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Kane Kuchera
Amarr NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.22 15:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 22/02/2010 15:30:01 I've come to the conclusion the set up advice for this... interesting ship are somewhat dated.
So, I wanted to see what we could throw together now.
I can't really decide if the ship should armour or shield tank sometimes. I suppose it depends on the needed usage. The following set-up is designed to provide a decent EHP (effective-Hit-points) whilst maintaining a high Alpha.
With that in mind, I went for semi active shield tanking. I personally can't see an armour fit that will work aswell. Welcoming constructive suggestions.
Nightmare Special Ability: 100% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking per level Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage per level
CONFIGURATION - Shield Tanked
-]HIGH POWER[- 4x Mega Pulse Laser II [Ammo-4x Scorch L] 2x Heavy Nosferatu
-]MEDIUM POWER[- 3x Large Shield Extender II 1x Heat Dissipation Field II(Anti Thermal) 1x Photon Scattering Field II (Anti EM) 1x Ballistic Deflection Field II (Anti Kinetic)
-]LOW POWER[- 1x Damage Control II 3x Heat Sink II --OPEN SLOT--(Can't decide what to put in here, for the interest of this set-up I just tossed in a Power Diagnostic System II)
-]RIGS/MODIFICATIONS[- 1x Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 1x Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I 1x Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Some Information
I don't think this ship works at point blank range. If you want in your face battleship damage, use a Tech II Blaster Megathron. I think this ship operates best from around 45KM. It's designed to operate along with another ship to tackle.
Statistics
With my skills (which are not the best) 131,723 EHP 573 DPS 2733 Alpha
If however, I swapped it to a close range fit to go to/to by swapping the Scorch L crystals to Faction Multi Frequencies The DPS Rises to 750 and the Alpha 3600.
According to EFT with all skills to V: DPS would be 956 Alpha 4144 EHP 149,190
Capacitor Info
6m 43s with everything active (excluding the nos) 15m 18s with tank deactivated 17m 26s with all active + 1 nos 62% Stable with all active = 2 nos
Power Grid & CPU
CPU: 689/852 P/G: 14344 / 19031.25 (So ample to spare on both)
ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
TimMc
Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.02.22 15:33:00 -
[2]
Not sure if this is supposed to be PvE or PvP, but either way I look forward to your tears.
NM hasnt changed, same fits work same. Stop being a failure.
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Kane Kuchera
Amarr NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.22 15:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 22/02/2010 15:47:16
Well, that was helpful. What's wrong? Someone steal your girl friend? Things have changed. FFS, the last suggested set-up was from when you could fit Missile Launchers aswell as 4 guns. So don't take your rage out on me, prick. ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.22 15:55:00 -
[4]
What? There's another Nightmare fitting on the front page right now. There's been at least 1 NM thread every week since Dominion.
And all that changed then was that it got a bit more cap and better sensors.
PS Your fit is horrible. What's it supposed to be for?
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Kane Kuchera
Amarr NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 22/02/2010 16:06:05 The idea was to bait PvP without loosing too much of the DPS (Part of my fit is actually faction; but I figured to keep it easier I'd put in T2 instead)
I run it along with a HAC, FRecon or Assault Frigs and always a secondary battleship. The idea was to keep the ship out of the range of close range DPS heavy battleships like the Mega without turning into a completely useless ailment. This set-up seems to give high enough EHP and reasonable DPS. I can't find a way to get the same DPS and EHP with an armour tank.
Only thing about this set-up I don't like is the lack of a MWD. This ship isn't designed for solo PvP as to be honest, I don't think many players (excluding those with Chinese ISK falling out of their anus) would dare to solo PvP in one of these anyway. Especially as most of us atleast semi faction fit them.
ADDON: I would also add, that if you wanted a close range gank battleship you would use a Mega or Abaddon or such as you can get better results than with this ship. The Nightmares main feature in small group / gank based PvP is the bait feature. As a solo battleship any equally trained Pilot in a mega would flaw a Nightmare hands down.
Best to keep it out of range and use it to bait targets when you have support. ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
Veritaal
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:22:00 -
[6]
You could fulfill the same role with an Abaddon for 1/20th the cost after insurance. Also, most gangs don't fit remote shield reps.
And what if you bite off more than you can chew? Nothing attracts bullets like a faction BS. Consider yourself primaried
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:26:00 -
[7]
How can it be bait if it stays 45km out?
How can it be bait if it doesn't tackle?
Why does this thread not make any sense?
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Kane Kuchera
Amarr NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.22 16:34:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 22/02/2010 16:37:15
Originally by: Veritaal You could fulfill the same role with an Abaddon for 1/20th the cost after insurance. Also, most gangs don't fit remote shield reps.
And what if you bite off more than you can chew? Nothing attracts bullets like a faction BS. Consider yourself primaried
That's why I like the idea of being atleast 40KM off gives me time to warp out if local spikes. If however I'm up close and the target ship could hold the nightmare down with a point before we could kill it. Then the bait would in fact have been the baited.
Originally by: James Tritanius How can it be bait if it stays 45km out?
How can it be bait if it doesn't tackle?
Why does this thread not make any sense?
Bait doesn't necessarily need to sit on a gate, this could be 45KM from a station undock point. A ceptor / AF etc. Would tackle for you once you where committed, However I do see a problem with the setup.
The idea as said was to bait a ship in. But without a MWD The NM would be hard pressed to get out of range of (to use the previous example) A Megathron without a MWD.
The ship most certainly doesn't need a point however. Not in small group PvP.
It may be easier to sit the ship near a gate and then use a MWD to burn off once aggressed. The supporting tackle can make sure it stays there easy enough.
Can I get a higher EHP without loosing DPS with any other tank setup, be it active shield boosting or armour?
ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
Gunner Cid
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2010.02.22 17:39:00 -
[9]
I don't know man, you are planning for the best case scenario and not thinking of logical scenarios that will occur.
Also, in small gang pvp on the scale you are talking about, it's pretty imperative that everybody has the ability to tackle somebody.
Based off of things that you have said I think that you should probably use a cheaper ship and go gain some first hand experience instead of theory-crafting some best case scenarios.
There is just a lot of common sense things that you are over looking hence the flak you're getting from people.
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Jan Blackoak
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.02.22 18:06:00 -
[10]
[Nightmare, taqchy] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Invulnerability Field II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L Imperial Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer [empty high slot]
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
108k ehp 502 dps to 168+48km.... you know you wanna
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.02.22 20:38:00 -
[11]
Are u really sure u want to bait with a nightmare? I mean that would be awsome but every one with a carrier alt/blob will hit that.(which is the point of bait I guess)
As for fitting, big buffer tank and tell ur friends to fit shield rr (good luck fittin them) to remote rep u.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.22 20:43:00 -
[12]
Still, if you don't have tackle, they'll just warp out.
"Oh crap! Local swelling! Bounce bounce bounce!"
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.02.22 21:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: James Tritanius Still, if you don't have tackle, they'll just warp out.
"Oh crap! Local swelling! Bounce bounce bounce!"
noones gonna be warpin out for a faction bs killmail
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.22 21:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: James Tritanius Still, if you don't have tackle, they'll just warp out.
"Oh crap! Local swelling! Bounce bounce bounce!"
noones gonna be warpin out for a faction bs killmail
Best case scenario: they warp out. Worst case scenario: they drop 75 carriers on it.
Neither case gets you kills.
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Veritaal
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Posted - 2010.02.23 01:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kane Kuchera
That's why I like the idea of being atleast 40KM off gives me time to warp out if local spikes. If however I'm up close and the target ship could hold the nightmare down with a point before we could kill it. Then the bait would in fact have been the baited.
Ever try and hit an interceptor with megapulses? Or anything frig sized? 40KM is not a big distance, especially since you only need to close a 20 KM gap to put a point on something. Here is what is going to happen.
*You fire on a ship* If your target is in any kind of PVP corp, they immediately announce "HEY! There is a nightmare gatecamping on XXX gate!" A gang will form, if there isn't one already. A fast tackler (or 2) will warp to the gate and nab you. You and anyone that helps you learns not to gatecamp with faction BSs. If you don't think this can happen, please eve mail me your location and I'll be happy to demonstrate!
Also, you said that a lone secondary battleship will jump in and provide support? 2 battleships isn't all that much actually. Just the other day I was in a fleet of 10-12 cruisers and we locked down and picked off a few spider tanking BSs.....
And that's us. Word of a nightmare on a gate will attract PVPers of all sorts, HAC gangs, RR BS fleets, capital hotdrops, massive blobs of bored pirates.
Originally by: Kane Kuchera
Bait doesn't necessarily need to sit on a gate, this could be 45KM from a station undock point. A ceptor / AF etc. Would tackle for you once you where committed, However I do see a problem with the setup.
The idea as said was to bait a ship in. But without a MWD The NM would be hard pressed to get out of range of (to use the previous example) A Megathron without a MWD.
The ship most certainly doesn't need a point however. Not in small group PvP.
It may be easier to sit the ship near a gate and then use a MWD to burn off once aggressed. The supporting tackle can make sure it stays there easy enough.
Can I get a higher EHP without loosing DPS with any other tank setup, be it active shield boosting or armour?
Bait does too have to sit on a gate. The big thing about bait is that they lay down a tackle so the target(s) can't run while the cavalry warps in.
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Loki Farseer
F9X
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Posted - 2010.02.23 08:31:00 -
[16]
I love that Nightmares are so cheap... except that since they are ..."people"... are going to fit them horribly and there will be lots of Nightmare KM's which is good since maybe people will come after my NM now... but it will also drive the Nightmare prices back up again.
To the Op... you DO NOT EVER Armor tank a Nightmare unless you want to be some KB's Comedy Kill of the decade
Active Shield Tank it, Toss a Point on it, done right you can tank alot, and do around 1100-1200 dps.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.23 10:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Loki Farseer Active Shield Tank it, Toss a Point on it, done right you can tank alot, and do around 1100-1200 dps.
Lol, its more likely to be 2,5k. Or you want to fly nm without crystals?
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.02.23 10:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Loki Farseer done right you can tank alot, and do around 1100-1200 dps.
Lol, its more likely to be 2,5k. Or you want to fly nm without crystals?
i think he was reffering to the dps output, while have a good tank.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.23 10:58:00 -
[19]
OOps, my bad. Too early for me heh.
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Jaded One
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Posted - 2010.02.23 11:43:00 -
[20]
This is just all wrong. 131 EHP honor tank will get eaten up in no time, with no MWD fitted you'll find yourself in no-mans land before you know it, without a web / energy neut / point you are nothing more than target practice ... Why try and reinvent the wheel? There are plenty of better ship choices for baiting, hell even a raven; everybobdy loves to gank a raven!
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Kane Kuchera
Amarr NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2010.02.23 12:54:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 23/02/2010 12:58:20
The original set up was flawed due to the lack of a MWD and other reasons. This is a possible rework. Again, some of the modules are faction.
The EHP has dropped to just shy of 98,000 I've swapped is to work as a close range set-up with Multi Frequencies crystals DPS is about 750 with around 3600 volley.
Tackle is still provided by another ship. Not the NM. The ship would now be at closer range (about 15KM) instead of 40KM.
-]HIGH POWER[- 4x Mega Pulse Laser II [Ammo-4x MultiFreq L] 2x Heavy Nosferatu
-]MEDIUM POWER[- 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Invulnerability Field 1x X-Large Shield Booster 1x 100mn Micro Warp Drive 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster
-]LOW POWER[- 1x Damage Control II 3x Heat Sink II 1x Tracking Enhancer II
-]RIGS/MODIFICATIONS[- 3x Core Defence Field Extender ACHMED FLEET FTW! |
Jaded One
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Posted - 2010.02.23 14:49:00 -
[22]
Looking better
For the X-L booster to be more effective in a drawn out brawl you can drop 1 Shield Extender for 2nd Invuln... Benefit from the extra resists should far outweigh the extra shield HP.
If you want a little more range than MF then use xray, this is the longest range alternative that will give you more damage than scorch
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Jaded One
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Posted - 2010.02.23 15:08:00 -
[23]
Also, shield booster amp to replace the other shield extender would be a wiser option
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Loki Farseer
F9X
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Posted - 2010.02.23 23:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kane Kuchera Edited by: Kane Kuchera on 23/02/2010 12:58:20
The original set up was flawed due to the lack of a MWD and other reasons. This is a possible rework. Again, some of the modules are faction.
The EHP has dropped to just shy of 98,000 I've swapped is to work as a close range set-up with Multi Frequencies crystals DPS is about 750 with around 3600 volley.
Tackle is still provided by another ship. Not the NM. The ship would now be at closer range (about 15KM) instead of 40KM.
-]HIGH POWER[- 4x Mega Pulse Laser II [Ammo-4x MultiFreq L] 2x Heavy Nosferatu
-]MEDIUM POWER[- 2x Large Shield Extender II 1x Invulnerability Field 1x X-Large Shield Booster 1x 100mn Micro Warp Drive 1x Heavy Capacitor Booster
-]LOW POWER[- 1x Damage Control II 3x Heat Sink II 1x Tracking Enhancer II
-]RIGS/MODIFICATIONS[- 3x Core Defence Field Extender
To Lugalzagezi666: Actually I have a Tank that will tank 4-5 Gank (1200+ DPS) BS's DPS incoming for a bit and if I change a little more around and pop Pills and have a CS in gang with Links can get over 10K - 12K Damage Tanked Raw (before Resistances are applied). The 1100 - 1200 was the DPS I inflict upon the other poor sap dumb enough to shoot me.
To Kane Kuchera: Baby Jeebus is Weeping.... For the love of all that's holy.. It's Still a 700M isk ship... T2 module fitting this is like buying a Ferarri and putting a damn Lawn-Mower engine in it.
You are finally getting the mix of mods kinda right with a couple glaring problems.... What is with the T2 Shield Extenders? Take them off and add another invuln and Scram/Point cause if you are trying to bait with this the lack of a Scram/Point is just dumb. People will see local spike and run away if you don't have them locked down.
The Tracking enhancer instead of the 4th HS is a whatever you feel happier with argument.. although I run 1 Nos and 1 Neut in the highs and 4 HS since the small crap will get neuted, slow down and die and I like max dps. Or if I am really worried about small stuff I run 5 Med and 5 Small drones vs my normal 2 Hvy 2 Med 1 Light setup. YMMV
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.02.23 23:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Loki Farseer ...
Heh, i have only 'economic' fit with 2x cn invul and pith a xl, so i was basing my experience on it. Can overheat to 3,5k without boosting tengu, but cap is serious issue on this /= it would die horribly under decent neuting/.
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Loki Farseer
F9X
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Posted - 2010.02.24 05:06:00 -
[26]
This is true... no matter how nice the mods etc... Nightmare caps out and you are done. If I'm worried about lotsa neuts generally run 2 x Heavy Cap Boosters and Navy 800's minus another of the Shield Amps I use since I don't bother with a MWD or AB on mine.
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Lord Booya
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Posted - 2010.02.24 12:35:00 -
[27]
DHB-WildCat like I said in the other thread, this man is the Nightmare. Even if he is an ass. You want your answers go to him!
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Sombike
Caldari Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.02.24 18:59:00 -
[28]
[Nightmare, Do You have ISK] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink RADAR Backup Array II Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II
Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Add in some Boosters and a Crystal set, take your alt along with you in a Badger with 800's and you are done
If u don't have the money, change the faction stuff for T2, although if u don't have the money my advice would be to fly the Armageddon :)
I have never had a signature before, is it any good? |
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