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Lashnar
Caldari New Eden Recon Force Beyond-Control
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Posted - 2010.02.25 02:30:00 -
[1]
It seems that alot of people are going around shouting: "Fix the lag!" "EVE suckz since Dominion" Or my personally most hated: "This game is too complex, make it more easy"
Personally, I LOVED how this game said: "GIVE you a ship? GIVE you a million Isk? Hell no." And then tossed you in a ditch.
I also loved how the market was player driven, and I loved how complex this game is.
Sure, the game lags, any GOOD online game does. CCP is trying, but they also have to deliver those shiny planets too right? Which they did, that was an example.
But why do people still complain? Every time I start up EVE, I wish I had a better computer, (Netbooks are not good for EVE) so I could venture into null-sec and see all the glory that is space!
Anyway, thank you CCP for making such a great game... Welcome to EVE. |
Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.02.25 02:35:00 -
[2]
I started hating CCP ever since the Great Nano Nerf
there was a problem with nano, but the way they choose to solve it defies both logic and the core game ideals: that a game should be elite hardcore pvp
The slow poisoning of the game with carebear ideals is painful to watch.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.25 02:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lashnar But why do people still complain ?
Because if you like something, you want it to become PERFECT (or as close to perfect as possible). Every little step backwards is like a personal affront then. You should really start worrying when people STOP complaining. It means they no longer care enough to even complain, because the alternative would be that the game reached perfection for everybody, which is practically impossible.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:02:00 -
[4]
I dont hate the game at all, I think EvE is amazing and would love to find any reason to quit but cant, been playing for 3 years and my main issue has been lagg which in time I guess will be fixed.
Kids will play the "do this or I will leave" drama, let them be no one really cares what they have to say and NO ONE ever leaves when they announce it :) FIRST!! |
Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:13:00 -
[5]
Shouting is just that. Feel free to ignore them, most people do.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:17:00 -
[6]
In the beginning they had lottery and I hated it and thought it was the dumbest thing ever. They fixed it and I was happy. Then came Titan DD, I hated this more. I hated this more then everything else combined. They fixed this and I was enormously happy and accepted the by product of the lag.
Now though, this lingering lag from jumping in large fleets is really taking a toll in nullsec. The apathy for large fights is very real. I hope CCP is putting everything they got into fixing this fast.
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HellGate fr
Yarrbear Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:44:00 -
[7]
For me, missiles were too much nerfed since Quantum Rise, and the nano one is a bit harsh tough
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Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.02.25 03:54:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Alchemist''s Alt on 25/02/2010 03:53:57 People hate EvE because of the following reasons
1. Every expansion is the same thing just 5/10 levels extra to get 2. Instances are boring and its the same crap strategy 3. People are annoying all they do is scream epic and LFG 4. Every time I put effort in something the next patch it becomes obsolete 5. BGs are full of leechers and all my grind spots are full of chinese farmers which I cant do anything about 6. All the NPC main chars get killed
I could go on but I think you get my point ;) sure theres a few bugs and lagg is currently a ***** but it could be worse FIRST!! |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:02:00 -
[9]
Reading the forums you get a skewed impression due to whiners like Akita T, nano***s and 0.0 alliance carebears. (and more)
Everyone[tm] in my corp love the changes dominion brought, while being disappointed with the large fleet lag that got introduced yet patient enough to know it will eventually get fixed. This is likely the same for most of the players; we enjoy the game as it is and hope for more.
Doesn't mean we don't discuss or suggest improvements. We just don't whine about it like Akita T.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Reading the forums you get a skewed impression due to whiners like Akita T...
Lolwut? There is a huge difference between the flood of "omg, nerf suicide ganking plz" by whiner posters with a ! portrait and Akita T who posts constructive criticism about concepts of the game in which he has actually explored and fully understands all the corresponding mechanics.
You rarely see posts from "nano***s" or "0.0 alliance carebears". Not sure what forums you are actually reading but it certainly hasn't been the EVE forums.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:24:00 -
[11]
People tend to post when they have something to moan about, not when they are happy.
CCP are thick skinned anyway, they know to ignore the trolls and they probably look at the others so it can be useful for them.
I think everyone has their favourite gripe anyway as it affects their gameplay. For me it's the UI so any chance I get I'll mention it.
At least in this game there are not regular posts about how the game should be dumbed down or made easier for the lazy or incompetent. Some people have a very high sense of entitlement and completely ignore or care little for what their proposed changes would mean to other players. That used to drive me nuts in another game I played, especially as they listened to these people and wrecked a game I really enjoyed. That tends not to happen in EVE (except for the rage quitters and new players)
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Reading the forums you get a skewed impression due to whiners like Akita T...
Lolwut? There is a huge difference between the flood of "omg, nerf suicide ganking plz" by whiner posters with a ! portrait and Akita T who posts constructive criticism about concepts of the game in which he has actually explored and fully understands all the corresponding mechanics.
CCP, seriously now, discipline or fire your economist already !!!
The above thread comes out as a whine over how EvE hasn't been changed in the directions the great Akita T feels best for EvE. It ignores that first; change does not happen overnight even when the idea is good, as development of a large project such as EvE is not the same as writing rants on the EvE forums.
Second; we know CCP devs post on the forums with alts due to various reasons. That the doctor has not graced Akita T's threads with his blue presences does not mean he hasn't followed them or posted in them.
Basically it comes down to this... Discussion is good, but ranting in GD cause your changes aren't on SiSi _this very moment_ or that the QEN doesn't contain all the information you want... isn't.
Originally by: Vaal Erit You rarely see posts from "nano***s" or "0.0 alliance carebears". Not sure what forums you are actually reading but it certainly hasn't been the EVE forums.
Heh... You sure?
The nano*** era is something few of us will forget, and if you missed it then _good for you_. Today we have the 0.0 alliance carebears whining about fleet lag inducing bugs, sov mechanisms and upkeep prices in every single dev blog thread or announcement of new features. If you missed them I suggest getting a bigger monitor with high contrast. ^_^
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.02.25 04:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: HellGate fr For me, missiles were too much nerfed since Quantum Rise, and the nano one is a bit harsh tough
There is a ship out there called the Typhoon. It gets the exact same bonus for both missiles and projectiles and has the exact same amount of slots for either. This means you have to base your decision solely on the stats/advantages of each weapon type. Well guess what 80% of people fit on their Typhoon? You would think Projectiles as that is the main Minmatar weapon used for most of the other Matar ships, yet people still pick missiles.
I personally like Projectiles over Missiles, but the stats don't lie.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.25 05:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Solid Star
Originally by: HellGate fr For me, missiles were too much nerfed since Quantum Rise, and the nano one is a bit harsh tough
There is a ship out there called the Typhoon. It gets the exact same bonus for both missiles and projectiles and has the exact same amount of slots for either. This means you have to base your decision solely on the stats/advantages of each weapon type. Well guess what 80% of people fit on their Typhoon? You would think Projectiles as that is the main Minmatar weapon used for most of the other Matar ships, yet people still pick missiles.
I personally like Projectiles over Missiles, but the stats don't lie.
un I think on that particular ship missiles are preferred not just because of raw dps (torps..) but because it allows the pilot to ignore tracking/range crap and just get up close and personal with neuts Could be wrong though. OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY! Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
Alchemist's Alt
Gallente Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.02.25 05:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: Solid Star
Originally by: HellGate fr For me, missiles were too much nerfed since Quantum Rise, and the nano one is a bit harsh tough
There is a ship out there called the Typhoon. It gets the exact same bonus for both missiles and projectiles and has the exact same amount of slots for either. This means you have to base your decision solely on the stats/advantages of each weapon type. Well guess what 80% of people fit on their Typhoon? You would think Projectiles as that is the main Minmatar weapon used for most of the other Matar ships, yet people still pick missiles.
I personally like Projectiles over Missiles, but the stats don't lie.
un I think on that particular ship missiles are preferred not just because of raw dps (torps..) but because it allows the pilot to ignore tracking/range crap and just get up close and personal with neuts Could be wrong though.
Guess im the only one that enjoys a good old 4/4 setup XD, powergrid / cpu gets all anal if isnt 4/4 imo FIRST!! |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.02.25 05:36:00 -
[16]
Nooo, that Akita T thread is not a whine. It is common knowledge. Everyone knows what a joke the "economist" is that CCP hired. I read Akita T's post and no where does Akita T mention that she wants the game changed in his way and demands it on Sisi now. He simply wants someone who is not doing his job for the past few years to gtfo. It is not a difficult concept. Training reading to level 1.
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Vaal Erit You rarely see posts from "nano***s" or "0.0 alliance carebears". Not sure what forums you are actually reading but it certainly hasn't been the EVE forums.
Heh... You sure?
The nano*** era is something few of us will forget, and if you missed it then _good for you_. Today we have the 0.0 alliance carebears whining about fleet lag inducing bugs, sov mechanisms and upkeep prices in every single dev blog thread or announcement of new features. If you missed them I suggest getting a bigger monitor with high contrast. ^_^
Yes, I actually play the game AND read the forums. The speed re-balancing was well over a year ago, it was released in Quantum Rise in '08 ffs. How many whines have their been about nanos since then? Basically zero. Of all the whining that is done, the speed changes are a drop in the bucket.
0.0 alliance members complaining about lag are perfectly reasonable as they cannot play the game. They are not carebears, perhaps if you actually played the game called EVE-Online you'd have some knowledge about some of the terms or the game or about anything. You are just a clueless dolt.
Feel free to show me the recent threadnaughts on the speed changes, I will enjoy making you look foolish even more.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
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Posted - 2010.02.25 07:29:00 -
[17]
Hate is a pretty strong word, what I dislike about CCP:
* That they take years for balancing changes (nano, lasers, hybrids, projectiles, etc.). Seriously, WTF, other MMOs do it in small increments, CCP waits two years and then does a huge revamp that breaks everything for a month before they get it figured out.
* The horrid UI, seriously, fix it.
* Their refusal to fix certain broken/painful things (like POSes).
That's about it for me.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.02.25 07:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vaal Erit 0.0 alliance members complaining about lag are perfectly reasonable as they cannot play the game. They are not carebears, perhaps if you actually played the game called EVE-Online you'd have some knowledge about some of the terms or the game or about anything. You are just a clueless dolt.
Feel free to show me the recent threadnaughts on the speed changes, I will enjoy making you look foolish even more.
There is eve-search.com for those who are senile or believers of Thursdayism.
I prefer to have a view of the world that includes past events, and as such nano-nerf threadnaughts of the past are still valid examples the behavior of some vocal minorities in Eve. Complaining about lag is reasonable?
It is reasonable after it is first detected.
It is reasonable to let the devs know it is a widespread problem.
It is _NOT_ reasonable to threadnaught after it has been acknowledged.
Neither is it reasonable to spam devblogs written by _ARTISTS_ introducing new models.
Go ahead, spam the QEN devblog to demand answers on why the lag isn't fixed _NOW_, because obviously they're still not aware of the problem nor trying to fix it.
Fake edit: 0.0 is stuffed with carebears that jump ship as soon as things go bad. Most don't even realize their true nature as they go about pew pew'ing the good fights.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.02.25 08:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab The above thread comes out as a whine over how EvE hasn't been changed in the directions the great Akita T feels best for EvE. It ignores that first; change does not happen overnight even when the idea is good, as development of a large project such as EvE is not the same as writing rants on the EvE forums.
Stop ignoring the ignorance displayed in every QEN. I fail to see how one could make good or even decent decisions of how to steer the economy with such a knowledge gap. And suggestions about how the QENs could be made better have been present since the very first one was published.
Originally by: Reten Kip That they take years for balancing changes [instead of] small increments, CCP waits two years and then does a huge revamp that breaks everything for a month before they get it figured out.
Agreed. Every rework/nerf in recent history has this characteristic. They take ages to fix balance issues, and when they finally do, the nerf magnitude is such that the item/ship/tactic under discussion becomes near irrelevant.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.25 09:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lashnar It seems that alot of people are going around shouting: "Fix the lag!" "EVE suckz since Dominion" Or my personally most hated: "This game is too complex, make it more easy"
Personally, I LOVED how this game said: "GIVE you a ship? GIVE you a million Isk? Hell no." And then tossed you in a ditch.
I also loved how the market was player driven, and I loved how complex this game is.
Sure, the game lags, any GOOD online game does. CCP is trying, but they also have to deliver those shiny planets too right? Which they did, that was an example.
But why do people still complain? Every time I start up EVE, I wish I had a better computer, (Netbooks are not good for EVE) so I could venture into null-sec and see all the glory that is space!
Anyway, thank you CCP for making such a great game...
Because since Apocrypha and Dominion CCP seems to make 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
Pre-Apocrypha, the sound engine had some issues and was not super awesome, but I was content with it, it was functional. Post-Apocrypha, alot of issues were introduced, and to this date we have to do combat with half the sound missing. Dominion only introduced more sound issues.
Pre-Dominion, the game performed good, and records were broken ( Jita, large fleet fights, etc ). Then Dominion releases and a ****load of lag is introduced and no sign of a fix in sight.
I feel that content/gameplay wise the game is improving, but the stability is worsening and long standing issues ( like a working sound engine ... ) are not fixed.
If you come from any other mmo here as a newbie, then you wonder WTF? How does everyone play with no sound?
About the game being too complex, only people that don't get EVE would complain about that, and they should find another game to play, but that is not a widespread complaint.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.02.25 10:01:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 25/02/2010 10:01:40 Some people whine because they love the game and care about it becoming better.
Some people whine because they're idiots.
You have to be able to separate the two. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Lexx Khadar
Minmatar Aesir Fleet
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Posted - 2010.02.25 10:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lexx Khadar on 25/02/2010 10:51:41 Even if they fixed all currently complained of problems you'd have people moaning about something. Some people are just like that. I wouldn't take a lot of threads even in general discussion seriously. All mmo's forum communities are just very vocal minorities compared to the wider player-base. That most likely don't even know of or use the forums.
In short just take most the moaning with a large pinch of salt.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2010.02.25 11:03:00 -
[23]
Keep in mind that people who are generally happy with the game aren't usually motivated to post about it compared to someone is unhappy and wants to vent (you also need to account for the usual troll posts as well).
You will know when people are really annoyed with Eve or CCP when subscription numbers start regularly dropping, aside from that I wouldn't let it bother you too much.
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Digital Solaris
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.25 11:21:00 -
[24]
CCP manipulates after its own whim. Then CCP feeds off the passion, hate, love or whatever it can be. CCP is SO evil!
Still an awesome game developer though.
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Pellit1
Caldari Bushwhackers Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.02.25 11:39:00 -
[25]
Because there are many things wrong, that are needlessly wrong, but yet CCP don't fix them. ------------- Rough Necks Alliance
BOOST FALCONS. Nerf whiners.
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SomebodyKickedMyDog
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Posted - 2010.02.25 14:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lashnar But why do people still complain ?
Because if you like something, you want it to become PERFECT (or as close to perfect as possible). Every little step backwards is like a personal affront then. You should really start worrying when people STOP complaining. It means they no longer care enough to even complain, because the alternative would be that the game reached perfection for everybody, which is practically impossible.
that's actually a good point. when there's something that really bothers me about eve and i feel like complaining, it's because i like eve, and i don't want whatever it is that's bothering me to spoil that. i also want it to move forward and continue to improve and be even better in the ways that it currently lacks.
i think another part of it is that the game is so complex, there's always going to be something that affects some subset of players that they complain about, whether it has to do with pvp, mining, missions, lowsec, highsec, nullsec, certain ships, races, etc, etc that other players don't care about.
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.02.25 14:50:00 -
[27]
I hate CCP because i'm not it
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.02.25 15:50:00 -
[28]
You¦re wrong, we all love CCP, even Tuxford!
On the ohter hand we ALL know that CCP hates Gallente!
Just my two cents.
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Angry Poster
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Posted - 2010.02.25 16:20:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lashnar Personally, I LOVED how this game said: "GIVE you a ship? GIVE you a million Isk? Hell no." And then tossed you in a ditch.
I also loved how the market was player driven, and I loved how complex this game is.
Sure, the game lags, any GOOD online game does.
I personally think CCP are doing a good enough job. Making EVE less complex is definitely a bad thing and also not really a goal of CCP.
What you are ignoring when it comes to lag is the fact, that the lag got A LOT WORSE with Dominion. I think that's the main reason why everyone gets very mad a CCP. I personally would rather trade the fancy (but utterly useless) planet graphics and sov upgrades if I could get lag-free fleet fights again. That's what makes people mad (including me). The game was running fairly well (much better then in the previous 4 years) and then CCP go and mess everything up with their newest patch and make large engagements totally unplayable again. It's the "again" bit that ****es me off.
Of course the reason for this is that it's easier for the marketing department to sell new planet graphics then to make advertisement with the fact that they're game is stable and lag-free with battles up to 500 people (which is currently back down to 100ish).
I thinks that's what bringing the hate. CCP has not attracted us loyal long-term customers with stupid graphic gimmicks. They attracted us with a cool concept and the promise of epic battles.
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.02.25 17:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lashnar It seems that alot of people are going around shouting: "Fix the lag!" "EVE suckz since Dominion" Or my personally most hated: "This game is too complex, make it more easy"
Personally, I LOVED how this game said: "GIVE you a ship? GIVE you a million Isk? Hell no." And then tossed you in a ditch.
I also loved how the market was player driven, and I loved how complex this game is.
Sure, the game lags, any GOOD online game does. CCP is trying, but they also have to deliver those shiny planets too right? Which they did, that was an example.
But why do people still complain? Every time I start up EVE, I wish I had a better computer, (Netbooks are not good for EVE) so I could venture into null-sec and see all the glory that is space!
Anyway, thank you CCP for making such a great game...
While the game could use some tweaking to get where it needs to be, I certainly don't hate it.
The player base... well, that's a different story. I hate about half of them. Or lets say a quarter of them that have half the characters, to be more precise. While any MMO attracts it's share of complete morons, this one seems to attract more than most.
The fix would be to reduce to one character per acct and remove the two week free trial. Won't change the gameplay (much) and the griefers will, for the most part, go elsewhere where they can have free playtime to practice their asshattry.
Mr Epeen
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