Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rhaetic
Black Ice Consortium
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 05:47:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Zartrader which are easy by the way, disband
IIRC disbanding your corp and reforming with the intention of avoiding wardecs is a petitionable exploit.
-Liang
Negative. You can do this over and over again to avoid WarDecs as a form of "reverse griefing". It requires the Corp that wants to WarDec you to pay more money and wait the cooldown again, in addition to discovering what the name of the new corp is.
There are drawbacks to continually reforming your Corp, of course -- beyond the fact that it is a total PITA.
|
Birdman Ravo
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 05:58:00 -
[32]
I think the entire EvE universe revolves around the concept of some challenge being thrown your way and you rising above the challenge and leaving it stronger than before. That includes learning to play, learning to make isk, learning to fight, learning to survive, and learning how to do all of it while making your mark in the EvE universe.
It's unfortunate that so many challenges have come your way at once, but that's EvE for you; one challenge to overcome after another.
|
Benri Konpaku
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 06:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Zartrader It takes a few minutes to research corp mechanics and anyone forming one in ANY game should do so. If a player has to rely on an ingame warning when he is forming a corp then something else will catch him out sooner or later.
There becomes a point where players have to learn from themselves or do basic research. An obvious point in the game for that is when forming a Corp.
This game is clearly marketed as freeform with consequences. If a player does not realise that within a few minutes he will fall flat on his face no matter how much he gets his hand held.
He has not indicated he has done even one search to see if there are easy solutions for him. There are several. He's just another player blaming the game rather than spending a few minutes learning it.
It is obvious (for us) that what you are saying is true.
But that still doesn't mean CCP has no need to give new players that little piece of information (yes in game) before they try to join or form a new corp or do other potentially dangerous (read stupid) choices due to a lack of understanding of game mechanics.
IF after that warning they still want to go through with it then they will have no one to blame but themselves. But that little piece of information in-game can be the difference between a new player "laughing it off and rising up to the challenge" and that same player quitting due to a complete missunderstanding of the game mechanics. Even if said player had the potential to become a fierce EVE player once he got around the concept of what EVE is about.
CCP seems to be noticing this with the new player tutorials, but there's still a lot more that can be done to help newbies adapt and learn to enjoy EVE gameplay without having to change a single aspect of how the game works.
After all EVE is the perfect example of phrase "Knowledge is power".
In other words EVE mechanics are ok the way they are. But the way newbies are introduced to it all is still not. |
Nose66
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 07:21:00 -
[34]
I want to thank you all for your responses... and yes, even the "carebear" ones.
About the only response that I thought was stupidly elitist was the one telling me not to post. If knowledge is power... then asking stupid questions is the first step in asking better questions.
All others I will take to heart. I pointed out my experiences and frustration, and then I made a suggestion (with a snide remark to stir things up... which it did).
I am glad that at least a few of you could sympathize, and that fills my carebear heart with joy.
I don't expect CCP to change the game (although suggesting that CCP can't change the game seems to ignore that fact that CCP has changed the game over 7 years). And if they make it a bit more user friendly, then more power to them. If they decide that there are too many of us carebears in the system... I assume they will fix that also. It is up to them.
Finally, I apologize for my last statement... I made it in frustration... and in the hopes it would stir the pot (and that it did). I hold EVE in the greatest respect... as any GOTY award winner should be. I hope they can continue in that trend.
|
Typhado3
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 07:45:00 -
[35]
[crazy inventor rambling] How bout make a carebear version of the FW alliances. Give em a 5% alliance wide tax and make it so you can declear war on the alliance but not the individual corps, and if you do your KOS in that empires space. NPC faction police aren't hard to escape but it would give people a safer option without being completely safe.
[/crazy inventor rambling]
seriously thought the war dec system could use a revamp. I would like to see it combined with a sort of mob protection money system rather than leaving it as the player hunting license system it is now.
------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Zartrader
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 07:45:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Zartrader on 22/02/2010 07:47:16
Originally by: Nose66 I want to thank you all for your responses... and yes, even the "carebear" ones.
About the only response that I thought was stupidly elitist was the one telling me not to post. If knowledge is power... then asking stupid questions is the first step in asking better questions.
All others I will take to heart. I pointed out my experiences and frustration, and then I made a suggestion (with a snide remark to stir things up... which it did).
I am glad that at least a few of you could sympathize, and that fills my carebear heart with joy.
I don't expect CCP to change the game (although suggesting that CCP can't change the game seems to ignore that fact that CCP has changed the game over 7 years). And if they make it a bit more user friendly, then more power to them. If they decide that there are too many of us carebears in the system... I assume they will fix that also. It is up to them.
Finally, I apologize for my last statement... I made it in frustration... and in the hopes it would stir the pot (and that it did). I hold EVE in the greatest respect... as any GOTY award winner should be. I hope they can continue in that trend.
One day I'm hoping to set myself up in WH space. That means I had to learn the basics of PVP even though I'm a Carebear at heart. So I joined Red v Blue. Your alts could join after a few hours training to fly a rifter and you can just try it out. The cost to me was about 200k per ship as I full insured them, even with named mods, and I had a blast. More importantly I picked up some tricks which would help me a lot if I ever got into a PVP situation, at least enough to cause hassle to the opposition so they would find hopefully another target.
Players that target miners are looking for easy prey. Several rifters camping their station would be cheap for you to do, fun and a PITA for them (hopefully) You could scan them down and pick them off if they are mission running or hauling. Just be a hassle to them and they are likely to stop. Of course, they may not so then you choose other options.
The reason I like this game is there are always many options to any problem. If those options are removed or players not exposed to risks it would become a very boring game. And it's not as if those risks can't be avoided anyway.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente Shadow Templars
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 08:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Nose66 Edited by: Nose66 on 22/02/2010 07:21:45 EVE won game of the year... which is going to bring in a lot of new players. I am one of those.
Unfortunately, the completely unrestricted nature of EVE is going to send most of these new players packing.
EVE have always been harsh, and aprox. 80 % of the new players who joins the game ends up leaving within a month.
However! Those 20% who stays with the game, will most likely stay forever! So have it been since the foundation of the game. And so will it be for the future!
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 08:49:00 -
[38]
It won't get easier.
You can build up stuff for half a year, two years, whatever and *WHAM* some ****head come and blow up all your stuff.
If you can't take the heat in the first place, you won't be able to take the heat later on. Accept the harsh nature of Eve, embrace the challanges and enjoy the successes.
Stay in npc corp (or go back to it) until you have learned the most essential basics - or join a corp which has alread some experience and can help you. |
Dagonollach
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 08:50:00 -
[39]
People always try to argue, that the harshness of Eve put many new players off. Therefor it should be more like WoW Arena or some other mainstream PvP game. But there is also another scenario. People must remember, that CCP is a relativly small developer.
Let's say they make PvP more for carebears, no non-consensual PvP and so on. The core players leave, the masses join Eve (maybe).
Then one day one of the big producers, like EA or Blizzard make a Space MMO. They pump hundreds of millions in some mainstream game. Likely outcome, Eve looses the Battle for the carebear crowd.
The only way a small game developer can survive is, to cater to a niche market, or they die. So until CCP earns the big bucks with Dust or some other project, it would be a big mistake to go for the mainstream user.
At least that's how i view it.
|
Mal Corvus
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:04:00 -
[40]
I took a break frome Eve for about a year and tried a few other MMOs. I can tell you now they are all the same zero loss, no risk, boring, small, limited grind. All the things Eve, for all it's flaws, is not.
So I'm back, the devs still love their game and it shows. Eve is great and it is brutal and harsh. You can lose a months worths of saving in minutes flat if you mess up. That is actually what gets the pulse up, that's what gives it meaning. When you win that fight against the odds, that is why you have a genuine taste of victory and a sense of achievement.
Google an old hacker game by the name of Uplink. There is no way to save you progress except by closing the game. You cannot go back to a save of your choice. You can play for months, mess up one hack and get caught, game over. It's such a simple detail but it makes it the only single player game I have played that has raised my heartbeat. That is what Eve is to MMOs.
CCP have given you the mechanic you want, leave you corp and stay in an NPC corp where you can't be decc'd. You can create a private chat channel for you and you mates. You won't have a corp hanger or any of that stuff but those come with a price, that being the ability to defend yourselves. When you are ready start a new corp, or join an established one. Or you could cowboy up, jump in some cheap frigates and have a go at fighting.
Your choice, but Eve is an oasis in the MMO desert, it's ain't going to dumb down any further to accomodate you. You must grow as a gamer to find a place in Eve.
|
|
Lexx Khadar
Minmatar Aesir Fleet
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lexx Khadar on 22/02/2010 09:12:42 The reason eve is successful is because of that free reign. Player corporations are for when you feel ready to stand on your own two feet as a corporate entity. Stay in an npc corp or join a corporation able to defend you. War declarations are a part of the game you'll need to become used to if you plan playing this game for any length of time.
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:14:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Dagonollach People always try to argue, that the harshness of Eve put many new players off. Therefor it should be more like WoW Arena or some other mainstream PvP game. But there is also another scenario. People must remember, that CCP is a relativly small developer.
Let's say they make PvP more for carebears, no non-consensual PvP and so on. The core players leave, the masses join Eve (maybe).
Then one day one of the big producers, like EA or Blizzard make a Space MMO. They pump hundreds of millions in some mainstream game. Likely outcome, Eve looses the Battle for the carebear crowd.
The only way a small game developer can survive is, to cater to a niche market, or they die. So until CCP earns the big bucks with Dust or some other project, it would be a big mistake to go for the mainstream user.
At least that's how i view it.
I see what you mean, but many recent failed MMO launches are proof that money alone or a big IP isn't enough to compete in the MMO arena. You need a good fun game with loads of content or people will just migrate back to their original MMOs after a few months.
CCP could have a decent chance of succeeding, but no reason to try it with EVE. EVE has a strong playerbase, that would crumble with such changes. There also isn't a reason why CCP can't just make another MMO, if they want to start competing in the themepark/carebear MMO arena. The basic design of EVE could even be a big negative, since it wasn't designed for that kind of game in mind. It would be better for everyone, if CCP just started from a clean slate with a new game.
|
Baneken
Gallente Aseveljet
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:14:00 -
[43]
EVE is a gangland, get used to it and as a side note at least you have to be wardecked (unlike in UO back in the days) before you lose your stuff...
|
Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mal Corvus
Google an old hacker game by the name of Uplink. There is no way to save you progress except by closing the game. You cannot go back to a save of your choice. You can play for months, mess up one hack and get caught, game over. It's such a simple detail but it makes it the only single player game I have played that has raised my heartbeat. That is what Eve is to MMOs.
I would have compared it to Nethack, personally. But this is also a good comparison.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Epicbeardman
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:34:00 -
[45]
Quote: if it could make the newbie experience just a little less frustrating
No. The curve weeds out undesirables. CCP is managing the best MMO on the market, not trying to become the most successful one.
EVE Online is "The Wire" to World of Warcraft's "Lost".
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Nose66 the completely unrestricted nature of EVE is going to send most of these new players packing.
I am talking, of course, about the rampant pirating and corp griefing.
Fine. Please make sure to contract what little stuff you may have to me before leaving. Thank you! ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 09:58:00 -
[47]
I don't see how making the game easier for new players will better equip them to handle the real EVE universe. After their "babying" period ends they will be thrown into the real EVE universe and be just as clueless.
EVE is not for everyone. EVE was never meant to be for everyone. Turning EVE into some STO-like joke of a game would kill it faster than pulling the plug on the servers. So that argument of "Oh man, you could make sooo much more money if you did this CCP" is complete BS.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 10:10:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
EVE is not for everyone. EVE was never meant to be for everyone. Turning EVE into some STO-like joke of a game would kill it faster than pulling the plug on the servers. So that argument of "Oh man, you could make sooo much more money if you did this CCP" is complete BS.
Exactly. Eve can't compete with games like say World of Warcraft by becoming more like them. If players want those things that make those games successful, they already have them, in plenty. Why would they come to Eve for them? ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 10:11:00 -
[49]
The only thing that has changed for new players over the years is a tutorial.
Harshness is player provided and if you are not willing or suited to defend it you don't deserve it, period.
This is the main driving factor in the entire game, and the only thing this game has mostly changed over the years about was how to go about accoplishing the above statement and despite all the new tools its amazing out some of the tools avialable to the human mind are far more effective. A 5 year war ended in a bribe too good to turn down, the victors of that war fell victim to thier own succes not much later. Proof that a cunning mind does far more damage than any 1200mm dual monster federation railguns or the amarr be blessed macross cannon.
If you start playing this game as if everyone is out to get you, even your own corp mates and friends, then youll do fine, family members are no exception.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 10FEB10
|
TheGunslinger42
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 10:29:00 -
[50]
Stopped reading after the third line started whining about pirates and 'griefers'. The open, unrestricted nature of EVE is what makes it unique and part of why it won the MMO game of the year - if the new players don't like that they are free to give me their stuff and go back to World of Snorecraft.
|
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 10:56:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 22/02/2010 10:56:49
Quote:
But that little piece of information in-game can be the difference between a new player "laughing it off and rising up to the challenge" and that same player quitting due to a complete missunderstanding of the game mechanics. Even if said player had the potential to become a fierce EVE player once he got around the concept of what EVE is about
No, the new player either has already the seeds to approach and solve the game challenges or he is not going to be a fierce player anyway.
Lets get back to Darwin: newborns that are slow or dumb or *anything* less than best get slaugthered hard.
EvE = Darwin in space.
For sure, those unable to cope with the harsh EvE (lack of) ruleset will find 10000000 more suitable products.
Lowering EvE's bar to cater to the millions and then have the game quickly decay like the others is bad.
I was there at other MMO's betas to see. Most were doomed by their idiot-compatible nature since day 1 of beta.
Best <> most popular, glad CCP is one of the two companies in the world who still got the nuts to stick to their design.
Quote:
Exactly. Eve can't compete with games like say World of Warcraft by becoming more like them.
Exactly, just look at those who tried, i.e. Warhammer Online (I have been a beta in that too and played it for half a year). Can't out-WoW WoW.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Sitara
Minmatar Solar Flare Trade and Production
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 11:27:00 -
[52]
A lot of good postings above as to why Eve should stay as it is. Its a harsh universe - its meant to be harsh.
This sets Eve against 99.9999% of MMOs and I believe is what keeps the game interesting for the long term players. Speaking for myself I've tried many when taking breaks from Eve but I keep coming back as no other game offers the same level of player driven content - ultimately this is what makes Eve great.
Every veteran player has had to deal with all these things - the thing that differentiates such players from the many who try and leave is that they have learned from the experience and adapted - it annoys them when someone suggests that they should get a leg up rather than be forced to do the same. This really is the key point.
Remember the other side of the harsh universe thing is that you have much more opportunity to do stuff that no other game will let you. Take advantage of the opportunity ! (and don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you it can't be done - they are wrong)
Have to agree in this case with those saying find a good established corp and join it. You shouldn't be thinking of setting up your own corp until you understand the game well enough to defend it from harm...
CCP are not trying to make the most popular MMO they can (thank god) - Eve is a specific vision of a type of game and I am very glad to see they are continuing to refuse to go down the 'lowest common denominator' route. That's why I'm still coming back to the game 5 years + after rolling my first toon
|
Esk Esme
Caldari 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 11:37:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Esk Esme on 22/02/2010 11:38:28 to the OP
welcome to EvE every player b4 you has had to learn the steep steep learning curve that is EvE adapt or die or leave
why should ccp water down they game just so new players can find it easy lol EvE isnt ment to be easy but wot you learn now will allways be with you in EvE and you will learn from experance
if not there is allways WoW
less whineing more effort trying EvE is a dog eat dog game
my spelling sux sue me
on side note you could allways look around for training corps or even throw yourself at priveteer's mercy maybe they would dec the ppl decing you
edit: told u my spelling sux
|
Tolis Irithel
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 11:48:00 -
[54]
We get the players that suit the game; not the game that suits the players. This is a GOOD thing, as it stops the voices that call for the simplification of our game from getting too strong.
This means, as the EvE world is a cut-throat and vicious one, that we get players who will jump on any momentary, small weakness. Being a corporation full of newbies is just such a weakness (imagine what corporate tricks Microsoft might play on a small tech startup that intrudes on their corporate "space"), and will get exploited as such.
The OP is fairly new, so my advice is for the future - play to your strengths. If you're low on skillpoints and cash, and forced into PvP (it's a harsh game, but you're not forced - NPC corps and others allow for protection against some kinds of griefing tactics), then rely on execution and planning; don't try and take on BS's in a standing fight with your Rifters, etc. The most important module on your ship is the "Pilot Brain T1" - keep it active at all times, and react if you think you see something suspicious or dangerous, wherever that is.
|
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 12:01:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 22/02/2010 12:04:12 option one: join eve university Option two: make an allience with other similar corporations option 3: join a larger corporation that is able to protect itself Option 4: join Red vs blue and learn pvp
power in eve is a multiplier of three variables: thickness of your wallet your knowledge and silk Your ingame SP
If we are talking about a group numbers and organization come in. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG |
Floria Aemilia
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 12:18:00 -
[56]
Dear Op.
Eve does not need to make the game more accessible to noobs.
Eve does not need to pander to carebears.
Eve won Game of the year when this level of noob-unfriendliness has been the norm for nearly seven years.
Eve's player base will grow in this form as the average age and education level of gamers rise.
Eve will reward you only if you are an intelligent, committed, resourceful person.
Can I have your stuff?
|
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 12:29:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Floria Aemilia
Eve's player base will grow in this form as the average age and education level of gamers rise.
Eve will reward you only if you are an intelligent, committed, resourceful person.
ehm.... you saying goons used to be intelligent? commited? ( hmm maybe ), resourceful ( k a little ), human?????
|
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 13:26:00 -
[58]
EVE is also about ISK and the same applies to the "Griefers".
I recommend that you get yourself some cheap ships, insure them and become unafraid of losses. Especially if the wardeccing corp enjoys to fly T2 ships, you can really kick them into the wallet. Even when you get blown up in a ratio like 10 of yours for 1 of them, they will have a hard time to sustain the war, because they still lose more then they can hope to gain of you.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
|
Jagerwolf
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 13:50:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton hmm good troll
or
thick newcomer?
little nub corps often produce the best tears, so they are a high value target worth attacking. a forum whine is almost the ultimate victory, almost because the ultimate victory is getting them all to emoquit.
the strong cull the weak, and I have no problem with that. if all the chickens run around with their heads cut off the wolves will smell the blood and take all they can. the farmer in this case enjoys watching the slaughter because it makes for a more dynamic and eventful world.
and that is why eve is the MMO of the year
This post is so ******ed I am almost embarrassed to read it
|
Riedle
Minmatar Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2010.02.22 13:56:00 -
[60]
Quote: We quietly stay in 1.0 space, learning to mine and learning how to play the game
FAIL
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |