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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Claire Voyant Just for laughs, i'm going out on a limb to predict that the stuff we mine on planets will be used to make things for Dust. By letting the industrialists get a 6 months head start, it assures that the early Dust players will have a plentiful and cheap supply of things that go boom.
While I would believe it, It's a stupid move. No one is going to build ammo, weapons, armor, place it on the market and let it sit for 6 months locking up capital in the hopes of being the first. Why? Because it is most likely going to be quick manufacture times.
"HAHAHA You locked up your capital for 6 months hoping to be the first, I used my capital for 5 months and when Dust's release date was set in stone I started producing Dust items. Sucks to be you.."
While I would believe this may be the intention, I think CCP would be shooting themselves in the foot as very very little are produced when no one other then market speculators are buying, it gives no deals about industrial capability, at least without demand.
This is why things like "Capital Laser Focus Crystals" are no where to be found, even though you can buy the BPO and manufacture them.. NOTHING uses them so why bother, until such time as they will be used they will not get manufactured. Giving "us" six months head start to make something is all well and good but it isn't going to happen.
There is no reason to introduce more T2 or even T3 materials at this stage, Sure they could but really whats the point. I'm thinking more along the lines of those weird consumer items that we all use, that NPCs currently sell. Rocket Fuels, Mechanical parts, Oxygen, Robotics etc. But that also removed the ISK sink those items produce. Read again however, they where careful, they introduced the words "Maintenance" in there so they replace one sink for another.
I'm going to assume planet conquering is not going to happen in high/low sec. So 0.0 only, what is missing from 0.0?? Yep you guessed it, all the nasty high-sec consumer produces you HAVE to buy in order to maintain your POSs.. At the moment no matter how big or powerful you are, you HAVE to come back to high-sec no matter what! Maybe CCP are trying to remove that requirement.
That's MY speculation take it for what it's worth, which at the moment is NOTHING!
Amarr for Life |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:34:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 22/02/2010 16:34:13
Originally by: SencneS I'm going to assume planet conquering is not going to happen in high/low sec. So 0.0 only.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans In our upcoming expansion, Tyrannis, ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS.
OMG did you say all of the planets!?
Thatęs right (...)
And itęs not just the terran planets. Itęs ALL OF THEM. The gas giants, the lava planets, the ice worlds, the water worlds and even the elusive plasma planets. Each type with their unique properties. Maintaining facilities on gruesomely hostile planets will be tougher and more demanding, but the rewards may be so much more ōonturning.ö
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ł the Jita irregulars. " |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:35:00 -
[33]
Originally by: SencneS
While I would believe it, It's a stupid move. No one is going to build ammo, weapons, armor, place it on the market and let it sit for 6 months locking up capital in the hopes of being the first. Why? Because it is most likely going to be quick manufacture times.
"HAHAHA You locked up your capital for 6 months hoping to be the first, I used my capital for 5 months and when Dust's release date was set in stone I started producing Dust items. Sucks to be you.."
While I would believe this may be the intention, I think CCP would be shooting themselves in the foot as very very little are produced when no one other then market speculators are buying, it gives no deals about industrial capability, at least without demand.
NPC buy orders in the interim?
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.22 17:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: RAW23 NPC buy orders in the interim?
And create an ISK faucet? I don't think so :)
K - It just says "All the planets" it doesn't really specify high-sec, low-sec, null-sec. If it is high-sec then hell I guess I'll be spending some ISK come spring :) Otherwise I'd still believe it's no higher then low-sec. Possibly 0.4 will get the much needed "buff" it's been missing.
Amarr for Life |
Roxy McFubar
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Posted - 2010.02.22 17:43:00 -
[35]
hell, I'd be happy if they just fixed rockets...and one or two other things.
Dare I mention "Station Walking"?
No, didn't think so.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.02.22 17:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: RAW23 NPC buy orders in the interim?
And create an ISK faucet? I don't think so :)
K - It just says "All the planets" it doesn't really specify high-sec, low-sec, null-sec. If it is high-sec then hell I guess I'll be spending some ISK come spring :) Otherwise I'd still believe it's no higher then low-sec. Possibly 0.4 will get the much needed "buff" it's been missing.
Since fighting will be done by DUST instead of EVE and low entry barrier is said to be what they are looking for, I bet on high sec too. The 50 000 planets to be conquered (and various districts per planet) ensures everyone can have their own piece of eve world for their own. I would like to see management being the last resource that dictates profitability to avoid useless planets, if security is not an issue (all of this are fought for within DUST and moving things is easy enough on low sec), is of no use to make high sec planets useless.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ł the Jita irregulars. " |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.22 18:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Since fighting will be done by DUST instead of EVE and low entry barrier is said to be what they are looking for, I bet on high sec too. The 50 000 planets to be conquered (and various districts per planet) ensures everyone can have their own piece of eve world for their own.
I would like to see management being the last resource that dictates profitability to avoid useless planets, if security is not an issue (all of this are fought for within DUST and moving things is easy enough on low sec), is of no use to make high sec planets useless.
That's assuming it's DUST related. It's a good bet that it's Dust but I'm speculating it's not going to be Dust related and more do to with making 0.0 less reliant on High-sec.
If it's Dust related then I would place bets on High-sec as well, they'll want low entry into that manufacturing which will just make EVE Vets CRUSH any Dusters, either way CCP has to be careful to now allow six year olds with hundreds of billions of ISK dominate a market designed for new players. (cough rigs cough)
Amarr for Life |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.02.22 19:12:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mahke
Originally by: Claire Voyant Just for laughs, i'm going out on a limb to predict that the stuff we mine on planets will be used to make things for Dust. By letting the industrialists get a 6 months head start, it assures that the early Dust players will have a plentiful and cheap supply of things that go boom.
I was thinking the same thing reading it until I read "and launch them into space."
Which to me sounds like something useful in space (after all: why should we care about planets otherwise except for SOV reasons? I couldn't care less about funding DUST players for the sake of funding DUST players).
Well, it needs to go into space if we are going to transport the stuff to Dust troops on other planets. How the economics will work is unclear to me at this point, but the other options (tech 2 etc.) just don't seem to make sense to me.
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Moon Dogg
Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.22 19:54:00 -
[39]
I'd like to see NPC goods come out of the planets, with the producers sinking ISK into the process to get things like tower fuel components. Hell, it might be worth it to have to pay to get those things locally in 0.0, rather than jumping them from Empire.
*********************************** "Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..." |
Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.02.22 20:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: SencneS
Originally by: Claire Voyant Just for laughs, i'm going out on a limb to predict that the stuff we mine on planets will be used to make things for Dust. By letting the industrialists get a 6 months head start, it assures that the early Dust players will have a plentiful and cheap supply of things that go boom.
While I would believe it, It's a stupid move. No one is going to build ammo, weapons, armor, place it on the market and let it sit for 6 months locking up capital in the hopes of being the first. Why? Because it is most likely going to be quick manufacture times.
"HAHAHA You locked up your capital for 6 months hoping to be the first, I used my capital for 5 months and when Dust's release date was set in stone I started producing Dust items. Sucks to be you.."
Except that if you wait 5 months maybe there might not be any planets left since you will need Dust boots on the ground to dislodge the previous occupants.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.22 20:51:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Claire Voyant Except that if you wait 5 months maybe there might not be any planets left since you will need Dust boots on the ground to dislodge the previous occupants.
Not really a concern if it is DUST related... There are more then enough planets to go around for that. I still stand by the idea that no one is going to sink a load of ISK into Dust components with no real official release date. Currently it's "Release date(s)Between 9/11/10 and 5/01/11" according to Wiki...
But by all means sink a boat of ISK into something that could be a year out at the time this patch drops. Personally I'll wait until a few things happen first. 1) There is an official release date. 2) There is maybe no more then 1 Month from that release date.
Amarr for Life |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.02.22 22:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: SencneS That's assuming it's DUST related. It's a good bet that it's Dust but I'm speculating it's not going to be Dust related and more do to with making 0.0 less reliant on High-sec.
What means DUST related to you? The conquering will be done through DUST and that's what I was talking about, there is no significant added risk in being in low sec if it can not be conquered by ships. Orbital bombardements has been mentioned, but the blog says that the only damage will come from bad management for now: "When something goes bad or breaks it is because of the owneręs mismanagement, and when things are awesome and perfect, it is because of skill and hard labor on part of the player that runs the facilities". All the speculation on building DUST related items has no ground and it is most probably wrong. Unless deployment plan has changed heavily, It was clearly stablished that the only communication between DUST and EVE at the launch would be through ISKs and Mercenary Contracts, so it looks like capsuleers will not be manufacturing DUST equipment. It also neither makes sense with ccp stablishing independency between the two games. It was said from the beginning that planets will affect sovereignity, so it is possible that they could be null sec only but that's stupid to have when you're talking about low entry barrier and given the number of planets and the name I think it will be a player's game, not corp, nor alliance. BTW: Any thoughts on how could affect sovereignity under the current system? I think it could be related with reinforcement times.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ł the Jita irregulars. " |
clixoras
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Posted - 2010.02.22 23:20:00 -
[43]
Although i think eventually the integration between EVE and DUST will come i HIGHLY doubt that will be the case at the release-date. DUST (and any other game for that matter) will have enough technical 'challenges' as it is.
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xylopia
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.02.23 00:45:00 -
[44]
Actually CCP showed what they were brewing with planetary interaction at 2009 fanfare. The link is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNhPig8inEY#t=60m45s (Thanks to SCH, and unknown informant)
For those ones who'd like to just see the slides about planetary interaction stuff, I've summarized in plain text.
- Why Planets?
- As a pod pilot, it makes sense that you want to project your power onto the trillions of people that reside in New Eden
- ThereĘs 50,000 planets ingame already
- Goals of planetary interaction
- Low barrier of entry
- Maximize human interaction
- ItĘs a bit like gardening...
- Nurture good growth
- Prune the dead branches
- Kill the weeds
- Not a clone of Civilization or SimCity
- But has that same good feel
- Build stuff and see what happens
- You may want to care for your planet
- Or not care and make a buck
- But your neighbor might object
- You must keep the plebs in line
- You can setup relationships and trade agreements with neighboring districts
- Sometimes diplomacy is not the best option
- Nuke it form orbit - it's the only way to be sure
Like many have pointed, it's too darn early to say anything for sure. At least to me, however, it wouldn't be a bad idea to prepare stuffs for ground activities. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.02.23 07:50:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 23/02/2010 07:51:48
Quote:
I would like to see management being the last resource that dictates profitability to avoid useless planets, if security is not an issue (all of this are fought for within DUST and moving things is easy enough on low sec), is of no use to make high sec planets useless.
Hi sec needs to become useless. The bears need to feel slapped in the face for not having the nuts at fighting for what they got.
Hi sec is the tutorial training grounds, people should feel pushed out of that basement and go out and breath EvE. If Concord was removed off < 0.9 sec belts, the super-abundance of low ends would magically self fix. Same for ice.
If people had to go out and lose ships, insurance fraud would have counted days, as stuff would actually get blown up. At this point, having exillaratingly imbalanced things like sleepable L4s would make sense and their massive ISK faucet would find an use beyond pimping 10B ships.
Will CCP have the 'nads to restore the game from the current slow decay into WoW-ness?
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:47:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Di Mulle on 23/02/2010 18:48:30 Actually, is it DUST related, is it not, doesn't matter at all. Unless you want play your very own solo minigame (why EVE then, in first place), the only thing that matters in big picture is: what kind of resources planets will pump into EVE as a final result (also, what resources they will pump out). Any intermediary steps, whether they involve Dusties or not, are irrelevant. Think of it as a black box.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.23 20:14:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha The bears need to feel slapped in the face for not having the nuts at fighting for what they got.
There is more to EVE then use your guns, ALL PVP would not be possible. The bears need PVP just as much as PVP needs bears.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If Concord was removed off < 0.9 sec belts, the super-abundance of low ends would magically self fix.
That's like cutting off the entire leg for an ingrown pinky toenail. It would actually break EVE beyond repair..
Either it's a troll or you've completely lost it. I've betting on the latter.
Amarr for Life |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.02.23 23:08:00 -
[48]
While this stuff may be Dust related, it's not going to be about us suppling them, at least not at this time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEi2aIvsFA#t=7m7s
It makes sense, CCP want the two totally independent of each other at the start in case Dust bombs, or they can sell it off to someone else who wants to develop it more and CCP go back to their Money Pot, EVE.
I would imagine that if the two really take off and become highly interconnected because of corp/alliance relationships then sure allow EVE to make tanks and guns, if not, then it doesn't matter. You can tell they think about this, because later on in the video there is a guy that asks "Can I blow up the Dust514 War Barge while it's traveling." The way the Panel answered it you can tell they thought about it, but their main goal right now is to literally have two separate games that interact on a single point, and expand from there.
So this Tyrannis expansion may be a launch point for the EVE+Dust interaction I highly doubt it'll go the way this thread speculates.
However, what I did find interesting is I was CLOSE, In the "CCP Presents" video they actually mentioned, "I make exotic dances, and he makes armor plates, and we have a trade." So maybe my idea is closer then I thought and that was pure speculation!
Amarr for Life |
Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.24 01:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hi sec needs to become useless. The bears need to feel slapped in the face for not having the nuts at fighting for what they got.
That would essentially kill Eve. You do realize that the majority of industrialists operate in high-sec? The "wild west" environs of 0.0 are not exactly conductive to industry and trading, not on the scale needed to keep things flowing. Yes, you can make a profit by buying stuff in high-sec and selling it in lowsec, because highsec stuff is cheap since there is plenty of it. Remove the carebearing cogwheels of industry and trade (and even missioners slot into this) and pretty soon everyone will be gluing guns to their pods because we won't be able to afford even T1 frigates.
Personally, I predict that the availability of "stuff" will be even more increased. I think we will see an influx of resources which will drop prices across the board. Which is good. The cheaper the "good stuff" gets, the easier it is for people to risk it in combat. And that means more fun fights for us crazy 0.0 maniacs, more trade for the isk-grubbing tycoons, more market space for the industrialists, more griefing opportunities for lowsec pirate scum... everyone happy.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.02.24 02:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Hi sec needs to become useless. Will CCP have the 'nads to restore the game from the current slow decay into WoW-ness?
I never thought you were one of those "EVE must be done to my liking" guys. The "EVE is what I think it is" disease is propagating around here it looks. You can hope for a more challenging and risky high sec, but your suggestions are nonsense and only serve to kill EVE. Also saying WoW-ness in EVE is stupid, and high sec has been that way since forever, what do you want to restore? It's not a new game and it has it's ailments, assume it. It's pretty healthy for it's age I would say.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ł the Jita irregulars. " |
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Angelzin
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:03:00 -
[51]
One of Dev said it will have low entry point so even new players can do it so it means that it will not require lots of SP or ISK. I heard that each planet can have 9 properties and those properties can be owned by different people.
So it would seem to me that this will be sort of "player housing" for this game where you can get planetary estate for cheap and easy and then if you want to develope it will cost you lots of time, isk and effort and you might get some benefits from it.
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2010.02.24 07:19:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
You can hope for a more challenging and risky high sec, but your suggestions are nonsense and only serve to kill EVE. Also saying WoW-ness in EVE is stupid, and high sec has been that way since forever, what do you want to restore? It's not a new game and it has it's ailments, assume it. It's pretty healthy for it's age I would say.
it hasn't
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Digital Emperor
Cryptonym Sleepers
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Posted - 2010.02.24 12:14:00 -
[53]
its going to be interesting to see how much T2 BPO's drop in price since they are being nerfed. < insert random troll > |
HarveyBirdman Esquire
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Posted - 2010.02.24 13:39:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Digital Emperor its going to be interesting to see how much T2 BPO's drop in price since they are being nerfed.
I'll take the meme!
-Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.02.24 13:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
You can hope for a more challenging and risky high sec, but your suggestions are nonsense and only serve to kill EVE. Also saying WoW-ness in EVE is stupid, and high sec has been that way since forever, what do you want to restore? It's not a new game and it has it's ailments, assume it. It's pretty healthy for it's age I would say.
it hasn't
I suppose I'm not that old in the game, how many years have passed since it was changed? When I said forever I meant very long time anyways, enough to make almost every capsuleer conceive it like essential when describing EVE.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ł the Jita irregulars. " |
Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2010.02.24 13:52:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus
When I said forever I meant very long time anyways, enough to make almost every capsuleer conceive it like essential when describing EVE.
CONCORD was added at some point during beta
If you look for older videos you will see gankers camping the Yulai gates happily tanking CONCORD - just because CONCORD exists doesn't mean it has to be wtfbbqpwnage.
I for one would be happy with the faction navys taking over law enforcement in high-sec...
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Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.24 14:48:00 -
[57]
So whats to prevent a high sec mega alliance (or 3 or 4) from gobbling up all the planet properties? Where then the newb "entry level" experience?
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Sarajo
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Posted - 2010.02.24 14:54:00 -
[58]
A cap on the amount of properties controllable by one player would do that.. However local properties might run out yea
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.02.24 15:18:00 -
[59]
OK, I take it all back. We won't be making Dust stuff on planets anytime soon. The fanfest vids convinced me (and it's not like it's the first time I've seen them.)
Looks like we will be playing sim city on the planets and and will have a hard enough time just keeping the populations happy and healthy, so we can forgot about them producing space stuff in any meaningful quantities.
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