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Impel fit to counter the lone suicide ganker?

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Katsu Tokinaga	Posted - 2010.03.16 02:40:00 - [1] So I was suicide ganked in Amarr yesterday...by "accident" apparently. No big news, and just lost a rigged Bestower empty of cargo, cept 3 t1 arkonor mining crystals, and they didn't get much--thinking 2 expanded cargo II's and a 10 mn ab II and a bunch of GSC's...oh well, moving on. I was going to get an impel anyways, due to it being cheaper than an Orca, and being much larger than a Bestower (and comparable in cargo space to an Iteron 5, but with more armor) but now I'm considering going a little more defensive for my trips into Amarr. I was looking at possible gank battleships, and I know I wouldn't be completely safe from suicides, blah, blah, etc., but I figure being able to survive an alpha strike would be a reasonable goal, especially of a Minmatar battleship (was ganked by a Maelstrom to be more exact) fitted with t1 equipment such as 1400 mm Howitzer Is in the highs, and gyrostabilizer I's in the lows, it would be an alpha of about 7200 for an all level 5's pilot in EFT. I'm not quite sure how resists would play into it, but thinking with shield and armor, not counting resists, need at least 7500 HP. So was thinking of fitting: Highs (doesn't matter) Medium: probably doesn't matter, maybe an AB, MWD, or even a cap recharger Lows: [1 Medium Armor Repairer II] [1 400 Rolled Tungsten Plate] (maybe 2) [1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II] maybe [1 Damage Control II] rest of the lows: [Cargo Expander II] I was initially thinking of Cargo Optimization Rigs, but I've started to think of maybe instead of using Trimark(s) and/or Anti-EM/Thermal Pumps (the two lower armor resists for the impel). Also was thinking of using it for mostly safe mining can pickups, so leaning heavily towards the cargo rigs. Any case, mostly plan hisec transporting of stuff like minerals, salvage, etc. nothing too expensive, probably average around 10-20 million max, so I figure realistically doubt I'd have more than 1 suicide ganker (since it probably wouldn't be worth it), but I don't know, maybe someone can say something about just how much money it costs to suicide gank with the cost of ship - insurance fraud payout? Should I consider a Warp Stabilizer? Any tips or thoughts? And just as a reminder, I am aware no one is safe from suicide ganking, just want to make the probability as close to nill as possible.
Azcatl	Posted - 2010.03.16 03:01:00 - [2] Thinking about it would a passive tanked Drake be a "safe ish" ship to pick stuff up in Amarr. I would like a ship to do this as well and Drake has such a large buffer (just use all LSE and no resists). Would this be viable or am I wasting my time?
Hoshi The Einherjar Corporation	Posted - 2010.03.16 06:46:00 - [3] A repairer is not going to be much use against a suicide ganker. By they time it starts to make a difference he will be long dead by concord hands. Try to get the largest plate you can fit in there (it should at least be able to fit a 800mm) and passive resist mods (unless you feel like activating your hardeners every time you undock the thing, by the time you are under attack it's too late). If you have a spare mid then go with a shield extender. ---------------------------------------- "Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Katsu Tokinaga	Posted - 2010.03.16 06:46:00 - [4] Can't say I know what I'd do in the case of the drake, so I can't help you there, but thinking sticking with the cargo optimizers and just fitting a tougher tank if I have the need for more armor. Suggestions or comments are still welcome though.
Katsu Tokinaga	Posted - 2010.03.16 06:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Hoshi A repairer is not going to be much use against a suicide ganker. By they time it starts to make a difference he will be long dead by concord hands. Try to get the largest plate you can fit in there (it should at least be able to fit a 800mm) and passive resist mods (unless you feel like activating your hardeners every time you undock the thing, by the time you are under attack it's too late). If you have a spare mid then go with a shield extender. ok, so go for much larger passive tank then? I was concerned about that too, but figured I should take advantage of the armor repairer bonus on the transport. So maybe another EANM and/or another Tank? I think without armor repairer I can actually upgrade to an 800 rolled tungsten armor plate... found this battleclinic readout for this massive impel passive tank and except the mid and high slot choices (don't really care about a tracking disruptor or auto targeter) thinking the gist is pretty good for tanking, albeit a bit overkill (not going to haul much with all those plates and EANM's)
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.03.16 07:38:00 - [6] This is what I'd be using: [Impel, Highsec Buffer] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN Afterburner II Small Tractor Beam I Medium Cargohold Optimization I Medium Cargohold Optimization I Has 54k EHPs with all lvl 5 skills and can hold half a jetcan. If you're jusing it for pickup duty in a relatively safe environment, you could drop the tank and add cargo expanders on it to haul a full jetcan. Latter option even has a low slot available for a damage control if you still feel insecure or a inertia stab but with a LSE II instead of the AB in the middle, it still gets 25k EHPs, so a lone suicide monkey may not even target you anyways. --------
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.03.16 08:54:00 - [7] An advantage of the Orca is being able to have some goods that are guaranteed not to drop for the pirate. This is useful because there are a number of threads where haulers, red frog and others, point out that your ships defenses are relatively irrelevant. Upgrading from a Badger to freighter might mean they need to bring an additional dozen or two battleships, but if it is valuable enough, pirates are going to bring enough ships to instapop or at least kill you pre-concorde, regardless of what you fly and how it is fitted. You get 8000hp, they bring two 5000 Alpha ships. There is some comfort in doing a good job of your ships defenses. It helps you feel you can control things even if in reality you don't have that much control. And just having enough so that it takes a team and not just a single bored pilot doing it for S&G would seem to be a good thing. You want to increase the cost, in coordination and security as well as ISK while reducing the expected payout. Telling you that the best defense is to keep cargo value down is no consolation, since your last gank was a lose-lose situation and not caused by you being too juicy a target. Free advice is fairly priced. GL!
Chi Quan Bibkor Enterprises	Posted - 2010.03.16 11:22:00 - [8] Originally by: ChrisIsherwood An advantage of the Orca is being able to have some goods that are guaranteed not to drop for the pirate. how so? does the corp hangar ALWAYS get destroyed? ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
Demolishar G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.03.16 11:32:00 - [9] People will gank your T2 Transport for lulz, like I do with Mackinaws. Warp in, and if I see one trying to run away, alpha it and wait for the flood of tears "Why couldn't you have killed one of the macros instead???", what fun.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.03.16 12:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Demolishar People will gank your T2 Transport for lulz, like I do with Mackinaws. Warp in, and if I see one trying to run away, alpha it and wait for the flood of tears "Why couldn't you have killed one of the macros instead???", what fun. That's why every mining ship and transport should have at least 14k EHPs on the lowest resist. You can feed on the bottom bunch all day for all I care, if people fail to fit their ship for surviving the environment they operate in, you deserve your alpha-pop. --------

Katsu Tokinaga	Posted - 2010.03.17 01:58:00 - [11] Originally by: ChrisIsherwood An advantage of the Orca is being able to have some goods that are guaranteed not to drop for the pirate. This is useful because there are a number of threads where haulers, red frog and others, point out that your ships defenses are relatively irrelevant. Upgrading from a Badger to freighter might mean they need to bring an additional dozen or two battleships, but if it is valuable enough, pirates are going to bring enough ships to instapop or at least kill you pre-concorde, regardless of what you fly and how it is fitted. You get 8000hp, they bring two 5000 Alpha ships. There is some comfort in doing a good job of your ships defenses. It helps you feel you can control things even if in reality you don't have that much control. And just having enough so that it takes a team and not just a single bored pilot doing it for S&G would seem to be a good thing. You want to increase the cost, in coordination and security as well as ISK while reducing the expected payout. Telling you that the best defense is to keep cargo value down is no consolation, since your last gank was a lose-lose situation and not caused by you being too juicy a target. Free advice is fairly priced. GL! Not that I have a problem with the orca basically being the best hauler now, But given the way it is the best hauler (unlootable items) says something about the way ship pirating is implemented...yeah ok so the ability to gank another's ship and take whats left of their cargo should still be in the game, maybe its time they implement passive targeter and cargo scanner counter measures--such as masking or distorting whats actually in your cargo? Not only should they take out the insurance payout--I mean, why should it be so low risk for suicide gankers? Someone suggested a while back of concorded ships not receiving insurance as a countermeasure to this issue...but I'd love for someone who scanned an Iteron V that had hundreds of millions of dollars of cargo (from scan results) and ganked it to find out it had nothing via a killmail...grief the gankers :) Of course it doesn't hurt that the Orca just also has the absolute largest cargo hold short of a freighter, which is another attribute that also makes it the best hauler, maybe its time they introduce another line of industrials, given its role and the role of industrials t1 and t2... Also to note, even if you were responsible and fit your ships correctly, a t1 industrials can't even field a decent enough tank for the lone suicide ganker, let alone a group--maybe moving some of that cpu to pg would require more money and effort on the part of the suicide gankers? Besides there will always be someone who throws a bunch of expensive cargo into a completely untanked or inadequately tanked industrial, so its not like ganking would completely disappear or be a non option....
Bomberlocks Minmatar Star Bombers	Posted - 2010.03.17 02:51:00 - [12] I've tried fitting a tank to the on my alt's indy on the odd occasion he's something worth a few million inside, but, to be honest, I think the mere attempt is a waste of time. The thing that gave me the best feeling (and I don't know if it ever helped as I don't fly afk and my alt never got ganked, possibly because he doesn't do that all that often) was to just fill the lows with istabs. Being able to align quickly after decloaking from the gate cloak makes it that tiny bit harder for bigger ships to lock you and gank you.
xXxChristianGirlxXX BOUNTY. HUNTER. MINING. EXSPLORATION. CORPORATION. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.03.17 03:36:00 - [13] Much easier to just buy an Orca and be happy with your 100% gank immune ship. Immune to ship scanners, fully insurable to an 80m loss, EHP of a plated trimarked battleship easily possible, Suicide gankers get no loot what-so-ever, you won't get ganked at all unless you have a very high cargo (which they won't know about since they cant scan your corp hanger).
Ancy Denaries	Posted - 2010.03.17 06:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Bomberlocks I've tried fitting a tank to the on my alt's indy on the odd occasion he's something worth a few million inside, but, to be honest, I think the mere attempt is a waste of time. The thing that gave me the best feeling (and I don't know if it ever helped as I don't fly afk and my alt never got ganked, possibly because he doesn't do that all that often) was to just fill the lows with istabs. Being able to align quickly after decloaking from the gate cloak makes it that tiny bit harder for bigger ships to lock you and gank you. You forgot that you have a signature the size of a small moon with istabs, right? ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
Arous Drephius	Posted - 2010.03.17 07:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Chi Quan Originally by: ChrisIsherwood An advantage of the Orca is being able to have some goods that are guaranteed not to drop for the pirate. how so? does the corp hangar ALWAYS get destroyed? Yes.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.17 10:31:00 - [16] All you need to fit is a T2 cloak and MWD, possibly one inertia stab. As long as you're not afk and use the cloak/mwd trick you're safe unless people start smartbombing you (but they'd do that for no reason because they can't know what your cargo is) or if you by sheer bad luck get decloaked by a closeby ship as you're aligning, but that almost never happens. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2010.03.17 11:49:00 - [17] either use orca (shield extenders II and i-stabs) or cloacky transport for non-afk duty or max tanked heavy transport (and i really mean max tank..trimarks, 800mm plate, 2x eanm II, shield extenders) for afking.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.03.17 12:50:00 - [18] Originally by: Marko Riva All you need to fit is a T2 cloak and MWD, possibly one inertia stab. As long as you're not afk and use the cloak/mwd trick you're safe unless people start smartbombing you (but they'd do that for no reason because they can't know what your cargo is) or if you by sheer bad luck get decloaked by a closeby ship as you're aligning, but that almost never happens. When I was hauling around stuff I came across this gate with like a gazillion concord vessels around it and a bunch of suicide monkeys doing business there. There were so many ships, I couldn't cloak. So cloak isn't the immunity button. --------
Concubinia Scarlett	Posted - 2010.03.18 12:11:00 - [19] Don't present yourself as a gankworthy target in the first place. Make a courier contract to yourself for all your expensive stuff. Put a few T1 crap mods in the hold along with the courier 'parcel'. There will be far less interest in ganking your ship than running across the universe with several millions worth of stuff for all to see. Not a guaranteed solution, but better than obviously carting expensive stuff around in a badger.. If you need to move a lot of stuff, Stick a set of slaves in your freighter pilot and have an alt/friend in a damnation with gang links tag along. Should throw out the suicide gank calculations enough to end up with your ship still intact after a gank attempt, if in deep hull.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.03.18 12:17:00 - [20] Edited by: Marko Riva on 18/03/2010 12:18:50 Originally by: Abrazzar Originally by: Marko Riva All you need to fit is a T2 cloak and MWD, possibly one inertia stab. As long as you're not afk and use the cloak/mwd trick you're safe unless people start smartbombing you (but they'd do that for no reason because they can't know what your cargo is) or if you by sheer bad luck get decloaked by a closeby ship as you're aligning, but that almost never happens. When I was hauling around stuff I came across this gate with like a gazillion concord vessels around it and a bunch of suicide monkeys doing business there. There were so many ships, I couldn't cloak. So cloak isn't the immunity button. There is no immunity, and how does my "almost never happens" differ from your "during my hauling I once ran into a situation where I couldn't cloak". Also, not being able to cloak where the gankers are isn't the issue, as long as you were able to cloak where their shipscanner was (1 system before the gankers). Originally by: Concubinia Scarlett Don't present yourself as a gankworthy target in the first place. Make a courier contract to yourself for all your expensive stuff. Put a few T1 crap mods in the hold along with the courier 'parcel'. There will be far less interest in ganking your ship than running across the universe with several millions worth of stuff for all to see. Not a guaranteed solution, but better than obviously carting expensive stuff around in a badger.. [:lol Put the stuff you want to move into a container, courier wrap that container. Problem solved. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service

Zaxix Black Frog Logistics	Posted - 2010.03.18 19:56:00 - [21] Originally by: Abrazzar When I was hauling around stuff I came across this gate with like a gazillion concord vessels around it and a bunch of suicide monkeys doing business there. There were so many ships, I couldn't cloak. So cloak isn't the immunity button. This will only occur in hisec, where they must first scan your ship to see if its gank-worthy. You'll be gone before most can even get a lock and definitely before a scan finishes. Don't bother fitting for tank. Fit for agility and cloak first. If you've got grid/cpu left over, use passive shield resists to help you survive a smart bomb camp (but your chances are still slim). If you've been locked and you are in a bubble or you are scrammed/disrupted, its over no matter how much tank you have.
King Rothgar Violent By Design Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.03.18 22:20:00 - [22] Rep won't do you any good in a suicide situation. A standard suicide BS only plans to fire one volley. So what you want is maximum buffer. The impel can be fitted with one hell of a tank if you don't care about cargo capacity. For the lows, you should try DCII, 2-3x EANM II's and the biggest plate you can fit (800mm?). You should also fit a warp disruptor to ***** onto the kill mail when the guy get's concorded.
Pirate Jesus	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:02:00 - [23] I've survived a few suicide ganks. One thing to remember though, is that if they want to kill you, they are GOING to kill you. My #1 tip for fitting... is don't carry too much expensive stuff in your cargo hold. Other than that, I just plate up my Impel, throw EANM's, and a damage control. If I can fit my whole haul in my ship without cargo expanders, I put as much tank on it as possible.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:59:00 - [24] Here: [Impel, New Setup 1] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Large Shield Extender II Small Tractor Beam I Medium Cargohold Optimization I Medium Cargohold Optimization I 24K+ EHP and still warps in 18 seconds, which can easily be brought lower if needed. You don't need an A/B or MWD if you are warping to zero everytime. And I have 38K m3 of space, fill that with GFC's and you have a "bunch" of space!
Taua Roqa Minmatar Woe Hole	Posted - 2010.03.19 03:01:00 - [25] there's no conventional way of tanking that scales with what your carrying, i use an impel that can withstand 3 alpha strike BS, 4 if they have a bad tracking day. in 0.5 systems where arties can cycle twice, well if they want to kill me they will, perhaps i could buy slaves and fleet up with a legion and a highsec erebus you know :P the best you can assuredly do is prevent yourself from being lulz ganked by a few really bored players honestly. best way of moving superhighvalue crap that is lowvoume is cloaky/align-tanking, some ships/setups are basically impossible to lock coming off gates @_@


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