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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 18:57:00 -
[1]
I want to make a comparasion between the boosting bonus of the Cyclone and the hardenening bonus of Ferox.
Cyclone have 5% bonus to shield boosting per level and Ferox have 5% bonus to all shield resistance per level.
Take a situation where your opponent is delivering 100 hp em damage against an unhardenend shield, you have lvl 5 BC skill and a shield booster giving you 80 hp.
After the damage is done you're boosting the shield.
The Cyclone will get 100 hp repaired leaving it right back were it started.
The Ferox on the other hand will only repair 80 hp but his shield hardening bonus made the initial damage 75 which adds up to more shield than it started with.
This in a way gives the Ferox a larger boost then the Cyclone. On top of this it would be as if the Ferox has a 33% larger shield.
The same calculations can obviously be transfered to Brutix/Prophecy.
I dont know if this was intended or not, what do you think?
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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 18:57:00 -
[2]
I want to make a comparasion between the boosting bonus of the Cyclone and the hardenening bonus of Ferox.
Cyclone have 5% bonus to shield boosting per level and Ferox have 5% bonus to all shield resistance per level.
Take a situation where your opponent is delivering 100 hp em damage against an unhardenend shield, you have lvl 5 BC skill and a shield booster giving you 80 hp.
After the damage is done you're boosting the shield.
The Cyclone will get 100 hp repaired leaving it right back were it started.
The Ferox on the other hand will only repair 80 hp but his shield hardening bonus made the initial damage 75 which adds up to more shield than it started with.
This in a way gives the Ferox a larger boost then the Cyclone. On top of this it would be as if the Ferox has a 33% larger shield.
The same calculations can obviously be transfered to Brutix/Prophecy.
I dont know if this was intended or not, what do you think?
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:46:00 -
[3]
I think the Cyclone's bonus is better than the Ferox.
It doesn't matter if you have a 5% resistance bonus per level, even if you have level 5 Battlecruiser skill, you are STILL going to want to put on an EM hardener, so it doesn't save you a slot.
With the Cyclone's +5% shield boosting per level, once you get to say level 4, you can put on a nice named large shield booster, or the tech2 one, and not worry about fitting in a shield amp, thus saving you the CPU of the shield amp and a slot, allowing you to fit more fun things in the mid slots. Or you can go hog wild and put on a shield amp also, with level 4 in Battlecruisers, thats +50% shield boosting. 
So far, I haven't had ANY cpu and/or grid problems with the Cyclone either. Haven't tried the Ferox, but it does have less grid.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:46:00 -
[4]
I think the Cyclone's bonus is better than the Ferox.
It doesn't matter if you have a 5% resistance bonus per level, even if you have level 5 Battlecruiser skill, you are STILL going to want to put on an EM hardener, so it doesn't save you a slot.
With the Cyclone's +5% shield boosting per level, once you get to say level 4, you can put on a nice named large shield booster, or the tech2 one, and not worry about fitting in a shield amp, thus saving you the CPU of the shield amp and a slot, allowing you to fit more fun things in the mid slots. Or you can go hog wild and put on a shield amp also, with level 4 in Battlecruisers, thats +50% shield boosting.
So far, I haven't had ANY cpu and/or grid problems with the Cyclone either. Haven't tried the Ferox, but it does have less grid.
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:07:00 -
[5]
so? you cant compare ships like that, caldari are slow, so tehy tank good(like amarr), minmatar fast=less tank(and less needed due to speed)...
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:07:00 -
[6]
so? you cant compare ships like that, caldari are slow, so tehy tank good(like amarr), minmatar fast=less tank(and less needed due to speed)...
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Theron Gyrow
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 29/11/2004 20:38:19
On the other hand, you _can_ compare bonuses like this, and the bonus to resistances is better in every case. In addition to the better-resistant ship effectively having more shields/armor _and_ better effective shield/armor boosting, the bonus is totally passive; no cap is needed.
Whether other things balance it out is quite another question on which I will not comment here.
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Theron Gyrow
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 29/11/2004 20:38:19
On the other hand, you _can_ compare bonuses like this, and the bonus to resistances is better in every case. In addition to the better-resistant ship effectively having more shields/armor _and_ better effective shield/armor boosting, the bonus is totally passive; no cap is needed.
Whether other things balance it out is quite another question on which I will not comment here.
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Bad'Boy on 29/11/2004 20:44:57
 Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 29/11/2004 20:38:19
On the other hand, you _can_ compare bonuses like this, and the bonus to resistances is better in every case. In addition to the better-resistant ship effectively having more shields/armor _and_ better effective shield/armor boosting, the bonus is totally passive; no cap is needed.
Whether other things balance it out is quite another question on which I will not comment here.
cyclone dont almost need cap to use guns, its faster, and got more firepower....
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bad'Boy on 29/11/2004 20:44:57
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 29/11/2004 20:38:19
On the other hand, you _can_ compare bonuses like this, and the bonus to resistances is better in every case. In addition to the better-resistant ship effectively having more shields/armor _and_ better effective shield/armor boosting, the bonus is totally passive; no cap is needed.
Whether other things balance it out is quite another question on which I will not comment here.
cyclone dont almost need cap to use guns, its faster, and got more firepower....
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:51:00 -
[11]
I like all the BCs. They are all really nice and ship bonuses really don't mean much in the time of Oversized ABs and small guns having better useage than mediums and larges.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:51:00 -
[12]
I like all the BCs. They are all really nice and ship bonuses really don't mean much in the time of Oversized ABs and small guns having better useage than mediums and larges.
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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:55:00 -
[13]
The reason why I wanted to do this comparision was that a corp mate acctually thought that the boosting bonus was as good as the resistance bonus. Alot of people dont realise that the resistance bonus is superior to the boosting bonus.
Whether this is intended to counter for the ships other strength and weakness or not I'm not qualified to answer since I havent tried them all yet.
However the comment about Cyclone having more firepower is not necessarily true. Yes it have more highslots but it also have less mids/lows. If you use one lowslot for damage mods you'll get ~20% better dot on any of the other ships. With 5 turret beeing affected that is the equivalent of 1 turret.
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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 20:55:00 -
[14]
The reason why I wanted to do this comparision was that a corp mate acctually thought that the boosting bonus was as good as the resistance bonus. Alot of people dont realise that the resistance bonus is superior to the boosting bonus.
Whether this is intended to counter for the ships other strength and weakness or not I'm not qualified to answer since I havent tried them all yet.
However the comment about Cyclone having more firepower is not necessarily true. Yes it have more highslots but it also have less mids/lows. If you use one lowslot for damage mods you'll get ~20% better dot on any of the other ships. With 5 turret beeing affected that is the equivalent of 1 turret.
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 21:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Klogger
The reason why I wanted to do this comparision was that a corp mate acctually thought that the boosting bonus was as good as the resistance bonus. Alot of people dont realise that the resistance bonus is superior to the boosting bonus.
Whether this is intended to counter for the ships other strength and weakness or not I'm not qualified to answer since I havent tried them all yet.
However the comment about Cyclone having more firepower is not necessarily true. Yes it have more highslots but it also have less mids/lows. If you use one lowslot for damage mods you'll get ~20% better dot on any of the other ships. With 5 turret beeing affected that is the equivalent of 1 turret.
oh, and its same with Brutix and amarr BC, amarr tank(resistance bonus) brutix offence(boost bonus) , same with Ferox and cyclone, cyclone is better offencive ship so it gets wors tank bonus.......
yes resistance one is better..
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 21:00:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Klogger
The reason why I wanted to do this comparision was that a corp mate acctually thought that the boosting bonus was as good as the resistance bonus. Alot of people dont realise that the resistance bonus is superior to the boosting bonus.
Whether this is intended to counter for the ships other strength and weakness or not I'm not qualified to answer since I havent tried them all yet.
However the comment about Cyclone having more firepower is not necessarily true. Yes it have more highslots but it also have less mids/lows. If you use one lowslot for damage mods you'll get ~20% better dot on any of the other ships. With 5 turret beeing affected that is the equivalent of 1 turret.
oh, and its same with Brutix and amarr BC, amarr tank(resistance bonus) brutix offence(boost bonus) , same with Ferox and cyclone, cyclone is better offencive ship so it gets wors tank bonus.......
yes resistance one is better..
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 21:27:00 -
[17]
As long as we can agree on that resistance bonus is way better than boosting bonus its fine with me, any other discussion should go into a Ferox vs Cylone thread.
Still cant agree that Cyclone has better dot than Ferox tho (if properly setup).
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Klogger
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Posted - 2004.11.29 21:27:00 -
[18]
As long as we can agree on that resistance bonus is way better than boosting bonus its fine with me, any other discussion should go into a Ferox vs Cylone thread.
Still cant agree that Cyclone has better dot than Ferox tho (if properly setup).
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Klogger
As long as we can agree on that resistance bonus is way better than boosting bonus its fine with me, any other discussion should go into a Ferox vs Cylone thread.
Still cant agree that Cyclone has better dot than Ferox tho (if properly setup).
I think they all are good ships. No BC is better than the other really. The prophecy does look a tad stronger in some respects to the others but it has its weaknesses too and a Cyclone, Brutix, or Ferox could take it on if the pilot could think outside the box. But that is for another thread. Leave the bonuses alone. If anything give the brutix 250more drone space and 100 more prgrid. Fix the projectiles as well for the Cyclone. Have a nice day.
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Klogger
As long as we can agree on that resistance bonus is way better than boosting bonus its fine with me, any other discussion should go into a Ferox vs Cylone thread.
Still cant agree that Cyclone has better dot than Ferox tho (if properly setup).
I think they all are good ships. No BC is better than the other really. The prophecy does look a tad stronger in some respects to the others but it has its weaknesses too and a Cyclone, Brutix, or Ferox could take it on if the pilot could think outside the box. But that is for another thread. Leave the bonuses alone. If anything give the brutix 250more drone space and 100 more prgrid. Fix the projectiles as well for the Cyclone. Have a nice day.
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snutt
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:48:00 -
[21]
Read here at the bottom part of the post for more details.
Mess with the best, die like the rest 
Real men structure tank |
snutt
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:48:00 -
[22]
Read here at the bottom part of the post for more details.
Mess with the best, die like the rest
Real men structure tank |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[23]
Brutix powergrid is just fine, it's the CPU that's the issue if you compare to Thorax. On the other hand, Gallente ships tend to run a lot tighter in fitting than any other comparable race and turret in game.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[24]
Brutix powergrid is just fine, it's the CPU that's the issue if you compare to Thorax. On the other hand, Gallente ships tend to run a lot tighter in fitting than any other comparable race and turret in game.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Combat Santa
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Klogger
I want to make a comparasion between the boosting bonus of the Cyclone and the hardenening bonus of Ferox.
Cyclone have 5% bonus to shield boosting per level and Ferox have 5% bonus to all shield resistance per level.
Take a situation where your opponent is delivering 100 hp em damage against an unhardenend shield, you have lvl 5 BC skill and a shield booster giving you 80 hp.
After the damage is done you're boosting the shield.
The Cyclone will get 100 hp repaired leaving it right back were it started.
The Ferox on the other hand will only repair 80 hp but his shield hardening bonus made the initial damage 75 which adds up to more shield than it started with.
This in a way gives the Ferox a larger boost then the Cyclone. On top of this it would be as if the Ferox has a 33% larger shield.
The same calculations can obviously be transfered to Brutix/Prophecy.
I dont know if this was intended or not, what do you think?
What happends if they both put a EM-ward on?
Cyclone then takes 50 damage and boost 100 = +50 shield HP
Ferox only takes 37.5 damage and boost 80 = +42.5 shield HP
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Combat Santa
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Klogger
I want to make a comparasion between the boosting bonus of the Cyclone and the hardenening bonus of Ferox.
Cyclone have 5% bonus to shield boosting per level and Ferox have 5% bonus to all shield resistance per level.
Take a situation where your opponent is delivering 100 hp em damage against an unhardenend shield, you have lvl 5 BC skill and a shield booster giving you 80 hp.
After the damage is done you're boosting the shield.
The Cyclone will get 100 hp repaired leaving it right back were it started.
The Ferox on the other hand will only repair 80 hp but his shield hardening bonus made the initial damage 75 which adds up to more shield than it started with.
This in a way gives the Ferox a larger boost then the Cyclone. On top of this it would be as if the Ferox has a 33% larger shield.
The same calculations can obviously be transfered to Brutix/Prophecy.
I dont know if this was intended or not, what do you think?
What happends if they both put a EM-ward on?
Cyclone then takes 50 damage and boost 100 = +50 shield HP
Ferox only takes 37.5 damage and boost 80 = +42.5 shield HP
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.12.01 03:16:00 -
[27]
I prefer the hardening bonus. It's a bonus that does not need energy.
Currently by accident of design, the BC shield tankers (Ferox, Cyclone) are much preferable over the BC armor tankers (Brutis, Prophecy) because of grid. This despite conventional wisdom about armor tanking vs. shield tanking.
You can fit a large shield boosters on a BC, but you can't fit large armor repairers. That puts you against a BC with a large CL-5 vs. a BC with a medium Acco.
That is a mismatch. Furthermore, the shield tanking BC can grid up with PDUs, while the armor tanking BC ain't going to have that much chances to boost grid after putting armor hardeners, cap relays and warp stabs.
This is who I rank the BCs now.
Ferox
Cyclone
Prophecy
Brutix
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.12.01 03:16:00 -
[28]
I prefer the hardening bonus. It's a bonus that does not need energy.
Currently by accident of design, the BC shield tankers (Ferox, Cyclone) are much preferable over the BC armor tankers (Brutis, Prophecy) because of grid. This despite conventional wisdom about armor tanking vs. shield tanking.
You can fit a large shield boosters on a BC, but you can't fit large armor repairers. That puts you against a BC with a large CL-5 vs. a BC with a medium Acco.
That is a mismatch. Furthermore, the shield tanking BC can grid up with PDUs, while the armor tanking BC ain't going to have that much chances to boost grid after putting armor hardeners, cap relays and warp stabs.
This is who I rank the BCs now.
Ferox
Cyclone
Prophecy
Brutix
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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