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why we do not want a mwd change...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 10:53:00 - [1] Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 10:53:00 - [2] Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started Greetings Grim
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:00:00 - [3] no - let the ccp screw this game to oblivion they are on right course and it will be abaut done when GuildWars come so i can say EvE is crap game and go play it instead -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:00:00 - [4] no - let the ccp screw this game to oblivion they are on right course and it will be abaut done when GuildWars come so i can say EvE is crap game and go play it instead -------------------------------------------
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:05:00 - [5] Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 29/11/2004 11:09:05 Originally by: Grim Vandal Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started You relate mwd to missiles too much. MWD isn't solely a missile defence module. It has other purposes and an agility nerfage would severely gimp usage for purposes such as navigating during combat, killing off many loadouts/tactics which are completely balanced atm. The problem is that with current default ship speeds and distances in eve, you cannot nerf it without gimping every conceivable close range loadout that just wants to get into range and couldn't give a rats ass about missiles. Pain is meant to be felt
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:05:00 - [6] Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 29/11/2004 11:09:05 Originally by: Grim Vandal Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started You relate mwd to missiles too much. MWD isn't solely a missile defence module. It has other purposes and an agility nerfage would severely gimp usage for purposes such as navigating during combat, killing off many loadouts/tactics which are completely balanced atm. The problem is that with current default ship speeds and distances in eve, you cannot nerf it without gimping every conceivable close range loadout that just wants to get into range and couldn't give a rats ass about missiles. Pain is meant to be felt
theRaptor	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:05:00 - [7] When I first started playing EVE I thought the MWD could only move straight ahead. It seemed logical to me seeing how it was based on warp drive. I was shocked when I saw my first MWDing orbiting frigate --------------------------------------------------
theRaptor	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:05:00 - [8] When I first started playing EVE I thought the MWD could only move straight ahead. It seemed logical to me seeing how it was based on warp drive. I was shocked when I saw my first MWDing orbiting frigate --------------------------------------------------
theRaptor	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Siddy no - let the ccp screw this game to oblivion they are on right course and it will be abaut done when GuildWars come so i can say EvE is crap game and go play it instead Can I have your stuff? --------------------------------------------------
theRaptor	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Siddy no - let the ccp screw this game to oblivion they are on right course and it will be abaut done when GuildWars come so i can say EvE is crap game and go play it instead Can I have your stuff? --------------------------------------------------

Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:33:00 - [11] grim, stop playing dev/nerf master it's annoying :( ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:33:00 - [12] grim, stop playing dev/nerf master it's annoying :( ----- ----- -----
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 29/11/2004 11:09:05 Originally by: Grim Vandal Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started You relate mwd to missiles too much. MWD isn't solely a missile defence module. It has other purposes and an agility nerfage would severely gimp usage for purposes such as navigating during combat, killing off many loadouts/tactics which are completely balanced atm. The problem is that with current default ship speeds and distances in eve, you cannot nerf it without gimping every conceivable close range loadout that just wants to get into range and couldn't give a rats ass about missiles. quite honestly you would easily be able to cover the range as fast as now with the mwd changes above... btw I would not call mwds balanced if 99% of the cruisers and frigs have to fit while there only option is to fit an oversized AB instead... is this what you call variety??? is this really, what you call balance? I dont want it to be removed! Just changed it in a way that it is a viable OPTION but not a module I do have to fit. There is no single specialized mwd user out there... cuz 90% of the setups include this module... again is this balanced??? your inty would cover the range as fast as it would nowadays but you would not be able to keep the mwd online while orbiting someone... so actually nothing changes here instead intys get actually boosted... why? cuz a cruise missile like assumed above will not be able to catch your inty while it is in close orbit with NO speed boosting mod!!! tho you could always fit a 1mn AB which would make it as fast as about 1200 m/s. so the tackler wont change... well why would anyone not fit a mwd then? lets get a slower ship eg. our thorax with a 10mn mwd. you in a stabber with a 10mn AB (+100%) boost. the point is now the stabber SHOULD have a chance to evade the thorax... eg. the thorax is 30k away from the stabber... the thorax fires up his mwd... the stabber fires up the AB (+100%)... now the stabber approaches the thorax at an angle of 90¦ in this case the thorax will fail to get close to the stabber... cuz the thorax can NOT turn while his mwd is active. now exactly this will lead to people think twice before they either fit an AB or mwd... and this is what I call balance... all you close range guys are going to flame me now . But honestly think twice before you do so. why? lets see AT THE MOMENT we have the following situation: if I would be in a moa with 250mm rails and NO mwd and NO AB. you are in a blasterrax with an mwd... the blasterrax will definately win... but honestly if I really would be in a moa I would fit a mwd myself well... yah right, I would fit one as well.. suprise... suprise... and you will not catch me with my changes a few less people will fit the mwd... and therefor you will have at least a chance to catch the moa... while of course if the moa would fit a mwd it would still be able to evade the thorax... so nothing changes if both fit a mwd... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Juan Andalusian Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 29/11/2004 11:09:05 Originally by: Grim Vandal Edited by: Grim Vandal on 29/11/2004 10:55:47 I noticed that the majority of the playerbase does not feel like this module needs to be further changed... I would like to hear the pros and cons of whatever change you have in mind for this module... First of lets assume that missiles "are" changed and you do not need a mwd anymore to evade them. And that normal sized ABs got boosted to around + 100% with a stacking penalty included for them. So the idea is: give the mwd NO signature penalty but instead give it an agility penalty so you can only use it to move straight forward. Vote YES or NO and state your reason for your vote. now lets get this started You relate mwd to missiles too much. MWD isn't solely a missile defence module. It has other purposes and an agility nerfage would severely gimp usage for purposes such as navigating during combat, killing off many loadouts/tactics which are completely balanced atm. The problem is that with current default ship speeds and distances in eve, you cannot nerf it without gimping every conceivable close range loadout that just wants to get into range and couldn't give a rats ass about missiles. quite honestly you would easily be able to cover the range as fast as now with the mwd changes above... btw I would not call mwds balanced if 99% of the cruisers and frigs have to fit while there only option is to fit an oversized AB instead... is this what you call variety??? is this really, what you call balance? I dont want it to be removed! Just changed it in a way that it is a viable OPTION but not a module I do have to fit. There is no single specialized mwd user out there... cuz 90% of the setups include this module... again is this balanced??? your inty would cover the range as fast as it would nowadays but you would not be able to keep the mwd online while orbiting someone... so actually nothing changes here instead intys get actually boosted... why? cuz a cruise missile like assumed above will not be able to catch your inty while it is in close orbit with NO speed boosting mod!!! tho you could always fit a 1mn AB which would make it as fast as about 1200 m/s. so the tackler wont change... well why would anyone not fit a mwd then? lets get a slower ship eg. our thorax with a 10mn mwd. you in a stabber with a 10mn AB (+100%) boost. the point is now the stabber SHOULD have a chance to evade the thorax... eg. the thorax is 30k away from the stabber... the thorax fires up his mwd... the stabber fires up the AB (+100%)... now the stabber approaches the thorax at an angle of 90¦ in this case the thorax will fail to get close to the stabber... cuz the thorax can NOT turn while his mwd is active. now exactly this will lead to people think twice before they either fit an AB or mwd... and this is what I call balance... all you close range guys are going to flame me now . But honestly think twice before you do so. why? lets see AT THE MOMENT we have the following situation: if I would be in a moa with 250mm rails and NO mwd and NO AB. you are in a blasterrax with an mwd... the blasterrax will definately win... but honestly if I really would be in a moa I would fit a mwd myself well... yah right, I would fit one as well.. suprise... suprise... and you will not catch me with my changes a few less people will fit the mwd... and therefor you will have at least a chance to catch the moa... while of course if the moa would fit a mwd it would still be able to evade the thorax... so nothing changes if both fit a mwd... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Vampire Blade grim, stop playing dev/nerf master it's annoying :( well this is a simple vote... the point is if people dont want it to be changed, why would the devs change it? but lets say if 80% of the people vote YAY shouldnt the devs consider to change the mwd? and it seems to me that too many people think that this module is fine as it is... I want to know how many people share either my opinion or another... you may noticed that I havent used the word "nerf" a single time except now. Before you think OMG nerf would you plz read this thread first? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Vampire Blade grim, stop playing dev/nerf master it's annoying :( well this is a simple vote... the point is if people dont want it to be changed, why would the devs change it? but lets say if 80% of the people vote YAY shouldnt the devs consider to change the mwd? and it seems to me that too many people think that this module is fine as it is... I want to know how many people share either my opinion or another... you may noticed that I havent used the word "nerf" a single time except now. Before you think OMG nerf would you plz read this thread first? Greetings Grim
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:56:00 - [17] and the point of this simpple vote is? i admire your stubbornes, but i gave up long time ago, i sugjest you do that too - devs never ever look in here anymore -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.11.29 11:56:00 - [18] and the point of this simpple vote is? i admire your stubbornes, but i gave up long time ago, i sugjest you do that too - devs never ever look in here anymore -------------------------------------------
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:01:00 - [19] No MWD should be useable in combat. Stop trying to remove them from it. Things are tough enough for single MWD frigates and interceptors as it is! "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:01:00 - [20] No MWD should be useable in combat. Stop trying to remove them from it. Things are tough enough for single MWD frigates and interceptors as it is! "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:05:00 - [21] Originally by: Maya Rkell No MWD should be useable in combat. Stop trying to remove them from it. Things are tough enough for single MWD frigates and interceptors as it is! they will stay useable in combat k? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Maya Rkell No MWD should be useable in combat. Stop trying to remove them from it. Things are tough enough for single MWD frigates and interceptors as it is! they will stay useable in combat k? Greetings Grim
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Grim Vandal quite honestly you would easily be able to cover the range as fast as now with the mwd changes above... Covering the range isn't the only thing. Considering as well that with a huge agility nerf as you ask for even covering the distance will become a pain in the ass when it comes to ships that can move around at decent speeds or are using mwd themselves. Quote: btw I would not call mwds balanced if 99% of the cruisers and frigs have to fit while there only option is to fit an oversized AB instead... is this what you call variety??? is this really, what you call balance? The flaw lies elsewhere. Just because most, if not all the support craft have to run MWD or Oversized AB that doesn't mean the problem lies with the MWD or Oversized AB. The problem lies with current pvp situation of "If the cruiser or frig ain't fast enough it will DIE". Quote: I dont want it to be removed! Just changed it in a way that it is a viable OPTION but not a module I do have to fit. You need other changes to happen for this... and not only missile changes. Quote: your inty would cover the range as fast as it would nowadays but you would not be able to keep the mwd online while orbiting someone... so actually nothing changes here instead intys get actually boosted... why? cuz a cruise missile like assumed above will not be able to catch your inty while it is in close orbit with NO speed boosting mod!!! tho you could always fit a 1mn AB which would make it as fast as about 1200 m/s. I am a taranis pilot... quite a fanatic one. There is nothing i miss more than the pre great accuracy balancing changes era. Where microwarpdriving while in orbit around the BS was pointless and a needless cap drain. Because 1) your turrets would hit less and 2) missile launch mechanics didn't allow ships launch missiles directly at the target, and torpedoes didn't have the hps to survive small sbombs. Back then you only needed mwd to approach and take evasive manuevers momentarily. However a simple agility nerf isn't a welcome change to the current situation. .... Honestly? i dream of nothing less than being able to replace my MWD with an AB. It would make my style of play at least 50% stronger or more powerful. However a "lets get people to switch from mwd to ab" change is anything but simple... you need to change many things about current pvp mechanics in order to support this as a change with purpose rather than let it become a meaningless nerf. Pain is meant to be felt
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.29 12:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Grim Vandal quite honestly you would easily be able to cover the range as fast as now with the mwd changes above... Covering the range isn't the only thing. Considering as well that with a huge agility nerf as you ask for even covering the distance will become a pain in the ass when it comes to ships that can move around at decent speeds or are using mwd themselves. Quote: btw I would not call mwds balanced if 99% of the cruisers and frigs have to fit while there only option is to fit an oversized AB instead... is this what you call variety??? is this really, what you call balance? The flaw lies elsewhere. Just because most, if not all the support craft have to run MWD or Oversized AB that doesn't mean the problem lies with the MWD or Oversized AB. The problem lies with current pvp situation of "If the cruiser or frig ain't fast enough it will DIE". Quote: I dont want it to be removed! Just changed it in a way that it is a viable OPTION but not a module I do have to fit. You need other changes to happen for this... and not only missile changes. Quote: your inty would cover the range as fast as it would nowadays but you would not be able to keep the mwd online while orbiting someone... so actually nothing changes here instead intys get actually boosted... why? cuz a cruise missile like assumed above will not be able to catch your inty while it is in close orbit with NO speed boosting mod!!! tho you could always fit a 1mn AB which would make it as fast as about 1200 m/s. I am a taranis pilot... quite a fanatic one. There is nothing i miss more than the pre great accuracy balancing changes era. Where microwarpdriving while in orbit around the BS was pointless and a needless cap drain. Because 1) your turrets would hit less and 2) missile launch mechanics didn't allow ships launch missiles directly at the target, and torpedoes didn't have the hps to survive small sbombs. Back then you only needed mwd to approach and take evasive manuevers momentarily. However a simple agility nerf isn't a welcome change to the current situation. .... Honestly? i dream of nothing less than being able to replace my MWD with an AB. It would make my style of play at least 50% stronger or more powerful. However a "lets get people to switch from mwd to ab" change is anything but simple... you need to change many things about current pvp mechanics in order to support this as a change with purpose rather than let it become a meaningless nerf. Pain is meant to be felt
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:22:00 - [25] I vote no to your suggestion. MWDs are fine and balanced. Oversized abs, correct sized abs, and missiles are not.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:22:00 - [26] I vote no to your suggestion. MWDs are fine and balanced. Oversized abs, correct sized abs, and missiles are not.
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:50:00 - [27] I think the Sig penalty is fine, the decreased capacitor sucks...
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:50:00 - [28] I think the Sig penalty is fine, the decreased capacitor sucks...
MatStar	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:56:00 - [29] damnit the mwd is fine as it is, I really wish people would leave it alone. if this ever happened all people would fly is missile boats it does not need changing anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MatStar	Posted - 2004.11.29 13:56:00 - [30] damnit the mwd is fine as it is, I really wish people would leave it alone. if this ever happened all people would fly is missile boats it does not need changing anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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