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Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.14 20:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Angie McFish on 14/02/2010 21:32:03 I've brought up this subject before, and I'm sure others have too. But I cannot recall any good reasons to why they would be overpowered or anything. We have the guardian-vexor, it's as close as we get as of now. I'd like to remove those turrets and resize it to BS size. maybe one or two high slots for RRs or drone links. Don't give them damage bonuses like the domi one, that way the they will only deal 33% more damage than a domi would, minus the 6 turrets it can equip. I can't see how this would be too overpowered, please enlighten me. You might say that this will be a nber afk grinding boat, but it'll only be 33% more effective than a domi as an afk grinder. Edit: You are allowed to argue with me, I'd appreciate any feedback
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.14 21:59:00 - [2] however a 1/3 dps increase is usually leads to a more than a 1/3 efficiency increase. but I'd love one
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.14 22:05:00 - [3] well, I only did the math in my head, maybe that's why it's faulty. but without drone links this would limit you to 60km range with all skills lvl5. Another reason to why this would be quite ineffective in some cases
NoNah	Posted - 2010.02.14 22:33:00 - [4] All drone boats used to have the +1 drone per level bonus, including the domi. And the drone interfacing used to give another one per level, for a total of 15. This was changed because of lag reasons, much like why the sentry drones got a slower rate of fire. I doubt they'll venture down that road again in a very long time. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 758995
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.14 22:41:00 - [5] well that's a shame. Seems so powerful to field more than five drones no matter the size. very well, but what if these droneboats would have 20% extra damage/lvl, that way they'd still only be 33% more efficient than the domi but minus the 6 turrets. Same thinh really just not as fun
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.02.14 22:43:00 - [6] Originally by: NoNah All drone boats used to have the +1 drone per level bonus, including the domi. And the drone interfacing used to give another one per level, for a total of 15. This was changed because of lag reasons, much like why the sentry drones got a slower rate of fire. I doubt they'll venture down that road again in a very long time. I remember those days I want them back --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.14 22:58:00 - [7] some of us are newbs and will probably never see 5+ drones unless in a carrier then... :(
Aegis Osiris Gallente Peanut Factory BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.02.14 23:11:00 - [8] Doubtful you'll see much of a shift in drone numbers, no. However, the idea of a subcap carrier of some form (Escort Carrier?) has been tossed around before. Its an idea that has some merit, though balance would have to be watched carefully. A subcap, somewhat BS sized carrier, specializing in logistics, adding +1 drone/lvl of the relevant skill, but ensuring that it has less then gankBS level damage (and no fighters!) would, I think, have a role to play without making anything else obsolete. I like violet more then pink. Intereo Infidelis
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.15 02:53:00 - [9] IMO drones have become sort of another "module slot" in that they're more something that most ships get in varying degrees than a specialization. I'd love to see more true drone-as-primary-armament boats, starting with a better drone subsystem for the Proteus, a drone damage mod, a hislot "+1 to drone control number and +25 bandwidth" module, and other things like that.
Cataca	Posted - 2010.02.15 19:15:00 - [10] Seeing as the dominix is allready used as some sort of mini carrier with the remote reps and stuff, or as neut platform with drone dps, i cant see how a mini carrier of BS size can be balanced properly. Tho, i must admit that i would like the idea.
Aegis Osiris Gallente Peanut Factory BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.02.15 19:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Cataca Seeing as the dominix is allready used as some sort of mini carrier with the remote reps and stuff, or as neut platform with drone dps, i cant see how a mini carrier of BS size can be balanced properly. Tho, i must admit that i would like the idea. Pretty easily, actually. Simple balance comes in two spots: 1. Cost. I'd think an 'escort carrier' would likely exceed T3 BS's in cost, perhaps 300 mil? 2. Hi slot flexibility, notably guns. The carriers would not be allowed to fit guns. Generally, a Domi fit for gank with blasters and heavies would do about the same damage or more then an escort carrier. The carrier would be tougher, though Plus, there is th epossibility for a number of drone/ship bonus options to give each race some flavor past the 'damage bounus only' idea I like violet more then pink. Intereo Infidelis
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2010.02.15 20:59:00 - [12] The whole idea of 'light capitals' as a stepping stone between battleships and traditional capital ships has been tossed around for a long time. I'd love to see it, if it's done right, but I doubt that we ever will. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Footoo Rama Gallente Caldari Illuminati	Posted - 2010.02.15 21:06:00 - [13] I want a pony too!!! ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"
AnKahn Caldari Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.16 16:55:00 - [14] Expensive - fully fitted 500+ M isk. SLOOOW - 200 K/S or less under MWD. AB fit so slow you would not want to use for missions. Drones unassignable. Siege mode - immoble but unkillable. 3min?? 100% boost to drone damage? But make siege cool down long and ships EHP reasonable so these things could be killed out of siege unless fleet reps 'em Really a step up from a Domi which is slightly boring to fly after awhile but something you could fly every night unlike a Cap. Something that can use gates and fly with the fleet but would DECREASE the fleets GTFO ability. Might make for some more commited and longer fights at the sub 50 man fleet level. ANd I want a pony too.
Joey Bob The Blood Wraiths	Posted - 2010.02.16 17:14:00 - [15] Edited by: Joey Bob on 16/02/2010 17:17:08 Edited by: Joey Bob on 16/02/2010 17:15:57 It would be nice to see it addressed, the leap from BS to Capital Class ships is huge and all T2 ships only manage to specialise in some way and not allow anything different. A balance has to be stuck to make sure that; a. It wonÆt be suicidal to undock from a station if 2 or more were fighting (lag) b. They shouldn't become be all, end all for high sec ships! More like the Orca is for indy guys, an extra tool to a fleet / remote fitting (pos siege). c. Limit them to but all of a few run able missions (ship restrictions) like every other class ships to stop whoring. d. Get a logistics or drone range bonus (no point having a drone boat that can only send them 60k max). Not sure about a Triage Mode, might make it overpowered to have sick remote rep bonuses. The price should be above and Tier 3 (hype, rokh, abaddon, maelstrom) BS but below that of say a T2 BSÆs (marauders) to make it PVP viable.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.16 18:54:00 - [16] True droneboats don't necessarily need to be bigger than battleships and smaller than capitals. The idea was simply to give some more viable pure drone ships, as opposed to the current guns+drones approach that nearly all current drone ships have. The balance would come from stripping the guns, giving drone ships a much lower damage potential in return for increased versatility (>400 drone bay, >125 bandwidth, >5 drones controlled).
AnKahn Caldari Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.16 20:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame True droneboats don't necessarily need to be bigger than battleships and smaller than capitals. The idea was simply to give some more viable pure drone ships, as opposed to the current guns+drones approach that nearly all current drone ships have. The balance would come from stripping the guns, giving drone ships a much lower damage potential in return for increased versatility (>400 drone bay, >125 bandwidth, >5 drones controlled). Yea but that's the Ishtar. The turrets are really on there for show. If you made a more powerful Ishtar the other HAC would want a word with you. Plus it would be uber PVE. We don't need more of that.
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.16 22:07:00 - [18] I havn't seen much pvp action during my evelife. How much difference do drones make? would another 5 instead of guns make a big difference? Another idea is to make a new kind of drones, almost like bomber fighters but for these dedicated BS droneboats. slightly stronger than a heavy but not nearly as good as a fighter (how much better is a fighter?). That way maybe we wouldn't even need more drones in space.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.16 23:00:00 - [19] Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame True droneboats don't necessarily need to be bigger than battleships and smaller than capitals. The idea was simply to give some more viable pure drone ships, as opposed to the current guns+drones approach that nearly all current drone ships have. The balance would come from stripping the guns, giving drone ships a much lower damage potential in return for increased versatility (>400 drone bay, >125 bandwidth, >5 drones controlled). Yea but that's the Ishtar. The turrets are really on there for show. If you made a more powerful Ishtar the other HAC would want a word with you. Plus it would be uber PVE. We don't need more of that. 1. Ishtar doesn't have >5 drones or >125 bandwidth. 2. Ishtar is a HAC, capping out a weapons system at HAC-level is silly. There isn't a HAC that can fit a full rack of the best BS lasers, missiles, etc. 3. "Uber PvE" is relative. If it does less damage than the Dominix then it is only really "better AFK PvE". If it doesn't have a godly tank then, again, it isn't really top-of-the-line for sleepers or plexes either. I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached.
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2010.02.17 00:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached. 10 bonused Garde IIs with enough room for 3 omnis ? I'm not sure I'd ever need to fly anything else.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.17 00:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Tulisin Dragonflame on 17/02/2010 00:52:57 Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached. 10 bonused Garde IIs with enough room for 3 omnis ? I'm not sure I'd ever need to fly anything else. Heavies would prolly be better, you wouldn't have to be a sitting duck that way. Probably less chance of leaving your attacker a free 10-15mil in drones floating around too.
Footoo Rama Gallente Caldari Illuminati	Posted - 2010.02.17 00:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached. 10 bonused Garde IIs with enough room for 3 omnis ? I'm not sure I'd ever need to fly anything else. Agreed that would be Chuck Norris personal ship... Just call it the snap kick to the face, nothing would survive... Dps would over 900dps up to over 1200 depending on rigs unaffected by any ECM, and 8 lows make a hell of a tank no matter how you look at it either buffer or dual rep. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.17 01:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Footoo Rama Originally by: Zhilia Mann Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached. 10 bonused Garde IIs with enough room for 3 omnis ? I'm not sure I'd ever need to fly anything else. Agreed that would be Chuck Norris personal ship... Just call it the snap kick to the face, nothing would survive... Dps would over 900dps up to over 1200 depending on rigs unaffected by any ECM, and 8 lows make a hell of a tank no matter how you look at it either buffer or dual rep. Hardcapped DPS, in a single resist, that is destroyable by conventional weaponry, completely immobile (heck, capturable when the ship dies/flees). You'd have to deal with the ship a little less conventionally, but it wouldn't be hard to deal with. If you want an immobile high-DPS sniping platform, other battleships do it better.
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.17 16:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame 1. Ishtar doesn't have >5 drones or >125 bandwidth. 2. Ishtar is a HAC, capping out a weapons system at HAC-level is silly. There isn't a HAC that can fit a full rack of the best BS lasers, missiles, etc. 3. "Uber PvE" is relative. If it does less damage than the Dominix then it is only really "better AFK PvE". If it doesn't have a godly tank then, again, it isn't really top-of-the-line for sleepers or plexes either. I'm envisioning something more like: Highs: 3 Meds: 5 Lows: 8 Bonuses: +10 % damage/hp/speed/mining/ewar/range (basically drones are 50 % better at everything on the pure droneboat), +1 to drones controlled per level. Massive drone control range, big drone bay (700m3?), 250 bandwidth (effective hardcap anyways). Mediocre speed, mediocre tank. Ideally we'd want it to have a low enough PG to make neuts un-viable as well, although that wouldn't work with an active armor tank (maybe switch meds and lows?). The idea being to make a ship that is wholly reliant on drones as a weapons/logistic system, instead of being yet another gunboat with some drones attached. I think that would be a bit imbalanced. either a better drone bonus or another +5 drones to field. Not both
AnKahn Caldari Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.17 18:53:00 - [25] So you want a drone boat that's like 2 Domis in one ship with drone links and nav comps built in? Because this is EvE and you know people are going to bring like 20 of these things to the field. The force multiplication factor is just scary. It would be like fighting a bee hive. And they of course would remote rep circle jerking. I'm sure huge cargo holds full of cap boosters. That would be fun.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.02.17 19:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Angie McFish I havn't seen much pvp action during my evelife. How much difference do drones make? would another 5 instead of guns make a big difference? More drones would mean it's more difficult for an attacker to destroy your swarm of drones - which would be a good thing imo. - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
Angie McFish	Posted - 2010.02.17 19:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Denuo Secus Originally by: Angie McFish I havn't seen much pvp action during my evelife. How much difference do drones make? would another 5 instead of guns make a big difference? More drones would mean it's more difficult for an attacker to destroy your swarm of drones - which would be a good thing imo. Well, You can destroy drones whereas you can not destroy guns. I'd say that's a downside with drones.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.02.17 23:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Angie McFish Originally by: Denuo Secus Originally by: Angie McFish I havn't seen much pvp action during my evelife. How much difference do drones make? would another 5 instead of guns make a big difference? More drones would mean it's more difficult for an attacker to destroy your swarm of drones - which would be a good thing imo. Well, You can destroy drones whereas you can not destroy guns. I'd say that's a downside with drones. Ofc, that's the downside of drones. But destroying 10 drones is much more hassle for an attacker than destroying 5. That's why with more drones it wouldn't be that easy to cut the main damage source of a drone ship. In short: More drones = more damage + more difficult to counter As a side note: imho drone ships should do a good bit more damage - even because it's damage source is destroyable. Shoot some of it's drones and cut that damage to 50%...sounds kinda fair to me. - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
AnKahn Caldari Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.18 03:22:00 - [29] So you jump into local and there's four reds. But it's a covert ops and three of these beasts with what 8 lows and 4 mids and a couple of highs. Covert ops provides a warp in and a trio of remote repping massively omnitanked armor tackling webbing guys and 30 bonused Ogres or worse sentried with omnis come visit your ten man gang. Who's going to win?
Sentil Norai Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.18 04:39:00 - [30] To echo everyone else, we've all dreamed of drone "hive ships." I was thinking they could be like the mining barges and belong to a separate faction (ORE in that case); make them captured rogue drone ships or whatnot. I like the ability to deploy more drones as well as increased control range, but without the damage mod (maybe have a new high slot module for that).

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