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Aw Kasenumi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 11:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wanted to hear some opinions about this. This is an alt but i have lived in null for 5 years now and been in several alliances and also the 'larger' ones. In all my years ive hardly ever seen a friendly FC. What i notice is that when FC's get to cranky or just downright insulting etc. alliances dont live long cause people are not gonna enjoy being in a fleet with you and with every cta the numbers drop. The friendly FC's that i have seen could manage great fleets as they got sympathy from pilots and people just generally enjoy themselves, but for some reason these FC's dont stick around for to long or they feel the pressure from alliance leadership and move along. Now i keep wondering why FC's are generally assholes cause in my opinion they gain absolutly nothing and are there alliances around who only deal with friendly FC's? |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
98
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 12:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
No
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEKpbslHYFM |
Aw Kasenumi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 12:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hahahaha that was so funny. Post in fleet so i can call you faggots xD. |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 12:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********. |
Dark Pangolin
Snuff Box
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 12:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
FCs can be friendly if they fly in relatively small fleets (10-15) of people they have been flying with for a while, who know what to do and how to do it. Usually most FCs burn out (I did) after while mostly because if you become known as "the FC" every time you log on all you hear is "fleet?...are you doing a fleet?" and you can;t always dedicate 3 hours to EVE...
Anyway tehre are friendly FCs they just get cranky when they have to repeat themselves over and over on the basics...I only remember losing my temper once though...and I never asked anyone to post in fleet :) |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
82
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 12:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
FCs can be friendly and usually they are the more friendly the smaller the fleet is. FCing can be really an exhausting and though job, sometimes worser than a bad real life job. Therefore FCs usually burn out if the fleets geting too large (large fleet = many people doing dumb things) or the operation is going for a too long time.
Naturally it depends at the end on the FC and how serious he takes his "job of FCing". |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********.
As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed.
There are some key issues that casse FC Meltdown
1. PPL not being ready at Form up 2. PPL coming in the wrong ships 3. Fail Jumps 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this) 5. Split damage. 6. PPL saying "i'm at the planet" "he jumped" "big fleet on the gate" rather then "Eddie 's on planet 3 at 100km" "target jumped from Tama to Kedama" "Fleet of *insert detailed fleet* on the Tama gate in Kedama. 7. PPL feeling the need to tell the whole fleet when their inty blows up 8. Firing on cyno's without being asked for 9. Random and pointless comms chatter
wish I had never started this list, it can go on.
but the biggest wind up for all time, is back seat FCs who NEVER step up.
Edd |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2568
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote: As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed.
There are some key issues that casse FC Meltdown
1. PPL not being ready at Form up 2. PPL coming in the wrong ships 3. Fail Jumps 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this) 5. Split damage. 6. PPL saying "i'm at the planet" "he jumped" "big fleet on the gate" rather then "Eddie 's on planet 3 at 100km" "target jumped from Tama to Kedama" "Fleet of *insert detailed fleet* on the Tama gate in Kedama. 7. PPL feeling the need to tell the whole fleet when their inty blows up 8. Firing on cyno's without being asked for 9. Random and pointless comms chatter
wish I had never started this list, it can go on.
but the biggest wind up for all time, is back seat FCs who NEVER step up.
Edd
"I'm tackled I'm tackled I'm going under attack I'm going into armour hEEEEEELP!"
"Who was just speaking and where are you?"
"GET HERE NAO! PLEASE HELP, GET THEM OFF ME!"
"Repeat location and composition of hostile fleet?"
"NEED REPS NEED REPS NOW!"
"FFS we can't help if we don't know anything about your situation!"
(third voice)
"I think he's in a sanctum in 4B-NQN"
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
251
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Almity, on the Amarr side is a great FC IMO and extremely friendly to boot. |
Gunthar X
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
FC's get grumpy and a bit hostile because:
They must train level 5 Cat Herding
They must always be aware that those fleet members who have been in the area and in EVE for 2 months are better at tactics and life in general than the rest of the fleet and the FC so they should be listened to and everyone should do what they say.
If fleet members are ignoring orders, tying up comms, jumping without commands, and generally acting like lemmings then its your fault entirely.
Every single ship matters so in the middle of a 600 man fight with capitols you should be aware that the tech 1 fitted BS that is not with the fleet and sitting on the gate tackled is the singularly most important ship in the universe and should be treated as such.
If you take a fleet out and do not kill all of EVE with your mighty frigates then you failed as an FC and should learn to play.
When you are FC for a 20 man destroyer gang and you run from a 15 man RR BS gang with triage carrier support then you are scared to engage and should be publicly ridiculed.
Kill mails are more important than objectives so you should always strive for the maximum amount of KM's even if you lose the entire fleet and three POS's because you at least got kills.
In all seriousness some FC's are just naturally mean and hurt peoples feelings, it is usually not intentional however if you are leading fleets every single night and constantly dealing with annoyances, constant criticism, and stupid people then it will push you off the deep end.
Being an FC is like beating your head against a brick wall sometimes so understand that most long term FC's get sick of dealing with the stupidity and get a little grumpy. Unless they are being hostile and counterproductive then it is just a normal phase for the FC. If they are constantly treating people like crap and being abusive then they will end up losing creditability and the ability to FC. People join you because they like to fly with you and feel like they get something out of the experience however do not get upset if you do something stupid and get people killed and the FC calls you out for it. |
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Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
220
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********. As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed.
Confirming Eddie is calm, allmost as calm as I am.
Tbh it depends a lot on how well the fleet manages to keep the FC in a good mood. If 20 ppl link me fits to confirm this is what I wanted, I have to point out 10 of those fits are wrong and what they should change and as a result we are 30 minutes delayed on formup, then I'm already in a **** mood when we are ready to go. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gunthar X wrote:FC's get grumpy and a bit hostile because:
They must train level 5 Cat Herding
They must always be aware that those fleet members who have been in the area and in EVE for 2 months are better at tactics and life in general than the rest of the fleet and the FC so they should be listened to and everyone should do what they say.
If fleet members are ignoring orders, tying up comms, jumping without commands, and generally acting like lemmings then its your fault entirely.
Every single ship matters so in the middle of a 600 man fight with capitols you should be aware that the tech 1 fitted BS that is not with the fleet and sitting on the gate tackled is the singularly most important ship in the universe and should be treated as such.
If you take a fleet out and do not kill all of EVE with your mighty frigates then you failed as an FC and should learn to play.
When you are FC for a 20 man destroyer gang and you run from a 15 man RR BS gang with triage carrier support then you are scared to engage and should be publicly ridiculed.
Kill mails are more important than objectives so you should always strive for the maximum amount of KM's even if you lose the entire fleet and three POS's because you at least got kills.
In all seriousness some FC's are just naturally mean and hurt peoples feelings, it is usually not intentional however if you are leading fleets every single night and constantly dealing with annoyances, constant criticism, and stupid people then it will push you off the deep end.
Being an FC is like beating your head against a brick wall sometimes so understand that most long term FC's get sick of dealing with the stupidity and get a little grumpy. Unless they are being hostile and counterproductive then it is just a normal phase for the FC. If they are constantly treating people like crap and being abusive then they will end up losing creditability and the ability to FC. People join you because they like to fly with you and feel like they get something out of the experience however do not get upset if you do something stupid and get people killed and the FC calls you out for it.
^^ this ^^
Honestly this is why i gave up on FCing...
to all you super wind up and verging on emo breakdowns FCs, back here... on the back of the bus, it's all rainbows and ponies... just saying..
and to the millions of back seat FCs who know it all and risk nothing... put up or for the love of baby cheesus... shut the **** up |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lock out wrote:eddie valvetino wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********. As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed. Confirming Eddie is calm, allmost as calm as I am. Tbh it depends a lot on how well the fleet manages to keep the FC in a good mood. If 20 ppl link me fits to confirm this is what I wanted, I have to point out 10 of those fits are wrong and what they should change and as a result we are 30 minutes delayed on formup, then I'm already in a **** mood when we are ready to go. Generally speaking the more the fleet members understand game mechanics and can work with general guidlines from the FC rather than detailed step by step indications, the calmer the FC will most likely be.
confirmed Lock's FCing style is like listerning to angels singing you to sleep..
and he makes another fair point, as fleets grow so does the number of twats in them. Lock I know has been primary FC in corps too, this adds yet another level of annoyance. FCing is hard work, it's as much as a grind as running plexes or missions. When that becomes night after night... often dealing with the same stupid quesions over and over... and the same ppl ******* up. Often these guys are your mates too.. this adds more spice as you feel let down my your mates sometimes... then we have the times you as an FC **** up and lose your mates fleet... if you think FCs don't feel bad about that... you're wrong, if you don't think we spend hours going over it, trying to make sure we don' **** up again.. you're wrong, if you think that losing your poxy T2 fitted BS give your the right to a voice... guess what.. you're wrong
So speaks Edd |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Had a couple great FCs in Minmatar FW... I'd fly with them again any day.
I've also had more than a few complete idiots, and a few guys who really needed to step away from the computer and get a life. |
L0rdF1end
Mainly AFK
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 15:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
You don't win by being nice and friendly. The best FC's moslty come across as arragant arse faces. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
234
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 17:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yes |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 17:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Small gangs with veteran pilots yes, big gangs / inexperienced players no.
Heres why. In my opinion you have to lead the fleet with an iron fleet in sizable fleets. I consider any thing larger then 15+ to fall into this category simply because you know have 15 people that try to think for themselves. I want my fleets to be clear, professional and organized. If the fleet isnt in that manner I get mad.
The biggest issue is exactly what others posted, the biggest thing that irritates me is:
1) Comms clutter 2) PPL jumping when I specifically tell them to hold on gate - cant tell you how irritated this makes me 3) Bad intel
I try to go over a pre flight "dum dum" check list to prevent this. But those 3 things irritate the crap outta me.
A good FC needs to make sure everyone in the fleet understands clearly his orders and when other people dont listen or do something dumb its a cancer that needs to be cut quickly.
The other thing I make sure is if it is a "casual fun fleet" to tell people prior to going out. Otherwise they know ok bolster isnt my friend anymore hes FC and wants discipline.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 19:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Small gangs with veteran pilots yes, big gangs / inexperienced players no.
Heres why. In my opinion you have to lead the fleet with an iron fleet in sizable fleets. I consider any thing larger then 15+ to fall into this category simply because you know have 15 people that try to think for themselves. I want my fleets to be clear, professional and organized. If the fleet isnt in that manner I get mad.
The biggest issue is exactly what others posted, the biggest thing that irritates me is:
1) Comms clutter 2) PPL jumping when I specifically tell them to hold on gate - cant tell you how irritated this makes me 3) Bad intel
I try to go over a pre flight "dum dum" check list to prevent this. But those 3 things irritate the crap outta me.
A good FC needs to make sure everyone in the fleet understands clearly his orders and when other people dont listen or do something dumb its a cancer that needs to be cut quickly.
The other thing I make sure is if it is a "casual fun fleet" to tell people prior to going out. Otherwise they know ok bolster isnt my friend anymore hes FC and wants discipline.
this is sooo true
Small gangs largely get away with a few "talkers" in fact, it can be really helpful.. so comms much less of an issue, but you scale that beyond 15/20 with split fleets, bat phones and back up to coordinate and it gets real, many times I have had to take my headset off for 15 seconds just to think. FW fleets are the worst for this.
It's sad to say, i've killed more than one guy from fleet and comms for not shutting the fudge up or feelings his opinion is needed.
Jumping gates is maybe the single most annoying thing, along with firing on cynos mid fight without orders, many traps have failed to be sprung or bat phones failed to arrive due to trigger happy morons.
At the end of the day, it comes down to this, i think... if you agree to fly under an FC then you should follow orders, shut up unless you're asked to speak and if you think your FC is wrong, go FC yourself.. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 20:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you fleet with people you know it's not usually a big deal. Even when someone (OK, I admit it, usually I) does something stupid like drop a bomb on the wrong target it's usually just funny.
Larger fleets are going to operate better with the chatter kept to a minimum, though, so the ones that run the smoothest are probably going to have FCs that are more "professional" than "friendly". Outright abusiveness is likely a bit counterproductive as well, but if you're talking 30+ people in a single chat the joviality and dicking around usually needs to stay in the corp channel. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
86
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 21:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
We used to have a term we called 'the right to speak' Because when some guy's give intel, it is important, relevent, current. And then they are silent until something else important comes up. I always liked to hear these ppl's voice.
If a newb was in fleet and started babbling on about this or that. He always wondered, "why can that guy talk and I can't?" We would explain the 'rights' to him and try to let him enjoy the fleet without being a d*ck to him.
I think 75% of the people in EVE are adults, and want to be treated in an adult fashion. I also think they know the difference between 'firm command' and just plain ass holes.
I have to admit, I like small fleets better. I also have to admit, FC is a JOB! You try your best and still there will be people that b*tch
Things I hate: Guy's that warp off and expect me to come save them. Guy's that have no comms at all. People that post Youtubes and **** in fleet. Split DPS People that engage too slow. 'Runners" Pilots that want to run at the first instinct. People that want to commandere your fleet. Fleets where NOBODY can take over if FC dies.
I look at killmails after fights. I can tell who was participating and who was derping.
|
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Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 21:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: 1) Comms clutter 2) PPL jumping when I specifically tell them to hold on gate - cant tell you how irritated this makes me 3) Bad intel
This. If an FC can't control his/her comms, sh!te happens. Been in plenty of fleets where different people called out different orders, INCLUDING "jump jump jump"... FC didn't say crap.
If I don't know someone now, I don't fleet with them. Period. |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 06:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
The opening question is "Can FC's be friendly?"
My answer is yes he or she can be or rather, should be.
It can be argued that a stern and somewhat mean FC can get good results and command great respect and acquire quite a following. However when it goes wrong that FC will take a massive ego hit and will take a long time to come around and confidently try again. That FC will also place blame everywhere except on them selves. It's no wonder they burn out fast. Its a tough act to follow.
The freindly FC can also get great results aswell as some pretty nasty losses. The big diference is the ability to move onto the next situation better mentally able to handle it. Longivity ensues.
A good FC, which is something else and only comes with time, leaves little to chance. They will assess as much as they can and then communicat orders with great effiency. They leave no mistake in explaining what is to happen and what is expected.
So it can be said the real best FC's in game usually come from the friendly camp. If only because they last longer and gain more experience in general at FC'ing.
A point to always remember wether in a gang of 3 or in a gang of 600. This is not Tsun Zu's Art of War it's Eve-OnlineGäó It's just a bunch of guys trying to enjoy a video game who don't mind the odd loss here and there.
Make it fun!! |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 09:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
I remember once I was on a fleet with a friendly FC. He was extremely polite and when people accidently jumped through a gate he didn't curse them out. When people talked at innapropriate times or during fighting he didn't tell them to shut up like most FCs would. If someone couldn't bring an Armor BC sure a Shield Cruiser was fine. When people fell behind or didn't follow warps he didn't leave them behind, he made sure to patiently wait and hold the fleet until they could catch up. Needless to say it was a very positive fleet, except for the fact that it didn't kill anything and died horribly in a fireball, which noone really had fun on and was a completely unorganized mess.
Theres a difference between being friendly and running fun fleets.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 14:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Some FCs have more patience than others, but FC'ing a mid to large sized fleet can be quite the blood-pressure raising experience. Imagine this if you would, you are playing StarCraft or some other RTS, you tell your units to go attack the enemy units. Only half your units actually attack the enemy, well the other half go in the completely wrong direction. You also have two zealots (or marines or zerglings) who had way to much to drink and they are talking over your commands. Yeah that's what FC'ing is like.
Also if you have ever been a substitute teacher for a 1st grade class, FC'ing holds much similarities to that. |
Sominus Nexus
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 14:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Working with a handful of skilled, pilots is about as close as I get, but It's not like being an FC. Everyone more or less knows what to do, and you can take opinions into account "do you guys want to engage?". Those of you that have the PATIENCE to run larger fleets have my utmost respect! We need dedicated FC's, and for members of fleets who's feelings are hurt because the FC called you out on being a lemming, or fitting like a moron Get over it!
TL,DR an FC can be nice up to the point where it hurts his fleet, then he has to do his job. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 16:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Couple of points here I like to make comment on.
I think being friendly may well get you respect and it may also stop ppl logging. But in truth I think results are what counts, I few chaps that have made comment know me, pretty well... neither have ever had me balling them out on comms as an FC, but then... neither have ever screwed up. Both however have seen me rip someone a new one. I think i'm right in saying both would also have me FC. Perhaps (though I might be pushing things here) would "trust" me to lead their corp into nearly any type of fight.
and that is results based. of this i'm certain.
Also, on another note.. we are viewing this in the cold light of day. hindsight is always 20/20 and I know for sure I have regretted the way I have spoken to some chaps, after the fact. But in the white heat of battle, as has been mentioned in this thread... things get strange. FCing is hard bloody work.. even when things go well and to plan. When things go south and they do for nearly every FC, damn that is hard work. Combat lasting any more then 20/30 is like doing a days work. FC'd a fight of Gal Mil vs R'n'K couple of years ago, (we lost... or should i say "I" lost). That was some 72 minutes long. Was honestly drained both mentally and emotionally.
Pinky, makes a good point too.
At the end of the day all FCs have their ways and it's all about results, friendly or a fowl mouthed arrogant asshat, if you win... people will fly under you.
|
Shadow Adanza
Colonial Marines EVE Division Villore Accords
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 20:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
There's a time to be nice and there's a time to get on to people for being ******* idiots. Unfortunately, I sometimes fall in the ******* idiots category. All in good fun, though. I'm just a Caldari pilot fighting for the Gallente in Minmatar and Amarr ships. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 20:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
I want to add a couple of points also.
Perception/Attitude: eddie mentioned a 72 minute fight against R'n'K that he 'lost'. My first thought was, Effing Awesome! 72 minutes of serious PvP against some of the best in the game. Ship loss is way down on the list imo. That had to be gaming at its finest. My point is, players perception will be all over the place, but if you ave a fleet with positive attitude, it goes a long way.
The Fleet makes the FC. He cannot accomplish one goal without them. Would be like saying the pitcher is the only important player, or the quarterback does it all on his own. Every player needs to do his job or the FC cannot succeed.
You can fake ignorance, but you cannot fake brilliance: Good FC's have moments of brilliance. Perception, timing, experience, all come together for glorious battles.
....Sometimes it's just not YOUR FC. Sometimes it's the other FC and there is nothing you can do about it.
Last point: Most FC's want to do good. They know what failed and what worked. If you can do better, then run a fleet. Otherwise support them and be constructive. Otherwise you will find yourself and your corp with 1 LESS FC.
This whole, long thread, is just an indicater of how multi-faceted the job of FC is. Many issues have not even been touched on. Spies, personalities, strangers, RL, etc. Can he be friendly? Calm is more important imo.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
148
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 22:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scorps hit it right on the head.
Not all twats that FC are good FCs, and not all 'nice guys' that FC are terrible.
My respect is always with the good FCs, but those FCs who are on some ego trip and forgetting they are getting all emo about some spaceship game most people play to have fun (and not be screamed at).
I'm 35 and if anyone spoke to me the way you hear on comms sometimes in real life they'd get their head kicked in. I don't see why spaceships and internet anonymity should allow these twats an outlet to just be a ****. I pity the people who fly with these morons because they're too afraid or whatever to FC themselves. Personally I reckon more people should just start fleets themselves and see how they go with less pressure on "results" - so long as folks are having fun losses shouldn't be an issue.
I should add most FCs are fine coz they aren't twats unless folks properly deserve it, but some of the FC comms you hear (especially some of those Null wanker FCs in vids) with people on some massive ego trip - Well those guys need a good real world scouse-style kickin' to learn some respect for their fellow human beings.
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Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
49
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 23:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
To the OP: yes, FCs can be friendly, as long as the pilots in their fleet are competent and willing to work with a friendly FC. If they insist on doing stupid **** or being pests, it becomes a matter of either forcefully correcting their errors or allowing the quality of the fleet to degrade. I think most people would rather not cater to the babies and dimwits, and have only so much time to spend on educating the inexperienced, which results in many FCs getting a bit frustrated and going off. |
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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
334
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 01:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
They are under a massive amount of pressure casuing them stress, they want to win for themselves and for their gang for future gangs etc.
Internet Spaceships is a serious busniess and loosing them for other people is not taken lightly. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 03:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
An FC starts out friendly.
But then it starts. At first people will as 'is there a fleet up' when a single incursus comes by a system. Then they will ask where the fleet is when it's been clearly stated in the fleet description. Then they won't have comms or a mic. They will be incapable of reporting intel with numbers and system names. People will bring the wrong ships. People will have horrendous fittings despite there being standardised fleet ships.
After all that the FC will get shouted at for losing a gang.
And then they become insane. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
188
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 10:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
FC is the leader of the fleet ... hes there to do a very specific job as you as a fleetmember should be too.
He aint there to cuddle you and your "unique snowflake" ego ... You can be all nice untill something goes wrong .. then its plain cold businesstime.
Some people just cant handle taking orders and listening to a commaning tone of voice. The problem aint in the FCs being all mean .. its in you being a ***** and unfit to follow orders without bursting to tears about not being individually asked in a kind fashion. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 13:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
My first experience of FC'ing was taking a bunch of players who normally did industry and missions out on a lowsec roam. I specified small ships - nothing bigger than cruiser sized and no expensive stuff as it was supposed to be just a learning experience.
I had read up on FC role and had a pre flight check list, the usual stuff - know your ranges, set your orbit range, ammo and drones, paste etc..
So, we had about ten guys, mostly in t1 frigates and me in a cheap fit thorax.
I struggled to stay calm in the ensuing chaos as half my guys didn't have voice comms and the ones who did wouldn't shut up, people jumping gates without being told, or aligning to the wrong gate and we had to wait for them to catch up etc..... It also didn't help that I was also dual boxing with a forward scout.
BUT, even though we all got killed after an hour or so of roaming and getting a few cheap ass kills - It was fun!
I guess my point is that if you stop enjoying being an FC then it's time to stop. It IS only a game after all. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
StonerPhReaK
Galactic Supernova Federation
66
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 14:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Most FC's dont just "play" eve. For them EvE is REAL!.
Outside of FC'ing the same cats that are all OMFG DO NOT BUMP THE TITAN! are pretty chill.
Never take anything to heart. Know that under stress anyone will nerdrage. Most of all remember to have fun, Because it is just a game. Please do not point out alt-posting, CCP considers that trolling and will take action. |
Almity
Imperial Outlaws
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 00:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Almity, on the Amarr side is a great FC IMO and extremely friendly to boot.
AWWWWW that's so nice of you!
|
Dood Maker
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 12:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:FCs can be friendly if they fly in relatively small fleets (10-15) of people they have been flying with for a while, who know what to do and how to do it. Usually most FCs burn out (I did) after while mostly because if you become known as "the FC" every time you log on all you hear is "fleet?...are you doing a fleet?" and you can;t always dedicate 3 hours to EVE...
Anyway tehre are friendly FCs they just get cranky when they have to repeat themselves over and over on the basics...I only remember losing my temper once though...and I never asked anyone to post in fleet :)
A very good point.
I must add that because you are a friendly FC most want to fly with you and will add you to their friends list allot faster then the idiot that just shouts at them.
I think corp ceo's or senior players in corps need to have a rule that if you in a alliance of FW that before you join a fleet you need to have done a basic Fleet coms and role course that will be given to the newer players. (Myself and a mate got this done to us when we were 3days old and it has for ever helped me)
If I fc im always nice and explain things to people that dont know things and I dont really mind the odd noob questions but when its time to get the party started and you holding on the gate waiting for the others to jump to you and you have a new player jump the gate when you asked him to warp to it only or then ask stupid questions I want to freak out. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1859
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 14:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bad players who do stupid stuff and lose their ships inevitably blame the FC. Eventually this wears down the FC and the bitterness becomes permanent. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
You guys need to see Elise Randolph in action. Dude is so chill you would think he was in a coma while FCing. Does everything with a calm, nonchalant voice while at the same time always being in absolute control. I guess thats what comes with experience and taking pleasure in actually playing Eve rather than just being an angry bittervet. THE DOVITANI FOR CSM |
Smegma Cheesedog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 20:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Only the FCs that are worm beyotches IRL like Damar and Gunnyt |
|
StoneCold
Praetorian Cannibals
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 08:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
tl:dr
Imo a FC with the "aura of rage" is a good fc. (Most or at least some) People will focus their thing between the ears towards whats going on just for not getting called out in "public". Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve).
Also: If a gang gets melted there are (gang -fc -scouts(maybe)) = ppl raging at (fc + scouts (maybe)). Even if it-¦s only a videogame (lol, someone still claiming that?) there-¦s a HUGE weight on the FC shoulders.
EDIT: and ofc raging fcs can be very entertaining (and i m pretty sure shadoo used this also for sidekicks and comedy to keep peeps entertained while our pods slowly turned blue). |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
160
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 08:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve). Shadoo is one of the most chill FCs that i've flown with. You (the whole fleet) has to do really stupid things, to get him raging like in the famous armor hac recording. |
StoneCold
Praetorian Cannibals
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 08:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
My Shadoo-experience lies a couple years back. Maybe he turned old :P. |
Alhena Arvo
Interstellar H00kers
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well.. FC should be a good commander. It's first. Everything else - is secondary importance. Anyway, we all know that all make mistakes, commanders and pilots. In my opinion, only FC who can control their emotions in any situation can be really great FC. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
84
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Let me tell you about how friendly Elise Randolph is. Despite being one of the prime cat herders in PL for nearly 2 years I'm pretty sure he's only ever not been nice once. And it took a major fuckup to anger him, and it lasted it whole 2-3 minutes after which he apologized. CAUTION
SNIGGS |
Noisrevbus
156
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 16:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hi,
I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:
I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.
It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see things such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.
The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it.
Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong. |
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier The-Machine
355
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 22:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:people yelling "battlecoms"
But "battlecoms" sounds so cool. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 02:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Almost all the good FC's I have had the privilege of flying with have had a certain presents about them. Friendly for the most part, but all have the potential of getting annoyed at times.
Things about most is, they are focused, calculating, and fast effective thinkers. One I remember fondly was a guy called Plague black, (I'm unfortunately fighting against him, but flown in many many of his fleets) This guy had a certain mastery. He could pick apart much larger fleets on a regular basis. I miss em. Never really saw the guy angry, even once. |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 02:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote: 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this)
The root of the problem right here. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
GavinGoodrich
State Protectorate Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 05:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night |
|
Shang Fei
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
23
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 07:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nope :D |
XNordak BalremX
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 11:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Funny **** |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
66
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
*Noob theory crafting here, bullshit might be abundant.*
I think people should use more officers and sergents, decentralizing a part of the FC's portfolio.
Sergants take care of fits are correct, have private comms with their squad, on whisper channel with FC etc.
Officers prepare intel, organize the sergents, prep the fleet etc.
Ofcourse good fc's burnout if they have to:
assemble fleet check fleet order fleet consider tactical issues consider strategic issues etc.
No real life military commander has direct control of each trooper. If you guys have a good FC, make sure to have people to help out where they can.
Let me also note, that from irl experience, good leaders are often competent but perfectionists. they tend to want to control every asepct, not knowing how fast they will burnout themselves. Often it is up to a group of managers to assure that the leader does not have too many tasks.
Create FC groups, assign sub-commanders, fleet checkers, scout groups, intel groups what not and I think the good FC's might not burn out so fast. Same applies to CEO's. "Playing" large corps in EVE is such a job that real management issues and considerations should be used. Do it LEAN! |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
211
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Hi,
I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:
I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.
It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see delegation such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.
The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it. It's insanely uncommon to see well organised corporations and fleets.
Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong.
Battlecomms are for tryhard nerds that take the game way too seriously. In my experience, fleets that seem poorly organized also lack the appropriate pony soundboards.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
March rabbit
Gansa. Legion of xXDEATHXx
210
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
i know quite some good and friendly FC's. One of them is PrimeKiller. Funny british person. I very recommend him. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
GavinGoodrich wrote:We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night
Hey Gavin
what you said meight, spot on...
Back in Bi-Polar Bears, ops would be posted, by mail, by fourm and the corp calender... oh and the "intel" channel MOTD. In detail, often with a full breifing on goals, tactics intel and required ships, numbers and fits. Still you can be certain, some guy would pop on, 30 seconds before the op and say "sorry, i'm late.. where are we and what are we in?"
good greif |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Also, need to point out there is a difference in FCing militia fleets rather then corp fleets.
I havent met a nice militia FC ever, without some type of raging.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Nav illus
Pallas Krypteia
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 05:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
In answer ot the OP's question: Go run a fleet. Just grab 10+ corp mates, load'em up for pvp and head for null. Then, like a masochist, do it again. And again... Once you've done that, come on back here and tell us if a good fc should be friendly.
G/L |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leading a group of people on the internet, whether it's EVE or any other MMO is the most unappreciated and thankless roles you can put yourself in.
Years ago when Everquest 1 was pretty much the only MMORPG on the market (except UO of course) a friend of mine, after attempting to lead raids, told me....
"Leading raids is like leading a bunch of ******** children through a mall, and even though they are, presumably, grown up people you constantly have to tell them; Don't go there! Stay near the rest! Where did he go? Everyone together please! Don't touch that! Stop running around!"
And I completely agree with her. I've led some raids, but just like alot of people who have attempted it, I just gave up on it. Being friendly only gets you so far, and when there is alot of strangers involved you learn just how quickly "being nice" will fall short. The result is leading by being formal, strict, jaded, cynical and to those that don't really know you, an *******. I've booted quite alot of people from raids simply because I'm too sick of repeating the obvious to grown ups who should be at least partially educated. If you can't follow simple instructions such as "Let the dedicated puller do the pulling" then you get a boot up your arse and a quick /kick from raid.
These days I limit myself to leading small teams. Either small fleets with friends and corps, or single groups of guildies and friends (in other MMO's). I'm thoroughly fed up with the neverending stream of malfunctioning DNA that not only manages to survive birth, but also seems able to grown arms, legs AND get on the internet.
Then again, maybe I've become too jaded and bitter from years of running PuG's in online games.
Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.
Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
[quote=Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.
Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do.[/quote]
This pretty much says it all. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
|
Lucia Dracus
Imperial Naval Auxilia
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 12:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
I haven't personally had much experience at PVP as of yet, and thus haven't had the chance to fly with many FCs.
However, I was part of a short impromptu Amarr militia roaming gang a couple of weeks ago that was lead by a very friendly and polite FC (whose name sadly eludes me at the moment). There were around 15-20 of us (it varied, as people dropped and joined), mostly in frigates (mostly T1 with a couple of Assault frigs and interceptors) and destroyers. The FC was very patient and didn't lose it at people who accidentally jumped instead of holding on gate and similar, which happened a couple of times. We did pretty well too (by my estimate, at least). killing two hurricanes, two drakes and a talos and losing a harbinger and a handful of assorted frigates if I recall correctly.
It was a fun little roam and speaking as someone who albeit has little experience in the subject, I think the FC did an excellent job. It was certainly a pleasure and a privilege to fly with them.
I can see how it might be different in larger fleets and with more expensive ships at stake though. I don't necessarily see why an FC couldn't be friendly, though obviously discipline is more of a priority for srs business fleets than it is for cheapfit "for the lulz" FW gangs.
|
Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aw Kasenumi wrote:I wanted to hear some opinions about this. This is an alt but i have lived in null for 5 years now and been in several alliances and also the 'larger' ones. In all my years ive hardly ever seen a friendly FC.
While there are a few strange characters among FCs in big alliances, the general consensus here is so true: You can keep your temper with one or two people doing something stupid in a small fleet, but answering for the 40th time what kind of fit is needed, or telling people to shut up on comms all the time in big fleets (where there is usually more at stake) can make you snap real quick. So, the question might as well be: Can fleet members be smart? ;-) |
Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
double. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
FC'd again for the first time in nearly 2 years
The result
http://kb.snuffboxcorp.com/index.php/kill_related/33821/adjacent/
and I never had to shout at anyone.
Cheers Gavin, was like old times |
Gunthar X
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
I want to give you a hug for ensuring that Grant died in that fight. It would have been better if he had been the only one on there :) |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
175
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:07:00 -
[66] - Quote
Most FCs are pretty cool even though they can get a bit crude in stressful moments. Your FC is trying to keep you and your fleet alive. But there are those who think being drunk behind their computer and yelling random profanity gives them internet rep or something. I usually set my ECCM drones on that FC and play with my meat as the rest of the fleet goes up in flames. Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gunthar X wrote:I want to give you a hug for ensuring that Grant died in that fight. It would have been better if he had been the only one on there :)
Yeah, i told the logis to not rep him for bringing the wrong ship... can you see the issue, one of these ships is not like the others, one of these ships is not the same
|
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company space weaponry and trade
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:47:00 -
[68] - Quote
The best FC's act like Mary Poppins. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
. |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
THIS! And they always run their mouth the moment that the fleet loses and even brag about running. Don't they consider for a second that if they stayed they could have possibly made a difference?
I've heard people say, after the (probably lost) fight of course, some gems like.
"When I saw local spike, I ran. Paid off because you lost!" "Stupid FC doesnt know when to disengage, so I used my judgement" "HAHA I ran and now my killboard efficiency is still 99% for the month and yours isn't" "When I was tackled and dying I shot as many blues as I could so my KB wouldn't look bad"
And if a cyno was dropped causing the loss,
"I assumed that ship was a cyno so I was waiting for it to be almost dead to aggress" "Obviously that (Basilisk/Macharial/Gila) was a cyno and your an idiot to think otherwise" "If you could have held the field for (insane amount of time) I could have gotten a batphone" "Derp FC got hot dropped, why is this guy an FC again?" |
|
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 02:48:00 -
[71] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:I've heard people say, after the (probably lost) fight of course, some gems like. "When I saw local spike, I ran. Paid off because you lost!" "Stupid FC doesnt know when to disengage, so I used my judgement"
Were they french? |
Arch Ville
Renegade Vipers Intrepid Crossing
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 04:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Don't insult people and don't be stupid. That way everyone will want to be in a fleet with said FC.
|
Phugoid
Black Horse Enterprises-International The Unforgiven Alliance
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 18:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
When I was a noob, and probs no more than a few weeks old, and didnt know any better, my FC told me to shoot at the ship w the white cross, which I dutifully did Flugzeugf++hrer |
Cpt Roghie
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 18:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
Id say most FC's that ive been in a fleet in for the CFC are friendly. I know of one other guy aswell. Zzzzzzzz.
|
Oska Rus
Solar Storm Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 12:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:THIS! And they always run their mouth the moment that the fleet loses and even brag about running. Don't they consider for a second that if they stayed they could have possibly made a difference? I've heard people say, after the (probably lost) fight of course, some gems like. "When I saw local spike, I ran. Paid off because you lost!" "Stupid FC doesnt know when to disengage, so I used my judgement" "HAHA I ran and now my killboard efficiency is still 99% for the month and yours isn't" "When I was tackled and dying I shot as many blues as I could so my KB wouldn't look bad" And if a cyno was dropped causing the loss, "I assumed that ship was a cyno so I was waiting for it to be almost dead to aggress" "Obviously that (Basilisk/Macharial/Gila) was a cyno and your an idiot to think otherwise" "If you could have held the field for (insane amount of time) I could have gotten a batphone" "Derp FC got hot dropped, why is this guy an FC again?"
In syndicate i used to say: "Returning home in ships? FC was not brave enough." |
PompousDour
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 22:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
this discussion reminds me of my days in eve university. Their management spends an incredible amount of time and energy bitching at people for being stupid/thoughtless. What they should be doing is just dropping those people from fleet and/or corp. They have all the tools at their disposal to handle the problem, but they get caught up thinking about rules that people aren't following rather than not having people that don't follow rules.
It should be simple for them and for FCs to avoid being a **** who spends a lot of time bitching at fleet members: Here, member of my fleet, the instructions for [insert topic]. Please meet with me at this time tomorrow to ask questions you may have. You don't ask questions, I will assume you have mastered the materials. Get into fleet. ******* up? Bye. Try again tomorrow. **** up again? Bye bye, better luck with another corp.
If you're spending more than a few minutes total during a fleet run bitching at people, those people have got to go. You can choose to boot them or put them in a remedial program, but why put up with bullshit? Don't want people to show up in the wrong ship? Don't let them join the fleet. Jumping the wrong gates? Let them die a lonely death. Interrupting and chatter on comms? Mute them. Stop getting mad about what you can't control and instead use the control you have. |
HalfArse
Dark Matter Avionics Caldari Navy Reserve
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 06:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********. As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed. There are some key issues that casse FC Meltdown 1. PPL not being ready at Form up 2. PPL coming in the wrong ships 3. Fail Jumps 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this) 5. Split damage. 6. PPL saying "i'm at the planet" "he jumped" "big fleet on the gate" rather then "Eddie 's on planet 3 at 100km" "target jumped from Tama to Kedama" "Fleet of *insert detailed fleet* on the Tama gate in Kedama. 7. PPL feeling the need to tell the whole fleet when their inty blows up 8. Firing on cyno's without being asked for 9. Random and pointless comms chatter wish I had never started this list, it can go on. but the biggest wind up for all time, is back seat FCs who NEVER step up. Edd
when I was first in 0.0 ( many years ago) the FC that ran the big fleets just didnt take any crap and ran teh fleet with an iron fleet which meant everythign ran smoothly - they wernt overly rude they were just very strict, IE;
1. the fleet would leave at the stated time and if your late you get left behind, if this meant the fleet wasnt big enough to do what was intended they would either have a go anyway (sometimes worked) or did something else with it.
2. never had set fleets - it was always just bring a BS, if you cant then bring a logi, if you cant then bring ecm etc etc
3.FC would always jump last and fleet warp once on the other side - being in a massivly heavy BS if you hadnt aligned in time to catch teh warp it was your own fault and youd be left behind - plus the whoel fleet would see you fail and youd be called out :P
4. scouts are meant to
5. unfortunatly yelling and rudeness is the only cure for this
6. only the FC and scouts the FC had said were scouts coudl talk on comss - anyone else talked they were kicked from the channel
7. see 6
8. possible kick from fleet, would certainly get left behind if the fleet had to move- FC would probably remember your name and make sure you never had a cyno fitted in his fleet again.
9. see 6
After a while in 0.0 i noticed fleets getting more and more sloppy and a bigger waste of time...helped lead to my 0.0 burn out |
Talon Kitsune
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 06:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
You see the same thing in just about any MMO. It's the nature of the beast. A good leader has to be able to call people on their screw ups, acknowledge when they do something right, and praise them when they do something extraordinary. In my MMO experience, after a while the leaders tend to forget the latter two and just focus on the first. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
162
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 06:48:00 -
[79] - Quote
Personally i do not like to FC.
I am well known unfriendly FC when i do it.
But if you fly with unexperienced pilots, they do lot of stupid stuff that can be avoided if they focus more what they are doing, if they know more how to do it and so on. Giving direct response that something went wrong is one way to do it, some other FC try to say it after fleet op, but i personally think that it works better to give it right away, although some people do not like it. But hey who want to hear they have failed.
I was flying logistic ships mostly when i was in draketrain, it is quite hard to remember to push that need reps button for some people. Why to even fly logistics if fleet members does not want it. Same goes with FC:ing, why to FC if people do not follow your orders or they focus to do something else while in fleet, they do not need FC anyway.
Problem in EVE is that most people join to have fun, and having fun does not include training your player skills, and FCing unexperienced players is not fun, and if FC does not have fun then whole fleet does not have fun.
So if you want to have friendly FC in your fleet, train your player skills and focus 110% on fleet action and try to do your best and fly ships fitted like FC wants. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 12:37:00 -
[80] - Quote
HalfArse wrote:eddie valvetino wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Thats how Amarrians roll, but seriously, FCs get mad when people do ******** stuff/dont do what there told/bring purger rigged PVE drakes to hellcat fleets.
Happy FCs are happy because nobody is being ********. As many of the readers of this forums will tell you, personally as an FC I'm am always calm, collected and never get emo. However I do understand why some FCs without my level of sef control do get really annoyed. There are some key issues that casse FC Meltdown 1. PPL not being ready at Form up 2. PPL coming in the wrong ships 3. Fail Jumps 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this) 5. Split damage. 6. PPL saying "i'm at the planet" "he jumped" "big fleet on the gate" rather then "Eddie 's on planet 3 at 100km" "target jumped from Tama to Kedama" "Fleet of *insert detailed fleet* on the Tama gate in Kedama. 7. PPL feeling the need to tell the whole fleet when their inty blows up 8. Firing on cyno's without being asked for 9. Random and pointless comms chatter wish I had never started this list, it can go on. but the biggest wind up for all time, is back seat FCs who NEVER step up. Edd when I was first in 0.0 ( many years ago) the FC that ran the big fleets just didnt take any crap and ran teh fleet with an iron fleet which meant everythign ran smoothly - they wernt overly rude they were just very strict, IE; 1. the fleet would leave at the stated time and if your late you get left behind, if this meant the fleet wasnt big enough to do what was intended they would either have a go anyway (sometimes worked) or did something else with it. 2. never had set fleets - it was always just bring a BS, if you cant then bring a logi, if you cant then bring ecm etc etc 3.FC would always jump last and fleet warp once on the other side - being in a massivly heavy BS if you hadnt aligned in time to catch teh warp it was your own fault and youd be left behind - plus the whoel fleet would see you fail and youd be called out :P 4. scouts are meant to 5. unfortunatly yelling and rudeness is the only cure for this 6. only the FC and scouts the FC had said were scouts coudl talk on comss - anyone else talked they were kicked from the channel 7. see 6 8. possible kick from fleet, would certainly get left behind if the fleet had to move- FC would probably remember your name and make sure you never had a cyno fitted in his fleet again. 9. see 6 After a while in 0.0 i noticed fleets getting more and more sloppy and a bigger waste of time...helped lead to my 0.0 burn out
I agree nearly 100% with this.
However, while the number of numbers you get in 0.0 fleets, may allow very random fleets, like the ones you discirbe. I can assure with smaller fleets, standization is the only way to go. This is however, NOT an FC issues, it's a corp/allaince leadership issue. If PL want standard fit baddon fleets with 400 members, they get them, as they do with Tengus. In Snuff we are expected to have the correct "fleet" fit ships ready to go, at a moments notice, fail to do this a few times and you are on the wrong end of a bollocking. from the corp leadership, not the FCs. This allows us to engage much bigger fleets, 20 vs 120 is not unheard of with us "winning"
Edd |
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The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.17 12:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
I haven't been in New Eden very long (2 months) but I've had nothing but good experiences with FCs in the CFC. They've all been helpful and patient with my stupid newbro questions. Similarly, my fleet members in the first fleet I FCed were understanding of my lack of experience and offered plenty of helpful advice.
Are there really FCs out there that are dicks to individuals in their fleets? It's a spaceship game for fucks sake, we're all logged in to have some fun! I can't imagine getting upset about some spaceship explosions, we can always just reship and give it another go. |
Joey1
Solar Revenue Service TAXU
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
I used to FC for Huzzah back in Syndicate.
I like to keep my cool when giving orders, the calmer you are the calmer your fleet with be.
It all depends on what you want from your fleet, if you want stupid ordered guns then you should shout at them. If you want a agile fleet that works together well you should make everyone comfortable.
I would follow most of my orders with please and thanks when I get Intel, every little helps.
But I suppose it also boils down to who you're dealing with, stupid people need shouting at. Luckily I've only FC'ed with decent people :P |
MaCoola
RSK. Curbstomp..
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 02:44:00 -
[83] - Quote
I have FCed small to med (2-40) fleets and been under FCs who are really cool and weren;t drama queens. I have been in fleets with the biggest bablies who cried and emoraged like aholes (Maka, PK, etc. ) and it's really sad but most are just jerks because they can be a jerk. They powertrip in their mom's basement and treat people bad for no really good reason but because it makes them feel better to do so because they suck so bad IRL.
I understand frustratiion with retards in fleet and people losing their cool. It happens to us all at times.
And there are some really good FC's I have been under have that have never acted a like a 2 yr old who didn;t get their way. Definate and Ral/Phoenix are a few. And I know there are other FCs who are good FCs and treat people with respect on comms.
Their really is no good excuse for emoraging FCs. They are just childish pukes who happen to be good at FCing but shite with people.
They need to feel good by putting everyone down because they were/are builled IRL and need to take it out on someone else.
The excuse that no one will step up and FC so they get bitter is crap because it is hard to learn how to be an FC in most corps/alliances because the entrenched FCs rarely let others have any glory. They want to be the hero. And they need an excuse to crybaby.
FCing a grind like missions? lol I don't think so. I have FCed on different characters and it never felt like a grind and a dreaded thing to do. Why? Because I LIKE to pvp. If people are hating FCing they need to quit and go mining or whatever.
I know this, treating people with respect will you get respect and more numbers in fleet. And the results will be better and you get people wanting to fly what is needed when asked. I know, revolutionary thought! |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
492
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 13:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Come to FW! I know from personal experience both Gallente and Minmatar have friendly and talented FCs and yes, its possible to be both.
Lots of great and friendly FCs!
Jason, Julius, Amon, Chatgris
Those 4 guys allowed me to have my best experiences in EVE |
Ethan Argoin
The Forsworn Protectorate
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 19:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
I am a friendly FC lol!
Althought to be fair, when I FC I am usually getting drunk ;) |
Vixisti
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 00:29:00 -
[86] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote:
Yeah, i told the logis to not rep him for bringing the wrong ship... can you see the issue, one of these ships is not like the others, one of these ships is not the same
To be sung in the voice of Big Bird.... I missed you Ed
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
60
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 01:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Jessie Arr was the first FC I ever had.
He set the bar really high. Rabble Rabble!! |
Imustbecomfused
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 15:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
If a LEADER cant respect the people he is leading, he wont be a leader for long. That doesn't mean he cant be or get cranky, but if an FC yells at me, or is disrespectful, I simply wont EVER fly with them again. period. There are nice FC's out there. Find one, stick to him, and learn as much as you can. When you have an FC that is an ass to his mates constantly, just leave, and spend your time more wisely, with a wiser FC. GL. |
Rigel Vex
Providence Directorate
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 00:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
Imustbecomfused wrote:If a LEADER cant respect the people he is leading, he wont be a leader for long. That doesn't mean he cant be or get cranky, but if an FC yells at me, or is disrespectful, I simply wont EVER fly with them again. period. There are nice FC's out there. Find one, stick to him, and learn as much as you can. When you have an FC that is an ass to his mates constantly, just leave, and spend your time more wisely, with a wiser FC. GL.
But sometimes FC's need to show some tough love. The classic "I don't want to fly what you want me to fly" statement springs to mind. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
129
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 05:02:00 -
[90] - Quote
Imustbecomfused wrote:If a LEADER cant respect the people he is leading, he wont be a leader for long. That doesn't mean he cant be or get cranky, but if an FC yells at me, or is disrespectful, I simply wont EVER fly with them again. period. There are nice FC's out there. Find one, stick to him, and learn as much as you can. When you have an FC that is an ass to his mates constantly, just leave, and spend your time more wisely, with a wiser FC. GL.
Good post. I woulda pushed the 'like' button 10 times if possible. You are NOT comfused at all.
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jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Fatmanpaul from the minmatar militia > the most patient, calming, and effective FC ive flown with. If you ever get a chance to be in one of his happy killing fleets get in it, listen, and learn. Top guy. I think i secretly <3 him a bit.
Also > confirming ''back seat FCs who never step up'' being the single biggest irritant in the game. Worse than Dan Carter Murray. |
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
131
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
Depends on the type of fleet your in and what the intention is.
However, even when flying a more relaxxed fleet you still dont want derps and people bringing random **** and generally ballsing up which causes the fc's to rage.
I want an arrogant, emo, ******* people when they derp FC in charge when the **** hits the fan when flying mult-billion isk fleets - i dont want a quiet meek dude who will tell everyone its ok to bring his drake to a navpoc fleet.............
Our fleets for example are for the most part quite chilled, drunken and good natured but once the time comes everyone has there game face on and does ther job, if you dont then expect to get a roasting as i for one dont wanna spend the next xxx time grinding to replace ships that are lost cos of someone derping.
You get to know the fc's, if you dont like how he runs it then dont join his fleet. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 12:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
Aw Kasenumi wrote:I wanted to hear some opinions about this. This is an alt but i have lived in null for 5 years now and been in several alliances and also the 'larger' ones. In all my years ive hardly ever seen a friendly FC. What i notice is that when FC's get to cranky or just downright insulting etc. alliances dont live long cause people are not gonna enjoy being in a fleet with you and with every cta the numbers drop. The friendly FC's that i have seen could manage great fleets as they got sympathy from pilots and people just generally enjoy themselves, but for some reason these FC's dont stick around for to long or they feel the pressure from alliance leadership and move along. Now i keep wondering why FC's are generally assholes cause in my opinion they gain absolutly nothing and are there alliances around who only deal with friendly FC's?
for a year or something I was in Raiden. RDN FCs were all pretty chill and funny to fly with. Most chil FC's I've ever dealt with. |
MaCoola
RSK. Curbstomp..
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:23:00 -
[94] - Quote
But sometimes FC's need to show some tough love. The classic "I don't want to fly what you want me to fly" statement springs to mind.[/quote]
You are right, people need to bring the ship asked for but telling people by emoraging on them is pretty stupid. And sometimes, gasp, people don't have it for whatever reason and they still want to pew. Instead of sceaming at them about how stupid they are, cursing them and their whole family, etc. the FC should either say "I will make an exception" or they should say please don't join fleet. The issue is the way people treat others. |
Dan Carter Murray
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 09:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
jjohnpaul xvii wrote:Fatmanpaul from the minmatar militia > the most patient, calming, and effective FC ive flown with. If you ever get a chance to be in one of his happy killing fleets get in it, listen, and learn. Top guy. I think i secretly <3 him a bit.
Also > confirming ''back seat FCs who never step up'' being the single biggest irritant in the game. Worse than Dan Carter Murray.
"Dan Carter Murray/Murphy or whatever is one of the most annoying whiners I have had the displeasure of encountering in EVE. unfortunately that guy is way too immature in local smack/whining for my tastes." |
Scion Lex
Rogue Bastards.
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 18:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
Aw Kasenumi wrote:I wanted to hear some opinions about this. This is an alt but i have lived in null for 5 years now and been in several alliances and also the 'larger' ones. In all my years ive hardly ever seen a friendly FC. What i notice is that when FC's get to cranky or just downright insulting etc. alliances dont live long cause people are not gonna enjoy being in a fleet with you and with every cta the numbers drop. The friendly FC's that i have seen could manage great fleets as they got sympathy from pilots and people just generally enjoy themselves, but for some reason these FC's dont stick around for to long or they feel the pressure from alliance leadership and move along. Now i keep wondering why FC's are generally assholes cause in my opinion they gain absolutly nothing and are there alliances around who only deal with friendly FC's?
I completely and totally agree with you on this. Personally, I try to be the cool head when I FC. I am respectful of the guys I fly with. I thank them and compliment them for doing well. I also try to ease the burn of a loss with an encouraging word. It worked for me as an infantry NCO in war and it works for me here. I think most guys really just don't know what it takes to lead. This is (eve) the only context they have for it and they do what others before them have done. People have to WANT to follow you.
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Ravan Hekki
Blue-Fire
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 21:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Yes some can. Yes you do get some shouty 'i have no power in my real life so i want to be work though my issues on others'
For good fun FCs see:
Securitas
RvB's Ganked FCs
Ammzi
Aquilla Sagatta
Soulripper666 and Spooni (really they just seem grumpy).
I have however flown with some total tools. One thing that helps keep FCs from being tools is to follow instructions and don't talk over them.
However in Eve as in life there are people who just want to be incharge for thier own power trip...this tends to be the FCs who are tools. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
268
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 22:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Show me a happy FC & I'll show you a happy cat herder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
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EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
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