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN??? This game is suppoded to be reality I'm trying to find the words to describe this post without being disrespectful. _________ Originally by:** CCP Zymurgist You have always had permission to kill anyone in game you see fit to lose a ship! My name is Pater!

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Hi troll, you just need to have looked 2 posts up rather than replying with some pathetic spastic comment.