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Lord Dralos
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Posted - 2010.02.26 02:59:00 -
[1]
So here comes the question are the likes of the nightmare and rattlesnake battle ships sounding a death knell to the traditional empire battle ships like the megathron and the appocalypse.
just look at the 100% damage bonus on the nightmare for instance ok its got 4 guns spaces you say fine but they just got 100% boost per gun for damage so they hitting like they got 8 guns they still got 2 spaces for vamps neuts etc.
and then that extra cap to use due to not having to power up 8 guns just 4 so the extra cap can go to the tank or neuts etc.
so anyone want to make things clearer or to just add their thoughts about these pirate ships ?
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Hormone1971
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.26 03:04:00 -
[2]
Simple answer is NO.
For one they are 7 times the price. Its not a fair comparison to compare a faction BS to a T1 ship. It least compare a faction or T2 ship to a pirate BS.
So there, done. Close thread.
Pull my finger. |
Yarinor
Yarinors Trust Fund
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Posted - 2010.02.26 03:36:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Hormone1971
Simple answer is NO.
For one they are 7 times the price. Its not a fair comparison to compare a faction BS to a T1 ship. It least compare a faction or T2 ship to a pirate BS.
So there, done. Close thread.
7 times the price? T1 bs are free after insurance
@OP
You can't compare the cap of using 4 guns vs cap of using 8 unless you actually look at the cap of the ship, the capacitor siza/rechargerate has probably been designed with this in mind.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.26 05:27:00 -
[4]
you should go read the devblog on the faction ship rebalancing 
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2010.02.26 05:51:00 -
[5]
Moved from EVE General Discussion.
Applebabe
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2010.02.26 09:36:00 -
[6]
When you get a 30 man fleet of your choice of faction BS together I will bow before your undisputed awesomeness.
Then I will X up for the hundred + man blob that forms to hotdrop MS, Titans, Carriers, Dreads, Bops, Subcaps, and the kitchen sink on you.
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Batty Mael
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Posted - 2010.02.26 13:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
When you get a 30 man fleet of your choice of faction BS together I will bow before your undisputed awesomeness.
Then I will X up for the hundred + man blob that forms to hotdrop MS, Titans, Carriers, Dreads, Bops, Subcaps, and the kitchen sink on you.
We got 10 out on one roam + a bunch of assorted smaller faction ships, didnt get hotdroped by anything either...
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Oriss Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.26 13:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
When you get a 30 man fleet of your choice of faction BS together I will bow before your undisputed awesomeness.
Then I will X up for the hundred + man blob that forms to hotdrop MS, Titans, Carriers, Dreads, Bops, Subcaps, and the kitchen sink on you.
>Implying low->null sec is the only area where large BS fleets are viable.
lol.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.26 13:43:00 -
[9]
The pirate ships are designed to be equal to or slightly better than T2 equivalents (its in the blog yo!). If you look at them in that light they are very much balanced.
Now take the Navy ships which are designed to be almost T2 level performance and you get a much fairer point of comparison.
Biggest thing all the faction boats have going for them is the +50% hull/armour/shield values .. in this age of buffers that is HUGE!
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.02.26 16:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
When you get a 30 man fleet of your choice of faction BS together I will bow before your undisputed awesomeness.
Then I will X up for the hundred + man blob that forms to hotdrop MS, Titans, Carriers, Dreads, Bops, Subcaps, and the kitchen sink on you.
We had a gang of about 15 or so roam into our space a couple weeks ago, it was nothing but Machs, Cynabals, and drams.
Besides, I'm never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down |
Rias Bane
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Posted - 2010.02.26 19:33:00 -
[11]
TBH it's a numbers game based on your skills, the 100% damage bonus ships seem scary to begin with but in reality with good skills most lvl V pilots can eek more DPS out of T1 or Navy BS for example a T1 mega has 7 turret slots against a bhaalgorn.
Some basic Maths...assume for the following calculations that each turret does 100 damage.
Bhaalgorn 4 Turrets = 400 + 100% damage = 800 damage
Megathron 7 Turrets = 700 + 25% damage = 875 Damage
Based on that alone for basic mission running a lvl V gallente pilot will out hit a pilot in a Bhaalgorn despite their 100% damage bonus.
The nightmare that you've used as an example does have additional damage bonuses based on the caldari BS skill so it could hit harder than pretty much any t1 BS and I've got a buddy who uses one for mission running because the epic damage plus the damn fine tank it is capabale of sustaining but he doesn't use it for PvP though favouring Navy class ships based on the massive buffer and high DPS they offer.
I guess the point (of what in reflection is kind of a lot of rhetoric, sorry for that I digress a lot...anybody else getting the irony of this particular soliloquy or just me lol) is that you gotta ask the question why are you considering a faction BS is it for PvE, in which case Neuts are kinda wasted and Nos's have limited use so why else are you wanting the extra hi slots...and is the extra iskies worth it.
Try giving a little more context to your question purpose, pvp, pve etc.
But it's down to the pilot and their wallet, I have a CNR which was kind of a gift, a good friend gave up eve and gave it to me which I use for PVE only and I have a Navy scorp that I use for BS pvp...but that's because I had teh cash...and a whole host of other reasons I'll not digress further tho'.
Bane
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.02.26 21:56:00 -
[12]
Quote:
so anyone want to make things clearer or to just add their thoughts about these pirate ships ?
Nightmare has 4 turrents x 100% bonus = 8 turrent x 25% (Caldari BS 5) = 10 turrents.
Hyperion has 8 turrents x 25% bonus (Gal BS 5) = 10 turrets
Hyperion is 124 million on market, Nightmare is 750 million on contracts.
Hyperion could be run after 3-4 months of half assed skill training, fully dispoable after insurance. Nightmare I wouldn't be running without more then six months, probably 9+ to get Tech 2 guns, both Amarr/Caldari BS 5 and better tank skills to be on the safe side because if insured the nightmare will only drop about 125 million (not sure on exact ammount  ) in the wallet when it explodes.
The reason a pirate or faction ship look better is because they are better then their tech 1 empire counter parts, at higher costs. They are nothing but isk sinks as isk is easy to generate, the consequences of what you fly in EVE for the price tag are up to the pilot. There are people that still fly dominixs after several years because its not even a loss to them even with several billion isk in the wallet, while the Rattlesnake could kill things faster with torps and heavies/senties while the dominix would use those same drones and use hybrid guns, not to mention the difference of the tank skill requirements. Ultimately its just a "different" ship to fly for fun 
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Galleter
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Posted - 2010.02.27 02:23:00 -
[13]
nightmare has realy crapy capacitor.
lasers and shield booster dont work until you have very good modules,
and if you have you will be dead soon.
Small shield buffer, crappy resists - not worth this isk at all.
this ship should have one more bonus to resists, better cap, and 125% to damage - no 100%.
rattle-snake is much better.
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e eek'd
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Posted - 2010.02.27 09:25:00 -
[14]
Screw pirate ships, use navys!
[Megathron Navy Issue, POWAH]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge L
True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Berserker II x5
Berserker II x2
just look at that monstrus thingy for the same price of a mach LOL!!
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Lord Ozu
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Posted - 2010.02.27 11:35:00 -
[15]
ROFL no damage mods
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Songbird
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Posted - 2010.02.27 12:12:00 -
[16]
both vindi and machariel have the highest damage mods of any of hybrid and projectile ships out there to begin with. machariel esp can easilly have 4 damage mods and 3 tracking enhancers in the lows giving you even more range than you can target at,and even higher ROF and damage than it's bonus would suggest.(when used for PvE and instead of the marauder)
Nightmare is the t1 equivalent of a marauder. Since it can easily fit 4 tachyons you get range and high damage(multifreq at 50-60km is win). Can it be replaced by a pulse apoc - less damage and armor tanking but essentially the difference with high skills is small enough. But then again with high skills you can easily collect the 700 mil to get a nm. oh yes - a little nightmare pvp video that I enjoy very much .
here
and here
Rattlesnake - the ship with 2500 omni tank. Come on that fact right there is the win. Yes it's a domi with 4 cruise/siege launchers. Still I wouldn't afk AE bonus room in a domi.
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