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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.03.04 00:28:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Meeko Atari It Just makes sense that there should be no faster ship than ones designed for speed.
Most interceptors cannot fit much in the way of a tank, so allow them to really speed tank. I can think of one ship ( currently fastest in the game ) that will speed tank quite nice but can also fit a nice buffer.
What I would like to see is a "fragile" fast ship ( not pre-nano nerf fast )
But approaching speeds equal to and a little above the fastest frig currently in game, And bring some excitement back to flying frigs!!
I'm giving this post a 6/10, since it's a very obvious stealth "NERF DRAMALIEL!111one" post. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 10:29:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida all other specifically fit ships will generally merely drive it off.
and that's a bad thing because....? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 11:42:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida all other specifically fit ships will generally merely drive it off.
and that's a bad thing because....?
...it will still get away or simply wont engage such a threat.
I say it again: and that's a bad thing because....? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 13:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/03/2010 13:05:14
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Grimpak and that's a bad thing because....?
...it will still get away or simply wont engage such a threat.
I say it again: and that's a bad thing because....?
Because everything needs a hard counter.
so you bring ship Y that will make ship X sitting pretty at range doing nothing but trying to kill you with his stare.
tbh, people should get out of that mould of "ship to be countered must be killed!!11one", when for defence gangs all that they need is preventing it for doing jack ****.
oh and don't come with the "he might not kill today but will kill tomorrow!!11one".
what if you do the same thing tomorrow? and the day after? and the following day? He'll have just an expensive way of sitting pretty and run away without doing damage all the time.
you scared his ship away, he didn't get a kill, you achieved the objective. killing the ship is just a bonus. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 15:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/03/2010 15:35:51
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Grimpak so you bring ship Y that will make ship X sitting pretty at range doing nothing but trying to kill you with his stare.
Not good enough, and doesn't fulfil the requirement: everything needs a hard counter.
If it can kill all X:s and avoid all non-X:s, the only remotely balanced thing is to make sure X = "nothing", and even that is a stretch. Anything else, and it is inherently flawed and needs to be fixed.
does it really need a hard counter?
as far as I'm aware of, it's what CCP wanted, pirate faction ships being superior to T2.
if any, it's pretty much every other pirate faction frigate that needs one more nudge
also, the problem is how "thin" the line between overpowered and useless is, specially on the faction frigates.
if you balanced the dramiel to have similar performance equal to any combat interceptor out there, why would you get a dramiel in the first place and not any of the combat interceptors that cost less and have more availability? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 16:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 04/03/2010 15:57:05
Originally by: Grimpak does it really need a hard counter?
Yes. Everything does.
It should be noted, though, that I'm talking about the general principle ū not the Dramiel as such (even though it seems to be the OMGZNERF!!-of-the-month target).
Quote: as far as I'm aware of, it's what CCP wanted, pirate faction ships being superior to T2.
Yes, but there's a difference between "being superior" and "completely replacing" ū by the looks of it, the problem with the Dramiel is that it does the latter. It all comes back to the question of giving the various ships proper roles (something that CCP is notoriously bad at doing). As long as you figure out the role, the act of balancing can become very very easyą
So the question here is: is the Dramiel supposed to fill the role of a "+1 Interceptor" or as something else? If it's supposed to be the interceptor role, why does it have the combat capacity everyone claims it has? If it's something else, why does it have interceptor-like capabilities? Stick it in a role and make sure it's better than T2 at thatą and then it serves a purpose, even if it's crap at something else.
That's where things have gone wrong in many of the buffs we've seen: the basic idea of T2 is (supposed to be) that they're more specialised, so a better-than-T2 ship is probably best balanced by being even more specialisedą but that requires a well-defined role to specialise the ship in. This lets the T2 ship be better outside the specialisation of the faction ship, and thus still let it have a place in the game, whereas the faction ship is the very apex of the role ū nothing can beat it at its game ū giving it a place in the game as well.
then the fastest way to do it really seems to trash all faction ships.
I mean, considering CCP's attempt (and failing) at getting more roles for ships to cover, in addition to their sledgehammer approach to nerfs, the only way I can see faction frigates to go is the way of the dodo, since they will either stay overpowered, or just be expensive and glorified pixels for you to flaunt on the undocking point of the starter stations ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 16:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Grimpak then the fastest way to do it really seems to trash all faction ships.
Nah, the fastest and best way is to nerf dramiel.
nerfing the dram, by CCP's standarts, means transforming it into an expensive T1 ship.
fastest way, but not the best.
the best ways are either boost the other faction frigates to the level of the dram, or get rid of them alltogether. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2010.03.04 20:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Grimpak ...
Even if dram were only 'as fast' as most inties, it will still be much better than them. 'Just because' of mse buffer, neut, dualprop, acs and drones.
you really think CCP would just nerf the dram's speed? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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