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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Wikis
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Posted - 2010.03.01 17:30:00 -
[1]
The idea is to make tactical shield manipulation actually do something usefull. Right now the only application is as prerequisite for modules.
Skill is bad for both shield and armor tankers. For shield tankers its bad because without the skill shield stay longer on the peak recharge rate, for armor tankers its bad, because damage which bleeds through shield to armor can be repaired anyway and again it reduces shield effective hp because shield stays less time on the peak recharge rate.
Why not give it some useful meaningful role ? For example give 10% to recharge rate at 5 or increase point of peak recharge rate to 40-45% at 5 (it is TACTICAL shield manipulation after all).
Do something meaningful with it, we do not want any drastic alterations, because changing skill mechanics to big degree is bad, people train something for long time and then all of a sudden they realize that skills is useless for them or doesn't work like they expected anymore (like happened to cruise missiles when SB mechanics was changed). So do some minor adjustment to make it really useful for tanking and keep it in line with concept of active tanking.
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Wikis
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Posted - 2010.03.01 17:52:00 -
[2]
support
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.03.01 17:54:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Wikis For example give 10% to recharge rate at 5 or increase point of peak recharge rate to 40-45% at 5
No. Blatant and unneeded buff to shields.
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Wikis
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Posted - 2010.03.01 17:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Aineko Macx
Originally by: Wikis For example give 10% to recharge rate at 5 or increase point of peak recharge rate to 40-45% at 5
No. Blatant and unneeded buff to shields.
go back under your bridge
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el Sabor
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Posted - 2010.03.01 18:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Wikis
Originally by: Aineko Macx
Originally by: Wikis For example give 10% to recharge rate at 5 or increase point of peak recharge rate to 40-45% at 5
No. Blatant and unneeded buff to shields.
go back under your bridge
They're right though, that was no troll post. Could do with something more useful, yes, but not that.
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Wikis
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Posted - 2010.03.01 18:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: el Sabor
Originally by: Wikis
Originally by: Aineko Macx
Originally by: Wikis For example give 10% to recharge rate at 5 or increase point of peak recharge rate to 40-45% at 5
No. Blatant and unneeded buff to shields.
go back under your bridge
They're right though, that was no troll post. Could do with something more useful, yes, but not that.
you too go back under your bridge
i never asserted that this is exactly what should be done, if trolls would ve actually read the posts they are trolling (which never happens unfortenantly), then you would ve read part of it which says FOR EXAMPLE
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.01 18:14:00 -
[7]
tactical shield manipulation is fine as is. the extra resists for passive hardeners or without cap are actually useful.
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Wikis
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Posted - 2010.03.01 18:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: darius mclever tactical shield manipulation is fine as is. the extra resists for passive hardeners or without cap are actually useful.
omg
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.01 19:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: darius mclever tactical shield manipulation is fine as is. the extra resists for passive hardeners or without cap are actually useful.
derp ;)
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.01 19:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: darius mclever tactical shield manipulation is fine as is. the extra resists for passive hardeners or without cap are actually useful.
derp ;)
should i have written active hardeners without cap?
*continues neuting Sokratesz' wyvern*
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:15:00 -
[11]
Nah you should have looked up the skill if you dont know what it does.
But there are enough other skills that are mainly/only used to unlock stuff, like jury rigging.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 01/03/2010 20:20:17
Originally by: Wikis The idea is to make tactical shield manipulation actually do something usefull. Right now the only application is as prerequisite for modules.
The idea is to read the skill clearly and carefully and understand that its premise is to reduce the amount of damage that pierces shields through to armor when they are at 25%. (other than it being a required skill for Invun. Fields and other)
Not to act like an asshat nooblet who knows nothing of what he speaks.
Oh..I meant to say not supported.
========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Furb Killer Nah you should have looked up the skill if you dont know what it does.
But there are enough other skills that are mainly/only used to unlock stuff, like jury rigging.
i really should have went to bed instead of posting on the forums. but here i am. stay tuned for more postings where i am too tired.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:10:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Aineko Macx on 01/03/2010 21:10:47
Originally by: Wikis i never asserted that this is exactly what should be done, if trolls would ve actually read the posts they are trolling (which never happens unfortenantly), then you would ve read part of it which says FOR EXAMPLE
That's the problem with the proposal, you ask for change but leave the actual solution completely open. How can we support that? Tempted to call OP a troll...
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:30:00 -
[15]
TSM is the only skill in the game that actively harms you as you train it higher. It's absurd, and needs changing.
That said, I have no really good idea what ought to be done with it. The only things that come to mind that don't step on the toes of existing skills or have silly power levels are either to reduce the cap needs of shield hardeners(say 10%/level, and up their base need 25% or so) or maybe some kind of fiddling with the shape of the shield recharge curve. I think the first of those is decent, and the second is likely to be a terrible idea.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.01 21:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto TSM is the only skill in the game that actively harms you as you train it higher. It's absurd, and needs changing.
That said, I have no really good idea what ought to be done with it. The only things that come to mind that don't step on the toes of existing skills or have silly power levels are either to reduce the cap needs of shield hardeners(say 10%/level, and up their base need 25% or so) or maybe some kind of fiddling with the shape of the shield recharge curve. I think the first of those is decent, and the second is likely to be a terrible idea.
why does it harm you?
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:13:00 -
[17]
i agree with making the skill usefulll. Maybe we could increase the width of the max recharge point of shield by a bit with each level. meaning peak recharge rate will be achieved in a grater range of values for shield percentage. Either way, it should be come useful. Now it can only have minor aesthetic value to armor tankers. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.StevieSG |
Yaay
UK Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto TSM is the only skill in the game that actively harms you as you train it higher. It's absurd, and needs changing.
That said, I have no really good idea what ought to be done with it. The only things that come to mind that don't step on the toes of existing skills or have silly power levels are either to reduce the cap needs of shield hardeners(say 10%/level, and up their base need 25% or so) or maybe some kind of fiddling with the shape of the shield recharge curve. I think the first of those is decent, and the second is likely to be a terrible idea.
why does it harm you?
I believe what they're getting at is that because damage can pierce the shields, it removes damage from the shields and puts it on the armor, thus lowering the actual damage the shield takes, keeping it's level higher for better recharge.
But, From what I can remember, shields only get pierced below 25%, so that argument is kinda dumb as the amount of difference is so marginal.
I would say that a good change to this would be to reduce the capacitor needs for shield hardeners and Invuls as they tend to use quite a lot of cap, and remove the shield piercing effect all together from the skill. Invul's are like 3.3 cap/s for t2 and I think regular hardeners are like 2-2.5 off the top of my head.
Or another option instead would be to reduce CPU for shield hardening mods which I think most people would agree is a needed change, especially for capital ships.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.03.01 22:53:00 -
[19]
The myth that TSM hurts shield tankers is laughable. It has been debunked over and over again.
First, if your tank is 25%< then your tank is broken (Passively speaking, actively possible).
Second, a shield tanker that lets damage bleed into his shields will die faster then a tanker that doesn't. TSM actually helps a shield tanker by stopping attacks from getting to the armor, if a shield tanker is taking armor damage, even if his shields can cope with the damage at, lets say, the 15% mark, eventually he will die. Since he is taking armor damage.
In short. TSM is actually good and you can go look up the super detailed posts that make mine look like a kid's understanding as to why you're wrong.
/notsupported.
Btw your suggestion would make Passive tanking overpowered and nobody would active tank anymore.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 00:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto TSM is the only skill in the game that actively harms you as you train it higher. It's absurd, and needs changing.
That said, I have no really good idea what ought to be done with it. The only things that come to mind that don't step on the toes of existing skills or have silly power levels are either to reduce the cap needs of shield hardeners(say 10%/level, and up their base need 25% or so) or maybe some kind of fiddling with the shape of the shield recharge curve. I think the first of those is decent, and the second is likely to be a terrible idea.
why does it harm you?
Your actually falling for this tripe Hersch? O.o;;;
Surely you jest.
I remember my Maelstrom's Tank IMPROVING as I trained up TSM... TSM helps... I don't get where peopel are getting the idea it hurts.
And who the hell gives a crap at 25% shields... if your shield tanking its a waste of time to fret as your likely dead anyway.
Armor tankers? Whoop ti doo... your an armor tanker..who cares about shields?! ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
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Hooded Hauler
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Posted - 2010.03.02 00:41:00 -
[21]
Please, continue to argue that taking armour/structure damage improves your tanking ability. In fact, I recommend that all you shield tankers leave it at level 1
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.02 00:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hooded Hauler Please, continue to argue that taking armour/structure damage improves your tanking ability. In fact, I recommend that all you shield tankers leave it at level 1
you mean 4. ;) we love our invul II :p
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 01:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Hooded Hauler Please, continue to argue that taking armour/structure damage improves your tanking ability. In fact, I recommend that all you shield tankers leave it at level 1
you mean 4. ;) we love our invul II :p
5 even! 8O) ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.02 01:06:00 -
[24]
after warhead upgrades 5 is done.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.02 07:48:00 -
[25]
Well it sounds plausible that if instead of your shields taking damage, your armour does, in that way not lowering your shield and keeping your recharge up.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.02 17:51:00 -
[26]
Change it to CPU reduction for shield modules, even if only for hardeners or boosters/boost amps Furthermore, you're already reading my sig |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.02 18:05:00 -
[27]
Scimis rep my HAC's shield even at 15%, no reason to require for it to add armor rep or hull rep to keep me alive.
Not supported. ------------
+15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG |
titains
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Posted - 2010.03.02 20:47:00 -
[28]
Right now the only useful application of this skill is a prerequisite for shield hardeners. The skill's bonus is pointless because by the time your shields are under 25% your tank is broken. (active tanks could make it) I like the idea of it increasing the max recharge window.
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Clumsy Pilot
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Posted - 2010.03.02 21:02:00 -
[29]
Quote: And who the hell gives a crap at 25% shields... if your shield tanking its a waste of time to fret as your likely dead anyway.
that is exactly the point, it does not make any difference. Wether the skill hurts your ship or actually improve it, does not matter, difference is probably so minisque it is not noticeable, which is not right as it should be making a difference, so let's make it usefull. the fact is armor tanker does not give a crap about shields, and for shield tanker, if you are below 20% shield you're are probably already dead. It woun't make more then half a percent difference.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 21:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Clumsy Pilot
Quote: And who the hell gives a crap at 25% shields... if your shield tanking its a waste of time to fret as your likely dead anyway.
that is exactly the point, it does not make any difference. Wether the skill hurts your ship or actually improve it, does not matter, difference is probably so minisque it is not noticeable, which is not right as it should be making a difference, so let's make it usefull. the fact is armor tanker does not give a crap about shields, and for shield tanker, if you are below 20% shield you're are probably already dead. It woun't make more then half a percent difference.
Re-read what the skill book says...
You people are making me shake my head... is this really our generation? People who make assumptions and conclude before thinking things through?
Yes... it might be a bit weak for a skill that doesn't achieve much... guess what... there are tons that do that.
But its not useless... that's for sure.
I'm done with this farce of a thread... oey... do what you will... buff it.. but don't bloody nerf it. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
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