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Sham WoW
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Posted - 2010.02.27 04:53:00 -
[1]
I know it is long accepted that missiles, especially long range ones, have some serious drawbacks in PVP.
Their flight time makes their range into a timer. If you think in mathematical terms, missiles probably have the biggest 'miss' factor in that missiles fired only deal damage once they reach their target. That aside, there are still factors involved in missile damage reduction.
SO: as a fleet commander of a dozen or so ships, some including heavy missiles and cruise missiles, how would you handle say 3-4 of your ships as such where 8 or so are 'dps' ships of short range/mwd/blast em up?
I have been thinking of calling secondary targets for missile firing ships as long as I am confident that the close range DPS boats will bring down their target (and usually they do). This would possibly allow the primary damage dealers to also hit that target second and finish it off, while the missile fleet addresses a new target so as to maximize missiles hit/minimize missiles that never hit.
What are your thoughts guys? I know a web and paint can be helpful, but the way I see it, you generally want your missiles firing at targets that have a big enough sig raid that you don't suffer a big reduction in damage: that or a webbed (nearly stopped) t2 smaller ship can be decimated once the missiles reach their target.
How do you guys use fleets that include a handful of longer range missile caldari 'pvp'ers?
And what are your thoughts on EM as a general damage type?
Thanks!
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Alpha Wolfgang
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.02.27 05:45:00 -
[2]
are there any devices like a target painter that speed up missiles a lot more? there should be one, one guy locks on and paints the target and missiles that are going at that target cruise twice as fast?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.27 06:07:00 -
[3]
If you're in a situation where missile flight time is a factor, close-range gank ships are completely worthless. Missiles may have a delay before hitting, but that is nothing compared to the delay while your close-range gank ship wastes all of its cap MWDing over to the next target.
If you're in a small-gang fight, the flight time is especially irrelevant, as you can't really get into true insta-pop problems until you have larger fleets focusing fire on the primary. If it takes 30 seconds or more to kill the target, an extra 3-5 seconds of flight time is really not that much of an issue.
If you're in a large fleet fight, then missile ships are anti-support ships and remove ewar cruisers/interdictors/etc instead of shooting the primary. -----------
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.02.27 06:19:00 -
[4]
Merin as usual is right,
Also in small gangs I actually think missles have alot of advantage as usually the Drakes get fired on last [ravens get fired on first alot of times] So this means that your Drakes/Cerbs Can be spitting missles at targets who are concentrating on there primary targets and more vulnerable. But I think splitting them into groups of Short range and long range is a must...
But try to have them bring HM platforms rather than cruises. Cruises are slower and have way bigger sigs so the Hm`s while doing less dps probably does more in general. They can help from killing enemy ECM boats to logi cruisers etc.
Also you can sneak your smaller missle fleet out to "Bait" a bigger fleet than your 5 ships but way smaller than your 12 and the Drakes can lock them up while you all warp ontop of them...In small groups diversity is great in alot of ways.
I wouldnt use missles as snipers but at 25-55km they are awesome, They stay alive long, they are underestimated and they can kill from Frigs to BS`s. ESP when enemy tacklers are closing in the missles are great because they are usually MWD`ing towards you and there sig`s bloom.
So have your 5 missle ships shoot at all on coming enemies who are closing into range, they might bug out after getting alot of DMG and thats a win also. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.27 06:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 27/02/2010 06:40:30 2000 damage volleys, delivered after a whoopass of short range fire make excellent final blows. ------------
+15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG |
ceyriot
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Posted - 2010.02.27 07:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 27/02/2010 06:40:30 2000 damage volleys, delivered after a whoopass of short range fire make excellent final blows.
I'm more of the closrange PEWPEW guy, but I appreciate missiles for what they can do. If you ahve a bunch of Heavy Missile platforms removed from the brawl (IE, 30+ KM away) they can literally just unload their missiles as fast as they can into the fray without a worry.
And since its Heavy Missiles, they hit hard on everybody.
(I'm training up my missile skills)
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Minerva Moore
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sham WoW I know it is long accepted that missiles, especially long range ones, have some serious drawbacks in PVP.
Their flight time makes their range into a timer. If you think in mathematical terms, missiles probably have the biggest 'miss' factor in that missiles fired only deal damage once they reach their target. That aside, there are still factors involved in missile damage reduction.
SO: as a fleet commander of a dozen or so ships, some including heavy missiles and cruise missiles, how would you handle say 3-4 of your ships as such where 8 or so are 'dps' ships of short range/mwd/blast em up?
I have been thinking of calling secondary targets for missile firing ships as long as I am confident that the close range DPS boats will bring down their target (and usually they do). This would possibly allow the primary damage dealers to also hit that target second and finish it off, while the missile fleet addresses a new target so as to maximize missiles hit/minimize missiles that never hit.
What are your thoughts guys? I know a web and paint can be helpful, but the way I see it, you generally want your missiles firing at targets that have a big enough sig raid that you don't suffer a big reduction in damage: that or a webbed (nearly stopped) t2 smaller ship can be decimated once the missiles reach their target.
How do you guys use fleets that include a handful of longer range missile caldari 'pvp'ers?
And what are your thoughts on EM as a general damage type?
Thanks!
I've been reading through the answers and it's always amusing to see the EFT warriors develop their little theories about how great missiles are in pvp.
Meanwhile, in the real EVE... the missile delay is a huge drawback and it makes missiles the worst weapon system in any type of pvp, at any range. Period. Any which way you slice it, you hit after your gangmates. This problem obviously gets worse with range (which means a missile BS is not a sniper BS at all, primary will be dead when the missiles get there) but the cute theory that you sit there and hit while your close range gunned up gangmates "mwd their cap away" has nothing to do with how it works in real fights.
Let me explain why this is utter nonsense: if the fleet is short range and the FC is half-competent there will be no MWD-ing to be done because the warp-in will be at optimal. Anyone with the slightest experience knows that it's all about getting in at your optimal. In a long range fleet... well see above. Sorry, missiles fail.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:44:00 -
[8]
This is easy : Ask them to change to a turret ship or tackler :)
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Minerva Moore Sorry, missiles fail.
Hams and hmls work perfectly for me. Smls too /when loaded into amls/. I dont use cruises and torps so i cant say.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Minerva Moore
I've been reading through the answers and it's always amusing to see the EFT warriors develop their little theories about how great missiles are in pvp.
Meanwhile, in the real EVE... the missile delay is a huge drawback and it makes missiles the worst weapon system in any type of pvp, at any range. Period. Any which way you slice it, you hit after your gangmates. This problem obviously gets worse with range (which means a missile BS is not a sniper BS at all, primary will be dead when the missiles get there) but the cute theory that you sit there and hit while your close range gunned up gangmates "mwd their cap away" has nothing to do with how it works in real fights.
Let me explain why this is utter nonsense: if the fleet is short range and the FC is half-competent there will be no MWD-ing to be done because the warp-in will be at optimal. Anyone with the slightest experience knows that it's all about getting in at your optimal. In a long range fleet... well see above. Sorry, missiles fail.
Nah, you're just clueless.
In small gang PVP, missiles are just fine as the flight time is negligible. This is made evident by how successful Drakes are in *real* PVP.
Everyone being in optimal imlplies that targets never move. Really? You're in fights where your opponent doesn't move? Is that leet PVP?
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
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Minerva Moore
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Petra Katell
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
This comment alone speaks to your lack of experience.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Minerva Moore
Originally by: Petra Katell
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
This comment alone speaks to your lack of experience.
Yep, you're right. I've been in more large fleet fights than I can count.
I don't do them anymore though. For a reason though, it's boring.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Petra Katell
Nah, you're just clueless.
In small gang PVP, missiles are just fine as the flight time is negligible. This is made evident by how successful Drakes are in *real* PVP.
Everyone being in optimal imlplies that targets never move. Really? You're in fights where your opponent doesn't move? Is that leet PVP?
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
Actually he/she is right,and you are clueless. Small gang so no long range missiles are needed--> torps oh that needs way more modules to be able to do its full dps than turrets,still delayed. HMLs at least usable here.
Large gang -> so usually delay makes you unable to dmg the primar with huge gang you cant even dmg the secondary. Oh and try to find a target caller who will call tertiary or specially for missiles...
Cruise missiles have no role atm.Rockets are crap, SMLs also,they need too much pg/cpu for being a frig sized weapon ,also dmg is too much dependant on targets speed, much less usefull than small turrets. Assault missile launcers only work because they are cruiser sized weapons firing frig sized missiles ,and needs little pg/cpu. HAMs need way too much pg/cpu,so your cruiser cant realy fit a tank. HMLs seems fine,until you are not in a huge sniper hac gang :O Torps too dependant on targets sig/speed, also raven/scorp are hard to fit up with siege launcers. Cruise missile just completly useless in pvp, has some uses in pve but every other weapon will be better there.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:05:00 -
[14]
You must be all pretty incompetent because even in blobs i can project serious dps to targets with my hml drake/cerb.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:16:00 -
[15]
Yep, my missile user is on the top of mails most of the time. Granted I have 15 mil just in missiles.
This, of course, is in small fleets of 100 mil SP chars with 20+ in gunnery. My torp user still comes out on top.
But yes, they're worthless.
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Petra Katell
Nah, you're just clueless.
In small gang PVP, missiles are just fine as the flight time is negligible. This is made evident by how successful Drakes are in *real* PVP.
Everyone being in optimal imlplies that targets never move. Really? You're in fights where your opponent doesn't move? Is that leet PVP?
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
Actually he/she is right,and you are clueless. Small gang so no long range missiles are needed--> torps oh that needs way more modules to be able to do its full dps than turrets,still delayed. HMLs at least usable here.
Large gang -> so usually delay makes you unable to dmg the primar with huge gang you cant even dmg the secondary. Oh and try to find a target caller who will call tertiary or specially for missiles...
Cruise missiles have no role atm.Rockets are crap, SMLs also,they need too much pg/cpu for being a frig sized weapon ,also dmg is too much dependant on targets speed, much less usefull than small turrets. Assault missile launcers only work because they are cruiser sized weapons firing frig sized missiles ,and needs little pg/cpu. HAMs need way too much pg/cpu,so your cruiser cant realy fit a tank. HMLs seems fine,until you are not in a huge sniper hac gang :O Torps too dependant on targets sig/speed, also raven/scorp are hard to fit up with siege launcers. Cruise missile just completly useless in pvp, has some uses in pve but every other weapon will be better there.
You anti missle guys have way past missed the mark...In small gangs missles are wonderful period. They do way better dmg up close than lasers because tracking and way better dmg at mid because falloff for blasters.
And in larger fleets WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT ANTI SUPPORT SHIPS?
Lets say your enemy has a falcon, 2 curses, and 2 Logi`s....Most these ships have paper thin tanks and depend on speed to make your groups BS`s miss. So you have your 4 Drakes/Cerbs fire on these ships now....
Now the enemy support ships have 2 options they can stay and jam/Nuet your BS`s or watch the missles come and slam into them for good amounts of DMG and kill them regardless of them being at whatever range and if using HML`s basically regardless of speed for cruisers.
Missles work to remove support ships from the grid even if they arent killed 100% of the time...getting there support ships to warp off is a victory since they wont be jamming your main DPS dealers. Also if you have rooks or missle curses you can be jamming while driving there support ships off, no one has said they are superior in large fleets to DMg dealing BS`s but they sure do have a anti support role.
While the curses Tracking dists turn your huge insta DPS turrets into blind Hogs our HML`s drive them away period. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Minerva Moore I've been reading through the answers and it's always amusing to see the EFT warriors develop their little theories about how great missiles are in pvp.
Meanwhile, in the real EVE... the missile delay is a huge drawback and it makes missiles the worst weapon system in any type of pvp, at any range. Period. Any which way you slice it, you hit after your gangmates. This problem obviously gets worse with range (which means a missile BS is not a sniper BS at all, primary will be dead when the missiles get there) but the cute theory that you sit there and hit while your close range gunned up gangmates "mwd their cap away" has nothing to do with how it works in real fights.
Let me explain why this is utter nonsense: if the fleet is short range and the FC is half-competent there will be no MWD-ing to be done because the warp-in will be at optimal. Anyone with the slightest experience knows that it's all about getting in at your optimal. In a long range fleet... well see above. Sorry, missiles fail.
Get out of your lagtastic 0.0 blob and do some real PVP.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 01/03/2010 21:34:09
Originally by: Kail Storm
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Petra Katell
Nah, you're just clueless.
In small gang PVP, missiles are just fine as the flight time is negligible. This is made evident by how successful Drakes are in *real* PVP.
Everyone being in optimal imlplies that targets never move. Really? You're in fights where your opponent doesn't move? Is that leet PVP?
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
Actually he/she is right,and you are clueless. Small gang so no long range missiles are needed--> torps oh that needs way more modules to be able to do its full dps than turrets,still delayed. HMLs at least usable here.
Large gang -> so usually delay makes you unable to dmg the primar with huge gang you cant even dmg the secondary. Oh and try to find a target caller who will call tertiary or specially for missiles...
Cruise missiles have no role atm.Rockets are crap, SMLs also,they need too much pg/cpu for being a frig sized weapon ,also dmg is too much dependant on targets speed, much less usefull than small turrets. Assault missile launcers only work because they are cruiser sized weapons firing frig sized missiles ,and needs little pg/cpu. HAMs need way too much pg/cpu,so your cruiser cant realy fit a tank. HMLs seems fine,until you are not in a huge sniper hac gang :O Torps too dependant on targets sig/speed, also raven/scorp are hard to fit up with siege launcers. Cruise missile just completly useless in pvp, has some uses in pve but every other weapon will be better there.
You anti missle guys have way past missed the mark...In small gangs missles are wonderful period. They do way better dmg up close than lasers because tracking and way better dmg at mid because falloff for blasters.
And in larger fleets WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT ANTI SUPPORT SHIPS?
Lets say your enemy has a falcon, 2 curses, and 2 Logi`s....Most these ships have paper thin tanks and depend on speed to make your groups BS`s miss. So you have your 4 Drakes/Cerbs fire on these ships now....
Now the enemy support ships have 2 options they can stay and jam/Nuet your BS`s or watch the missles come and slam into them for good amounts of DMG and kill them regardless of them being at whatever range and if using HML`s basically regardless of speed for cruisers.
Missles work to remove support ships from the grid even if they arent killed 100% of the time...getting there support ships to warp off is a victory since they wont be jamming your main DPS dealers. Also if you have rooks or missle curses you can be jamming while driving there support ships off, no one has said they are superior in large fleets to DMg dealing BS`s but they sure do have a anti support role.
While the curses Tracking dists turn your huge insta DPS turrets into blind Hogs our HML`s drive them away period.
In small fight missiles are not bad, but missile ships are , they will lack eighter tackler or tank except drake ofc:P
Turret ships could do the same or better,also fc usually calls the support ships first , maybe he is just do it right:O Usually there are not many support ships in enemy fleet when fleet fights happen. So a turret ship could be used for anti support role also , and probably would do the job much better as it would force the support ship to warp out way faster because your missiles needs around 15 secs to reach them. Also when support ships warp out/blown up 2-3 missile volleys will still be in space are wasted,that a huge dps loss. Oh and try to dmg logis with their high speed/low signatures,missiles will loss a huge dps there too.
Being top on killmails is pointless, the dps you have done during the fight what matters. It doesnt matter if in some killmails you are the top dmg dealer if in the other you have done 0dmg.
Gypsio III: I know you think low sec small gangs are the real pvp ,but for many of us 0.0 fights are. It makes no sense to force missile users out of those fight.
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Amarrbone
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Amarrbone on 01/03/2010 21:43:06 All I will say is this. Ships like the Sac and the Cerb become more dealdly the longer they are on the field. Tracking EWAR is useless against them. They are capless weapons that always hit their target, once that first flight gets there, there is no damage reduction from "missed or poor shots"
Are they ideal in massive fights with sniping? No. Small gang? Yes.
How would you like it if something like a Lachesis or a Rapier appeared, then a few SB's or Cerbs showed up?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:45:00 -
[20]
Naomi, I agree that Cruise has no role and that rockets are rubbish. Rockets are fixable; Cruise is not. In large-scale fleet PVP, there's basically no solution to the missile flight time issue when targets are popping to one volley.
But outside large sniper fleet, they're fine. It's not just a lowsec thing either, because the same tactics and fits are basically the same as in 0.0.
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Deva Blackfire
LOST IDEA C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gypsio III Naomi, I agree that Cruise has no role and that rockets are rubbish. Rockets are fixable; Cruise is not. In large-scale fleet PVP, there's basically no solution to the missile flight time issue when targets are popping to one volley.
Bull****. Solution is: teach missile pilots the basics of "how to pick correct target". If cerbs/ravens(lol)/whatever fire on primary from 150-200km then it doesnt mean missiles are broken. It means your missile pilots are stupid. Cerb pilots should learn to acquire correct targets, ones they can pop resonably fast. Try having 5 cerbs in your fleet of 100 and let em pick on ceptors/dictors. you can be sure most/all of those small fries will just die. And they will die much faster to those cerbs than to any other gunboat (be it beam zealot or muninng/eagles) you will have in gang. And why is that? Kinda large alpha (and dps for its class) + delayed attack = most pilots dont warp out till they get hit. If sabre (for ex.) gets hit by cerb he will get 1-2 more hits before he warps out. Thats one dead sabre. Same for other hacs - 5 cerbs firing at same hac can pretty much pop it before it aligns out/warps. But ofc you need to think what you fire at instead of whoring on mails because everyone else is firing at same target.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Petra Katell Edited by: Petra Katell on 01/03/2010 20:57:14
Originally by: Minerva Moore
Originally by: Petra Katell
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
This comment alone speaks to your lack of experience.
Yep, you're right, I bow to your greatness, oh clueless one.
I've been in more large fleet fights than I can count.
I don't do them anymore, it's boring.
Despite how boring PvE in EVE generally is, just because something is boring does not mean it's PvE.
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superteds
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 You must be all pretty incompetent because even in blobs i can project serious dps to targets with my hml drake/cerb.
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Petra Katell
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Petra Katell Edited by: Petra Katell on 01/03/2010 20:57:14
Originally by: Minerva Moore
Originally by: Petra Katell
Large fleet fights are a different matter and more akin to PVE anyway.
This comment alone speaks to your lack of experience.
Yep, you're right, I bow to your greatness, oh clueless one.
I've been in more large fleet fights than I can count.
I don't do them anymore, it's boring.
Despite how boring PvE in EVE generally is, just because something is boring does not mean it's PvE.
That is some ace logic there.
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Joe Censored
Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Joe Censored on 01/03/2010 22:35:58 Anyone who is crying about how missiles are fail for PVP just sucks at using missiles. Don't try to use missiles like they are guns. Its the people who mastered flying gun boats then try to fly a missile boat that seem to always complain the most. Its your personal tactics, not the missiles, that are at fault.
Missiles have several advantages/disadvantages vers the various guns in the game. Make the most of the advantages and use tactics to minimize the disadvantages and your missile ship will be high on the kill mails.
Primary Advantages: Selectable damage types No concept of transversal applies Requires no cap to fire
Primary Disadvantages: Flight time Can be out run at very high speeds
At close range a pilot with good missile skills should have no problems what so ever doing very well in a PVP battle. Missile flight time is near negligible at disruptor point range with good skills. If enemy ship types are known before the fight begins, the missile boat can switch to a damage type most likely to be a weakness in the enemy tanks, giving it a sizable DPS advantage in certain situations if done properly.
At longer ranges, that's where the missile pilot really needs to start thinking about how to deal his DPS. FCs should always be calling out primary and secondary targets. Missile pilots should be estimating the time it will take for your fleet's gun boats to destroy the primary target, and if that time is close to your missile flight time to the target range the missile pilots should know to begin firing on the secondary target. If missile flight time is approximately half the time it will take to destroy the primary target, the missile pilots should engage primary with the gun boats and switch to secondary when the primary has half its tank left. If done properly all missile boat DPS will count, with minimal wasted missiles. FCs should not have to dictate when and who the missile boats should be firing at to accomplish this. If a pilot can't handle this extra level of thinking during a fight, he should not be flying a missile boat and should switch to a gun boat.
If you have fail missile pilots though, thats when you see the primary destroyed followed by a stream of wasted missiles seconds later passing the wreck. That's the pilots treating their launchers as if they were gun turrets, basically poor pilots. The missile boat pilot should have been anticipating the destruction of the primary and already moved DPS to the secondary. That way the first missiles hitting the secondary will time with the destruction of the primary and the initial shots from your fleet's gun boats on the secondary. Its not a problem with the missiles as a PVP weapon in general. Missiles just require more skill on the part of the person pressing F1.
-Joe
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:42:00 -
[26]
The majority of fights/Kill mails you look at are small groups. Esp with the new Large fleet lag problems, and new SOV system that is tearing Alli`s apart for others to split up the pieces, small gangs in 00 are becoming way more advantageous.
Why take a Huge fleet to gamble on you winning the Lag war when you can use 5-10 small groups and attack your enemy in 3 diff systems and make them fight on multiple fronts.
I saw tons of huge fleets before dominion but now it seems like they are all 15 guys and less, and those fights dont happen at ranges where missles take 10-15 secs these are 30km 5 sec delay fights...At those ranges as said before up top this thread its almost an advantage since these ships concentrate on the "Insta dmg dealers" who are hitting them right away then all the sudden POW...5 Drakes spitting 500 DPS and 3k DMG per volley all hit at once. Thats 15k dmg to any ship thats is Slowish cruiser and above.
And like they said they will turn to warp out and be hit 2 more times. And there are not these great numbers of missed volleys every one talks about if you have good pilots, maybe 1 maybe at that range, but how many missed or weak shots from turrets being out of optimal or how many ammo switches?
You cant tell me at knife fight range you would rather have laser ships, or at 30km you rather Blasters or ACS`s...In small gangs that are less than 45km away they are the best of all worlds IMO. Now in big fleets and long range fights they get less useful compared to turrets but as I said smaller groups and Midrange battles are becoming the norm IMO. Maybe in part that minni doesnt suck now and they lean towards small gangs also. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.03.02 00:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: superteds
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 You must be all pretty incompetent because even in blobs i can project serious dps to targets with my hml drake/cerb.
_________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.02 11:40:00 -
[28]
rockets suck terribly standard - pathetic dps, but impressive range for frigates if that is worth anything assault launchers are good with missile speed bonus on caracal or cerberus, not much other use heavies are good all-around hams are good but high PG fitting requirements only allows normal fits on drake, onyx and sacrilege torps - good on typhoon, also on raven(but it'll be somewhat fragile) cruises - only good for pve or POS-shoot, doesn't work as anti-support anymore. Nice small feature is still delivering damage to targets going into pos shield. Furthermore, you're already reading my sig |
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