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Chloe Prime
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:56:00 -
[1]
Large Armor Repairer II repairs 800 with 15 secs activation time (53/sec). Large Remote Armor Repair System II repairs 384 with 4.5 secs activation time (85/sec).
LAR II is affected by Repair System skills which reduces cycle time 5% per level. So activation would be 11.25 sec. This would bring repair up to 71/sec.
So am I right to say that a Large Armor Remote Repair System II is superior to LAR II? Did I miss something?
This assumes resists are the same, there is sufficient cap, etc.
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Sirce
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:58:00 -
[2]
yes it is superior, unfortunatly though if you want to do anything solo.... LRAR is probably pretty inadvisable, which is generally why people fit LARs instead <3
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.03.08 10:59:00 -
[3]
Edited by: NoNah on 08/03/2010 10:58:57
You're comparing apples with oranges.
One of them is remote, the other is local.
That means, one requires a target lock, the other does not. That means an ECM will break your tank entirely in one case, the other will not. It means if your friend for some reason does not respond... you're a goner.
Apples are superior to both.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 915436
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:05:00 -
[4]
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
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Chloe Prime
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:05:00 -
[5]
Ah thank you for the replies. I was considering dual-boxing dual-dominix fit and both relying on LRARS II from the other ship for superior repair or perhaps maintaining 1 LAR + 1 LRARS (from the other ship).
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 08/03/2010 11:31:06
+
LAR use a low slot
LRAR use a high slot
If you fit a LRAR, you loose dps, unless you are specialized in that role.
But if you are the remote repairer, you will be primary.
Thinking => ideal = ships with spare unbonused high slots => megathron, tempest, not the domi, it can fit 6 bonused blasters !
+ I agree, if you are just plate fitted, you can fit dps mod.
I need to meditate about this.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:31:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
This.
Oh, and buff active tanking.
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Hesfarato
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:32:00 -
[8]
If you are thinking you have dual accounts using the domis high slot for repariing and lowslots just to buffert tank you would prbobly doing very well. and just having the drones killin stuff.
But you need the skills for it. The Remote reppers are very powerhungry stuff.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.03.08 11:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
You're suggesting having a central computing server, and then a dumb terminal connecting through WLAN, possibly even apply it to a cloud so many can share the same repairers for MUCH faster calculations/reperations? Interesting.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 510473
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Incipus
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
Do you also find it peculiar that a group of people can do something more efficiently in eve than one guy solo? Because that's pretty much a theme.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:02:00 -
[11]
Here is a fit
[Tempest, PVP - remote]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Stasis Webifier II
Initiated Warp Disruptor I
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x1
Hammerhead II x2
Ogre II x2
831 Dps (not that bad)
100 000 EHP (not that bad)
2 sustained remote rep (the only heavy cap use)
I think i would drop the drones for 5 ecm medium (the GTFO ) and 5 warior II (the anti frig/drones job)
Now i challenge you. Find me a ship able to combat (with enough dps/ehp) and remote rep able.
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Saietor Blackgreen
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 08/03/2010 12:08:54
For dual-dominix consider remote reps + cap transfer. I believe its better for aggroed Domi to be pumping cap out to assisting one, and assisting domi RRing aggroed one.
This will be more efficient that local rep on aggroed Dominix, because you actually transfer more capacitor than you use.
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EvE online. New game every 6 months. |
Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:20:00 -
[13]
Just be careful if a mission pits you against Caldari Navy, or Guristas, as these NPCs jam, and while jammed you don't tank.
I think the LAR Vs LRAR trade off is fine.
LRAR needs you to have an active target, and it is limited by range <9km range. Which makes you very vulenable to electronic warfare.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 08/03/2010 12:08:54
For dual-dominix consider remote reps + cap transfer. I believe its better for aggroed Domi to be pumping cap out to assisting one, and assisting domi RRing aggroed one.
This will be more efficient that local rep on aggroed Dominix, because you actually transfer more capacitor than you use.
Except... you've then wasted tons of highslots and are stuck with a bunch of useless mid and lowslots. I'd personally prefer seeing the aggroing domi going with smaller rails and a single repper tank, while the other domi goes with 425mm rails and lots of magstabs/tracking mods.
This will be more efficient than putting insane overtanks on a bunch of domis.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 846736
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.08 12:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
You're suggesting having a central computing server, and then a dumb terminal connecting through WLAN, possibly even apply it to a cloud so many can share the same repairers for MUCH faster calculations/reperations? Interesting.
I get nightmares thinking about having your GPU connected to your computer using a USB 1.1 cable...
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tehSiner
Abnormal Experience
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Posted - 2010.03.08 13:01:00 -
[16]
for my pve cruise raven/sentry dominix pair a local/remote combo works best. raven has a cap stable LSB with LRAR for dominix, and domi has one cap stable LAR with LST. this gives good local tank with remote support. most of the time, aggro gets distributed, so remote rep is not even needed. if aggro goes fubar and a single ship gets it all, the other ship turns off local rep, and start remote rep. it also works good when working with guristas jamming or if connection drops, local tank can buy you some time.
abnormal behavior of abnormal brain makes me normal |
Salen Kane
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.08 13:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
Its usually alot easier to repair a car if you're outside the car than it is if you're stuck inside it. If you're actively driving it, dont even think about it.
Besides, remote rep requires 2 ships to even be viable, one repping and one being repped, while local rep requires only one ship. Pretty major advantage for local rep there.
Do not try to pwn with the ship. You are only pwning yourself. Instead, realise that there is no ship, there is only you, pwning. |
Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.08 13:28:00 -
[18]
Haha, Salen. The comparison doesn't really work with EVE though. It's not like you send out Janitors and Nekkid Dancers to fix your ship. You use nanotechnology to fix the armor, pretty much like your immune system together with your blood and plasma will fix a wound on your body. From the inside mind you :D
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Calydonian Boar
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Posted - 2010.03.08 13:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
Then assume your motherboard is crappy and wireless connection is uber, then it will make more sense :)
which is true in game as well... remote is better than local tank as remote rep comes with consequences in such ways those were mentioned above
its just as simple as "one rep being better than other" don't dwell into unnecessary details or you will get lost, think simple its just game :)
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.08 13:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Calydonian Boar
its just as simple as "one rep being better than other" don't dwell into unnecessary details or you will get lost, think simple its just game :)
Eh, what game were we talking about again?
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Salen Kane
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.08 14:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Haha, Salen. The comparison doesn't really work with EVE though. It's not like you send out Janitors and Nekkid Dancers to fix your ship. You use nanotechnology to fix the armor, pretty much like your immune system together with your blood and plasma will fix a wound on your body. From the inside mind you :D
Ofcourse you dont, the naked dancers wouldn't have presure suits! They'd die before they got any repairing done. You send slaves!
Anyway, the comparison doesn't have to make sense because its primary a balance issue anyway. There's lots of stuff like this that doesn't make sense in EVE, like how bigger ships get slower lock times, despite having more room for sensors (and higher sensor strength).
Do not try to pwn with the ship. You are only pwning yourself. Instead, realise that there is no ship, there is only you, pwning. |
Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.03.08 15:04:00 -
[22]
didnt ccp over do the RR optoins to make them stronger, to encourage the players to gang up etc.
now blobs are everywhere making ccp lots of money, cant we re tweak the ratio of personnel or gang reppers?
IMO in a mmoprg ofc the gangs are going to be stronger, so one would expect a local rep to be the better out of the two overall, as one can only fit 1/2 realisticly where as a gang is basicly unlimited.
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kessah
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.03.08 15:56:00 -
[23]
Factoring in boosters and implants will boost the numbers on local reps also.
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.03.08 16:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
The example was ONE remote repper vs. ONE local repper. There's no need to even bring several friends into the equation.
The example was TWO players working alone vs TWO players working together. The game is balanced with the intention of ensuring the latter is more effective, as such remote repair is intentionally made to be more powerful than local repair.
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
The game is not a sci-fi simulator. Real life comparisons are irrelevent to game balance. Role playing explinations are written to explain game mechanics. Game mechanics are never adjusted to simulate a role playing reality.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.03.08 16:06:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 08/03/2010 16:05:55
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
The game is not a sci-fi simulator. Real life comparisons are irrelevent to game balance. Role playing explinations are written to explain game mechanics. Game mechanics are never adjusted to simulate a role playing reality.
high slots in eve are "high power" slots, not supprising they are more powerful than a low slot mod at the same thing 
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.08 16:26:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 08/03/2010 16:27:03
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 08/03/2010 16:26:26
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 08/03/2010 16:26:06
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Madmi CEO
The example was ONE remote repper vs. ONE local repper. There's no need to even bring several friends into the equation.
The example was TWO players working alone vs TWO players working together. The game is balanced with the intention of ensuring the latter is more effective, as such remote repair is intentionally made to be more powerful than local repair.
Let me answer by quoting the original post:
Originally by: Chloe Prime
Large Armor Repairer II repairs 800 with 15 secs activation time (53/sec). Large Remote Armor Repair System II repairs 384 with 4.5 secs activation time (85/sec).
LAR II is affected by Repair System skills which reduces cycle time 5% per level. So activation would be 11.25 sec. This would bring repair up to 71/sec.
So am I right to say that a Large Armor Remote Repair System II is superior to LAR II? Did I miss something?
This assumes resists are the same, there is sufficient cap, etc.
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
The game is not a sci-fi simulator. Real life comparisons are irrelevent to game balance. Role playing explinations are written to explain game mechanics. Game mechanics are never adjusted to simulate a role playing reality.
First of all, the comparison was a comic relief. Second of all, we can easily agree that EVE is not supposed to be a deep space simulator. I'm sure the game would be utterly boring if that was the case. My point was simply that one unit repaired a larger amount per second than another unit.
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SofaKing Weetaded
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Posted - 2010.03.08 16:46:00 -
[27]
Solo-pvp is so gay it will give you AIDS.
Stop whining - play with a group of friends and enjoy a better game.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.03.08 17:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Incipus
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
Do you also find it peculiar that a group of people can do something more efficiently in eve than one guy solo? Because that's pretty much a theme.
Not particularly, 1+1=1.9 is common in EVE as well. There is an inherent loss of efficiency in teamwork (be it via boxing or a couple actual players working together) that results in not getting quite twice the power increase in many situations.
Case in point: A pair of battleships running missions together don't usually earn more ISK/hr than a pair of battleships each soloing their own mission.
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Johnnyjelly
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Posted - 2010.03.08 18:46:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Johnnyjelly on 08/03/2010 18:46:10
:(
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.03.08 21:09:00 -
[30]
I still like the idea that someone posted in another thread.
GREATLY boost local rep hp/sec AND cap/sec.
Like let armor rep boost 3200 armor every 15 seconds, but also use 1600 cap every 15 seconds. Also boost capacitor size, but nerf its recharge rate.
Lets you tank a lot longer when primared but your overall DPS tanked doesn't increase much. Would also make energy transfer arrays more important.
Note: This would apply to ALL reps, of ALL sizes.
Oh no you don't!
Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.03.08 22:21:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Trader20 on 08/03/2010 22:24:00
Woops pve 
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Matalino
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Posted - 2010.03.08 22:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Matalino on 08/03/2010 23:04:34
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 08/03/2010 16:27:03
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Madmi CEO
The example was ONE remote repper vs. ONE local repper. There's no need to even bring several friends into the equation.
The example was TWO players working alone vs TWO players working together. The game is balanced with the intention of ensuring the latter is more effective, as such remote repair is intentionally made to be more powerful than local repair.
Let me answer by quoting the original post:
Originally by: Chloe Prime
Large Armor Repairer II repairs 800 with 15 secs activation time (53/sec). Large Remote Armor Repair System II repairs 384 with 4.5 secs activation time (85/sec).
LAR II is affected by Repair System skills which reduces cycle time 5% per level. So activation would be 11.25 sec. This would bring repair up to 71/sec.
So am I right to say that a Large Armor Remote Repair System II is superior to LAR II? Did I miss something?
This assumes resists are the same, there is sufficient cap, etc.
You must also assume that there are two ships: each repairing each other.
If you assume that there is only one ship, then the Large Remote Armor Repair System II would repair at a rate of 0 HP/sec, as a ship cannot use a remote assistance module on itself.
If you assume that there are two ships working together, each using a Large Remote Armor Repair System II on the other, then each ship would receive 85 HP/sec.
If each ship were to use a Large Armor Repairer II instead, each ship would receive 71 HP/sec.
A Large Armor Remote Repair System II is superior to Large Armor Repairer II in the situations for which it is intended to be superior.
However, it might be worth noting that the Large Armor Repairer II is more capacitor efficient on ships that do not receive a bonus to remote armour repair capacitor usage.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.03.09 00:47:00 -
[33]
Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 09/03/2010 00:47:14
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Originally by: Incipus
Originally by: Madmi CEO
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
It's like having a CPU that works better on wireless LAN than hooked up directly to the motherboard in a dedicated socket. Just doesn't happen.
Do you also find it peculiar that a group of people can do something more efficiently in eve than one guy solo? Because that's pretty much a theme.
Not particularly, 1+1=1.9 is common in EVE as well. There is an inherent loss of efficiency in teamwork (be it via boxing or a couple actual players working together) that results in not getting quite twice the power increase in many situations.
Case in point: A pair of battleships running missions together don't usually earn more ISK/hr than a pair of battleships each soloing their own mission.
Yeah... only because of travel time (well, time-not-spent-fighting, in general) - not because the game was intentionally designed to punish people working together.
On the other hand, two people with identical DPS shooting one ship WILL typically kill it in less than half of the time that either one could have killed it by themselves.
There is most definitely synergy in eve's combat mechanics.
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Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
altyaltyaltyalt
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Posted - 2010.03.09 01:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Last Wolf
I still like the idea that someone posted in another thread.
GREATLY boost local rep hp/sec AND cap/sec.
Like let armor rep boost 3200 armor every 15 seconds, but also use 1600 cap every 15 seconds. Also boost capacitor size, but nerf its recharge rate.
Lets you tank a lot longer when primared but your overall DPS tanked doesn't increase much. Would also make energy transfer arrays more important.
Note: This would apply to ALL reps, of ALL sizes.
Way to kill whats left of solo pvp.
The current system is fine. Leave it the way it is.
Current gang/fleet tanking mechanics require some teamwork (RR BS) or some teamwork with some specialization (Logis). And that's how I think it should be.
Self repping still has a narrowly defined role, and I'm ok with that. Because to buff it screws with the necessity of teamwork and/or specialization. Plus I'd rather fly gunboats than neut domis all the time.  |
Kalnov
Gallente
Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 03:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Chloe Prime
Edited by: Chloe Prime on 08/03/2010 11:10:48
In addition, domi has many spare hi-slots that are generally under utilized.
Use guns. Always use guns. Lots of them.
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Not Well
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Posted - 2010.03.09 10:17:00 -
[36]
The naked dancers will have transparent environment suits, which are suitable for work repairing spacecraft under fire and performing in dodgy bars at stations in Caldari space.
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Pixelst0rm
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Posted - 2010.03.09 10:31:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
Sometimes you just cant lick your own b00lls, while others can. Hence better repair efficiency.
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Salen Kane
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.03.09 11:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Pixelst0rm
Quote:
I still find it rather peculiar that you can repair with greater efficiency over distance than you can with a local repair unit.
Sometimes you just cant lick your own b00lls, while others can. Hence better repair efficiency.
Exotic dances are in fact very good at this, while not being too great for remote repairing.
Also, I cant help but think that with all the LARS and LRARS going around this thread, there is a great setup for a SARS joke, but I dont dare to make it. Im too chicken.
Yes, I really am that horrible. |
Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.03.09 11:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Salen Kane
Exotic dances are in fact very good at this, while not being too great for remote repairing.
Also, I cant help but think that with all the LARS and LRARS going around this thread, there is a great setup for a SARS joke, but I dont dare to make it. Im too chicken.
I wouldnt. This thread is deadly serious, unlike SARS.
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2010.03.09 12:07:00 -
[40]
Sarah Silverman wouldn't have hesitated...
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2010.03.09 15:20:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 09/03/2010 15:20:24
Originally by: Chloe Prime
In addition, domi has many spare hi-slots that are generally under utilized.
Most people define "spare hi-slot" by "not a bonused weapon hardpoint". Which means the Domi got none.
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081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.09 16:54:00 -
[42]
Use Solace!
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Camdelma
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.10 03:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Use Solace!
NEVER
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