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lizzy54
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Posted - 2010.03.04 13:21:00 -
[1]
What benefits does an industrial corp have for its members? As far as I can see industry is a solo profession. Everything you can do solo will give you more profit than stuff done in group. The only exception I to this is possibly invention and captial ship production at a pos. As it is very hard to maintain these on your own.
Are there other activities in highsec that are worthwhile to do in group?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 13:44:00 -
[2]
By solo, do you mean with an army of alts?
Working as a team/corp generally means dividing up the labor. This means less load for each individual and in a lot of cases, less skill training for each person. Also, running things like T2 chains from moon mining to final production takes a lot of work. Mining is also better if you have haulers and boosters in addition to your miners.
Also the two things you cite as being more group stuff, I would say are more often solo jobs. Lots of people have personal POSs in high sec they use for invention and most of the capital ship producers I know work solo.
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-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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lizzy54
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Posted - 2010.03.04 14:05:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: XXSketchxx
By solo, do you mean with an army of alts?
...
Can you explain how you divide the work and reward each player for his/her part?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 14:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: lizzy54
Originally by: XXSketchxx
By solo, do you mean with an army of alts?
...
Can you explain how you divide the work and reward each player for his/her part?
Are you asking how I personally do it? Because I don't  .
I have done the army of alts industrial operations, but I know a few corps that do full T2 production chains; some people manage the invention, some people manage the reactions, some people do the actual production. The idea behind this is that you are splitting up the workload; a lot of people get burnt out after too much and realizing that they have created a second job for themselves.
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-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Ministers Of Destruction.
Green Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.04 15:29:00 -
[5]
It's an MMO
It's more fun with other people
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Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.03.04 16:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: lizzy54
Are there other activities in highsec that are worthwhile to do in group?
My miner can fill the cargo hold of his hulk in 6 mins. He can fill a giant secure container in 2.5 min. He can fill a jet can in about 17 min. It's nice to have someone to haul. If that hauler is in a Orca throwing bonuses, even better.
When I had my small POS up with 2 labs, I had 9 research jobs I could run but 6ME, 6PE and a bunch of copy slots. I actually had the CPU to anchor a 3rd lab. Not to mention my inability to log in ever 3-4 hours to keep the slots full. It would have been nice to have 2 chars to keep those labs fully running... or 3 so that we could have jobs always in the backlog. Make the POS's slots the bottleneck instead of the character's ability to run jobs.
The market skills are a different set of attributes from industrial skills. Noce to have one character that can max build while another is able to do all the market manipulation stuff. If you're a builder, a LOT more of your time will be spent modifying orders than actually kicking off build orders.
A character able to fly a fraighter... or better, jump fraighter... to move stuff around while another is building and another is doing the market orders... super nice!
How do you divide profits? Contracts.
The miners bet paid out of the corp wallet at below market price, but they didn't have to do their own hauling or selling.
The hauler contracts the ores/minerals to the corp at an agreed upon price for his hauling services.
The builders get the minerals from the corp at above market price, but they didn't have to deal with buying or moving the minerals themselves.
The builders contract the goods back to teh corp at agreed upon below market price, but the builders don't have to worry about doing the market sell order dance....
The sellers sell on behalf of the corp for an agreed upon cut.
The beauty is that the corp becomes a miny market. If too many miners just do it on their own and sell the minerals themselves, then the corp needs to increase the cut it is giving the miners. If no one wants to haul, then increase the cut paid to the haulers. If nothing is getting built, increase the price that the corp is buying stuff from them. If no one wants to sell stuff, then increase the cut they are getting.
Then, of course, there is always the other corp assets. Access to corp blueprints. Access to corp POS lab slots. If someone isn't doing their share for the corp, you can just cut off access to the benifits.
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Krikx
Forgotten Gods
Fear Th3 Vampires
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Posted - 2010.03.04 18:16:00 -
[7]
If you want to mine in 0.0 in a system with lvl 5 Industrial index you need an army of miners just to get the index up. Then you can have a number of juicy hidden belts to mine that you would never have access to solo. Plus the added benifit of a bonusing Orca. The hidden belts add protection giving you more time to get everyone out if an enemy fleet arrives.
Being part of a corp with a PvP wing you know have a Friendly fleet to chase the enemy out of the system so you can get back to mining sooner. Now your corp can use the mins to help build more PvP ships that can be used for your alliance Mercenary wing, which can mean even more money for you from the contracts.... It can keep going.
There is deffinately HUGE advantages to corps of all types. Eve has a bigger and better sand box then any other game out there right now. It's not like WoW where the sandbox just has sand and 1 Tonka truck. This sandbox has one of those sweet wooden castles that lets you run all over doing tons of fun stuff. It also has the sweet added bonus of little out of the way corners that you can kick the crap out of the other kids and their moms will never see.
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KardelSharpeye
Gallente
Antares Expeditions
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Posted - 2010.03.04 18:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
It's an MMO
It's more fun with other people
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.04 19:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: lizzy54
What benefits does an industrial corp have for its members? As far as I can see industry is a solo profession. Everything you can do solo will give you more profit than stuff done in group. The only exception I to this is possibly invention and captial ship production at a pos. As it is very hard to maintain these on your own.
Are there other activities in highsec that are worthwhile to do in group?
You need a POS to research and copy blueprints if you dont want to wait in line. even the lowsec labs are full. You need people to defend if it gets attacked. You need a way to get the billions of dollars you need to mass produce. This will come from mining or missioning most likeley. So that research slot in the lab will benefit you. that open manufacturing slot will help you. Having access to free blueprints (copies) will help you. Having someone with better refining will help you.
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We lost around 1.5b worth of tower, fuel and modules total.
(Pause for amusement)
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:01:00 -
[10]
There are a great many different blueprints in the game. Eventually one person could accumulate a BPO of everything (well, everything T1, anyway). But even if you did, the vast majority of them would sit idle the entire time, because one character can only run so many research and manufacturing jobs.
With an industrial corporation, many players can pool their resources and prevent overlap of effort. Instead of ten guys each having a Raven blueprint and taking the time to research it to perfect, the ten guys buy one BPO and own it in common, running copies when they need to actually manufacture something, at a savings of... well, an awful lot of isk.
Others have already brought up the advantages for miners. Completely aside from the efficiency you can get through focusing on the proper skills, six miners and a hauler are more efficient than seven miners (and six miners and an Orca are WAY more efficient than seven miners). More efficiency means more minerals, more isk for everyone.
Having multiple people to mind the store when it comes to babysitting reactions and keeping research POS labs humming along nicely means that you can step away from the game for a little while when real life drops in. If you're a solo industrialist and you have to take a couple sick days, you don't make a whole lot of isk while you're gone. If you're in a corp with other industrialists, they can pitch in for you.
There's strength in numbers. Solo industrialists are always at risk when hauling. If you're in a corp, you can get cyno support, you can convoy, you can even get some escorts. You've got people to help out if someone parks a few battleships outside your POS and start hammering at the shields.
Is industry as dependent on numbers as PVP? Not quite; there's no equivalent of the "blob", and what twenty miners can do in two hours, ten can do in four hours. But those twenty in two hours or ten in four hours can get a lot more done than one in forty hours, or more than forty guys alone for an hour each.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:44:00 -
[11]
Ignoring the social aspects:
If you're willing to do the work, and invest the isk, there's no high-sec industry that you can't accomplish solo that you could in a group. Group industrial efforts are typically based around the social aspect, or splitting the time/isk over several players who don't have the time/isk to invest the work to manage it solo.
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nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:46:00 -
[12]
In high sec there's really no advantage unless you're a miner. And even then all you realy need is a second account if you're a miner. Many people have 2. All the other stuff can be done much easier solo.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.03.05 00:10:00 -
[13]
Just chiming in to echo previous sentiments about running a POS and keeping it safe being more than a solo activity. More people in corp means more gunners, for starters.
You can reward people for helping by putting up contracts or buy orders for POS supplies. You can also reward people for helping by putting up contracts or sell orders for POS outputs. At the very least, you can have an industrial alliance where one corp runs the research POS and everyone else gets to run BP research through that POS using remote research skills.
My argument here is that running a POS more or less requires a corporation, and the corporation becomes more useful if you have people playing in different timezones.
For mining corps, the regular ops with orca boost has been discussed.
For manufacturing corps, a bunch of small manufacturers can group together and arrange to have a batch of goods freighted into a market hub. They can then arrange to have raw materials shipped directly to their manufacturing location rather than relying on buy orders to attract those raw materials. The manufacturers can take it in turns to do the hauling runs. This way noone is stuck flying a city block around the galaxy.
The economies of scale mean that a bunch of manufacturers working together can make more efficient use of infrastructure.
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Slade Hoo
Amarr
Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2010.03.05 00:19:00 -
[14]
industry corp are like crafting guilds in wow.
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Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Lord Ka'Tesh
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.05 00:52:00 -
[15]
Speaking from personal experience as I have my own industrial corp, this is an alt for secure purposes lol, i have an orca and 3 hulk pilots of my own but also I have several ppl in my corp who fly hulks, covetors and retrievers. I do all of the manufacturing all T1 ships, training for T2, T3 and Capitsl ships and also have several research toons of my own. The benefits of having an industrial corp is this in my eyes:
1)they help you mine all the high sec minerals your going to need (ie through corp mining ops or as I do I buy ore in bulk from my members at a 5% discount in exchange I sell them ships at a deep discount usually 40-60% off all are Jita prices)
2)you are going it alone as you have people in your corp that you have recruited and can fly with whether you are doing corp mining ops or doing corp missioning ops to raise corp standings to be able to anchor a high sec research pos
3)I also buy salvage and other items needed for other manufacturing and trying to get it yourself or buying all that you is not cost effective
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The object of war is not to die for your Corporation but to make the other bastard die for his. |
Domestic Abuse
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Posted - 2010.03.05 01:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Krikx
Eve has a bigger and better sand box then any other game out there right now. This sandbox has one of those sweet wooden castles that lets you run all over doing tons of fun stuff. It also has the sweet added bonus of little out of the way corners that you can kick the crap out of the other kids and their moms will never see.
this
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Tribal Trader
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Posted - 2010.03.05 02:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: nether void
In high sec there's really no advantage unless you're a miner. And even then all you realy need is a second account if you're a miner. Many people have 2. All the other stuff can be done much easier solo.
not exactly true. I am able to invent much faster than i build. So corpmates will copy bpos for me which i then go on to invent and contract back to the corp. I profit from this by not having to buy minerals or manage the pos. Ideally we would have 2 members copying 1 member inventing then 2-3 members manufacturing and selling in a t2 production chain then split the proceeds. Much more than any 1 person can do.
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ingenting
20th Legion
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.03.05 02:54:00 -
[18]
op is a troll, **** off
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lizzy54
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Posted - 2010.03.05 07:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ingenting
op is a troll, **** off
Not at all. I am rather new to industry and I had some questions. It seems that running an industrial corp is a lot more work than I originally thought and I am not sure if it is something I want to do. (As there seems to be a lot of bookkeeping involved.)
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2010.03.05 07:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: lizzy54
Originally by: ingenting
op is a troll, **** off
Not at all. I am rather new to industry and I had some questions. It seems that running an industrial corp is a lot more work than I originally thought and I am not sure if it is something I want to do. (As there seems to be a lot of bookkeeping involved.)
Definitely so - often, running a corp is best left to those who want to make running a corp their primary job in Eve. Being new to industry, you may consider joining a corp and working your way up to a leadership position - all the fun of being in charge, less of the paperwork ;)
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