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DawnTreader
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Posted - 2010.03.15 18:59:00 -
[1]
OK, so I was essentially looking for something a bit meatier than a drake to solo wormholes in. I can't quite fly command ships yet and I'm pretty much all Caldari, shields and missiles. So I thought I'd try the Cerberus HAC.
Looks good, high resists, nippy and gets torn to bits in about half the time my Drake does by sleepers!
I've done my battleclinic, evemon and eft research and it has a 'strong' active tank. You know, the usual. Range is good, can stay away from the NOS'ing easily enough. And the DPS is slightly better than the Drake.
But there's no getting away from it, the tank sucks like an over enthusiastic **** starlet.
What gives?
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dtyk
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Posted - 2010.03.15 19:01:00 -
[2]
For PvE, perhaps yes. For pvp, things like the speed and range matter.
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.03.15 19:02:00 -
[3]
drake is a battlecruiser, cerb is a cruiser. So drake will be better than cerb at almost everything. Almost = 120-230km firing ranges which drake cannot reach but cerb can. Its role is just missile "sniper".
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Kail Storm
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.15 19:19:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: DawnTreader
OK, so I was essentially looking for something a bit meatier than a drake to solo wormholes in. I can't quite fly command ships yet and I'm pretty much all Caldari, shields and missiles. So I thought I'd try the Cerberus HAC.
Looks good, high resists, nippy and gets torn to bits in about half the time my Drake does by sleepers!
I've done my battleclinic, evemon and eft research and it has a 'strong' active tank. You know, the usual. Range is good, can stay away from the NOS'ing easily enough. And the DPS is slightly better than the Drake.
But there's no getting away from it, the tank sucks like an over enthusiastic **** starlet.
What gives?
I dont think the DPS is better at all....Maybe better than a Passive Lol drake
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"If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed"
-Me
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ExplicitViolence
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Posted - 2010.03.15 19:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: ExplicitViolence on 15/03/2010 19:35:21
IMO (as hinted at so far) Drake is best for PVE given your choices.
Where you see a cerb serving much better use than a drake is two places from what I've seen so far.
First, obvious sniper role is obvious. 120-130 is low estimate. You can easily push 150 with modest skills.
Second, a Heavy Assault cerb not only out ranges a HAM drake, it puts out comparable DPS, and has more ehp, more speed.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.03.15 20:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ExplicitViolence
Second, a Heavy Assault cerb not only out ranges a HAM drake, it puts out comparable DPS, and has more ehp,
Not true. A HAM Cerberus can reach up to a little bit less than a typical HAM Drake's DPS (assuming you count the Drake's drone DPS), but will have less than half the Drake's EHP. You just can't fit the Cerberus to rival the Drake's DPS and EHP at the same time.
The Cerberus is better in range and speed though, that's true.
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'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Thirzarr
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Posted - 2010.03.15 21:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The Cerberus is better in range and speed though, that's true.
and range and speed are just lubly if used right... and ebil at the same time! 
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.03.15 21:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Thirzarr
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
The Cerberus is better in range and speed though, that's true.
and range and speed are just lubly if used right... and ebil at the same time!
This.
Drake is a great ship and yes it will be better in most of the situations where you'd be chosing between the two, but when it comes to range (yes, despite the missile naysayers it can be very useful) and in particular needing something speedier and more agile than a BC, the Cerb is a great ship.
_________________________________
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Xious
Caldari
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.03.15 22:10:00 -
[9]
Cerbs > Drake for certain styles of PvP, such as sniper HAC gangs, where range and agility are king.
For PvE, there is no question, obviously, Drake is superior in every shape and form.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
This thread has been cleansed of bodily fluid references.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.03.15 22:49:00 -
[10]
There are things a Cerb can do that a Drake cant do.
Are any of those things worth doing? Probably not.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.15 23:05:00 -
[11]
What gives is that the Cerb can lob 400dps of missiles 250km.
It's also faster and more agile.
It can do a similar trick with assault launchers at 100km
if this doesn't seem useful to you, then it probably isn't.
However if you're prepared to think about your tactics, then you might think of a use for a cruiser that does >sniper BS damage at sniper BS ranges. Even if it does have damage latency.
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Aranis Nax
Minmatar
Minmatar United Freedom Front
The 11th Hour
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Posted - 2010.03.16 01:17:00 -
[12]
30km baco... ham launchers are pretty cool too  .
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DawnTreader
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Posted - 2010.03.16 02:09:00 -
[13]
Thanks for the replies. I think I'll just finally have to get round to that Nighthawk training.
250km missiles? I'd love to hear how you manage that. I bet the hostile would have time to write a short novel before they actually hit.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.03.16 03:04:00 -
[14]
And thats why they usually arent useful.
They are good for chasing people away at long distance if you set them up for it.
They are good at killng frigs if you set them up for it.
If you dont have one of those 2 goals in mind then something else will work better.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2010.03.16 04:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DawnTreader
But there's no getting away from it, the tank sucks like an over enthusiastic **** starlet.
OK, fine, I laughed.
Originally by: DawnTreader
What gives?
WRT PvE, do you have research agents? Ever want access to more as the market fluctuates? (Ok, it's kinda niche. But it can be important, especially if you spend long periods away from the game.)
Nuke L1-L3 with the same Cerb. It's simply a slaughterhouse; don't worry about the low tank numbers. They won't hit you anyway.
[Cerberus, i feel dirty every time i post this]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
[empty high slot]
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
CN lights are actually pretty cheap, but switching to normal missiles wouldn't hurt much. Just orbit at a decent range, kill everything in the room, and get your next mission. Grinding made easy.
(And yeah, if you don't have CN BCUs sitting around, use BCU IIs. Nothing is going to touch you anyway unless you screw up Damsel or some such.)
Unfortunately, that's what you get from the Cerb for PvE. The NH does much better.
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Rip Striker
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Posted - 2010.03.16 06:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xious
Cerbs > Drake for certain styles of PvP, such as sniper HAC gangs, where range and agility are king.
I completely agree.
Originally by: Xious
For PvE, there is no question, obviously, Drake is superior in every shape and form.
It is not obvious at all. When Guristas plexing the Cerb outshines the Drake by alot.
Especially at the high end plexes and anomalies.
This is because the Cerb's tank is so much better in this particular area. Even with fury ammo and a passive shield tank fit, your sig radius is not above 250m. Add an afterburner to this and you will speed/signature tank any kind of plex. Not to mention the inherent large thermal and kinetic resists.
The Drake on the otherhand gets a huge sig radius with fury ammo, 540m. This means you will take alot more damage from incoming missiles. Even if you use regular t1 scourges, your sig radius is bigger than the Cerbs, but then the fury loaded Cerb outdamages the Drake.
Go figure, Cerb has its moments  , one of them is when running Guristas plexes/anomalies.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.03.16 07:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aranis Nax
30km baco... ham launchers are pretty cool too .
They go a bit further than that - 40odd. But IMO the Cerb is too fragile to really pull it off - you're just too close to counter fire.
Originally by: DawnTreader
Thanks for the replies. I think I'll just finally have to get round to that Nighthawk training.
250km missiles? I'd love to hear how you manage that. I bet the hostile would have time to write a short novel before they actually hit.
Heavy launchers, 2 range rigs. Don't forget the sensor boosters :).
And you're sort of right - flight time is 22.5s (or 25s).
But it's not as long as you think either, especially bearing in mind the Cerb hits with full effectiveness at every range from 0-250km. So it's quite viable to 'burn to range' at the start of a fight, and have a damage platform that's hard to shut down.
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Songbird
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Posted - 2010.03.16 11:21:00 -
[18]
ok people , you forget 1 important point , cerberus is a stepping step to tengu. and tengu has the 1000 tank 700 dps set up with t2 modules(+1 cn booster) alone. Tengu moves fast, hits hard and tanks C4 WH sites with ease. LvL 4 missions are just boring with it. Yeah - you could waste time training for the BC 5 skill and make the drake cheap and effective machine both for pve and pvp. Or you could get lvl 5 caldari cruiser and go for the tengu. It's in a class of it's own and a drake would never even come close.
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DawnTreader
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Posted - 2010.03.16 13:53:00 -
[19]
Yeah it is wormhole sites I'm interested in. Got bored of missions a long time ago.
I'm impressed you can solo a class 4 with the Tengu. I can *just* solo a c3 in mine without ever having to warp out.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.16 14:30:00 -
[20]
Someone once said that if you don't know that you need a Cerberus, then you don't need a Cerberus. Conversely, when you do need a Cerberus, you'll be aware that you can't substitute it with any other ship.
As a basic example, if your gang has a Cerberus, then any ewar boats that your opponent has will only persist on the field with your permission.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.03.16 17:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Someone once said that if you don't know that you need a Cerberus, then you don't need a Cerberus. Conversely, when you do need a Cerberus, you'll be aware that you can't substitute it with any other ship.
As a basic example, if your gang has a Cerberus, then any ewar boats that your opponent has will only persist on the field with your permission.
Which is one of the 2 things it is good for.
Its not a bad ship - its just a ship with only 2 narrow niches thats its good at.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2010.03.16 18:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Someone once said that if you don't know that you need a Cerberus, then you don't need a Cerberus. Conversely, when you do need a Cerberus, you'll be aware that you can't substitute it with any other ship.
Which is why most good FCs running a small HAC/BC gang will want 1-2 HM Cerbs/Sniper Eagles with them. Any more would deprive you of shorter range DPS and any less would deprive you of a fabulous tactical capability.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.16 19:03:00 -
[23]
A while ago some Russians were messing about in a certain lowsec system. We knew that we were heavily outnumbered and that they had decent ECM support, but that the rest of their gang was a hodgepodge of BCs etc. So we put 3 RR BS in a belt and offered the fight. They warped in their gang, including a Rook, Falcon and RR Osprey at range. We warped in two Cerbs and a beam Zealot. Thirty seconds later, the Rook, Falcon and Osprey were all dead, and the untackled survivors were fleeing.
That's not a "niche role" to me. You can argue that a Rook will do that job to some extent but with ECM to boot, but it's not a niche role.
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.03.16 19:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Gypsio III
Someone once said that if you don't know that you need a Cerberus, then you don't need a Cerberus. Conversely, when you do need a Cerberus, you'll be aware that you can't substitute it with any other ship.
As a basic example, if your gang has a Cerberus, then any ewar boats that your opponent has will only persist on the field with your permission.
Which is one of the 2 things it is good for.
Its not a bad ship - its just a ship with only 2 narrow niches thats its good at.
Second being "lol hope your frigs can engage at 100km because they wont get any closer than that to us" niche, eh? :)
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.03.16 19:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: James Lyrus
What gives is that the Cerb can lob 400dps of missiles 250km.
It's also faster and more agile.
Ya, but you can go 2-3 jumps away by the time those missiles reach where you shouda been
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2010.03.16 20:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: VanNostrum
Originally by: James Lyrus
What gives is that the Cerb can lob 400dps of missiles 250km.
It's also faster and more agile.
Ya, but you can go 2-3 jumps away by the time those missiles reach where you shouda been
Exactly. A Falcon running away from a Cerb's missiles does almost as bad a job of jamming as a dead one.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
DawnTreader
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Posted - 2010.03.16 23:05:00 -
[27]
All in all, my understanding of the ship and it's role is about 4x better thanks to all of that.
It's almost tempting to make half a dozen different 250km from gate bookmarks and flit around shooting at everything that comes through. But I've a feeling nothing would really stick around and play all that long and the only thing that would really die a death would be my sec status.
Basically; great ship for a gang, solo it may as well be a Caracal.
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