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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
715
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Posted - 2012.06.30 12:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Croniac wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote: As for any overlap, I highly doubt it as each client would be transmitting and receiving its own unique set of data. Each instance of the game is unique, the data isn't shared, one of your toons could be in Jita and the other 46 jumps away, each client doesn't know or care the location of the other. So each client requires its own discrete datastream. Just like each client uses its own discrete resources on your local machine. That last part is something that is true currently but something we are hoping to look into soonGäó. Even if you have two characters far apart then, e.g., they could both be flying the same ship and then the two clients could share memory for textures.
But the network traffic necessarily needs to be separate. Two characters can never be in the *exact* same location and circumstances and the overhead of trying to determine what is common and going to clients on the same machine is more than simply keeping separate data streams. That being said, when determining what goes into each data stream we try to figure out if the same data is applicable to a larger group and push that data in a single stream from the location nodes to the proxies and have the proxies deal with pumping it to the individual clients. This applies to, e.g., physics updates for everyone on the same grid. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Online, CCP Games | Follow on: Twitter / Google+ |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
715
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Posted - 2012.06.30 13:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Constable Chang wrote:DTson Gauur wrote:Jett0 wrote:For reference, my current connection will not stream YouTube, but I can play EVE just fine. However, I've noticed in the past that a fast but inconsistent connection makes it unplayable. v v v Constable Change wrote:Its not very tolerant of packet loss though. I keep a ping going in another window. Just two ping timeouts is enough for the Eve client to 'disconnect'. Even if after these two timeouts the connection becomes stable again, Eve just dies and I have to close the Eve window and restart the game. The launcher won't even start until your connection becomes stable. I wish they'd change that... CCP Explorer wrote:Approx. 6 KB/s. EVe is fairly tolerant of latency given the 1 Hz update. Would you mind explaining what you mean by 1 Hz update? 1 Hz update rate means that the server refreshes the info on everything a player does once a second. So if you have say, a 250ms ping (or 4 Hz) , eve on server side doesn't really care, you still get data faster up/down than the server does updates. And as others have already said, Eve has absolutely horrible handling of packet loss (read: it has none), even a single lost packet can cause the client to disconnect. Eve uses TCP doesn't it? Not UDP? If so, whats the excuse? One of the main purposes of TCP is that it can cope with packet loss. Indeed, we don't use UDP since then we would have had to implement packet loss detection and retransmit logic, which is exactly TCP that a lot of very smart people throughout the world have contributed to for decades. Instead of re-inventing the wheel then we simply use TCP. If TCP can't cope with your network connection and drops packets, there is realistically nothing we can do about it. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Online, CCP Games | Follow on: Twitter / Google+ |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
715
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Posted - 2012.06.30 13:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
DTson Gauur wrote:Constable Chang wrote:Eve uses TCP doesn't it? Not UDP? If so, whats the excuse? One of the main purposes of TCP is that it can cope with packet loss. Can't say for sure, but my bet is that since the server is actually asynchronous it doesn't know how to resend data. Ie. the time it takes to process a packet, send it and for the client to respond "Hey! Where's my data?!" The server has already run another refresh and goes "Oh, that dude didn't send any data last time, must've disconnected..." and promptly closes the connection. PS: the asynch part is btw why sometimes even the fastest locking ships (scan resolution of 1400+) can't lock a pod/shuttle/frig/cloaker in time on gate/whatever. It's simply because the other player got his data packet FIRST. This wouldn't be a problem if the server would run on say 100 Hz (or ticks as those FPS dudes like to call it), but when the rate is 1 Hz it matters. A LOT. Even FPS games only run at 24-32 Hz. And EVE can't both run at those rates and scale like it does. One of the reason you can have fleetfights with thousands of pilots and many thousands of drones is that EVE ticks at 1 Hz. It's one of the primary reasons that allows us to scale this way in a single-sharded universe. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Online, CCP Games | Follow on: Twitter / Google+ |
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DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
4
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Posted - 2012.06.30 13:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Even FPS games only run at 24-32 Hz. And EVE can't both run at those rates and scale like it does. One of the reason you can have fleetfights with thousands of pilots and many thousands of drones is that EVE ticks at 1 Hz. It's one of the primary reasons that allows us to scale this way in a single-sharded universe.
Yup, the scale is different as are the problems too. But! You're wrong at that the FPS games run at 23-24 Hz (or ticks), it's true that most of them do, but there have been for years for example Counter-Strike and Call of Duty servers that run with 100 Hz (tick) update rate.
The difference between 2 identical instances, one @25 Hz and one @100 Hz is quite noticeable, try it if you can :) Incidentally, the 100 Hz update rate in CoD2 for example allowed for few pretty interesting flaws to be exploited until IW fixed it.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
782
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Posted - 2012.06.30 13:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Coolsmoke wrote:I'd like to know what sort of total upload/download data figures a player incurs while playing Eve (average 6hrs/day) over a month.
I'm asking because I currently have an unlimited data broadband contract and I'm looking to cut r/l costs by reducing it to something that adequately covers Eve's demands only.
Assume I'm constantly in space, missioning/small gang pvp, and dual-boxing.
Can anyone give me a rough-ballpark-guesstimate? (Googling this gets threads from '07..)
Cheers Remember you also got to download updates. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
782
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Posted - 2012.06.30 13:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Shameless Avenger wrote:CCP Explorer wrote:Approx. 6 KB/s. EVe is fairly tolerant of latency given the 1 Hz update. Don't tell that to pilots in delve :P Nothing going on in Delve can be described by the word "fair". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Constable Chang
6
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Posted - 2012.07.01 02:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:DTson Gauur wrote:Constable Chang wrote:Eve uses TCP doesn't it? Not UDP? If so, whats the excuse? One of the main purposes of TCP is that it can cope with packet loss. Can't say for sure, but my bet is that since the server is actually asynchronous it doesn't know how to resend data. Ie. the time it takes to process a packet, send it and for the client to respond "Hey! Where's my data?!" The server has already run another refresh and goes "Oh, that dude didn't send any data last time, must've disconnected..." and promptly closes the connection. PS: the asynch part is btw why sometimes even the fastest locking ships (scan resolution of 1400+) can't lock a pod/shuttle/frig/cloaker in time on gate/whatever. It's simply because the other player got his data packet FIRST. This wouldn't be a problem if the server would run on say 100 Hz (or ticks as those FPS dudes like to call it), but when the rate is 1 Hz it matters. A LOT. Even FPS games only run at 24-32 Hz. And EVE can't both run at those rates and scale like it does. One of the reason you can have fleetfights with thousands of pilots and many thousands of drones is that EVE ticks at 1 Hz. It's one of the primary reasons that allows us to scale this way in a single-sharded universe.
When you have a game where a disconnect can cost a player months of work I'd think it fairly important to make sure that ONE lost packet does not result in a game client disconnect.
My INTERNET connection didn't go down.
I may have lost ONE packet on the connection to your server.
I didn't pull the plug out of my internet hoping to avoid a loss in game; my connection to your servers lost ONE packet.
I think CCP need to address this problem because it can trivialise the 'risk' aspect of the game. What? I risk my ship based on the possibility of ONE lost packet? Eve isn't fair but this is a bit much.
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Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.07.01 10:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Good grief.. as OP I've just come back to this thread hoping for a couple of answers, and there are two pages
My issue is that I'm with British Telecom (for my sins) on an Unlimited Download package that costs -ú30-odd a month. I also subscribe to Sky HD+. So my networking/entertainment charges are about -ú60/month and frankly I can't afford it any more.
I'm trying to find a package that I can switch to in August which will keep the wife happy with Hollyoaks etc. as well as coping with my addiction to Eve..
Looks like something around the 5Gb cap should do the trick. Now to negotiate the quagmire of offers online *sigh*
Thanks you very much for the responses. |
Constable Chang
6
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Posted - 2012.07.01 10:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Coolsmoke wrote:Good grief.. as OP I've just come back to this thread hoping for a couple of answers, and there are two pages My issue is that I'm with British Telecom (for my sins) on an Unlimited Download package that costs -ú30-odd a month. I also subscribe to Sky HD+. So my networking/entertainment charges are about -ú60/month and frankly I can't afford it any more. I'm trying to find a package that I can switch to in August which will keep the wife happy with Hollyoaks etc. as well as coping with my addiction to Eve.. Looks like something around the 5Gb cap should do the trick. Now to negotiate the quagmire of offers online *sigh* Thanks you very much for the responses.
My friend in Poland just told me he recently upgraded to 60Gbps with NO CAP. Now thats civilisation for ya.
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