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SilentHunter13
Eve Defence Force Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.15 03:54:00 -
[1]
Hi all, just wanted to bring to your attention the new toy of everyman and his dog in eve.
The Dramiel.
Now if I remember correctly about the infamous days of riding around in a interceptor going 8km/s or faster, ishtars doing 4km/s and ravens doing similar is long since over due to the nano nerf. However along comes a new change to faction ships and suddenly there is a ship that goes 2x as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor (which might I add is made for speed).
On just about every single fleet roaming around 0.0 space these days there is a dramiel. Gate camps in empire often involve a dramiel and hell while i'm writing this I want to go out and buy a dramiel because I LOVE NANO SHIPs. However, as much as I love nano ships and being super bloody fast with the ability to still do dps I would like some balance instead. If we cannot have nano ships doing stupid speeds how come it is possible to have a frigate that only costs 80million isk but can go at break neck speeds, too fast for anything short of another dramiel to catch and kill. How long will it be before people roam around with dramiel fleets?
Yes I know that this race is a speedy one and that the designers of the dramil were obsessed with speed but the fact that no other ship can reach that speed doesn't make it slightly overpowered as a interceptor replacement?
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Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.15 05:14:00 -
[2]
IT IS ONE SHIP
Leave it alone, that's its niche.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.02.15 05:52:00 -
[3]
obviously overpowered so I'm sure it will be nerfed in next patch or maybe a year or two.
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Amneamnius
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Posted - 2010.02.15 06:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: SilentHunter13 How long will it be before people roam around with dramiel fleets?
http://www.eve-primary.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=18557
you sure are behind the times aren't you.
be patient. it takes at least 1000 gallons of carebear tears for ccp to use the nerfbat...
/crys some moar...
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.02.15 09:48:00 -
[5]
When Dramiels pretty much started to dominate FW minor plexes, I looked at them to see where their weakness was. It was kind of funny to see that it is optimized (well!) for short-range combat, long-range combat (20km falloff with ACs), can fit a good tank, can be extremely fast, etc. etc. - and then I noticed it also has a built-in sensor booster.
Awesome ship.
Nerf please :-)
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.15 10:28:00 -
[6]
hands of the dramiel.
there are ways to kill it and good pilots do kill it.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.15 10:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/02/2010 10:34:47 no ship should be faster than an interceptor. Its the purpose they have been built for and is kinda outperformed by a stupid frigate?? Its just question of time it will be abused, like usual ships in the nano times 1 year ago.
Originally by: darius mclever hands of the dramiel.
there are ways to kill it and good pilots do kill it.
yes, this was said by all the nano fa**ots too, but the efforts to kill such crap are too high and imbalanced imo.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.15 10:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/02/2010 10:34:47 no ship should be faster than an interceptor.
this ------ I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2010.02.15 10:42:00 -
[9]
Yeah current Dramiel is just crazy. I hope they will nerf it faster than later because I like this ship and wants to fly it. But I am waiting now to see how will it be nerfed.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.15 11:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/02/2010 10:34:47 no ship should be faster than angel ships. Its the purpose they have been built for and is kinda outperformed by a stupid t2 interceptor?? Its just question of time it will be abused, like usual ships in the nano times 1 year ago.
Fixed for you.
Funny huh? Angel ships are MORE focused on speed than interceptors therefore they SHOULD be the fastest ones. Also Its not a stupid frig. Its a PIRATE frig. PIRATE stuff SHOULD be equal or SUPERIOR to T2.
ITs PREMIUM CONTENT. It shoudl be better than stupid plain cheap interceptors that everyone can afford.
THe only thing it needs nerfed is its drones.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.15 11:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/02/2010 10:34:47 no ship should be faster than an interceptor. Its the purpose they have been built for and is kinda outperformed by a stupid frigate?? Its just question of time it will be abused, like usual ships in the nano times 1 year ago.
Originally by: darius mclever hands of the dramiel.
there are ways to kill it and good pilots do kill it.
yes, this was said by all the nano fa**ots too, but the efforts to kill such crap are too high and imbalanced imo.
Typical nerf-it-because-I-can't-counter-it mentality. The dramiel also costs 4 or 5 times as much as an interceptor.
That's what no one gets about nanos. The only way they were well and truly good was to invest alot of money in them. People where just too stupid and herdlike to figure this out.
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elenor drifter
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Posted - 2010.02.15 12:25:00 -
[12]
simple get a baddon with t2 beems, wait till the dramiel starts to run when traversal drops below 150 take the shot. dramiel is then dust. i have done this, a target at 50km coming straight at u will pop its logic. o traversal no tracking needed lol
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CommmanderInChief
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2010.02.15 12:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: SilentHunter13 Hi all, just wanted to bring to your attention the new toy of everyman and his dog in eve.
How long will it be before people roam around with dramiel fleets?
Did you have to mention this? Cos now everyone will! and tbh even with the nano nerf, ships are still fast as everything has been brought into line. So a Vaga is still very quick considering other ships. Just now the polys are not as useful etc.
My issue is you have a ship built for speed like a inty, but then has crap range, but now most people use warp scrams, which effects MWD (would you ever not fit a MWD on a inty) so effectively the inty is a bit useless, has to hit anything you have to get pretty much into warp scram range..so i dont understand whats going on here
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SilentHunter13
Eve Defence Force Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.15 22:53:00 -
[14]
Well the vagabond is a fast ship because it tanks with speed, it is made for speed but a vagabond still doesn't go faster than a interceptor. As the other person said "no ship should be faster than an interceptor".
On that subject someone also said "There is tactics to kill and prevent them", this is also true but riddle me this. If I warp onto a field with a curse (arguably one of the most dedicated interceptor hunters) and the dramiel sees my ship, how long before I can lock and neut that dramiel considering it would escape at 8km/s in the complete other direction? With that in mind, the "every ship has its weakness" escuse I used to defend nano ships before the nerf. I LOVED nano ships with a passion but the nano nerfs and nano ships aren't part of this thread, this thread is about the Dramiel and how it can be 2x as fast as a interceptor, the T2 frigate that requires more skills and is made for speed and tackling which should be the fastest ship in the game short of a titan bumping a dreadnaught on a warpin ^^. ------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.15 22:58:00 -
[15]
it is funny you bring the curse as a ship. warriors out, tracking disruptors and neuts on the dramiel. and then wait how long he will have you tackled and will hit you. :)
although i still think a mini recon would work better.
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Red zeon
Caldari Circle of Shadows Black Swan.
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Posted - 2010.02.15 23:15:00 -
[16]
I hawnt flown the ship, but since i have minmatar and gallente frig5, im sure gonna train the minmatar guns after reading this thread.
but hey, its a FRIG that costs 80mil, wich is about 4x more expensive than a bc to put it in perspective. its expensive, whod ly it if it only performs as good as a t2 frig?
also gives back rapier its role back and makes em viable again
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Reggie Stoneloader
JAFA Trade and Manufacturing Cooperative
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Posted - 2010.02.16 00:13:00 -
[17]
It's got, what, a 30km lock range with good skills? Damp it. A couple dampers on the thing and it'll have to be in scram range just to target you. ======================
Crusades: Security Status |
SilentHunter13
Eve Defence Force Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.02.16 01:03:00 -
[18]
You're missing the point. It isn't that it is impossible to kill or that its stupidly hard it is the fact that it is going almost 2x as fast as anything else could ever do ingame.
Towards the fact that you think 80mil is expensive then think again, hell my abaddon costs the better half of 300mil and a t2 fitted hurricane is probably 60mil or 70mil.
It isn't the price, it isn't that it is overpowered because when you think about it yes it is a frigate the point of this thread is pointing out that the dramiel is going faster than a ship should be able to go. I am ok with the Dramiel going as fast as a interceptor or just a little faster but not that fast.
Putting it into perspective an average interceptor pilot would get just about 5km/s with their inty whereas a Dramiel can get 8km/s seemingly without too much trouble. It does tend to defy the point of a nano nerf if you then introduce a ship that goes stupidly fast. Because of this change and the speed it goes it is being used in every single situation i've seen in 0.0 camping or roams. Which brings me neatly back to your point about it being 80mil isk. If it was as expensive as you make it out to be then how come every man and his dog owns one. ------------------------------------------
Analysing and Destroying your arguments since early 2007 :) Enjoy.
Yankee Alpha Romeo Romeo Romeo |
Atreus Tac
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.02.16 02:53:00 -
[19]
to everyone who says that the dram, cynabal and mach are overpowered. learn to use a daredevil, vigilant and vindi. Good ol' 90%webs but the new 'nano' is slower.
Also its one ship, it can hardly do much to a gang and you can beat it solo. [/left] |
Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.16 02:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 16/02/2010 02:58:09
Originally by: Atreus Tac to everyone who says that the dram, cynabal and mach are overpowered. learn to use a daredevil, vigilant and vindi. Good ol' 90%webs but the new 'nano' is slower.
Also its one ship, it can hardly do much to a gang and you can beat it solo.
You missed Cruor,Ashimmu and Bhaalgorn.
But......only counter pirate faction with pirate faction? ------ I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |
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Jim Raynor
Caldari Sinister Corporation
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Posted - 2010.02.16 03:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 15/02/2010 10:34:47 no ship should be faster than angel ships. Its the purpose they have been built for and is kinda outperformed by a stupid t2 interceptor?? Its just question of time it will be abused, like usual ships in the nano times 1 year ago.
Fixed for you.
Funny huh? Angel ships are MORE focused on speed than interceptors therefore they SHOULD be the fastest ones. Also Its not a stupid frig. Its a PIRATE frig. PIRATE stuff SHOULD be equal or SUPERIOR to T2.
ITs PREMIUM CONTENT. It shoudl be better than stupid plain cheap interceptors that everyone can afford.
THe only thing it needs nerfed is its drones.
lol premium content.. yeah it probably shouldn't have drones, the ship is a bit overkill imo but whatever ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Allan Sheperd
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Posted - 2010.02.16 04:09:00 -
[22]
Needs the ol' nerfbat as far as I'm concerned. Nothing short of a recon fleet can catch it. |
Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2010.02.16 04:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Amneamnius be patient. it takes at least 1000 gallons of carebear tears for ccp to use the nerfbat...
Because, as we all know, the only people who wish to discuss game balance issues are carebears. Right?
Also, to address the OP: We don't need 'more nano nerf' because of issues (actual or perceived) with one ship.
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Dianeces
Buttered On The Wrong Side
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Posted - 2010.02.16 04:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SilentHunter13 Hi all, just wanted to bring to your attention the new toy of everyman and his dog in eve.
The Dramiel.
Now if I remember correctly about the infamous days of riding around in a interceptor going 8km/s or faster, ishtars doing 4km/s and ravens doing similar is long since over due to the nano nerf. However along comes a new change to faction ships and suddenly there is a ship that goes 2x as fast as a t2 fitted interceptor (which might I add is made for speed).
On just about every single fleet roaming around 0.0 space these days there is a dramiel. Gate camps in empire often involve a dramiel and hell while i'm writing this I want to go out and buy a dramiel because I LOVE NANO SHIPs. However, as much as I love nano ships and being super bloody fast with the ability to still do dps I would like some balance instead. If we cannot have nano ships doing stupid speeds how come it is possible to have a frigate that only costs 80million isk but can go at break neck speeds, too fast for anything short of another dramiel to catch and kill. How long will it be before people roam around with dramiel fleets?
Yes I know that this race is a speedy one and that the designers of the dramil were obsessed with speed but the fact that no other ship can reach that speed doesn't make it slightly overpowered as a interceptor replacement?
Hi. I, too, believe that eve should be reduced to a game where whoever hits F1-F8 fastest wins. Also, tactics are overrated.
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tla s'hpyt
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Posted - 2010.02.16 09:37:00 -
[25]
what I find hilariously stupid is how since the speed nerf the crusader has been able to outspeed the claw. Someone at ccp seems to have forgoten minmatar are supposed to be the fastest race. I wonder how fast the claw would be if minmatar hadn't been nerfed to hell in a handbasket... probably something like drameriel without the drones.
ah well it's part of the whole minmatar flexibility thing, we can't focus at anything cause we are decent at everything except everything.
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tekpede
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Posted - 2010.02.17 00:18:00 -
[26]
If you can only afford a mustang and I can go and buy a ferrari then do you say "the ferrari shouldn't be faster than the mustang!!" we dont live in a perfectly balanced world, either is eve universe.
Peace
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WeiSuoB
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Posted - 2010.02.17 00:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: tekpede If you can only afford a mustang and I can go and buy a ferrari then do you say "the ferrari shouldn't be faster than the mustang!!" we dont live in a perfectly balanced world, either is eve universe.
Peace
touche
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Final Agony B A N E
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Posted - 2010.02.17 05:39:00 -
[28]
Dramiel will get nerfed. I've been here for a few big nerfs now (NOS, the Myrm/Eos, nano) and this has all the signs of it.
The Dramiel is clearly superior to any reasonable alternative. I have no problems with pirate frigs being good (I think the Daredevil is probably the most balanced of the bunch - it's better than a Taranis but not overwhelmingly so and it costs more than twice as much) but right now for general PvP in a frig there's no reason not to use a Dramiel unless you're one of the poor sods who can't afford them. This is clearly reflected in-game by the fact that you don't see many solo AFs and interceptors anymore, most people are flying the Dramiel instead as it superior in almost every way.
Whenever one choice is so much better than the alternatives that those alternatives are largely obsolete, that one thing *always* gets nerfed. It happened with NOS, it happened with the Myrm and the Eos, it happened to nano ships, it'll happen again. This is why I, personally, don't fly a Dramiel, because I know it's going to get nerfed eventually, and while I'm sure it will still be a good ship it won't be capable of performing at its current level or in the manner that people fly it now.
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Apogee Realms
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Posted - 2010.02.17 07:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
no ship should be faster than an interceptor. Its the purpose they have been built for and is kinda outperformed by a stupid frigate??
Agree with this. Should be slowed down and remove drones bay capacity.
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Rip Minner
Gallente Balthizar Drako Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.17 08:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kessiaan Dramiel will get nerfed. I've been here for a few big nerfs now (NOS, the Myrm/Eos, nano) and this has all the signs of it.
The Dramiel is clearly superior to any reasonable alternative. I have no problems with pirate frigs being good (I think the Daredevil is probably the most balanced of the bunch - it's better than a Taranis but not overwhelmingly so and it costs more than twice as much) but right now for general PvP in a frig there's no reason not to use a Dramiel unless you're one of the poor sods who can't afford them. This is clearly reflected in-game by the fact that you don't see many solo AFs and interceptors anymore, most people are flying the Dramiel instead as it superior in almost every way.
Whenever one choice is so much better than the alternatives that those alternatives are largely obsolete, that one thing *always* gets nerfed. It happened with NOS, it happened with the Myrm and the Eos, it happened to nano ships, it'll happen again. This is why I, personally, don't fly a Dramiel, because I know it's going to get nerfed eventually, and while I'm sure it will still be a good ship it won't be capable of performing at its current level or in the manner that people fly it now.
This is true. Nerf bats dont come flying at CCP in EVE becouse of tears or crying they happen with one single ship makes all the others in its class not worth flying. It will take some time for this nerf bat to come down becouse a hole lot of people are going to have to train for this ship first before X% of players are flying it in place of all the others. And a hole farming market will pop up around this one ship and then CCP will take notice and be like we have to fix that blam nerfbat insereted to X ship or iteam. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
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