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Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 07:43:00 - [1] I think I'll just focus on the Drake BPO, but want to throw this out there... After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) with a Production Efficiency 5 char on a ML 60 Drake BPO, I have found that it would cost 25,242,277 ISK to build a Drake. SO... I look on the local Jita market and see drakes selling for 26,200,000, in quantities of 15-90. Now, buying the BPO costs 342 million. I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Besides the fact that you can't invent on a Drake BPO, the only other option I see are selling BPCs. I have access to a POS to research the BPO, but this still seems futile. How the hell are ppl selling them for so low? And is there any hope for me and my Drake BPO? Are miners and industrialists really just this stupid that they don't care to make a profit? Is it just a case of the "I mined it, so the mins were free" mentality? Any suggestions on how to make more isk on a Drake BPO? Thanks all.
Dalden V Blue Lounge Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2010.03.08 07:54:00 - [2] Also consider the insurance value of a Drake. After paying for the insurance and blowing up a Drake, you can get 26,600,000.00 for it. Many people are building hundreds of ships for just below insurance value, then blowing them up with insurance fraud and also any salvage you get from those ships. Some other people know that insurance fraud is happening, so sell ships on the market for just below that value hoping that others will buy them up in bulk to destroy them, thus saving them the time and effort and still making a bit of profit.
Necesity Order of Paradox	Posted - 2010.03.08 07:58:00 - [3] remember those are jita prices, some regions with lots of pvp far from jita may have people paying much more for the higher tier battlecruisers since they are used alot in lowsec pvp
Mahasti	Posted - 2010.03.08 07:58:00 - [4] Edited by: Mahasti on 08/03/2010 07:58:12 Honestly, at this point, I'm leaning towards just researching the damn thing to 30ML or more and then trying to resell it. I have no intention of mining the ores to build a ton of Drakes if the best I can do is make a million isk off each one. I realize Jita prices are low, but even other markets I've checked, Drake prices are about the same. I will probably make a bunch of copies of it after I research it and try to sell those as well. It just really burns me up to see that people are so willing to not make squat in profit off of what they build. Edit... oops posted with my alt there :)
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 08:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 08:14:14 Originally by: Dalden V Also consider the insurance value of a Drake. After paying for the insurance and blowing up a Drake, you can get 26,600,000.00 for it. Many people are building hundreds of ships for just below insurance value, then blowing them up with insurance fraud and also any salvage you get from those ships. Some other people know that insurance fraud is happening, so sell ships on the market for just below that value hoping that others will buy them up in bulk to destroy them, thus saving them the time and effort and still making a bit of profit. Ahh. So possibly if I hang on to the BPO for awhile, and insurance fraud gets nerfed, I may be able to profit a little more from it. How much salvage does one get from a Drake I wonder? I may just go ahead and build a bunch and just blow them up. That's so pathetic though.
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.03.08 09:13:00 - [6] I don't see how insurance fraud would reduce margins. I suspect you're real problem is you are competing against people who value their time and mined minerals very low (or free). If you try insurance fraud the most you can self destruct is about 12 per hour or about twice that with the help of Concord. Is the insurance fraud margin on a Drake x 12/24 more or less than you could generate in the same time doing something else? Could you be producing something more profitable with that manufacturing slot? Also take into account the time taken to buy/haul your mins and the process of blowing the ships up is very tedious. DonÆt expect too much extra ISK form salvaging Drakes especially if you destroy them outside a station where others will beat you to the salvage.
Lord Arbalest Amarr Zero Profits	Posted - 2010.03.08 09:31:00 - [7] Do take into account a Drake BPO is never going to make 'amazing' profits for you. What they do offer is a constant and reliable steady earner and seller. If you are really against selling in Jita look to offload or build near another hub or mission hub - drakes are one of the most used ships in EVE and are bought everywhere - you can get away with charging a slight premium on Jita prices if you sell elsewhere. Don't forget your BPO is an asset to, anything you produce with it is extra profit because of the ability to sell off your BPO, at least at a NPC value.
Cyaxares II Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.08 09:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Marius Victor Ahh. So possibly if I hang on to the BPO for awhile, and insurance fraud gets nerfed, I may be able to profit a little more from it. If you had read the CSM minutes, you would know that insurance fraud getting a nerf is very unlikely during the near future (aka in the summer expansion).
coeira	Posted - 2010.03.08 10:34:00 - [9] yeah insurance really can't get nerfed because its the only thing propping up the mineral market at the moment. the underlying issue is the fact of overproduction of items. which isn't an issue at all of producers undervaluing there time or goods the market gets to dictate prices and right now just about every tech 1 item is at there mineral cost. so theres to much production in that area right now.
LarcatOfRens	Posted - 2010.03.08 11:36:00 - [10] How much profit do you want to make selling drakes? Gimme a number and I'll buy all the drakes for sale below it in Jita and you can give me a cuddle cuddle afterwards.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.08 12:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) Is that mineral BUY order price or mineral SELL order price ? Quote: I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Oh, boo-hoo, poor you, it will be a bit under 40 days of non-stop production before you can break even, whatever will you do ? What, you wanted to break even in one afternoon ? Sheesh... _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.03.08 13:36:00 - [12] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 08/03/2010 13:36:45 Your problem is you're thinking about competing on the Jita market, why don't you move further away from Jita? Closer to null space? Or mission hubs? Closed until further notice
Io Callisto	Posted - 2010.03.08 13:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Marius Victor Any suggestions on how to make more isk on a Drake BPO? Thanks all. I refer you back to "Basics 101", get your mins cheaper elsewhere... figure it out from there.
Cecilia Syal Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.03.08 13:53:00 - [14] You might earn more making 5 Run bpc's for other builders, but you can actually earn the same making ME0/PE0 max run copy's for invention people. so not much benefit to buying researched bpo, I think the best margins on ships are cruisers/frigates for production, and moving them around in different area's around mission hubs and even to low sec. they will sell in low sec only as long as you throw up on markets the modules/ammo they might need for pvp. also where are you getting minerals/ores from? try to setup buy orders cheaply from around mission hubs and mining area's in different regions, moving in freighter to keep production going. then its a good way to turn minerals into "blocks" of isk to sell on markets for few mil more than just selling minerals to buy orders. your margins might move from 800k to 4mil or so per ship, also past me21 the savings are so small.. only really good that high if you plan to sell bpc to builders/small corps
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:26:00 - [15] Sell the BPO, buy another Battle-cruiser BPO that you can invent (Ferox, Prophecy, Brutix, Cyclone) rattle off 20, 1 run BPCs for invention, the rest of the time just produce the BC.. If the margins are about 750K pretty much any BC has that margin, why focus on a BPO that can only do "one" thing. Remember each of the mentioned BC BPOs can produce three ships with time and resources. The ship itself, a Field Command ship and a Fleet Command ship. Three ships for the price of one BPO, also BPC sell, there is DEMAND for those BPCs on contract for either building or inventing. Sounds like a deal all round if you ask me. Amarr for Life
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:28:00 - [16] Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 14:28:30 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) Is that mineral BUY order price or mineral SELL order price ? Quote: I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Oh, boo-hoo, poor you, it will be a bit under 40 days of non-stop production before you can break even, whatever will you do ? What, you wanted to break even in one afternoon ? Sheesh... Sheesh. Yeah there a 1000 different way to make profit in way less time than that. As far as the mins go, yes I was referring to Sell Order prices. so, yes, theoretically I could make more if I got the mins cheaper. I understand that. As far as it being "40 Days", that's a great figure and all, but If I actually mined the ore myself, I think it would take longer than 40 days. Basically the whole reason for this post was to question the whole idea of making these in the first place, when I can just plop down a station trader in various systems besides Jita and make hundreds of millions a week.
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: SencneS Sell the BPO, buy another Battle-cruiser BPO that you can invent (Ferox, Prophecy, Brutix, Cyclone) rattle off 20, 1 run BPCs for invention, the rest of the time just produce the BC.. If the margins are about 750K pretty much any BC has that margin, why focus on a BPO that can only do "one" thing. Remember each of the mentioned BC BPOs can produce three ships with time and resources. The ship itself, a Field Command ship and a Fleet Command ship. Three ships for the price of one BPO, also BPC sell, there is DEMAND for those BPCs on contract for either building or inventing. Sounds like a deal all round if you ask me. Very sound advice, and I think I am thinking on these same terms. Thank you for the re-assurance. As you can't even invent on a Drake or Hurricane BPO, I really don't see the use or need for the BPCs for them. I will probably just research the BPO and resell it at a small mark up.
HarveyBirdman Esquire	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Marius Victor Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 14:28:30 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) Is that mineral BUY order price or mineral SELL order price ? Quote: I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Oh, boo-hoo, poor you, it will be a bit under 40 days of non-stop production before you can break even, whatever will you do ? What, you wanted to break even in one afternoon ? Sheesh... Sheesh. Yeah there a 1000 different way to make profit in way less time than that. As far as the mins go, yes I was referring to Sell Order prices. so, yes, theoretically I could make more if I got the mins cheaper. I understand that. As far as it being "40 Days", that's a great figure and all, but If I actually mined the ore myself, I think it would take longer than 40 days. Basically the whole reason for this post was to question the whole idea of making these in the first place, when I can just plop down a station trader in various systems besides Jita and make hundreds of millions a week. There's no reason you can't do both at the same time. As to complaining about the profitability, guess you should have done a wee bit more research before making the purchase. This isn't magic super science here, you'd have saved yourself a few hundred mil and some time if you had spent a few minutes with a calculator _before_ the BPO impulse purchase. Harvey Birdman, Attorney at MATHS!
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:45:00 - [19] Originally by: HarveyBirdman Esquire Originally by: Marius Victor Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 14:28:30 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) Is that mineral BUY order price or mineral SELL order price ? Quote: I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Oh, boo-hoo, poor you, it will be a bit under 40 days of non-stop production before you can break even, whatever will you do ? What, you wanted to break even in one afternoon ? Sheesh... Sheesh. Yeah there a 1000 different way to make profit in way less time than that. As far as the mins go, yes I was referring to Sell Order prices. so, yes, theoretically I could make more if I got the mins cheaper. I understand that. As far as it being "40 Days", that's a great figure and all, but If I actually mined the ore myself, I think it would take longer than 40 days. Basically the whole reason for this post was to question the whole idea of making these in the first place, when I can just plop down a station trader in various systems besides Jita and make hundreds of millions a week. There's no reason you can't do both at the same time. As to complaining about the profitability, guess you should have done a wee bit more research before making the purchase. This isn't magic super science here, you'd have saved yourself a few hundred mil and some time if you had spent a few minutes with a calculator _before_ the BPO impulse purchase. Harvey Birdman, Attorney at MATHS! Harsh as it is, yes, you are right. Fortunately, however, I don't think I'll have a problem reselling it at maybe .01 isk below seed value if I have to. I''m going to go ahead and research it though and take my chances with reselling it at a small mark up.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.08 14:52:00 - [20] Quote: As you can't even invent on a Drake or Hurricane BPO, I really don't see the use or need for the BPCs for them. There are. All it takes, is to know what you want to do in advance and not cluelessy PLOP down like a pidgeon poop. It's really and always the same: "I bought this freighter, now how do I make money with it" dumb dilemma all over again. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 15:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: As you can't even invent on a Drake or Hurricane BPO, I really don't see the use or need for the BPCs for them. There are. All it takes, is to know what you want to do in advance and not cluelessy PLOP down like a pidgeon poop. It's really and always the same: "I bought this freighter, now how do I make money with it" dumb dilemma all over again. Well, as I am already filthy rich from other endeavors, I just figured manufacturing of one of the most used ships in Eve would be a good plan and a nice diversion. Forgive me for being such a stupid pile of pigeon ****. I've seen Drake BPC's sold anywhere from 400k to 6 million on contract but wonder how fast these move as you would be kind of stupid to pay anything over 1 million for one even at ML 60 if you could buy the effing Drake in Jita for the same price. Please forgive me for being so dumb?
Kidain Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2010.03.08 15:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Marius Victor Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: As you can't even invent on a Drake or Hurricane BPO, I really don't see the use or need for the BPCs for them. There are. All it takes, is to know what you want to do in advance and not cluelessy PLOP down like a pidgeon poop. It's really and always the same: "I bought this freighter, now how do I make money with it" dumb dilemma all over again. Well, as I am already filthy rich from other endeavors, I just figured manufacturing of one of the most used ships in Eve would be a good plan and a nice diversion. Forgive me for being such a stupid pile of pigeon ****. I've seen Drake BPC's sold anywhere from 400k to 6 million on contract but wonder how fast these move as you would be kind of stupid to pay anything over 1 million for one even at ML 60 if you could buy the effing Drake in Jita for the same price. Please forgive me for being so dumb? I wouldn't say dumb as such but thinking that you where going to get the most popular BC BPO and make money of it makes total sense of course... but then it does make that sense to about 10,000 other players as well and you end up with far toom many Drakes at crap prices. ;) Can't win really. The weird thing is I sat down the other day and thought I would try exactly the same thing only to realise it wasn't worth it. -------------------------------------- Don't Confuse me with facts my minds already made up.
Etara Silverblade	Posted - 2010.03.08 15:40:00 - [23] You're looking at the whole equation wrong because the Drake BPO is always worth something even if it's the NPC price. So you don't have to make back all the isk you spent on the purchase. And you should have done some calculations before investing in the BPO.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.03.08 15:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Kidain I wouldn't say dumb as such but thinking that you where going to get the most popular BC BPO and make money of it makes total sense of course... Just wait for CCP to release the Mallard.
Mahke Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.03.08 15:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Etara Silverblade You're looking at the whole equation wrong because the Drake BPO is always worth something even if it's the NPC price. So you don't have to make back all the isk you spent on the purchase. And you should have done some calculations before investing in the BPO. Not so. Before insurance fraud, a researched rokh BPO was worth less than NPC price, there have been large stretches of time where certain capital-related BPOs were worth less than npc, and those are just two examples right off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others (including some I occasionally trade in but haven't mentioned ). The NPC cost of a BPO is a sunk cost. The value of the BPO once bought is partially based on that cost for psychological reasons, yes, but it's also based on supply-and-demand, and when waaay too many people buy and/or research the same BPOs, that value goes below NPC, sometimes substantially despite months of research. Ironically, tier 2 battlecruiser BPOs historically hold value very well (although the hurricane and harbinger better than domi and myrm).
Lordess Trader	Posted - 2010.03.08 17:24:00 - [26] Edited by: Lordess Trader on 08/03/2010 17:25:46 lol find somewhere better to sell your ships, i know areas that drakes sell for 36-38m each Also why are u looking to pay off the BPO, a bought BPO and researched is worth the same amount, and actually more when u decide to sell it off so it doesnt loose value, so a 360m BPO is still 360m of cash in hand, just not liquid
Aeneidae Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.03.08 17:33:00 - [27] Just to echo some of the opinions here in view of researched BPO's. A researched Drake BPO ME10 PE10 is usually around 400m. This BPO will sell INSTANTLY at NPC price of 340m. To recoup your investment you'd actually have to have a 60m profit from the Drakes that you're building. Sure, the BPO is not cold cash in your wallet, but it is an asset with a minimum value of 340m. (Yes, i know you could argue about the liquidity of the item here, and i know that what people actually mean is getting those 400m back)
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.08 18:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Marius Victor Sheesh. Yeah there a 1000 different way to make profit in way less time than that. Then do the "something else" things instead. Manufacturing is primarily an ISK/day/slot matter, with blueprint cost a secondary factor. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Unity Love Caldari Dissonance Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.03.08 18:29:00 - [29] OP: you know you can....you can.... sell the bpo right after a few months of use
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.03.08 18:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) with a Production Efficiency 5 char on a ML 60 Drake BPO, I have found that it would cost 25,242,277 ISK to build a Drake. SO... I look on the local Jita market and see drakes selling for 26,200,000, in quantities of 15-90. Now, buying the BPO costs 342 million. I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price I didn't read the entire thread too closely but also keep in mind that you're calculating the profit YOU make off building it where you're buying the underlying minerals. So really, the entire economic action is giving profits to both you as well as miners. If you mine yourself, you will obviously be making more than that paltry number per constructed drake. Obviously if you choose not to mine then you're giving away some of the Drake's profits to those who mine for you. Just another way to consider what the real profit of the sale is in comparison to its BPO cost.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.03.08 18:40:00 - [31] Edited by: cosmoray on 08/03/2010 18:43:40 To the OP your looking at the value all wrong. Researched Drake BPO = 400M 1. Makes 7 drakes per day @ 25.2M 2. Insure all ships 3. Fit Target Painter I to first ship = 22,500 ISK 4. Launch, lock sentry gun target paint 5. Get popped, dock in pod 6. make next ship active, undock 7. Security timer still runing get popped 8. Rinse & repeat Five minutes work a day for 7M profit + salavge Total of 210M per month for little work ROI per month = 50% To keep project running you need 400M start up costs and 400M in capital for minerals and insurance. Sound like a pretty good investment to me. note: If you are really anal about costs you could buy a Target Painter I BPO for 1.1M and research it to a perfect ME151 in 2 weeks.
Eleven Toes	Posted - 2010.03.08 19:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor After calculating build costs (Jita mineral prices) Is that mineral BUY order price or mineral SELL order price ? Quote: I'd have to sell 342 Drakes just to break even on the BPO price Oh, boo-hoo, poor you, it will be a bit under 40 days of non-stop production before you can break even, whatever will you do ? What, you wanted to break even in one afternoon ? Sheesh... Wow, let someone make some isk on a speculation then drown when it rains cause they have their snotty nose turned so high in the air...
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.08 20:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Marius Victor Edit: And I really do think the issue comes down to the fact that there are WAY too many people in this game with no sense and just sell items for at or under mineral value just because they think what they mined was somehow "Free". I really believe this is the core issue. As far as it being "40 Days", that's a great figure and all, but If I actually mined the ore myself, I think it would take longer than 40 days. you said you can make ~1m per unit, and are complaining that there is no profit and why would you bother mining for this venture (or for that matter any venture).
Chronos VIII Amarr GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.03.08 21:40:00 - [34] Edited by: Chronos VIII on 08/03/2010 21:40:27 Originally by: Marius Victor Well, as I am already filthy rich from other endeavors... I seriously doubt that judging by the fact that you cant even figure out how to make money with simple t1 manufacturing on your own
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 22:22:00 - [35] Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 22:23:16 Originally by: Chronos VIII Edited by: Chronos VIII on 08/03/2010 21:40:27 Originally by: Marius Victor Well, as I am already filthy rich from other endeavors... I seriously doubt that judging by the fact that you cant even figure out how to make money with simple t1 manufacturing on your own You'd be surprised how much money one can make by buying Phased Muon Sensor Dampeners and the like at 2 million isk then reselling for 7 million all day for a few years. I was just interested in trying something new, but go ahead and pretend you are smarter than me there guy.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.08 22:48:00 - [36] Edited by: Akita T on 08/03/2010 22:52:27 Originally by: Eleven Toes Wow, let someone make some isk on a speculation then drown when it rains cause they have their snotty nose turned so high in the air... Right, because my response would have been any different if I only had 200 mil ISK in my wallet ? 40 days payoff on a battlecruiser BPO, or around 9 mil ISK/slot/day when buying minerals from existing sell orders is actually PRETTY DAMN GOOD. You want to know how many other non-T2 BPO types make that much ISK/slot/day ? You can count'em on your hands for anything even remotely near that BPO cost. Also, want to know how many other non-T2 BPOs in that price range or higher pay off in just 40 days ? You can count them on your hands too ! The OP is kinda' whining about getting one of the more lucrative BPOs out there - he's simply lacking perspective for the whole manufacture business, that's what he is. P.S. Yes, you can make more money trading than manufacturing - but here's the deal... you need 7 buy order and 1 sell order slot (per item) for the ENTIRE T1 manufacturing business. That leaves you with, oh, just about most of your entire trade slots to, you know, TRADE on the side of manufacture ? Manufacture is not done instead of trading, it's alongside trading. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 22:59:00 - [37] Edited by: Marius Victor on 08/03/2010 23:04:31 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 08/03/2010 22:52:27 Originally by: Eleven Toes Wow, let someone make some isk on a speculation then drown when it rains cause they have their snotty nose turned so high in the air... Right, because my response would have been any different if I only had 200 mil ISK in my wallet ? 40 days payoff on a battlecruiser BPO, or around 9 mil ISK/slot/day when buying minerals from existing sell orders is actually PRETTY DAMN GOOD. You want to know how many other non-T2 BPO types make that much ISK/slot/day ? You can count'em on your hands for anything even remotely near that BPO cost. Also, want to know how many other non-T2 BPOs in that price range or higher pay off in just 40 days ? You can count them on your hands too ! The OP is kinda' whining about getting one of the more lucrative BPOs out there - he's simply lacking perspective for the whole manufacture business, that's what he is. P.S. Yes, you can make more money trading than manufacturing - but here's the deal... you need 7 buy order and 1 sell order slot (per item) for the ENTIRE T1 manufacturing business. That leaves you with, oh, just about most of your entire trade slots to, you know, TRADE on the side of manufacture ? Manufacture is not done instead of trading, it's alongside trading. Akita T. Funny and Miserable at the same time. I was WHINING !!!! That's great. Go read my OP again there Mr. Big Ego, Low Self Esteem. I have plenty of perspective, and it is this. People do not equate their "game time" of mining their ores or buying of the ores of any value, therefore when they manufacture Tier 2 T1 BC's such as the Drake and then sell them at a .0003% profit margin, that is totally fine with them. Thus anyone with any brains in their head would be stupid to compete. I know there are places to sell Drakes for more. I get that. As far as "buy ordering" the mins and building the Drakes from that... Why wouldn't I just "Sell Order" the mins right back on the market and skip the whole process of building the Drake?
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2010.03.08 23:15:00 - [38] I'm not sure if this thread is trolling or just really stupid, but after spending the time reading it I feel rather disappointed. From now on this thread is about kittens. They are much more fun.
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.08 23:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Bad Bobby I'm not sure if this thread is trolling or just really stupid, but after spending the time reading it I feel rather disappointed. From now on this thread is about kittens. They are much more fun. I want to buy a Kitten BPO then. I'm sure I could make more ISK selling Kittens than manufacturing Drakes in this "market".
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2010.03.08 23:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Marius Victor I'm sure I could make more ISK selling Kittens than manufacturing Drakes in this "market". Where does this certainty come from? Have you done the maths? Remember to show your workings!
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels	Posted - 2010.03.08 23:33:00 - [41] I don't actually own a kitten of my own. I'm not really a pet person. Someone else really needs to spark up the conversation here otherwise the kitten theme is going to get stale pretty quickly. If that happens we could end up taking about Drakes again, which didn't really entertain anyone the first time round. Come on, Kitten owners of MD, come forth and volunteer a funny anecdote and save this thread from disaster!
Jorin Molinn Caldari Haluter Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2010.03.08 23:42:00 - [42] well ... the whirling mathmaticians have come up with a proof that isk per time is indeed greater for pandas. PANDA 4tw! on a different note 2>1
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2010.03.09 01:52:00 - [43] Originally by: Marius Victor I also have quite a hunch that the Insurance Fraud and Macro Mining have quite a bit to do with it as well, but I will not delve into that. This is why it's a waste of time trying to help 95% of people playing this game. Also, you have to invent pandas as they are T2 racoons. Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.09 01:52:00 - [44] Originally by: Marius Victor Quote: 40 days payoff on a battlecruiser BPO, or around 9 mil ISK/slot/day when buying minerals from existing sell orders is actually PRETTY DAMN GOOD. I have plenty of perspective, and it is this : people do not equate their "game time" of mining their ores or buying of the ores of any value, therefore when they manufacture Tier 2 T1 BC's such as the Drake and then sell them at a .0003% profit margin, that is totally fine with them. Yet you totally missed this part about buying minerals from sell orders, using your listed OP price, and coming up with the ISK/slot/day revenue. Quote: Thus anyone with any brains in their head would be stupid to compete. I would compare it to a Furniture store making fine furniture and then selling it at the price that they paid for the lumber. It wouldn't happen. I know there are places to sell Drakes for more. I get that. No, apparently, you DO NOT. You can reasonably have 10 manufacture slots and 10 Drake BPOs, and you'd be earning 90+ mil ISK/day by just building them with materials you buy with next to no effort. That's 2.7 bil ISK/month for a mostly passive business. It could be MUCH more than that if you did buy minerals with buy orders and sold to places where Drakes are actually more expensive. You can shove out nearly 90 Drakes per day per character with an initial investment of roughly 6 bil ISK (for the blueprints and all the material buffer), and you could be looking at up to 3 or even 5 mil per Drake in actual profit (instead of the measly 1 mil per unit in a hub), or in other words, anywhere between 8 and 13 bil ISK/month profit. Does THAT sound all so awful to you ? Also, remember this ? Originally by: Akita T Manufacture is not done instead of trading, it's alongside trading. Yeah, you kinda' forgot about that too. Quote: As far as "buy ordering" the mins and building the Drakes from that... Why wouldn't I just "Sell Order" the mins right back on the market and skip the whole process of building the Drake? You just said you're ADDING roughly 1 mil of "value" compared to hub mineral sales prices by building the Drake, why would you pass up on that ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.09 02:01:00 - [45] Edited by: Marius Victor on 09/03/2010 02:05:29 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor Quote: 40 days payoff on a battlecruiser BPO, or around 9 mil ISK/slot/day when buying minerals from existing sell orders is actually PRETTY DAMN GOOD. I have plenty of perspective, and it is this : people do not equate their "game time" of mining their ores or buying of the ores of any value, therefore when they manufacture Tier 2 T1 BC's such as the Drake and then sell them at a .0003% profit margin, that is totally fine with them. Yet you totally missed this part about buying minerals from sell orders, using your listed OP price, and coming up with the ISK/slot/day revenue. Quote: Thus anyone with any brains in their head would be stupid to compete. I would compare it to a Furniture store making fine furniture and then selling it at the price that they paid for the lumber. It wouldn't happen. I know there are places to sell Drakes for more. I get that. No, apparently, you DO NOT. You can reasonably have 10 manufacture slots and 10 Drake BPOs, and you'd be earning 90+ mil ISK/day by just building them with materials you buy with next to no effort. That's 2.7 bil ISK/month for a mostly passive business. It could be MUCH more than that if you did buy minerals with buy orders and sold to places where Drakes are actually more expensive. You can shove out nearly 90 Drakes per day per character with an initial investment of roughly 6 bil ISK (for the blueprints and all the material buffer), and you could be looking at up to 3 or even 5 mil per Drake in actual profit (instead of the measly 1 mil per unit in a hub), or in other words, anywhere between 8 and 13 bil ISK/month profit. Does THAT sound all so awful to you ? Also, remember this ? Originally by: Akita T Manufacture is not done instead of trading, it's alongside trading. Yeah, you kinda' forgot about that too. Quote: As far as "buy ordering" the mins and building the Drakes from that... Why wouldn't I just "Sell Order" the mins right back on the market and skip the whole process of building the Drake? You just said you're ADDING roughly 1 mil of "value" compared to hub mineral sales prices by building the Drake, why would you pass up on that ? You seem to think I don't understand you. I totally understand your strategy, trust me. It's just trifling when you can just buy/sell t2 items at a station and make thousands of times more profit with half the effort. If you want a char to build 90 Drakes a day, knock yourself out. I personally would put a gun to my head first trying to make 1 million isk off of a 26 million isk item. No thanks.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.09 02:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Marius Victor I personally would put a gun to my head first trying to make 1 million isk of of a 26 million isk item. No thanks. I wouldn't do it either, but just how much profit do you honestly expect to be able to see from something with minimal entry barriers and next to no effort required ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.09 02:12:00 - [47] Originally by: Marius Victor I would compare it to a Furniture store making fine furniture and then selling it at the price that they paid for the lumber. It wouldn't happen. now if they could buy a robot that made furniture from lumber that they could cover the cost of within 40days of building product. I'm pretty sure they would love to have that robot.
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.09 02:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor I personally would put a gun to my head first trying to make 1 million isk of of a 26 million isk item. No thanks. I wouldn't do it either, but just how much profit do you honestly expect to be able to see from something with minimal entry barriers and next to no effort required ? Point well taken, and I must concede... this was my error in judgement Lesson learned.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.03.09 02:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Marius Victor Edited by: Marius Victor on 09/03/2010 02:19:21 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Marius Victor I personally would put a gun to my head first trying to make 1 million isk of of a 26 million isk item. No thanks. I wouldn't do it either, but just how much profit do you honestly expect to be able to see from something with minimal entry barriers and next to no effort required ? Point well taken, and I must concede... this was my error in judgement I suppose I thought because the BPO's were 342 million isk that it wasn't really "entry level" but yeah, you are right. It still takes no skills. I also thought because I had POS access that researching the BPO would make my manufacturing price go down far enough, but again, obviously not. Lesson learned. I think you totally missed the point of this thread. Kittens are easy to build, they're tech 1. Pandas need to be invented from Racoon BPOS. I mean, goddamn.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.03.09 03:39:00 - [50] Personally I prefer the Maltese market. Or the faction variety, Maltypoos. --------------------------------- Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Mielono Caldari SWARTA	Posted - 2010.03.09 06:21:00 - [51] Edited by: Mielono on 09/03/2010 06:23:02 buy purger rig bpo's build those as well, fit them to drake sell on contracts to people who do not have the skills yet for a profit... and well... profit Before I had the skills to fit them myself I would buy them off contracts pre rigged at a higher price just for convenience... and convenience sells. Also buy all the large rig drakes, asplode half of them, sell off rest as collectors items...sorry my future plan popped up there.
Weaver Goldentongue Minmatar Iron Dragon Industries	Posted - 2010.03.09 07:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Akita T You can reasonably have 10 manufacture slots and 10 Drake BPOs, and you'd be earning 90+ mil ISK/day by just building them with materials you buy with next to no effort. That's 2.7 bil ISK/month for a mostly passive business. This all sounds well and good in theory, but in practice it's nowhere near as simple as that. First, while you can manufacture 9 Drakes/day/slot based on manufacturing time, you can't generate BPCs fast enough to fill those slots, due to the time it takes to copy the BPOs. Instead you'll have to buy some BPCs in order to sustain this production rate. Second, you make it sound like you just manufacture 90 Drakes/day and the Drakes R Us lorry will turn up and take them of your hands. That's a lot of ships, which even in a hub like Jita will put downward pressure on the sell price. Meanwhile there are dozens of other sellers also trying to sell their product, forcing you to spend a lot of time playing the 0.01 ISK game just to avoid generating a backlog of product. There is a definite sweetspot when building ships, whereby you generate the maximum quantity that the market can sustain, without overloading it and being forced to sell at lower prices for no additional profit. Just buying 10 BPOs and churning them out at maximum rate is not the way to do it.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.09 08:40:00 - [53] Originally by: Weaver Goldentongue Originally by: Akita T You can reasonably have 10 manufacture slots and 10 Drake BPOs, and you'd be earning 90+ mil ISK/day by just building them with materials you buy with next to no effort. That's 2.7 bil ISK/month for a mostly passive business. This all sounds well and good in theory, but in practice it's nowhere near as simple as that. Oh, really ? Quote: First, while you can manufacture 9 Drakes/day/slot based on manufacturing time, you can't generate BPCs fast enough to fill those slots, due to the time it takes to copy the BPOs. Instead you'll have to buy some BPCs in order to sustain this production rate. You do know that you can build directly from a BPO, you don't actually have to make a copy first, right ? Just checking. Quote: Second, you make it sound like you just manufacture 90 Drakes/day and the Drakes R Us lorry will turn up and take them of your hands. Pretty much, yeah. If you already have a Drake from somewhere, pay the platinum insurance, take it out, self-destruct it, you get 26.6 mil ISK overall. Compared to the price the OP listed, that's 400k+ ISK net profit for less than 3 minute's worth of "work" for anybody that buys it on the market from you (~8 mil ISK/hour plus whatever you make from salvaging 20-ish Drakes), or under 1 minute for "people with a system" (~24 mil ISK/hour plus whatever you make from salvaging 60-ish Drakes). Considering the extremely low entry barriers to "cashing out like that", and considering the alternatives available for people with low SP counts, I'd say blowing up Drakes for a profit is a pretty lucrative thing as long as oodles of Drakes are available in a single place at below "insurance scam" price. So, yeah, even under those conditions, if you find a newb-ish partener... come on, don't tell me you would have trouble finding somebody (or several somebodies) that couldn't be bothered to take 1.5-4.5 hours on a daily basis (total between them) to "earn" a grand total of probably over 40 mil ISK/day (after salvage) while the SP total requirements are basically next to nothing (they just need to be a non-trial account to train the battlecruiser skill). Quote: There is a definite sweetspot when building ships, whereby you generate the maximum quantity that the market can sustain, without overloading it and being forced to sell at lower prices for no additional profit. Just buying 10 BPOs and churning them out at maximum rate is not the way to do it. Considering the recent overabundance of minerals (gee, thanks, Veldspar accelerated spawn rate, and gee, thanks, mine-to-keep sov upgrades, and let's not even mention wormholes or whatnot) and the fact that insurance is the only thing stopping ship prices from a death-price-spiral, sadly, that is one of the ways to go. Not the one that brings you most ISK, but a reasonably safe and easy way. If enough people do it, it might stabilize the mineral prices enough for this to no longer be profitable at all with any ships, but hey, let's worry about the bridge when we have to cross it. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Weaver Goldentongue Minmatar Iron Dragon Industries	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:08:00 - [54] Originally by: Akita T Oh, really? Yes, really. Originally by: Akita T You do know that you can build directly from a BPO, you don't actually have to make a copy first, right ? Just checking. Actually no, I didn't know that, thanks for the info, that obviously makes it easier. Originally by: Akita T If you already have a Drake from somewhere, pay the platinum insurance, take it out, self-destruct it, you get 26.6 mil ISK overall. Compared to the price the OP listed, that's 400k+ ISK net profit for less than 3 minute's worth of "work" for anybody that buys it on the market from you (~8 mil ISK/hour plus whatever you make from salvaging 20-ish Drakes), or under 1 minute for "people with a system" (~24 mil ISK/hour plus whatever you make from salvaging 60-ish Drakes). Considering the extremely low entry barriers to "cashing out like that", and considering the alternatives available for people with low SP counts, I'd say blowing up Drakes for a profit is a pretty lucrative thing as long as oodles of Drakes are available in a single place at below "insurance scam" price. This is very contradictory though. Building drakes doesn't require a huge number of SPs, nor does blowing them up, but how many low SP characters have the 6 billion start up costs required in your example. 6 billion ISK is not an "extremely low barrier to entry". Also, I only have access to Eve-Metrics at the moment, but it looks to me like The Forge (AKA Jita) currently shifts an average of 320 Drakes per day. You can't tell me that pumping another 90 into the mix isn't going to put downward pressure on the price of those ships - great for those performing the insurance fraud, not so great for those building the things in the first place. Not saying you can't generate Drakes simply for Insurance Fraud purposes (I'm well aware of the profits to be made from this, I've done it myself in the past), but I repeat, it isn't as simple as just cranking out an endless supply of ships.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:20:00 - [55] Edited by: Akita T on 09/03/2010 09:23:40 Originally by: Weaver Goldentongue This is very contradictory though. Building drakes doesn't require a huge number of SPs, nor does blowing them up, but how many low SP characters have the 6 billion start up costs required in your example. 6 billion ISK is not an "extremely low barrier to entry". YOUR entry barrier is 6 bil ISK, into the bulk manufacture business. THEIR entry barrier is Caldari Cruiser 3 + Battlecruisers 2 + 11.4 mil ISK for platinum insurance + 26.2 mil ISK for the purchase of 1 Drake (= 37.6 mil ISK total), which you have to agree, it's a pretty low entry barrier. After the first blown-up Drake, they end up with 38 mil ISK total. Heck, if you find somebody you can reasonably trust, they only need the 11.4 mil ISK for the insurance... or better still, if you find somebody in your own corp, you can give him corp-insured ships to do that for even less hassle for him. Quote: Not saying you can't generate Drakes simply for Insurance Fraud purposes (I'm well aware of the profits to be made from this, I've done it myself in the past), but I repeat, it isn't as simple as just cranking out an endless supply of ships. Not quite, but pretty close, if you do set your goal to be production for insurance-blow-up purposes. Those don't even have to enter the market at all, just do private deals with a few people you trust to do it all properly that could use the extra ISK. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Weaver Goldentongue Minmatar Iron Dragon Industries	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Akita T YOUR entry barrier is 6 bil ISK, into the bulk manufacture business. Isn't that what we're talking about here? I thought the thread was about making money building BCs from a BPO. I don't really care about the guys buying these things and how easy it is for them, I'm talking about the difficulties producing ships in the quantities you suggest, and the impact it will have on the price of those ships.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Weaver Goldentongue Isn't that what we're talking about here? Not anymore. We moved onto unloading stocks fast enough and hassle-free enough after you scaled up production and still making a profit from it. Quote: I don't really care about the guys buying these things and how easy it is for them, I'm talking about the difficulties producing ships in the quantities you suggest, and the impact it will have on the price of those ships. Didn't I just explain how you can make sure the price will not be impacted much by leveraging the platinum insurance payout with the aid of newer characters eager to earn some easy ISK too ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Cyaxares II Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.09 09:57:00 - [58] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 09/03/2010 09:57:38 Originally by: Weaver Goldentongue I thought the thread was about making money building BCs from a BPO. I don't really care about the guys buying these things and how easy it is for them, I'm talking about the difficulties producing ships in the quantities you suggest, and the impact it will have on the price of those ships. Akita's point was: you can make decent ISK producing BCs from BPOs with minimum work required (outsource the blowing up; this is easily possible because of the low entry barriers to blowing up BCs) and it won't affect market prices at all, because you aren't going to place these ships on the market in the first place. edit: what I don't understand is: why did you buy the BPO in the first place, if you are dissatisfied by the ROI?
Weaver Goldentongue Minmatar Iron Dragon Industries	Posted - 2010.03.09 10:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Akita T Didn't I just explain how you can make sure the price will not be impacted much by leveraging the platinum insurance payout with the aid of newer characters eager to earn some easy ISK too ? Sure, I get that, but you've now raised your barrier to entry still further, by needing a bunch of other players to get this to work. Not only that, but those players must be willing to spend a combined time of 6 hours (4 mins per ship * 90 ships) per day doing what is, let's face it, a very dull task, every day.
Purple Ecstasy	Posted - 2010.03.09 11:01:00 - [60] Lol wow, so much hate in this thread about pancakes. Everyone should just put syrup on their pancakes and be happy. Syrup ftw
Minaras Laentic The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2010.03.09 11:14:00 - [61] 340 drakes can be buildt in a matter of months so a drake bpo is a good investment. you don't get it much better than that. well not on any item with as good traffic as the drake anyways
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.03.09 11:44:00 - [62] Edited by: Companion Trollin on 09/03/2010 11:44:14 Originally by: Minaras Laentic 340 drakes can be buildt in a matter of months so a drake bpo is a good investment. you don't get it much better than that. well not on any item with as good traffic as the drake anyways I hate to say it, but a drake bpo isn't the optimal way to produce items for sale. I recommend investing in 50 or so pussies and farming kittens for re-sale. I expect you'll beat the drake BPO for production of salable product easily.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Punic Corp.	Posted - 2010.03.09 13:18:00 - [63] Originally by: Companion Trollin I recommend investing in 50 or so pussies ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.'
InUrJita CheckinUrPrice	Posted - 2010.03.09 16:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Marius Victor People do not equate their "game time" of mining their ores or buying of the ores of any value, therefore when they manufacture Tier 2 T1 BC's such as the Drake and then sell them at a .0003% profit margin, that is totally fine with them. People are generally efficient at valuing their time. If you view the profit as insufficient reward for your time, you've been out-competed by someone with lower production costs. In fact, your inability to enter the market is pretty much proof positive that everything is going swimmingly. It's definitional that a competitive market is at an equilibrium when an additional producer causes marginal cost to head above per unit price. I, as a net consumer, vastly prefer a market with razor thin margins to one with giant fat wastelands of economic profit waiting to be snapped up by any Tom, ** or Harry. Additionally, I submit that it is in fact a good thing that someone cannot simply walk into a production arena and dominate it by sheer fact of being richer than existing market participants. If you want in, and you want to win, you'll need to do it better, cheaper and faster than the guys that are already doing it. Don't like it? Move on to something less competitive. Quote: Thus anyone with any brains in their head would be stupid to compete. I would compare it to a Furniture store making fine furniture and then selling it at the price that they paid for the lumber. It wouldn't happen. Oh, you mean all those fine furniture shops that got driven out of business by Ikea? If you can do it cheaper, feel free to dominate the market. If you can't, it's both ignorant and a clear case of sour grapes if you call those that do it every day idiots. After all, if you're smarter than them, you should be able to beat them, right? Quote:** I know there are places to sell Drakes for more. I get that. As far as "buy ordering" the mins and building the Drakes from that... Why wouldn't I just "Sell Order" the mins right back on the market and skip the whole process of building the Drake? Manufacturing is the process of adding value to raw materials. If your efforts do not add additional value, you're wasting your time and should indeed go back to arbitraging raw materials. It's simple enough that anyone can do it, requires no capital or supply chain or, really, any effort at all. Sounds perfect for you!
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.10 00:41:00 - [65] Edited by: Marius Victor on 10/03/2010 00:44:26 Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice Originally by: Marius Victor People do not equate their "game time" of mining their ores or buying of the ores of any value, therefore when they manufacture Tier 2 T1 BC's such as the Drake and then sell them at a .0003% profit margin, that is totally fine with them. People are generally efficient at valuing their time. If you view the profit as insufficient reward for your time, you've been out-competed by someone with lower production costs. In fact, your inability to enter the market is pretty much proof positive that everything is going swimmingly. It's definitional that a competitive market is at an equilibrium when an additional producer causes marginal cost to head above per unit price. I, as a net consumer, vastly prefer a market with razor thin margins to one with giant fat wastelands of economic profit waiting to be snapped up by any Tom, ** or Harry. Additionally, I submit that it is in fact a good thing that someone cannot simply walk into a production arena and dominate it by sheer fact of being richer than existing market participants. If you want in, and you want to win, you'll need to do it better, cheaper and faster than the guys that are already doing it. Don't like it? Move on to something less competitive. Quote: Thus anyone with any brains in their head would be stupid to compete. I would compare it to a Furniture store making fine furniture and then selling it at the price that they paid for the lumber. It wouldn't happen. Oh, you mean all those fine furniture shops that got driven out of business by Ikea? If you can do it cheaper, feel free to dominate the market. If you can't, it's both ignorant and a clear case of sour grapes if you call those that do it every day idiots. After all, if you're smarter than them, you should be able to beat them, right? Quote:** I know there are places to sell Drakes for more. I get that. As far as "buy ordering" the mins and building the Drakes from that... Why wouldn't I just "Sell Order" the mins right back on the market and skip the whole process of building the Drake? Manufacturing is the process of adding value to raw materials. If your efforts do not add additional value, you're wasting your time and should indeed go back to arbitraging raw materials. It's simple enough that anyone can do it, requires no capital or supply chain or, really, any effort at all. Sounds perfect for you! "People are generally efficient at valuing their time. If you view the profit as insufficient reward for your time, you've been out-competed by someone with lower production costs." I think you missed the part where I mentioned that even with a production efficiency of 5 and a ML 60 Drake BPO this was the cost in making the Drake. There's really not a lot more one can do to minimize production costs. "Oh, you mean all those fine furniture shops that got driven out of business by Ikea? If you can do it cheaper, feel free to dominate the market. If you can't, it's both ignorant and a clear case of sour grapes if you call those that do it every day idiots. After all, if you're smarter than them, you should be able to beat them, right? " And to this point I can say this. I absolutly guarantee you that Ikea is making WAY more than 3-4% profit off the cost of their materials. You think Ikea only sells their furniture at 3% over what hey pay to make it? If you do, then truly, you are the one who needs a reality check. btw, what is it with all these "know it alls" on the forums? Akita, I can respect... but this guy...
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:02:00 - [66] Edited by: Marius Victor on 10/03/2010 01:06:16 Besides the fact that unfortunately a Drake BPO produces a Drake. period. There is no "cooler" Drake, or "higher quality" Drake. (and no, I'm not referring to t2) It is a Drake and that's it. So, Ikea can create something that may have some individuality to it, while Eve manufacturers cannot. But Eve manufacturers still sell their wares for .003% price mark ups. It is what it is. As I said before, I shouldn't have bought the BPOs. I am currently researching them and will try to make a little money off of selling them at a higher ML.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:07:00 - [67] Originally by: Marius Victor Besides the fact that unfortunately a Drake BPO produces a Drake. period. There is no "cooler" Drake, or "higher quality" Drake. It is a Drake and that's it. So, Ikea can create something that may have some individuality to it, while Eve manufacturers cannot. I don't know, I'm pretty sure my drake is not only cooler than your drake but also that my drake can beat up your drake.
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:11:00 - [68] Quote: I don't know, I'm pretty sure my drake is not only cooler than your drake but also that my drake can beat up your drake. I personally prefer a Harbinger...
LarcatOfRens	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:26:00 - [69] There is something that I don't understand about this thread. The thing that I don't understand about this thread is that someone is failing to make ISK trading Drakes. Could you please expand/explain?
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:33:00 - [70] Originally by: LarcatOfRens There is something that I don't understand about this thread. The thing that I don't understand about this thread is that someone is failing to make ISK trading Drakes. Could you please expand/explain? Oh there's ISK to be made. A whopping 1 million per Drake. Pretty stellar.
Krythas	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:37:00 - [71] I personally like Myrmidons.. you should sell your drake BPO and get a Myrmidon BPO.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:37:00 - [72] Edited by: Companion Trollin on 10/03/2010 01:39:23 Originally by: Marius Victor Originally by: LarcatOfRens There is something that I don't understand about this thread. The thing that I don't understand about this thread is that someone is failing to make ISK trading Drakes. Could you please expand/explain? Oh there's ISK to be made. A whopping 1 million per Drake. Pretty stellar. In all seriousness 1m per drake is fine as long as the input is minimal and the units flipped per month range from 500-1000. Or, alternately you could find a better location and flip a hundred at a 5m margin. TL;DR: you're doing it wrong. edit: Originally by: Marius Victor Quote: I don't know, I'm pretty sure my drake is not only cooler than your drake but also that my drake can beat up your drake. I personally prefer a Harbinger... That's cool, my drake can beat that up too.
Marius Victor	Posted - 2010.03.10 01:50:00 - [73] Edited by: Marius Victor on 10/03/2010 01:51:15 That's quite odd, as your BC killboard stats say you are exactly 0-0 just like me. Your imaginary Drake? Been hunting Wolverines in Alaska again Napolean?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.10 02:21:00 - [74] Originally by: Marius Victor Edited by: Marius Victor on 10/03/2010 01:51:15 That's quite odd, as your BC killboard stats say you are exactly 0-0 just like me. Your imaginary Drake? Been hunting Wolverines in Alaska again Napolean? people use alts for stuff
LarcatOfRens	Posted - 2010.03.10 02:40:00 - [75] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton people use alts for stuff This thread just went from funny to vicious.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.03.10 02:54:00 - [76] Originally by: LarcatOfRens Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton people use alts for stuff This thread just went from funny to vicious. stuff use alts for people. Now thread is funny again yay! --------------------------------- Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2010.03.10 03:24:00 - [77] Now stuff people again! Yay funny thread use is for alts.
clixoras	Posted - 2010.03.10 10:42:00 - [78] take your pick i would say: http://eve-profits.com/list

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