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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.13 06:09:00 -
[1]
What it is: A tool to help calculate the loot gained from doing group missions, anomalies, belt ratting, etc. and help you divide it up in a way that is fair to all those in the fleet.
Alright, I actually put some thought into this, created a mock-up with what I would like to see/what I think would be useful (please ignore any spelling errors you find in it). Unfortunately I'm far from being a programmer and have no hope of tackling a job like this. However this is something that I think the entire community would benefit from, and something I know I would use on a daily basis. To be honest I'm surprised nobody made one as soon as loot logging was introduced.
Here is the mock up of the project http://www.ch3mic4lwarfare.com/lootlog/
That will pretty much explain it all, and I'm much better with visuals than with words, trying to stumble though 3 pages of text covering what I would like to see would be horrible. Of course it wouldn't matter if something was redesigned completely as long as the idea remained the same.
This would probably work even better as a plug-in for a program like Eve-MEEP, EVEHQ, or EVE Mentat as they already have a lot of the resources available (Characters API, reprocessing formulas, etc.) and designing the entire program from the ground up wouldn't be necessary.
So there it is. It goes without saying that I don't expect anyone to jump up and make this for me because I think it's a good idea. However I'm hoping that one of the 3rd party developers out there will see this as worthy of his attention and time.
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Xeross155
Minmatar
Fusion Death Inc.
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.03.13 11:21:00 -
[2]
API is tricky as it caches for an hour afaik. Isn't there a way to copy the item names (Or IDs) into the clipboard, just as you can drag em to the chat ?
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Xeross' ventures into EVE |
BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.13 18:15:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Xeross155
API is tricky as it caches for an hour afaik. Isn't there a way to copy the item names (Or IDs) into the clipboard, just as you can drag em to the chat ?
Sorry, I don't really understand the relevance of your question. The only thing you would need the API for in my suggested version would be getting reprocessing skills, and even those you could put in manually. Of course none of this really exists yet, so it would all depend on if/how someone else implemented it.
What names/ID's are you talking about? Like the names/ID's of the loot collected, or for your fleet members?
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.14 00:25:00 -
[4]
Apparently some have not seen the exported loot log file, so don't really know what I'm talking about. Here's an example...
http://www.ch3mic4lwarfare.com/lootlog/Loot - 2010.02.27 00.39.07.txt
It comes out in that exact format (tab separated .txt file) in your Fleetlogs directory.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.14 23:28:00 -
[5]
Loot logger needs some improvements before anyone is likely to invest time in writing an app for it.
As it stands things are counted twice and logs are lost on disconnect.
If the details were on the server with API access rather then fragmented across clients it might become usable.
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.15 07:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Loot logger needs some improvements before anyone is likely to invest time in writing an app for it.
As it stands things are counted twice and logs are lost on disconnect.
If the details were on the server with API access rather then fragmented across clients it might become usable.
I've never had problems with it, sure it logs some things you don't want to (like if you pick up some gear from a POS) and even if it logged somethings twice then just uncheck it, a quick scan and your eyes are usually able to catch matching lines (or maybe it's just me, too used to looking at eve spreadsheets).
I can see how it could be lost for some users on disconnect, but as long as your savager doesn't, this would be fine, again, never been an issue for me. Users could solve this by exporting at the end of every mission, to minimize lost data. As long as they don't disconnect the just use the latest one at the end of the day.
All in all I haven't seen most of these problems your mentioning, maybe I'm just lucky, but I think the loot logs are 100x better than the combat logs, which other than "Lookie how much damage I did to that rat!" really don't show anything valuable, like weapon type or range, and people have written programs to parse that.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.15 17:03:00 -
[7]
As long as "Loot logging" is in fact only "Loot tracking", without actual logging (to disk), any discussion on the matter is pointless.
--
Thanks CCP for cu |
BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.16 05:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
As long as "Loot logging" is in fact only "Loot tracking", without actual logging (to disk), any discussion on the matter is pointless.
What do you mean, without actual logging to disk? You export the file and there is the log, tab separated format.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.16 07:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: BeanBagKing
Originally by: Tonto Auri
As long as "Loot logging" is in fact only "Loot tracking", without actual logging (to disk), any discussion on the matter is pointless.
What do you mean, without actual logging to disk? You export the file and there is the log, tab separated format.
If you don't export it's not there and never will be.
Too much potential for lost or duplicate data.
The systems young and probably the wrong implementation, which means everyone is sitting on the fence waiting to see it improved.
When it becomes usable with no double counting cans (or source of item specified), and logs not lost on disconnect, it will likely be used more widely.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.16 09:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 16/03/2010 09:32:45
Originally by: BeanBagKing
Originally by: Tonto Auri
As long as "Loot logging" is in fact only "Loot tracking", without actual logging (to disk), any discussion on the matter is pointless.
What do you mean, without actual logging to disk? You export the file and there is the log, tab separated format.
I mean exactly "logging" - lookup the meaning of the word in google.
As for example - i was in the fleet of myself with the sole intention of logging everything I'm looting/salvaging(especially salvaging!) and then to create some weighted scales to see real outcome of my efforts. Bah, I got a disconnect, client collapsed (even I have it specifically set to not do that!), all "logging" is lost... Now, meaning of a "feature"? Null.
Oh, and when we're at it, the loot log missing the mandatory column: where is the item originating from? Then we'll be able to distinct double-looted items with a degree of certainty. (And if it would differentiate "Loot container" from "Jettisoned Container", that would be almost 100% precision).
--
Thanks CCP for cu |
Salizar Amolkshue
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Posted - 2010.03.17 20:33:00 -
[11]
You mean like this? http://evelootlog.somee.com
I've been working on that off and on for the last few months. I was curious just what I was making in the "loot and salvage" part of my missions. Your post prompted me to find a free web-host and upload it.
I haven't tried it in the IGB yet, but it doesn't do anything special so I imagine it will work. There is no client side scripting at all on the page.
If you try it out, let me know if you like it :)
-Sal
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BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.18 06:44:00 -
[12]
Edited by: BeanBagKing on 18/03/2010 06:44:49
Aye, I love it :) I really hate to start my post off with criticism of it, especially since it is almost exactly what I'm looking for, but first thing I noticed is it returns a value of 0.00 ISK for almost all the sleeper loot (try my test log).
Please don't take this negatively though! I'm glad someone is working on this feature, even if, as suggested by others here, it has it's flaws. I still find it helpful and I'm glad someone else does too.
Thanks!
Edit: If you ever find that your free hosting isn't working out for you for any reason let me know, I have paid hosting and I'd be happy to host such a tool for you.
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Salizar Amolkshue
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Posted - 2010.03.18 14:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Salizar Amolkshue on 18/03/2010 14:06:40
Originally by: BeanBagKing
first thing I noticed is it returns a value of 0.00 ISK for almost all the sleeper loot (try my test log).
Please don't take this negatively though! I'm glad someone is working on this feature, even if, as suggested by others here, it has it's flaws. I still find it helpful and I'm glad someone else does too.
No, no, criticism that I can use is good.
The answer is simple though, I didn't include sleeper loot in the items database. In an effort to keep the DB size down I only took a subset of the items that are in the Eve data dump, I tried to pick out the items that were most likely to be dropped as loot. I simply forgot the sleeper items. I'll add them to the database as soon as I can.
I'll keep the offer for hosting in mind. The bandwidth restrictions for the free hosting are fairly severe. Thanks for the offer.
-Sal
Edit: Just checked my email, don't see anything from you with a test log attached... Where can I find it? |
BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
The Ascendent Dominion
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Posted - 2010.03.18 20:20:00 -
[14]
It's linked above, 4th post down, I'll copy/paste it here for you though.
http://www.ch3mic4lwarfare.com/lootlog/Loot - 2010.02.27 00.39.07.txt |
Ix Forres
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.03.18 20:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Loot logger needs some improvements before anyone is likely to invest time in writing an app for it.
As it stands things are counted twice and logs are lost on disconnect.
If the details were on the server with API access rather then fragmented across clients it might become usable.
This.
We have loot log parsing support in EVE Metrics, just not publicly usable because we've never had demand to use it. Everyone is waiting on the log system to become less useless (ie everyone ingame anywhere in the world shares their loot log and all their actions with anyone else regardless of location) or the logs to be done server-side and made available on the API. |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.18 23:24:00 -
[16]
The "source of item" col would make a big difference even with the current implementation that breaks when you disconnect.
Currently the only field that is usable to categorise things is the character name.
For example a jetcan mining op would be possible with loot logging only if each character name had a specific job and only performed that job.
So if a character defined as a "hauler" in your script picks something up then it can be excluded from a double count as you know they aren't a miner.
Problems arise however when that character docks their Orca and returns in a Hulk, now which ore do you count and which do you exclude? You can't know.
With a source col the hauling could be excluded on the basis that it was picked up from a can.
With logging being in memory and lost on disconnect you'd also need an interface for multiple gang members to upload their exports.
These exports would then need to be merged and duplicates removed to get the full original log before disconnects.
Too many holes and too cumbersome....
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baktul
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Posted - 2010.03.18 23:43:00 -
[17]
@Salizar... you mentioned free hosting. Google App Engine is actually pretty sweet for free hosting (at least at the present). It was really designed for dynamic content... but it isn't too bad to configure it for static content. I think you get like 1GB up, 1GB down 6.5cpu hours for free. It also is a few steps to get Google's infrastructure to know how to respond to your domain... but hey.. its free. |
Salizar Amolkshue
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Posted - 2010.03.19 19:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BeanBagKing
It's linked above, 4th post down
lol, Thread Comprehension fail...
Ok, I've updated the database to include all of the sleeper items I could find. Let me know if you find any others that are missing their values.
-Sal
@baktul - thanks for the tip. I'll take a look at Google. One of the reasons I picked this particular free host is that they also host silverlight controls, which is actually the whole reason why I have been working on this application. This web version is simply a prototype that I'm using as I work through building a silverlight app... |
Colonel O'Neill
Caldari
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
Enforcers of Serenity
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Posted - 2010.03.23 02:09:00 -
[19]
I started working on something similar to this over winter break 3 months ago. It's a web app that you upload the log file to, it pulls all prices from eve-central (caching in a db so not to hammer their API), then gives you an estimate of the total loot value from that log. Not exactly what you're describing here but close. If there's interest I might have to get around to finishing it.
// Colonel O'Neill |
carmo pereira
the muppets
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Posted - 2010.03.23 17:19:00 -
[20]
someone knows if the source column is going to appear in the loot log file?
carmo
----
Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted, and the problem is I do not know which half
Lord Leverhulme 1851-1925, British founder of Unilever and philanthropist |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.25 00:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: carmo pereira
someone knows if the source column is going to appear in the loot log file?
Give it 3-4 years..... Agile Scrum means no staff will be assigned to it until it becomes an issue again.
Seeing it's a feature that delivers so very little, not many people are interested, chances are it will never have a scrum assigned again.
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carmo pereira
the muppets
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Posted - 2010.03.25 12:20:00 -
[22]
CREATE VIEW lootlog AS
SELET source, itemname, quant, date,
CASE WHEN (ccp change sql view) >=30 THEN 'never'
WHEN (ccp wants) >=0 THEN 'never'
ELSE 'expired' END AS expiration_status
FROM .....
carmo
----
Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted, and the problem is I do not know which half
Lord Leverhulme 1851-1925, British founder of Unilever and philanthropist |
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