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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 14:58:00 -
[1]
Looking at your attack of the drones mission I'd say you are doing exceptionally well time wise. Best solo time I have to date is 33 minutes in a Nightmare (15 minutes to kill, 18 minutes to salvage. With 2 accts. (Abaddon + Golem) I did the mission in 25 minutes. There may be room for better fittings to cut my time but skills for each pilot for respective ship is maxed out (other than the torp and Beam specialization skills are at 4)
Depending on prices, my records show about 22.3 mil for loot/mins/salvage and rewards. I don't have the LP price figured in so your value for the mission is close to what I have.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:09:00 -
[2]
Worlds Collide in 24 minutes? Best I've done 1 hr 50 minutes and thats with 2 accts. One in a Golem and one in a salvage cane. Unless of course you are only doing one side ;) The travel time alone in the first pocket if you are using torps will take 10-15 minutes. So walk us through the time it takes in each of the 4 pockets as I would love to do WC in 24 minutes.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 15:27:00 -
[3]
Ah, I see. I'm an inveterate kill everything and loot/salvage everything. I suppose I will have to look closer at blitzing to increase isk/hour. Also I keep hoping one of the rooms will spawn a dread or shadow BS that will drop something worthwhile but it's been quite awhile sine that has happened. Luckily I get a fair amount of faction drops out in null sec.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:24:00 -
[4]
TBH Anomalies do not compare (at least with gurista) Loot is so so and salvage is not worth the time. while I only use a pair of drakes, still with 2 accts and cherry picking the anomalies I find that 20 mil per hour is average for bounties. Every now and then you will get faction spawn and very rarely a escalation (which are very profitable). Discounting the faction and escalation I'll make more isk per average mining with 2 accts in system with good industry level. TBh anomalies/ratting/mining are all equally "exciting". Unknown cosmic sigs are decent when you can find them.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.21 17:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Mernek Just out of interest, what effect would reducing the mission isk income have on the eve economy? ...
I don't think there'll be any huge effect to be honest, which is not the same as saying things wouldn't change.
I think there will be a big change. First of all, maybe 5% of people who do missions are making isk on the level you do. A lot will run a couple of missions a day, most in vanilla t1 of tier 2 ships (why do I know this? Just watch the ships undock where lvl 4 agents are at). Those people who look towards one day flying a faction BS or a Marauder do so with the expectation of a reasonable return on their investment. That is to say, how much more will they garner in income from the same mission by using a billion isk ship over a 100 million isk ship and how long will that difference take to recoup the cost of the more expensive ship? If you chop rewards/bounties by 50% the margins will not be there and thus a lot of people will not look at buying marauders. Same will go for faction mods. Why spend 200 mil for one mod when again the return on investment is so low? If the market no longer supports the building of marauders, people will just stop building them as their return on investment (and time) will be lessened. The unpredictability of how the market will react is enormous.
Perhaps, instead of nerfing loot drops, it is time CCP introduced mins that can only be mined from asteroids? Perhaps instead of trying to downgrade missions to be in line with miners, mining should be upgraded in high sec so isk earning is comparable to missions? Why not have agent from say Astral Mining, give missions only accomplished by miners with the new and more profitable ores? Why not have marauder like mining vessels be introduced? Who says all missions have to revolve around shooting npc's?
While we're at it, just so all you traders sitting there smirking at this discussion, why not nerf the trading industry? We all know how much isk is being made there. Lets triple or quadruple the fees associated with trading and make it more in line with what miners make. For the low sec pirates wanting lvl 4 missions taken out of high sec, how about CCP makes stations where you buy and sell only in low sec? How do you traders feel about that?
If we are going to gore the mission runners ox, lets look at everyones ox and see how we can roast theirs also.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.21 18:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Lrrp Perhaps instead of trying to downgrade missions to be in line with miners, mining should be upgraded in high sec so isk earning is comparable to missions?
I did consider that, but look at the current mineral market (people self-destructing battleships for ISK). The LAST thing that market needs is MORE minerals.
The only way you COULD raise miners income would be to raise insurance (as that is what sets current prices). This would introduce an even more horrendous ISK faucet which is definitely not needed either!
This is the reason I suggest removing basic T1 loot from the missions. It'd provide a quick boost to the mining profession, and a nerf to primarily the Marauders.
You missed the part of creating new mineral types. Much like the worm hole gas clouds, missions could have their own type of mine-able materials. In short you would not have to nerf mission loot and most certainly not have to raise insurance rates.
Originally by: Lrrp While we're at it, just so all you traders sitting there smirking at this discussion, why not nerf the trading industry?
Originally by: Kerfira Because the trading industry is completely inert to the EVE resource balance.
They don't create minerals, they don't create ISK or anything else. They just move it around. Effectively, they have exactly NULL effect on the ingame resource balance (in fact they're a sink because of taxes).
Not exactly. When I take my loot back to station I have 2 real choices ( a third being keep it and use it). I can sell or reprocess. If I sell then it is the traders who set the value of the item. While on the one hand you can say they moved it around, the other way to look at it is they inject isk both to me and to themselves for the profit they will make. My other choice is to melt the loot down and use the mins to build my own items. If I do that then in a way I am taking isk out of the system because I am not buying the item I am making. The only true injection of isk are the rewards and bounties one earns. While missions are the only way to earn straight up rewards isk, bounties are also made by ratting so bounties cannot be viewed as a lvl 4 mission issue.
Originally by: Kerfira Missions, mining and exploration all CREATE ingame resources, and especially for minerals that balance is fubahr'd at the moment. Apart from the balance between professions, that is a secondary goal....
Well you can say the same for ratting and invention. Both do not create isk. Industry is the same way. Whatever is made is based upon a injection of something given by npc's. the end winner is the trader who runs no risk, has a minimal training curve and survives based on the labor of others.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.22 01:56:00 -
[7]
I'm kinda with Liang. There is a problem with reducing isk generating tasks like mission bounty's and rewards. To illustrate, lets look at a extreme where no bounties or rewards are given. The isk faucet in effect is shut off. What isk is available is now finite. While, as kerfira states, traders just shuffle isk about there is also something else going on. Traders are also shuffling goods around. If the isk faucett were to be turned off the law of diminishing returns crops up but kinda in reverse. Ask liquid isk becomes less and less available from things being built, items being bought will be less and less. You can have billions of isk worth of moon goo but if no one has any currency to buy it...then what?
One option would be some sort of barter system would arise but I hardly think the bulk of Eve players would care to play a game based on barter. You might think insurance fraud might be a option but that would be doomed to failure as you still need liquid isk to purchase a insurance policy. What some of you are not seeing is that eve needs a isk faucet to survive. With the advent of Dominion you need loads of liquid isk just to maintain sov. which is one place where isk goes back into the faucet.
So to say that the isk faucet in lvl 4 missions needs to be reduced is not looking at the whole games of Eve, just a narrow band that is in high sec. The whole of Eve needs isk being pumped into it as the toys keep getting more and more expensive. The impact of reducing the isk faucet had dang well be looked at very closely. I'm kinda at a point where I'm not so sure the faucett shouldn't be opened a bit more. Where the isk comes from could be anywhere not just level 4 missions.
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.13 03:17:00 -
[8]
Level 4's, wormholes, ratting, trading....are all small change. If you really want to be at the top of the isk game, start a corp and get a lot of people to join. Then set the corp tax to 15% and let the members fatten the corp wallet up, of which only you have control of. You won't have to do a thing to earn isk from then on.
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