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Building a computer for fleet fights x4

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SpearLance	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:35:00 - [1] Hello, I'm currently planning to build a new computer for eve. I own 4 accounts and up till now, usually only run one at a time. I'd LOVE to be able to run all 4 simultaneously durring a fleet fight. This is my goal. I have a rather flexible budget, approx 1,000 usd. What I'm looking at is either an i7 920, with a 5870 gpu. My question is: what is going to be the limiting factor in these massaive fleet fights? Should I degrade the CPU to a phenom 955 saving 150, and buying two 5870's? To note the i7 uses tripple channel ddr3 ram, while the phenom uses only duel channel, ddr3 also of some importance, the screen will be on maximum resultion, with 4 eve windows on minium window size, ( does this matter?) so, suggestions? Should I go for max ram? Should I invest in a ssd to load images ect faster? Ingame settings will be on minimum, no brackets. I appreciate your help!
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:50:00 - [2] A Phenom II 955 is perfectly fine for fleet fights. The limiting factor on the CPU is brackets and grid loading. neitehr of these are too much of a concern on modern CPUs. About 8GB of RAM is advised for fast loading time assuming you put Resource caching On. Make sure the RAM is either DDR2 1066MHz or DDR3 1600MHz for optimal performance. For GPU speed a single 4870 is sufficient on 1440x900 X 4 with all on max. My HD 4890 Phenom II 940 manages 100FPS with 4 clients on max graphics. You don't need a i7 or dual 5870 to get the best performance, just ensure that each component is reasonably to date. SSDs are worthless with resource caching in EVE. They onyl really help loading times in really intensive games like Crysis or Farcry and even then ONLY in loading times. EVE is not a demanding game. ------------------------------------- The system issues man.
Last Wolf Rage For Order	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:53:00 - [3] max ram and dual graphic cards each with 1gig or more of onboard ram. Any decent quad core will work, you can then CTRL ALT DELETE, select your clients' process and lock each one to a different core. Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.02.12 21:55:00 - [4] Having enough ram for each instance's memory footprint will be important, plus the fact that you'll need additional headroom for the OS and some buffer. I'd say run 12gb or so. As for video bandwidth and the CPU, IMO you should spend the money on more CPU vs. more video card. Even running 4x clients you're not going to be fill rate limited by a single video card across four clients. An SSD will always be awesome, but they're still pretty expensive for the performance increases you'll see day to day. Eve doesn't do a lot of extended high volume throughput. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Tera Charlise	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:10:00 - [5] I just built a machine to run multi clients as well. The first thing that I would like to point out is that IMO you budget of 1000usd is quite light. I have over 2000usd into mine and it will run 3 clients at once without starting to get a reduction in FPS that begins to get annoying. I have the following specs. i7 920 Proc Asus 1366 MB 2x Intel x25 80gb SSD's in raid 0 1 1.5TB WD 7200 caviar HDD Black 2x XFX ATI Radeon 5870 1 gig DDR5 RAM (DO NOT RUN IN CROSSFIRE IF YOU ARE RUNNING MULTIPLE CLIENTS!!!) 16Gb Crucial DDR3 RAM Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality Antec 850W 4Rail 80+ Bronze Basic optical Drive Antec Nine Hundred Two Case All 4 monitors are Samsung Syncmaster 2343BWX 23" Monitors With monitors I have well over 3000USD into this rig and I assure you it will not run 4 clients at once and have any decent FPS. 3 clients is acceptable and 2 is outstanding. You have to run eve in windowed mode if you intend to jump from one screen to the other without using the ALT+Return. Running in windowed mode is going to decrease your FPS greatly. Best of luck. Hopefully you will find a setup that will work for you!
Y'laaris Brood	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:27:00 - [6] Drop to an i7 860 - uses 1156 socket for which motherboards are cheaper (and they're dual rather than tri channel Ram) without much drop in performance. Mine, with 8Gb RAM and a geforce 295 runs flawlessly on 2 clients on highest settings.
SpearLance	Posted - 2010.02.12 23:44:00 - [7] Can you please elaborate why xfire mode is not comparable with eve? Your setup looks exacty like what I'm aimin for, except fitting all 4 eve windows into one monitor. This is the only statement that troubles me. Thank you!
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.02.13 03:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Tera Charlise With monitors I have well over 3000USD into this rig and I assure you it will not run 4 clients at once and have any decent FPS. 3 clients is acceptable and 2 is outstanding. That would be a layer8 problem though, considering that my box runs four at a time with no problems whatsoever at one sixth the budget, spent three years ago. A lot of people seem to forget that UI rendering is the primary bottleneck. More Ram, Gpu or Cpu power only slightly affects UI performance. If you don't know how to use bracket filtering effectively, you will never run more than one client well in any situation with a lot of ships (and drones) involved. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Hickock Caldari Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.02.13 04:38:00 - [9] Also, putting all your settings to low/off makes multi-clienting wayy more easier, with lag that is. -------------- Visit http://extremepredators.com/ for more information.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.02.13 07:48:00 - [10] We have something at the NSA that can play Crysis maxxed at 1600X900 resolution with 150 FPS, so maybe just mayyyyyybe it could handle a fleet figh.... ahem capital ship fight in Capital Ships Online. Other than that, you're pretty much borked.
MHayes Caldari Rage For Order Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.13 09:05:00 - [11] Edited by: MHayes on 13/02/2010 09:05:26 I have an i7, 4870 and like 6gb of ram, does the job homie. i7 is better than pheanom. Seriously don't bother with Xfire, it won't make much difference either. If I disable brackets most lag isn't to do with my PC. CPU or GPU. Don't spend 3k on a PC, it wont' do much more than 1k PC. At least not i this game.
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2010.02.13 09:44:00 - [12] I was poor, so i bought a phenom II and the thing can run 4 accounts with ease on 4 gigs ddr3 ram. Any modern cpu will run eve with little trouble. My PC runs crysis with very little trouble. Also dual 5870s is MADNESS. One 5870 is just fine. Or just buy a 5970, which is essentially dual 5870s on the same PCB. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Vossejongk Caldari Bendebeukers Green Rhino	Posted - 2010.02.13 13:38:00 - [13] Got all settings on high, resource cache enabled. Eve uses 513mb memory.. I'm fine with 3 gigs (have 4 but damn 32 bit xp) so meh. But tbh i only use 1 client.. for more then 2 I suggest getting 8 gb ram (These days its not that expensive anymore and most if not all newer mobo's can support it. But then again I cant really approve of any of this because this is my signature
Duries Kain Amarr Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.02.13 15:13:00 - [14] The most important part to avoid lagfests are the hdds. Get some GOOD SSDs and you will be fine.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.13 15:22:00 - [15] I run a dual core 4000+ 2 gigs of ram and an 8600 gt. I have no problems fleeting 2 accounts on that. Double that and you should be golden, and you should be able to get way more than 2x the computer that I have for a smooth G. I would imagine a raid setup would be ideal, and quite attainable. 8GB of ram is a good idea if you are running windows. -------------------------------------------------- I'm so Old I can remember when QQ was TT
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.13 23:20:00 - [16] Originally by: SpearLance Hello, I'm currently planning to build a new computer for eve. I own 4 accounts and up till now, usually only run one at a time. I'd LOVE to be able to run all 4 simultaneously durring a fleet fight. This is my goal. I appreciate your help! Any old computer will be fine. It's the bandwidth you need be concerned about. Start with a T1 line. Or a T3 at 44.736 Mbps. That should run 4 chars in fleet fights with few issues. At least any issues you have will not be from your end. Mr Epeen
Galius Zed	Posted - 2010.02.14 02:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: SpearLance Hello, I'm currently planning to build a new computer for eve. I own 4 accounts and up till now, usually only run one at a time. I'd LOVE to be able to run all 4 simultaneously durring a fleet fight. This is my goal. I appreciate your help! Any old computer will be fine. It's the bandwidth you need be concerned about. Start with a T1 line. Or a T3 at 44.736 Mbps. That should run 4 chars in fleet fights with few issues. At least any issues you have will not be from your end. Mr Epeen I don't think this means dusting off that old reliable Timex Sinclair, but, I too agree that bandwidth is your party buster. If you actually config all clients for proper fleet usage (e.g. Brackets, F/X, soundz, etc...), I bet I could get my 3.x P4 HT cranking x4 clients. Wouldn't place bets on doing comms on the same box though vOv
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.14 08:54:00 - [18] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 14/02/2010 08:55:41 Originally by: Tera Charlise I just built a machine to run multi clients as well. The first thing that I would like to point out is that IMO you budget of 1000usd is quite light. I have to disagree. After 1K you're running into seriously diminishing returns (like video cards that cost twice as much for negligible performance increases), and after 2K you're either just being silly or adding lots of shiny flare. If you've got a couple grand to drop every year to have top-of-the-line stuff, thanks, you're paying those prices so the rest of us don't have to. But don't pretend that you somehow can't have a screaming rig on $1000 that can play anything in existence. Six-month-old equipment at a fifth of the price is the way to go. As for the OP, there's $1K and then there's $1K. Do you already have a case/monitor/peripherals/OS? If all you need to do is buy the real hardware, your budget is more expansive.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.02.14 11:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Mr Epeen It's the bandwidth you need be concerned about. Start with a T1 line. Or a T3 at 44.736 Mbps. That should run 4 chars in fleet fights with few issues. At least any issues you have will not be from your end. Hardly. Eve doesn't use a lot of bandwidth..i could probably dualbox on a simple isdn line (i've run one client in fleet situations on a 56k modem..so yeah..). A standard adsl line will be more than sufficient. You should be more worried about getting a ping no greater than 200ms to london..which is out of your control anyways. Btw., i did try to get my system to swap using only eve and wurm clients..i ran out of accounts before i ran out of ram. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
MHayes Caldari Rage For Order Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.14 16:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: SpearLance Hello, I'm currently planning to build a new computer for eve. I own 4 accounts and up till now, usually only run one at a time. I'd LOVE to be able to run all 4 simultaneously durring a fleet fight. This is my goal. I appreciate your help! Any old computer will be fine. It's the bandwidth you need be concerned about. Start with a T1 line. Or a T3 at 44.736 Mbps. That should run 4 chars in fleet fights with few issues. At least any issues you have will not be from your end. Mr Epeen You are wrong, Eve doesn't use much bandwidth at all, your standard DSL connection or cable is fine for many many accounts. But at the same time buying an uber computer doesn't make much difference.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.14 17:12:00 - [21] are you people crazy? you don't need that kind of a computer to run 4 clients. an i5, 4 gigs of ram and a 4870 will run four with ease. and the limiting factor is server side, having an uber rig only helps the e-peen...nothing wrong with that though.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.14 17:26:00 - [22] 1. loading the ships, especialy the textures is the first bottleneck in fleeting. 2. the amount of time it takes the slowest guy in the fleet to send and recieve information is the other relavant factor. -------------------------------------------------- I'm so Old I can remember when QQ was TT
Smoking Blunts	Posted - 2010.02.14 17:35:00 - [23] current set i use is amd 955 8gb ddr3 4870 gigabyte mobo 2x26" monitors and 6 clients. with 4 clients running i get 60fps when 6 are on screen it goes down to 50-60fps. ram sits at about 55-60% some clienst are full grapics some are on low settings i will upgrade to a 5890xfx when they drop in price abit, need a new 26" to go with that bad boy
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.02.14 18:05:00 - [24] Originally by: SpearLance Can you please elaborate why xfire mode is not comparable with eve? Your setup looks exacty like what I'm aimin for, except fitting all 4 eve windows into one monitor. This is the only statement that troubles me. Thank you! Because Eve isn't written in a way that supports multiple GPUs. There was a guy from nVidia at Fanfest 2008 who was part of one of the presentations on the technical side of the game, when asked about it in the Q&A his response was that there'd need to be a patch to enable multiple GPU support. As for building a system to help you out in fleet fights, you'll find that building a solid system will only help you to an extent. The fundamental issues with large scale fleet fights either lie server side or are related to third party network latency. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.02.14 18:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Cipher Jones 1. loading the ships, especialy the textures is the first bottleneck in fleeting. 2. the amount of time it takes the slowest guy in the fleet to send and recieve information is the other relavant factor. None of those are relevant. Ever heard of Lod? Besides, the 3d rendering is pretty fast. It hasn't been the bottleneck since the trinity expansion. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.02.15 14:25:00 - [26] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 15/02/2010 14:26:34 Um.......has anyone actually remembered that fleet fights are laggy because of CCP's node issues? Or is the umpteen hundred people complaining about it a complete and utter mistake on their part? Somehow I think not. But, if your problem is running clients and NOT LAG DUE TO CCP'S NODES do the following: If you want to run four clients, fine. Load up your first client. Go to Jita. Hang outside station 4-4 for a while, say 30 minutes to cache up textures, models, etc. Then press control alt delete, select task manager. Now take a look at the resources Exefile uses. Multiply by 4.25. Press control F in game and check the fps. Divide by 4.25. The math should tell you if you have the memory, the cpu and the GPU to do what you want to do. Running multiple clients is not a proportional division of your resources. There is additional overhead hence multiply/divide by 4.25. Multiplying/dividing should demonstrate if you have enough memory, or tacking your cpu at 100% or close to it which is bad, or if your FPS drops lower than say 25 or 30fps. Your harddrive is a huge bottleneck during read/writes. Optimal harddrive performance is achieved with a RAID array and 4 hard drives. RAID 5 takes advantage of multiple read/writes across multiple harddrive therein increasing overall read/write performance. If you don't want to do RAID then at least get 1 other harddrive and move your swap file to it. It'll help, a little.
malfoy	Posted - 2010.02.15 14:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne We have something at the NSA that can play Crysis maxxed at 1600X900 resolution with 150 FPS, so maybe just mayyyyyybe it could handle a fleet figh.... ahem capital ship fight in Capital Ships Online. Other than that, you're pretty much borked. lol
TheLordofAllandNothing Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2010.02.15 17:46:00 - [28] For a fleet fight, your at the mercy of CCP and their ****ty netcode.(4 hours to load into y-2, good work!). Also put your eve cache file on a ramdisk, i have much improved load times and such since trying that. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.02.15 18:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Mr Epeen Start with a T1 line. You are aware that a T1 line is 1.44 mpbs right? That's significantly less bandwidth than most of the common cable internet packages (at least in the US).
Duncan MacPherson Minmatar Clan MacPherson	Posted - 2010.02.15 19:02:00 - [30] Ah yes - people spending more cash than they need I run 4 accounts no issue Win XP 2 gig ram Intel Dual Core 6700 @ 2.66GHz ATI Radeon HD 4850 DSL - 5meg 2x22" displays - 1920x1080 - EvE x4 accounts on the main screen - Netflix streaming through IE on the second display.

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