| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project
Black Thorne Alliance
109
   |
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:10:00 -
[121] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Draconus Lofwyr wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Draconus Lofwyr wrote:i agree, bring back the lvl 5 high sec overlap. CCP removed it because they were to high value for high sec, not enough risk, yet later the basically brought lvl 5 missions to high sec with high sec incursions. now does that not send a mixed message? either remove incursions from high sec, or bring back lvl 5 missions. cant have it both ways and expect us not to see the hippocracy. Incursions require more than 1 person. Level 5s don't. If you think they do, then you are just bad at shooting crosses. no, they just require several accounts, if you think they don't then your bad at multiboxing. The point being, even as a group, incursions are more lucrative than lvl 5 missions, without the hassle of loot, or salvage so why have one and not the other? Have you ever heard of a passive-tanked cap-free shield Ishtar? It can solo most level 5s. And you're right... Incursions do pay much more than level 5s. Nerf them again or move them out to low-sec too.
Actualy after the recent changes, vangaurds (the ones that were the problem for a long time) now pay less per hour than your average lvl 4 agent. I think assaults and hqs might have slightly higher payouts but they are significantly more involved. (I don't care what sec status it is, if you can get 50 guys into a fleet and get them all to not be ******** then you've earned your money) |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
64
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:41:00 -
[122] - Quote
You know.. it's really not that hard to understand. Some people want to PvP some of the time and carebear some of the time. Some people have no interest in PvP whatsoever and want to avoid it whenever possible. And these two sets of people make up what.. 80, 90% of EVE? There's a reason only a small fraction of players live in nullsec or low sec. Pretending otherwise, fronting with the usual "omg pvp game suckmahballz bro" crap ignores the reality of the situation. |
Galphii
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:45:00 -
[123] - Quote
This issue will be addressed when CCP get around to doing what Ytterbium said during fanfest - they want to make pve combat more like pvp style combat. When carebears have to fit their ships like pvpers, they will no longer be required to take defenceless isk pi+Ĥatas into lowsec and thus level 5's and all other lowsec missioning will have more appeal. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
442
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 01:36:00 -
[124] - Quote
Galphii wrote:This issue will be addressed when CCP get around to doing what Ytterbium said during fanfest - they want to make pve combat more like pvp style combat. When carebears have to fit their ships like pvpers, they will no longer be required to take defenceless isk pi+Ĥatas into lowsec and thus level 5's and all other lowsec missioning will have more appeal.
The existing situation, where PvE requires fits that block PvP ability to seriously participate, creates this issue.
Many PvP fans look for ships with high ISK value to demonstrate their hunting skills. The kill mails get posted so they can boast of their conquests.
PvE pilots know this well enough to not risk these expensive mission boats in places where they have more risk.
Plus there are cheap ganks. The one where the kill mail lists or should list a laundry list of NPC opponents who did all the work in wearing down the target ship. Simply by doing the mission the PvE ship is left unprepared for a confrontation at that point.
No pilot wants to lose an expensive ship that way. Hearing later that anything goes and is fair hardly justifies taking risks like that in their opinion.
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1558
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 03:07:00 -
[125] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Galphii wrote:This issue will be addressed when CCP get around to doing what Ytterbium said during fanfest - they want to make pve combat more like pvp style combat. When carebears have to fit their ships like pvpers, they will no longer be required to take defenceless isk pi+Ĥatas into lowsec and thus level 5's and all other lowsec missioning will have more appeal. The existing situation, where PvE requires fits that block PvP ability to seriously participate, creates this issue. Many PvP fans look for ships with high ISK value to demonstrate their hunting skills. The kill mails get posted so they can boast of their conquests. PvE pilots know this well enough to not risk these expensive mission boats in places where they have more risk. Plus there are cheap ganks. The one where the kill mail lists or should list a laundry list of NPC opponents who did all the work in wearing down the target ship. Simply by doing the mission the PvE ship is left unprepared for a confrontation at that point. No pilot wants to lose an expensive ship that way. Hearing later that anything goes and is fair hardly justifies taking risks like that in their opinion.
If you PvE in a PvP ship, we'll just come and kill you with 3 PvP ships. Or 5.
It isn't going to be a fair engagement, no matter how much you screw around trying to make PvE like PvP (something that I very much doubt is possibly anyway).
This is simply the nature of hunting targets, as the hunter you can easily choose not to engage unless you have overwhelming force. All the hunted can do is ensure they don't get caught.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Bobbechk
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 09:48:00 -
[126] - Quote
OP doesn't think L4 missions are challenging enough
What CCP obviously needs to do is to make all L4 missions as hard as current L5's |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
450
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 15:42:00 -
[127] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:If you PvE in a PvP ship, we'll just come and kill you with 3 PvP ships. Or 5.
It isn't going to be a fair engagement, no matter how much you screw around trying to make PvE like PvP (something that I very much doubt is possibly anyway).
This is simply the nature of hunting targets, as the hunter you can easily choose not to engage unless you have overwhelming force. All the hunted can do is ensure they don't get caught.
Which is a strong argument for keeping them happy in high sec, since only there do they have the most control over the risk to pricey mission boats these missions seem to favor.
You either want to PvE or you don't. The more you compromise what it is that you want to do, the less happy you could end up.
Not everyone wants change, which is totally fair.
For those that do, I suggest PvP aspects force the least possible compromise on PvE loving pilots. Ganks by overwhelming force is a strategy favored by many.
At least if the target is fitted with PvP as a potential situation, it won't be as badly prepared.
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1566
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:If you PvE in a PvP ship, we'll just come and kill you with 3 PvP ships. Or 5.
It isn't going to be a fair engagement, no matter how much you screw around trying to make PvE like PvP (something that I very much doubt is possibly anyway).
This is simply the nature of hunting targets, as the hunter you can easily choose not to engage unless you have overwhelming force. All the hunted can do is ensure they don't get caught. Which is a strong argument for keeping them happy in high sec, since only there do they have the most control over the risk to pricey mission boats these missions seem to favor.
Well that's kind of the point, those missions don't favour expensive ships. The problem is the risk/reward for certain activities in Eve is completely ******.
You can run level fives in a small gang of cheaper ships, it just isn't profitable to do so because you can make the same amount of ISK grinding level fours solo in high sec. Plus in high sec you can use a shiny ship because hey, it's high sec.
Nikk Narrel wrote:You either want to PvE or you don't. The more you compromise what it is that you want to do, the less happy you could end up.
Not everyone wants change, which is totally fair.
For those that do, I suggest PvP aspects force the least possible compromise on PvE loving pilots. Ganks by overwhelming force is a strategy favored by many.
At least if the target is fitted with PvP as a potential situation, it won't be as badly prepared.
Well that's nice, but then my argument is not that it wouldn't be nice. My argument is that it's impractical and impossible to implement.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
451
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:31:00 -
[129] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:You either want to PvE or you don't. The more you compromise what it is that you want to do, the less happy you could end up.
Not everyone wants change, which is totally fair.
For those that do, I suggest PvP aspects force the least possible compromise on PvE loving pilots. Ganks by overwhelming force is a strategy favored by many.
At least if the target is fitted with PvP as a potential situation, it won't be as badly prepared. Well that's nice, but then my argument is not that it wouldn't be nice. My argument is that it's impractical and impossible to implement.
You may be right, I doubt anyone outside CCP can say for sure.
The fact that some mission boats are so madly expensive might be the result of an attempt to increase the amount being risked in the understanding that risk here excludes PvP. (Usually more so than low and null sec, obviously not completely)
On the other hand, some parts of the game may have been compromises to server or expected balance issues. Issues that may no longer be a problem today like they were in years before.
I think a lot of players would be happier if the NPCs fought in missions were more like PvP experiences. I can accept if this can't be done for good reasons, but I would hope it had been put to the test too.
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1566
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 18:45:00 -
[130] - Quote
If you read some of the dev blogs around incursion development that was an attempt to get as close as possible to PvP in PvE, it would make sense that for practical reasons that was about as close as they could get.
In terms of server load, they have said numerous times they will not implement sleeper or incursion AI in normal missions due to server load. I very much doubt even more advanced AI and dynamic or scaling missions is going to be better for the server.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mordus Angels
451
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:If you read some of the dev blogs around incursion development that was an attempt to get as close as possible to PvP in PvE, it would make sense that for practical reasons that was about as close as they could get.
In terms of server load, they have said numerous times they will not implement sleeper or incursion AI in normal missions due to server load. I very much doubt even more advanced AI and dynamic or scaling missions is going to be better for the server.
If that is the case, I don't hold out much hope for the change to be more like PvP in PvE missions.
Too bad they can't, I believe it would really be a good thing.
Maybe they can clear up the code they talked of at last fanfest, hope springs eternal.
Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata)
Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 05:42:00 -
[132] - Quote
I wonder how many of the "but that would be imbalanced in terms of risk vs. reward" posters apply that to changes made to or needed for PvP. The impression I get from reading this topic is that a lot of the PvP-oriented types who are whining about how much of an imbalance high-sec L5s would provide to PvE risk:reward structures would cry bloody murder if high-sec suicide ganking suddenly had real risks instead of losing a cheap, dinky ship and getting a 15 minute "go hide in the corner" timer. I also get the impression that if they would seriously **** and moan if they stood a good chance at losing their little mission ***** killer when trying to gun down PvE'ers doing missions in actual PvE fits.
Don't get me wrong, it's basic human nature at its finest, so to speak, to want to shave the dice in your favor, keep yourself top dog, and pretend that your opinion is what really matters in the world. I just think it's a hoot that there are so may PvP'ers dogpiling into the topic to raise the risk:reward flag when many if not most of them sound like they don't want to see it raised anywhere near their precious PvP.
Frankly I'm all for risk:reward, but as I said, the fact is it's basic human nature to minimize risk and maximize reward. Bringing L5s into high-sec, regardless of whether they pay out like L4s or like L5s, isn't going to change that. It won't take much or long before L5s are just as safe as L4s for the various mission runners. Also please note that I deliberately did not ascribe any indication of what degree of safety that is because it's all relative. For a three month old character they're a death trap, but for a three year old character they're generally cake. All the people who talk about how L4s are 100% risk-free have obviously been doing them for too long because they don't remember what it's like to set foot into one at 4-5 months.
Still, here's a suggestion. Bring only the anti-empire L5s into high-sec. Leave the L5s against pirate factions in low-sec. This will, so far as I know, not create any new isk in the economy while guaranteeing the "risks" associated with murdering your standings with other empires. Even at full L5 "payouts" the "reward" from doing L5s in this situation will merely be a redistribution of the isk in the game, and as such they probably won't contribute significantly to the inflation of the isk. If anything the increased influx of tags, meta drops, and salvage should decrease the costs and reduce inflation. |
Dancing Sun
Lancer Dragoon
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 13:35:00 -
[133] - Quote
Instead of bringing level 5's to high sec, I'd personally rather they increased the difficulty (and rewards) of missions level 2-4, perhaps making level 4's much harder and more fleet based.
Wasn't there a modular AI that was going to start being implemented in mission rats? That would be a great start! |
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 08:21:00 -
[134] - Quote
At one point, around the time wormholes were being introduced, CCP staff had mentioned that after integrating the "Sleeper AI" with officer spawns in null-sec they were going to look at integrating them with other NPC-arific areas of the game. So far as I'm aware there hasn't been any further mention of the topic on their part since then. |
Dancing Sun
Lancer Dragoon
19
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 20:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
Shereza wrote:At one point, around the time wormholes were being introduced, CCP staff had mentioned that after integrating the "Sleeper AI" with officer spawns in null-sec they were going to look at integrating them with other NPC-arific areas of the game. So far as I'm aware there hasn't been any further mention of the topic on their part since then.
Yeah, that's the modular AI I mentioned. I know they used it in Incursions, and they meant to use it in missions, but you're right.. haven't heard much since then. |
Krops Vont
3 Sun Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:02:00 -
[136] - Quote
They tried doing something like this again... if i recall it was called an Incursion
Then they nerf'd that too. |
Maginica
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 13:49:00 -
[137] - Quote
ccp prefere support ******** camp gater. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
836
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 14:51:00 -
[138] - Quote
Ruareve wrote: There is absolutely no way there would be a rash of cancellations and the population of EVE dry up to the point there won't be any PVP worth speaking about.
This is exactly what some want, and they're pretty vocal with their dozens alts about it.
brb |
Futchmacht
TERRA CORE INDUSTRIES
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 16:15:00 -
[139] - Quote
Dancing Sun wrote:Shereza wrote:At one point, around the time wormholes were being introduced, CCP staff had mentioned that after integrating the "Sleeper AI" with officer spawns in null-sec they were going to look at integrating them with other NPC-arific areas of the game. So far as I'm aware there hasn't been any further mention of the topic on their part since then. Yeah, that's the modular AI I mentioned. I know they used it in Incursions, and they meant to use it in missions, but you're right.. haven't heard much since then.
I'm sure thats still something they are planning.. but like everything EVE.. there are 1,000 plans to do things.. and only 100 a year can get done. if that...
Not to totally de-rail the topic but things like system wide mining belts.. having to scan down minerals..
Proper walking in stations.. (ie. having shops and bars and playing poker and maybe punching someone in the face becuase you had to much to drink). all these things were good ideas.. when and if will ever see them.. who knows..
But im sure this is one of those things (Modular AI into empire missions level 1-4) that will take 2 years to happen .. or be itterated till it does not ever come into the game in any way shape or form we can recognize.
Sorta like how incursions are the new(ish) level 5's more interesting ways to PVE with friends.. and yet some times there in PVP land.
Edit: P.S im all for level 5 missions in Empire as long as there made for small groups and are not worth more then low sec L5's
PVE in groups in EVE on a small scale.. Corp.. or small gang (3-4 friends) is not really in the game well. esp not in a private way. L5's could be set up that way if done proper. and balanced. but CCP unfortunatly has 999 other things on there plate right now so.. maybe join the line.. and hope yours gets moved up :) |
Luc Chastot
Moira.
Villore Accords
36
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 16:19:00 -
[140] - Quote
Maybe you should try Incursions.
Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
456
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 16:27:00 -
[141] - Quote
end-game pve shouldnt be in high sec. |
HELLBOUNDMAN
The Proletarii
137
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 16:39:00 -
[142] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:end-game pve shouldnt be in high sec.
agreed.
However, with the introduction of incursions, even if lvl 5's were brought back to high sec, they wouldn't be end game pve.
That said, I personally dont' care whether you intruduce lvl 5 missions to high sec.
However, I would like to see some form of small scale pve in the form of missions introduced into high sec that players in small corps could gather up and run.
Just something that we could gather up and run in small gangs with logistics and such that has resonable payout, but introduce mechanics to them that keep them from being solo'd. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
666
|
Posted - 2012.10.17 20:02:00 -
[143] - Quote
Incursions are a form of end-game PvE that can be run in Highsec.... The difference is, with incursions, you directly compete with other players for the sites....
If you want to have high-level PvE in highsec, that is alright with me.... However, the rewards need to be balanced appropriately... I'd give a 50% reduction in the bounty and LP payouts for highsec LvL 5 missions.... that would be about right! |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |