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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.03.13 16:26:00 -
[31]
I believe a nanofiber internal structure is better for avoiding good gatecamps than inertia stabilizers, especially those with fast locking ships.
The reason is that with a nanofiber II, you get a -15.8% bonus to inertia (good). You aldo get a 9.4% speed boost (also good).
With an inertia stabilizer II you get a -20% bonus to inertia (very good), but no speed bonus (bad) and you dramatically increase your signature radius (very bad).
Try this: Open the fitting window, & watch the sig radius expand as you add each inertial stabilizer. You can calculate how long any particular ship (Taranis? Dramiel?) will take to lock you, with the numbers from the fitting window.
The additional speed is useful, as it makes it somewhat harder to lock you, or enables you to more quickly mwd back to the gate; but, not dramatically increasing your sig radius makes it much harder to lock you.
If someone knows the math, or can explain why this is wrong, I would appreciate it. So far, have never lost my Viator (blockade runner) to any gatecamp, whether losec or 0.0.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.13 17:54:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Mutnin
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Mutnin
With the advent of cheaper rigs, it can be next to impossible to get 99.99% of all ships past a well organized gate camp. Ships now have the possibility to insta lock even interceptors with the right rigs.
Meaning if you run into a well set up camp there is little if no chance that you will escape, unless you have the HP to get back to the gate.
Hahaha oh wow. You are so wrong on this point.
You have either mis-read my post, or you have never ran into some of the lovely insta locking T3's. Hell it doesn't even have to be a T3..
Lark knows what he's talking about, you apparently don't.
BTW, rig changes didn't make some ceptors catchable (with dedicated setups and some luck, and mostly just the less nimble/ plate setups anyway), the agility nerf did. And it's a good thing...
TBH getting past gatecamps is not impossible, especially in empire. AFAIK most (regular) ships still stand a good chance with a cloak fitted, and for any cov- ops cloakers it's trivial. Unless the camp has an organized gang with specialized instalocking Minnie & Gallente Recons/T3's, even many non- cloakfitted faster ships can just burn to a celestial in a good direction and warp away (faster cruiser hulls too). Also, most sub-BS (and some BS) can survive a reapproach unless the camp is very big.
Of course most of these techniques need to be executed properly so if you're very new (or bad) and don't know all the tricks involved you're out of luck I guess... 
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KWyz
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Posted - 2010.03.13 22:31:00 -
[33]
Interesting...in my travel fit, it takes me something like 5 seconds to get back to the gate in one mwd pulse.
That makes me feel somewhat better,and i'll also look into those nanos.
Thank you for your help.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.14 00:52:00 -
[34]
meta 4 local istab have a smaller sig bloom than T2, but same agility bonus.
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Mutnin
Amarr
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.14 02:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Raimo
You have either mis-read my post, or you have never ran into some of the lovely insta locking T3's. Hell it doesn't even have to be a T3..
Lark knows what he's talking about, you apparently don't.
BTW, rig changes didn't make some ceptors catchable (with dedicated setups and some luck, and mostly just the less nimble/ plate setups anyway), the agility nerf did. And it's a good thing...
TBH getting past gatecamps is not impossible, especially in empire. AFAIK most (regular) ships still stand a good chance with a cloak fitted, and for any cov- ops cloakers it's trivial. Unless the camp has an organized gang with specialized instalocking Minnie & Gallente Recons/T3's, even many non- cloakfitted faster ships can just burn to a celestial in a good direction and warp away (faster cruiser hulls too). Also, most sub-BS (and some BS) can survive a reapproach unless the camp is very big.
Of course most of these techniques need to be executed properly so if you're very new (or bad) and don't know all the tricks involved you're out of luck I guess...
I didn't say that there was "NO" ships that could get by them. I said Most or more specifically 99.9% of all ships will have problems.
Sure you can design a ship or use specific fits, to get past these kinds of gate camps, however, with most fits a normal person will be flying for solo or small gang roaming will not have this ability.
I'm not saying it "can't" be done I'm saying they will catch just about anyone that comes through their camps when using these tailored fits for insta locking. I also didn't say it was something new. I said with the ability to fit cheap rigs there are a lot more of these ships around.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.03.14 03:29:00 -
[36]
log off and on till you are in safe spot away from gate
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Kingwood
Amarr
Black Fax Attack
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:09:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Kingwood on 15/03/2010 13:12:11
Overloaded MWD and ECM drones (if you carry them).
I never bother to check for a possible Lowsec Gatecamp when I'm roaming in a Cruiser or a fast BC like a Hurricane, as I'm pretty sure to always manage to get away. The only dangerous gatecamp is one with a Curse/Arazu/Lachesis/Rapier/Huginn and enough mates with them. In that case I'd head towards the gate with overloaded MWD.
In all other cases:
1. BS gatecamp: Laugh and burn away
2. BC gatecamp: Laugh and burn away, most are set up to tank sentries and might be missing MWDs. Most should not be able to keep up with you in a Hurricane, and the ones who can you should be able to draw off the main group and engage since they will also be taking sentries (if you ain't flashy). Your judgement.
3. Cruiser gatecamp: Engage. 
4. Mixed gatecamp: Most dangerous, but also most rewarding. Worth engaging if you think you think you can get away or can trade your insurable BC/Cruiser for a HAC or Recon. (El-oh-el at Vagas tackling you under sentries and then not able to keep range)
Tl;dr: No need to fear most lowsec gatecamps if you're roaming in a Cruiser/fast BC and have MWD fitted (need overheat skill though)
Edit: Ofc there are also competent gatecamps which you just won't manage to get away from, but I've never run into one the last year.
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Joe Censored
Unknown-Entity
Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.18 02:01:00 -
[38]
1) Covert ops cloaked ship - If you practice timing engaging warp followed by hitting the cov ops cloak, it should be next to impossible to lock you for even a frigate
2) Use a scout - Don't fly ships vulnerable to gate camps through a gate that is commonly used as a camping spot unless you already know what is on the other side lol! Use an alt, or a friend
3) Warp stab it up - You can fit your ship with all warp stabs, which is hilarious on kill mails when it doesn't work, but will get you out of many sticky low sec situations if you ignore 1 & 2. Note that in 0.0 they are far less effective due to bubbles being so common.
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.03.18 03:46:00 -
[39]
The real question is: Should one person, regardless of effort put in, be able to reliably avoid being killed by 8 people exerting effort on making them dead?
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.03.18 10:01:00 -
[40]
A competently flown covops ship is 99% safe from gatecampers in lowsec unless they happen to smartbomb you as you land on the exit or you lag out at a critical moment. If you cloak the second you break your gatecloak, then you're recloaked by the time you've shown up on the other guy's overview, you'll flash up on his screen for a second but will be gone again before his client catches up (never mind the time taken for the human brain to process and respond to your appearance).
You can get caught out by ships or other objects preventing you from cloaking if you happen to materialise in the wrong spot, but that's mostly down to luck.
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Tarhim
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.18 10:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
The real question is: Should one person, regardless of effort put in, be able to reliably avoid being killed by 8 people exerting effort on making them dead?
The real obvious answer: yes.
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trivit
Caldari
The Exiled Ones
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: chatgris
Uh, what?
A properly piloted covop cloak capable ship can ALWAYS escape a lowsec gate camp.
I would have to disagree. I was of the same thought process until a couple days ago. I typically used a buzzard for running around. Nanos, I-stabs, and a covert ops cloak. While warping TO a gate, as soon as I slowed out of warp, bombs everywhere. I was never locked and it took two impacts to smoke my buzzard. I was warped to zero, but they just dropped bombs as soon as they saw a ship. Very clever actually. I had never seen this, or heard much of folks doing it. Fantastic way to rack up some killmails.
Aside from this rare occasion, it is very difficult to be caught in a typical gate camp.
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Voodoo Ido
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Posted - 2010.03.20 13:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: trivit
Originally by: chatgris
Uh, what?
A properly piloted covop cloak capable ship can ALWAYS escape a lowsec gate camp.
I would have to disagree. I was of the same thought process until a couple days ago. I typically used a buzzard for running around. Nanos, I-stabs, and a covert ops cloak. While warping TO a gate, as soon as I slowed out of warp, bombs everywhere. I was never locked and it took two impacts to smoke my buzzard. I was warped to zero, but they just dropped bombs as soon as they saw a ship. Very clever actually. I had never seen this, or heard much of folks doing it. Fantastic way to rack up some killmails.
Aside from this rare occasion, it is very difficult to be caught in a typical gate camp.
Welcome to the world of "disco" smart-bomb camps. Nothing new. The idea is to catch all the small, fast, minimal-tank stuff that people use to roam around with impunity. Lots of pods, shuttles, and cov-ops die this way.
If you can trade some of that agility for a few fitting mods and squeeze on a medium shield extender along with the standard cov-ops cloak + mwd, you should have enough buffer to absorb a few hits from smart-bombs and improve your chances of getting through the gate in one piece.
As for getting through gate-camps in larger stuff without cov-ops cloak, especially if you have to deal with fast-locking intys and such (i.e. : Faction Warfare, etc.), the cloak + mwd trick can greatly improve your chances and allows *you* to choose the fight, rather than being limited to either fighting it out or making an *attempt* at escape.
Yes, you sacrifice a hi-slot and lose some locking time. It may be worth it for certain individuals.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2010.03.20 14:38:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
The real question is: Should one person, regardless of effort put in, be able to reliably avoid being killed by 8 people exerting effort on making them dead?
lol
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Krak Torr
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Posted - 2010.03.20 22:16:00 -
[45]
Reinforced bulkheads reduce top speed and give an inertia boost. Do they help you enter warp more quickly?
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.03.22 10:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Krak Torr
Reinforced bulkheads reduce top speed and give an inertia boost. Do they help you enter warp more quickly?
Top speed doesn't have anything to do with align time. For two ships with same align times but different top speeds, both will enter warp at the same time however faster one will be farther than the slower ship when they enter warp.
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2010.03.22 18:58:00 -
[47]
If you havn't already, switch on your session change timer ( option in the escape screen ).
This shows a little countdown timer in the top left of your screen and tells you how long you have left on your session timer.
If you need to burn back to the gate or may need to , do not start moving until the session change timer has expired. This way you will be guaranteed to jump when you hit the gate rather than bouncing back off and dying because you cant jump yet.
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KWyz
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Posted - 2010.03.23 11:46:00 -
[48]
Well, after spending some time gatecamping myself, i've managed to notice that
1. It is impossible to lock a ship that has just jumped into the system and activated its covops cloak right after breaking its gate cloak
2. Even if the said ship is decloaked, it takes somewhere between 1 to 2 seconds for it to become lockable. I have seen plenty of recon ships getting swarmed with interceptors, only to simply warp away right after being decloaked. This also makes me think that accurately timed mwd+cloak tricks are teh stuff.
3. The only real counter to these things is getting uncloaked right off the bat when materialising off the gate. That's pure bad luck and basically depends on how much the campers are willing to invest in the camp. This goes from something as cheesy as having all drone ships with dones orbiting to carriers doing the same thing(altough why they wouldn't just outright fit smartbombs to blow up everything coming through is a mystery)
4. Covops makes you safe in most ocasions, Tech 3 ships with interdiction nullifiers basically create the same premises in 0.0 for themselves as in low-sec. I've tested the device myself repeatedly with the help of dictors,hics and all sorts of tech 1 and 2 bubbles. They have no effect whatsoever on them.
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