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Ballance changes please

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Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:03:00 - [1] How about spending a little time ballancing the game a little? I've been playing the game for 2months now and I've noticed how imballanced it is. Now I'm used to ballanced games like warcraft 3 and starcraft and blizzard the makers of those games are much more concerned with ballances in their games than CCP. Now from what I can see in PvP Caldari>Gallante=Amarr>Minmatar Caldari ships are way to good. Kestrel has 4launcher hardpoints and 3medslots for christ sake, still it's cheaper to build than the Punisher. Caracal the "_LVL2_cruiser_" is much better in fighting than the lvl3 Maller and Thorax still it costs only about 4.5million where as Maller is 8million. The Scorpion is just crazy, it can tackle any battleship that doesnt have eccm. ECM is Stupid, there should be a catch for using it. Like you can only ecm 1 ship per minute and nerf the ecm values on multispectral. Inquisitor is one crappy ship. Minmatar got the rawest deal in the game and It hasn't been patched yet. Whats up? If you could reassure me that some ballance changes are on the way that would be great. Maybe CCP intended to have caldari the pvp race? Fill me in like the homies say. I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:03:00 - [2] How about spending a little time ballancing the game a little? I've been playing the game for 2months now and I've noticed how imballanced it is. Now I'm used to ballanced games like warcraft 3 and starcraft and blizzard the makers of those games are much more concerned with ballances in their games than CCP. Now from what I can see in PvP Caldari>Gallante=Amarr>Minmatar Caldari ships are way to good. Kestrel has 4launcher hardpoints and 3medslots for christ sake, still it's cheaper to build than the Punisher. Caracal the "_LVL2_cruiser_" is much better in fighting than the lvl3 Maller and Thorax still it costs only about 4.5million where as Maller is 8million. The Scorpion is just crazy, it can tackle any battleship that doesnt have eccm. ECM is Stupid, there should be a catch for using it. Like you can only ecm 1 ship per minute and nerf the ecm values on multispectral. Inquisitor is one crappy ship. Minmatar got the rawest deal in the game and It hasn't been patched yet. Whats up? If you could reassure me that some ballance changes are on the way that would be great. Maybe CCP intended to have caldari the pvp race? Fill me in like the homies say. I love x-mas :D
Phasics	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:14:00 - [3] Edited by: Phasics on 29/11/2004 05:20:16 If your so pised off cos your always getting owned , try some new tactics or hell train up a caldari ship or two. Constant nerfing leads to players getting pised off because all the time they put into a specific skill, is no longer worth it, as the nerf has made thier ship crap. SO if they buff your ship or nerf somone elses, your happy thier sad. The nerfies come here and start bithcin about the nerf, CCP makes a new nerf again they happy you sad and thus the cycle continues. The fewer/smaller buff/nerfs that are made the better. Short term fixes are like poison for a long term game. P.S the reason caldari ships have it over most in PvP is missles. However missles (crusie + torps) are damn expensive to use thus it has a big pro-con use. Try looking at all the aspects before calling for a nerf to one thing that is owning you. P.S updated becuase my grammer is crap
Phasics	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:14:00 - [4] Edited by: Phasics on 29/11/2004 05:20:16 If your so pised off cos your always getting owned , try some new tactics or hell train up a caldari ship or two. Constant nerfing leads to players getting pised off because all the time they put into a specific skill, is no longer worth it, as the nerf has made thier ship crap. SO if they buff your ship or nerf somone elses, your happy thier sad. The nerfies come here and start bithcin about the nerf, CCP makes a new nerf again they happy you sad and thus the cycle continues. The fewer/smaller buff/nerfs that are made the better. Short term fixes are like poison for a long term game. P.S the reason caldari ships have it over most in PvP is missles. However missles (crusie + torps) are damn expensive to use thus it has a big pro-con use. Try looking at all the aspects before calling for a nerf to one thing that is owning you. P.S updated becuase my grammer is crap
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:19:00 - [5] Edited by: Siddy on 29/11/2004 05:22:54 as far as i know - this game is not "i got t3h bigger gun i r t3h win" there is many scenarios were Caldaries pwn... ok there is MANY MANY scenarios.. but just for sidenote, i have never been killed by raven or scorppion, and never the less i have killed countless of them in my tempest -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Siddy on 29/11/2004 05:22:54 as far as i know - this game is not "i got t3h bigger gun i r t3h win" there is many scenarios were Caldaries pwn... ok there is MANY MANY scenarios.. but just for sidenote, i have never been killed by raven or scorppion, and never the less i have killed countless of them in my tempest -------------------------------------------
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:21:00 - [7] They dont call it Ballance for nothing you know. I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:21:00 - [8] They dont call it Ballance for nothing you know. I love x-mas :D
F'nog	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:22:00 - [9] Edited by: F'nog on 29/11/2004 05:27:14 Caldari ships are the easiest in the beginning, but an experienced pilot can use any race's ships, except maybe Minmatar, who need a lot of love, equally as well, and often times better. With a little training, you can become very deadly with almost any ship in the game. You just have to know what each one's strengths and weaknesses are. If one knows what one is doing, any equal level ship can easily survive against its Caldari counterpart, since they can do a lot of damage, but don't have much in the way of defense aside from ECM. If a Scorp pilot doesn't know what type of ship his opponent is flying, he won't likely jam it, and all he'll have is a dead Scorp for his trouble. And if the enemy has ECCM, he's also likely to die.
F'nog	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:22:00 - [10] Edited by: F'nog on 29/11/2004 05:27:14 Caldari ships are the easiest in the beginning, but an experienced pilot can use any race's ships, except maybe Minmatar, who need a lot of love, equally as well, and often times better. With a little training, you can become very deadly with almost any ship in the game. You just have to know what each one's strengths and weaknesses are. If one knows what one is doing, any equal level ship can easily survive against its Caldari counterpart, since they can do a lot of damage, but don't have much in the way of defense aside from ECM. If a Scorp pilot doesn't know what type of ship his opponent is flying, he won't likely jam it, and all he'll have is a dead Scorp for his trouble. And if the enemy has ECCM, he's also likely to die.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:24:00 - [11] Role playing does not mean faction balancing. The balancing requirements of a role playing game isn't the same as that of a real strategy game where racial balance is a very delicae issue. In a role playing game, racial distinction is more important than so called racial balancing. In a game like EVE, racial balancing becomes moot when you can acquire and train for every ship and weapon without any inherent built in racial bonus on your character. You are not stuck to using Caldari ships even if you're Caldari. So yes, the Caldari reigns in PvP, because they suck in about everything else. Minmatar is a sort of general purpose race, good at everything, master of nothing but still better than Caldari in other categories. Minnies aer also the speed specialists. Amarr specializes in brute strength and health points, and are the best for NPC hunting. Gallente is sort of a drone specialist and is the best in mining. What's really more important in a role playing game like EVE, is achieving category balancing. This means frigates vs. battleships vs. cruisers, or projectiles vs. lasers vs. hybrids vs. missiles. You cannot have a situation where one category of ship becomes too predominant where everyone has to be in a battleship to PvP for example, or one weapons type becoming too predominant where for example, a Megathron does more damage with a tachyon laser than with its blasters. Having said this, CCP has only partially achieve category balancing, and this remains a work in progress. This is often due to introduction of new items like tech 2 and new systems like the tracking modifications. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:24:00 - [12] Role playing does not mean faction balancing. The balancing requirements of a role playing game isn't the same as that of a real strategy game where racial balance is a very delicae issue. In a role playing game, racial distinction is more important than so called racial balancing. In a game like EVE, racial balancing becomes moot when you can acquire and train for every ship and weapon without any inherent built in racial bonus on your character. You are not stuck to using Caldari ships even if you're Caldari. So yes, the Caldari reigns in PvP, because they suck in about everything else. Minmatar is a sort of general purpose race, good at everything, master of nothing but still better than Caldari in other categories. Minnies aer also the speed specialists. Amarr specializes in brute strength and health points, and are the best for NPC hunting. Gallente is sort of a drone specialist and is the best in mining. What's really more important in a role playing game like EVE, is achieving category balancing. This means frigates vs. battleships vs. cruisers, or projectiles vs. lasers vs. hybrids vs. missiles. You cannot have a situation where one category of ship becomes too predominant where everyone has to be in a battleship to PvP for example, or one weapons type becoming too predominant where for example, a Megathron does more damage with a tachyon laser than with its blasters. Having said this, CCP has only partially achieve category balancing, and this remains a work in progress. This is often due to introduction of new items like tech 2 and new systems like the tracking modifications. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:26:00 - [13] BTW it's not because I'm getting owned. I don't think I've ever lost a 1v1 fair fight. Makes me realize how many little-chicken-babies there are in EvE, players than never enter a fight that isn't a sure win. cough DirtyDeedsCorp cough I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:26:00 - [14] BTW it's not because I'm getting owned. I don't think I've ever lost a 1v1 fair fight. Makes me realize how many little-chicken-babies there are in EvE, players than never enter a fight that isn't a sure win. cough DirtyDeedsCorp cough I love x-mas :D
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:31:00 - [15] Every strong point has its backsides. Missiles (Caldari!) do not impact instantly and have a max speed. Guns do not. Just to name 1 example. Its fine the way it is. Caldari got nerved enough by the cap relay stuff.
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:31:00 - [16] Every strong point has its backsides. Missiles (Caldari!) do not impact instantly and have a max speed. Guns do not. Just to name 1 example. Its fine the way it is. Caldari got nerved enough by the cap relay stuff.
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:32:00 - [17] I guess you need to eat the grass on the other side of the road to know that It's crap. I love x-mas :D
Mishima	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:32:00 - [18] I guess you need to eat the grass on the other side of the road to know that It's crap. I love x-mas :D
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:43:00 - [19] every ship that got HP, and not 99% dmg resistance acros the board (cough polaris cough) is destryable what else do you need? -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:43:00 - [20] every ship that got HP, and not 99% dmg resistance acros the board (cough polaris cough) is destryable what else do you need? -------------------------------------------
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:45:00 - [21] while we are at missiles... Missiles hate Warp... either the enemy warps away before your waves reach him, leaving you with many useless dots of light flying around aimlessly.. (hell .. at least you get some pretty pictures for the moeny you just lost) or, if a turret user fights you, he might force YOU to warp out before your missiles hit him.... and you know what hten happens? hell laugh, cause as soon as you are out, your missiles wont do anything anymore.... this way, you even wont see the nice dots of light... ---- Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
Manfred Doomhammer	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:45:00 - [22] while we are at missiles... Missiles hate Warp... either the enemy warps away before your waves reach him, leaving you with many useless dots of light flying around aimlessly.. (hell .. at least you get some pretty pictures for the moeny you just lost) or, if a turret user fights you, he might force YOU to warp out before your missiles hit him.... and you know what hten happens? hell laugh, cause as soon as you are out, your missiles wont do anything anymore.... this way, you even wont see the nice dots of light... ---- Manfred Doomhammer Fleet Admiral CEO ShadowTec Inc.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer while we are at missiles... Missiles hate Warp... either the enemy warps away before your waves reach him, leaving you with many useless dots of light flying around aimlessly.. (hell .. at least you get some pretty pictures for the moeny you just lost) or, if a turret user fights you, he might force YOU to warp out before your missiles hit him.... and you know what hten happens? hell laugh, cause as soon as you are out, your missiles wont do anything anymore.... this way, you even wont see the nice dots of light... in summary: Missiles h8t Fleetbattles -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Manfred Doomhammer while we are at missiles... Missiles hate Warp... either the enemy warps away before your waves reach him, leaving you with many useless dots of light flying around aimlessly.. (hell .. at least you get some pretty pictures for the moeny you just lost) or, if a turret user fights you, he might force YOU to warp out before your missiles hit him.... and you know what hten happens? hell laugh, cause as soon as you are out, your missiles wont do anything anymore.... this way, you even wont see the nice dots of light... in summary: Missiles h8t Fleetbattles -------------------------------------------
Gortex	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:53:00 - [25] Hey Siddy, Whats your setup on your Tempest, I have one and still trying to work out the bugs in my setup.
Gortex	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:53:00 - [26] Hey Siddy, Whats your setup on your Tempest, I have one and still trying to work out the bugs in my setup.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:55:00 - [27] Imo it would be better if people that have only played for 2 months didn't suggest random "balance fixes". Only things that need fixing now is guns. 1) Nerf mega pulse's damage, range, or cap - either, not all. 2) Boost 1400's tracking. Thats about it as far as battleships go really. Everything else is fairly balanced atm imo.
Negotiator	Posted - 2004.11.29 05:55:00 - [28] Imo it would be better if people that have only played for 2 months didn't suggest random "balance fixes". Only things that need fixing now is guns. 1) Nerf mega pulse's damage, range, or cap - either, not all. 2) Boost 1400's tracking. Thats about it as far as battleships go really. Everything else is fairly balanced atm imo.
Pandora Panda	Posted - 2004.11.29 06:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Negotiator Imo it would be better if people that have only played for 2 months didn't suggest random "balance fixes". Only things that need fixing now is guns. 1) Nerf mega pulse's damage, range, or cap - either, not all. 2) Boost 1400's tracking. Thats about it as far as battleships go really. Everything else is fairly balanced atm imo. I would argue that missiles need some sort of balancing against smaller ships - theyre far too effective currently. Other then that, a couple slight tweaks, perhaps. Lower the cap use of hybrids a little and get rid of cap use on projectiles alltogether. Aside from the excessive effectiveness of missiles on smaller ships, I'd say eve is pretty balanced atm. (Making missiles cheaper and more effective was really unneeded though) -------------------------------------------- CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003
Pandora Panda	Posted - 2004.11.29 06:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Negotiator Imo it would be better if people that have only played for 2 months didn't suggest random "balance fixes". Only things that need fixing now is guns. 1) Nerf mega pulse's damage, range, or cap - either, not all. 2) Boost 1400's tracking. Thats about it as far as battleships go really. Everything else is fairly balanced atm imo. I would argue that missiles need some sort of balancing against smaller ships - theyre far too effective currently. Other then that, a couple slight tweaks, perhaps. Lower the cap use of hybrids a little and get rid of cap use on projectiles alltogether. Aside from the excessive effectiveness of missiles on smaller ships, I'd say eve is pretty balanced atm. (Making missiles cheaper and more effective was really unneeded though) -------------------------------------------- CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003

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