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Where is the black ops?

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Erathsmus	Posted - 2010.02.27 07:09:00 - [1] Where is the black ops? Is it cloaked or does no one fly it anymore? I would really love to see the devs reconfigure some things on this ship to make it a bit more effective at what it does. It is t1 bs grade, has a terrible jump range, cannot warp cloaked (so much for sneaking without getting insta scanned), and is piloted less frequently then a titan. I think this ship is in need of some lovin. What do you guys think?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.27 07:34:00 - [2] I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
Alchemist's Alt Gallente Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.02.27 07:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Zeba I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. I normally dont agree with the zebra but this (expect the noobie bomber comment) makes sense Recons / Black Ops need a buff, bombers dont FIRST!!
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.02.27 08:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Zeba I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. Speaking as a Black Ops pilot... The ships are fine. The problem is that any stealth is negated when all you have to do is look at local to see if someone is in the system. Kind of defeats the whole 'stealth' aspect of flying a cloaked ship, doesn't it? Fix local and the ships will take care of themselves. Just make it so no talky means no showie. You speak and you are on the radar. I'm fine with that. Mr Epeen
Phaese Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.02.27 08:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Alchemist's Alt Originally by: Zeba I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. I normally dont agree with the zebra but this (expect the noobie bomber comment) makes sense Recons / Black Ops need a buff, bombers dont That's what he said.
Bozse Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.27 09:06:00 - [6] Same issue bombers had, as it is now it's a ship that can go on sneaky ops with bombers, recons, cov-ops and blockade runners that can all warp around cloaked, all but the black ops it self. Give it cov-ops cloak and it's fine, without it it's kinda meh for anything but a mobile jumpbridge. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Catheryn Martobi	Posted - 2010.02.27 09:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Catheryn Martobi on 27/02/2010 09:22:28 Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Zeba I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. Speaking as a Black Ops pilot... The ships are fine. The problem is that any stealth is negated when all you have to do is look at local to see if someone is in the system. Kind of defeats the whole 'stealth' aspect of flying a cloaked ship, doesn't it? Fix local and the ships will take care of themselves. Just make it so no talky means no showie. You speak and you are on the radar. I'm fine with that. Mr Epeen Even though it would do more harm than good for me, I completely agree. I spend a good majority of my time ratting. The only warning I usually get is local. Even so, I don't think local should be an all-knowing power. Edit: They should be able to fit covert ops cloaks too!
Daplat Mode Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.02.27 10:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Erathsmus Where is the black ops? Apparently doing its job. I would like to see covert cloaks implemented on the black ops. Some may argue that may make them a bit overpowered, but I think it would give pilots more confidence to field them, which ultimately means more chances to see them explode.
Beshla Tikolumor	Posted - 2010.02.27 11:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Daplat Mode Originally by: Erathsmus Where is the black ops? Apparently doing its job. I would like to see covert cloaks implemented on the black ops. Some may argue that may make them a bit overpowered, but I think it would give pilots more confidence to field them, which ultimately means more chances to see them explode. Blackops don't need a covops cloak. They need their jump range doubled and the fuel need for the jump bridge decimated.
Fulbert Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.27 11:24:00 - [10] With current Providence events, we have seen many bombers drops. Provi is a small region : many, many Providence and Catch systems are in BO-range one from the other. Black Ops are a huge investment, that's why you don't see much of them in space - not because they're underpowered or useless. By the way, they're designed to be docked-or-cloaked... IMHO they're not the most broken T2 ships in game atm... -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.27 11:31:00 - [11] I see them getting used so often it isnt funny. You cant attack a force recon anymore without 20 people, otherwise it just opens cyno and you got a fleet bridged on top of you. If you want to boost it, bring its combat ability up to the level of their t1 counter parts and/or increase their bridging performance (larger range, lower fuel, etc). Just dont give it a cov ops cloak, that will only make it into a solo pwnmobile. It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage, add to that the ability to bridge ships to cynos, the only other ship that is capable of that is a titan.
Bozse Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.27 13:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Furb Killer It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage What advantage would that be? It's not like it's invisible on scaner once jumped in to system, covert cloak on it won't change much more then the fact that it's used more as pointed out above. There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries	Posted - 2010.02.27 14:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Furb Killer It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage What advantage would that be? It's not like it's invisible on scaner once jumped in to system, covert cloak on it won't change much more then the fact that it's used more as pointed out above. There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. Exactly, it doesn't make sense that it can't use covert ops cloak.
Abraxias	Posted - 2010.02.27 15:58:00 - [14] Edited by: Abraxias on 27/02/2010 15:58:56 Originally by: Erathsmus Where is the black ops? Is it cloaked or does no one fly it anymore? I would really love to see the devs reconfigure some things on this ship to make it a bit more effective at what it does. It is t1 bs grade, has a terrible jump range, cannot warp cloaked (so much for sneaking without getting insta scanned), and is piloted less frequently then a titan. I think this ship is in need of some lovin. What do you guys think? A BlackOps shouldn't be seen, if its doing its job properly.
bff Jill	Posted - 2010.02.27 16:44:00 - [15] Edited by: bff Jill on 27/02/2010 16:45:00 i want a ganky invisible battleship. due to its size it should be advanced enough to do certain functions while cloaked such as lock targets. it also needs a tracking bonus and cov ops cloak.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.27 16:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Furb Killer It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage What advantage would that be? It's not like it's invisible on scaner once jumped in to system, covert cloak on it won't change much more then the fact that it's used more as pointed out above. There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. Going right past gatecamps? Staying several systems away, preferably in an empty system. Then when your scout tackles an enemy you can drop your entire gang on top of him. Looks pretty obvious to me.
Connner Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.27 19:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Furb Killer It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage What advantage would that be? It's not like it's invisible on scaner once jumped in to system, covert cloak on it won't change much more then the fact that it's used more as pointed out above. There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. If you're using a SB like that, you're doing it wrong. Its not intended to be a solopwnmobile, which is why it doesn't have the cov ops cloak. Its a support ship, not intended to be the main DPS in the fleet. Its intended use is to stealthily bridge a stealth group in behind enemy lines, via cov cyno. The bomber group or whatever can remain cloaked the whole time untill they attack, once they engage the BO can enter the melee, or not depending on the situation. A black op can be more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell.
bff Jill	Posted - 2010.02.27 20:01:00 - [18] But i want an invisible battleship to solo people in
Bozse Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.28 01:04:00 - [19] Originally by: Connner Originally by: Bozse Originally by: Furb Killer It is supposed to be a support ship, and the ability to jump to covert cynos is already a huge advantage What advantage would that be? It's not like it's invisible on scaner once jumped in to system, covert cloak on it won't change much more then the fact that it's used more as pointed out above. There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. If you're using a SB like that, you're doing it wrong. Its not intended to be a solopwnmobile, which is why it doesn't have the cov ops cloak. Its a support ship, not intended to be the main DPS in the fleet. Its intended use is to stealthily bridge a stealth group in behind enemy lines, via cov cyno. The bomber group or whatever can remain cloaked the whole time untill they attack, once they engage the BO can enter the melee, or not depending on the situation. A black op can be more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell. Never asked it to be a solopwnmobile, to operate behind enemy lines the covert cloak is what makes it usefull, without it it's just a BS with a cloak, and how often do you travel around in a BS worth 500m + with just a cloak. It's not like it will be invulnrable to gatecamps, lots of cloaking ships die to competent camps, and that not even BS sized ships, as is with only a normal cloak it's basicly garantied to die. At the end of the day what i'm looking for with the covert cloak is the ability to move around a bit safer in hostile terretory, beeing able to move around in a system once jumped in without everyone seeing you on scanner. Short of removing covert ships from local i'd say it's not to much to ask of a black ops ship, might even reduce the gang sizes a bit that goes around with them as it would give a sense of security. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Zedic Amarr Universalis Imperium	Posted - 2010.02.28 01:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Alchemist's Alt Originally by: Zeba I think the overall role of the entire 'stealth' lineup of ships sans the bombers need a complete rethink. Force recons need moar ew bonuses and combat(lulz) recons need moar gank. I normally dont agree with the zebra snip I'm finding that I do, (Zeba likes hickory smoked spam!!) and I agree with him/her on this as well.

Aralieus Amarr Rising Devils Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.02.28 01:40:00 - [21] Cov-Ops cloak please, thnx Fortune favors the bold!!!
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.02.28 05:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Bozse There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. You're doing it wrong. Black ops 101: find and tackle target with force recon, open 30 second invisible cyno, jump black ops directly to target, kill target, warp out to a safespot with the loot. If you're warping around in the same system as your target, you are doing something very, very wrong. Now, covops cloak would be nice, but mostly because the current cloak bonus is a complete waste. The main use of the covops cloak would be sneaking through gates which are too far apart to bypass with the jump drive, use of the cloak in combat would be pretty much nonexistent. -----------
Liang Nuren No Salvation War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.02.28 05:39:00 - [23] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 28/02/2010 05:39:41 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Bozse There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. You're doing it wrong. Black ops 101: find and tackle target with force recon, open 30 second invisible cyno, jump black ops directly to target, kill target, warp out to a safespot with the loot. If you're warping around in the same system as your target, you are doing something very, very wrong. Now, covops cloak would be nice, but mostly because the current cloak bonus is a complete waste. The main use of the covops cloak would be sneaking through gates which are too far apart to bypass with the jump drive, use of the cloak in combat would be pretty much nonexistent. Can I please trade my cloak bonus for a 20% jump range bonus thx. -Liang Ed: Covops cloak would also be acceptable, but I think I prefer the jump range bonus. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
sue denim	Posted - 2010.02.28 05:42:00 - [24] no covert ops cloak but it doesn't show up on the directional scanner? ;p
Bozse Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.28 06:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Bozse There is nothing covert with a ship that has to warp uncloaked, enter grid uncloaked to then cloak and try to 'sneak' up on it's target, and to me black ops is in the covert department of things. You're doing it wrong. Black ops 101: find and tackle target with force recon, open 30 second invisible cyno, jump black ops directly to target, kill target, warp out to a safespot with the loot. If you're warping around in the same system as your target, you are doing something very, very wrong. Just becuse you only can see one use of it doesn't automaticly mean i'm doing it wrong ;) I agree with the combat part not beeing affected for the most part though, it's more the moving about without beeing identified in system if needed, same for manual movement ability throu gates im interested in. The few times the covert cloak would help in a combat situation isn't game breaking in anyway and as such a poor argument to not allow it. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
Lithalnas Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.28 07:17:00 - [26] One thing black ops really needs is a unique functionality. Granted it has a portal generator which can sling bombers to other systems, but it needs something self centered to actually make it worth while. Let it jump to any star in eve without a cyno. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0 and cynojammed systems. Imagine a world where highsec people can jump ahead of fleeing prey. Imagine 0.0 gangs that jump into cynojamed systems without using the bubbled gate, pop off a few bombs, then cyno everyone back out. Lastly imagine a ship that costs 600 mil isk that people are willing to fly around... and get shot at, that can be killed by a small gang of 2-5 ships. -------------
Mr SmartGuy	Posted - 2010.02.28 07:25:00 - [27] Give it cov-ops cloak and I'll buy and fly one . Until then, it's pretty much useless.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.02.28 07:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Lithalnas One thing black ops really needs is a unique functionality. Granted it has a portal generator which can sling bombers to other systems, but it needs something self centered to actually make it worth while. Let it jump to any star in eve without a cyno. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0 and cynojammed systems. Imagine a world where highsec people can jump ahead of fleeing prey. Imagine 0.0 gangs that jump into cynojamed systems without using the bubbled gate, pop off a few bombs, then cyno everyone back out. Lastly imagine a ship that costs 600 mil isk that people are willing to fly around... and get shot at, that can be killed by a small gang of 2-5 ships. 0.0 is in jump range of Jita??
Haxfar Portlaind	Posted - 2010.02.28 09:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Lithalnas One thing black ops really needs is a unique functionality. Granted it has a portal generator which can sling bombers to other systems, but it needs something self centered to actually make it worth while. Let it jump to any star in eve without a cyno. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0 and cynojammed systems. Imagine a world where highsec people can jump ahead of fleeing prey. Imagine 0.0 gangs that jump into cynojamed systems without using the bubbled gate, pop off a few bombs, then cyno everyone back out. Lastly imagine a ship that costs 600 mil isk that people are willing to fly around... and get shot at, that can be killed by a small gang of 2-5 ships. hahahaha your funny... Serious, if could jump to any system without cyno, it could go into jove space, and that's a no-go. Besides, it can already jump ships into cyno jammed systems.
McFly Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2010.02.28 10:43:00 - [30] Edited by: McFly on 28/02/2010 10:44:25 cleared post. -- my sig got nerfed again, csm thread to get forum sig limitations lifted a bit



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