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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.16 17:58:00 -
[1]
Fine. Since I already said it I'll copy paste.
1. The game is functioning fine as is with bpo production and invention coinciding. The only people complaining about them are entry level/low level inventors and those that do not have them...usually but not always one in the same. There are plenty of mega manufacturers that don't even own a T2 bpo and defends them.
2. Invention is, without a doubt mind you, placing the bulk of items on the market that used to be controlled by only bpo's. Bpo holders keep inventors in constant check and vice versa concerning market price exploitation. I do it all the time to those that both invent and attempt it with similar bpo's that I have. Without bpo's it's conceivable that with only invention, inventors can attempt market control temporarily until other inventors can come in and correct the market. A bpo holder can run over and immediately correct. The bpo holder, unless he is inventing the same product he has a bpo for, will only have a set amount he can produce but like I said it will be a definate and quicker amount. Inventors will need more time and energy to help control market changes but it can be done.
3. The bpo holders now, for the most part, are not all the original holders of the print. We have all come in as investors with the knowledge that these prints produce at a vastly reduced amount DUE TO invention. Can we produce products cheaper than invention? Absolutely. Can inventors out produce bpo holders? Absolutely. Is either situation unfair? Absolutely not....well that is unless of course you don't have one and are close minded to as close to a sand box game as I've ever seen.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.16 18:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 16/03/2010 18:14:17
Quote: My unforgivable sin is that I discovered EVE 6 months ago instead of 4 years ago. Oh, what an evil, evil person I am. That sin justifies that I forever after be punished with a competative disadvantage. Those greater than me, that discovered the game before me, should forever after be allowed to sit atop their gold mines. They should sit from on high lobbing insults at my futile attempts to assail thier CCP given throwns.
ok LHA T who else started like you? Oh evryone else including me. Can you not see the sheer rediculousness of your arguement? No name calling no insults just listen to yourself. You are saying that because I spent 3 years with an opposite attitude of ambition that my and other investors should simply have are investments removed or altered merely because you are a younger player.. Did I hear that right? Nobody has EVER proven(post invention) that T2 bpo's destroy or have an adverse affect on the eve economy which would be grounds for their altering or removal.
The reason most haters use for sniping T2 bpo's is the "well ccp said they are pure horror and etc". They continue to say ccp must think there is something wrong with them since they removed the lottery.
Is that a point? Sure but look at WHY ccp did what they did. They did not hate the bpo's... They hated the affects placed on the economy of eve. Simply adding more bpo's would bastardize the economy more short term solving price issues but you still run into the problem that the economy is controlled by limited people with DESTROYABLE assets. That does not make for a stable economy where producers and consumers can both benefit consistently.
Invention solved thus problem allowing both to work side by side. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.16 21:33:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 16/03/2010 21:35:41 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 16/03/2010 21:35:22 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 16/03/2010 21:34:44
Quote: I think there are many DAMN good reasons to remove them. The competative advantage. The time, effort advantage. The highly limited nature. AND all the anger and unhappiness that surrounds them, even if false.
And, I personally have never suggested getting rid of them without some compensation to the current holders. 2 years worth of BPOs not enough? Fine, make it 3 years worth.
AND, the BIGGEST damn reason to get rid of them. They offer such a tiny advantage that surely it isn't worth all the negative side effects.
It is already decided. The T2 BPOs are a tiny advantage. Certainly not enough advantage to justify all this ill will that surrounds them.
Let's get rid of them so we can return to arguing about how 0.0 mining should pay 5x high sec mining regardless how many people are doing it, and how missions shouldn't drop repocessable loot, and how bountines from L4s need to be reduced to make it closer to the pay rate from other activities.
There are all MUCH more significant than the absolutely TINY advantage of being a T2 BPO owner... So tiny in fact that ubber rich alliances are willing to pay 10s of billions of ISK to get them.
This has all been covered. You are still just whining that you dont have one and are to lazy to get one. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.16 22:08:00 -
[4]
Quote: Now, show me ONE post I've made where I've used the word "fair".
For me it is not about fairness. It is about long-term shaping the sandbox. What shape do we want the castles to be? Few very large and powerful alliances with special advantages that ensure they grow ever richer and more powerful? Or a more fluid sandbox where young upstart alliances, through hard work and a level plaing field have the potential to one day rise up and challenge the ubber alliances.
somebody point to this troll(yes that is your new title now because you are combat ineffective in arguing at this point) that the statement he made right after the first deals directly with fairness.
also, 90% of your statements you have made deal specifically with you being 6 months old and feel its is not right that you cant have what others have simply because we sit on top of our gold reservers while you starve.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.16 22:14:00 -
[5]
Quote: My unforgivable sin is that I discovered EVE 6 months ago instead of 4 years ago. Oh, what an evil, evil person I am. That sin justifies that I forever after be punished with a competative disadvantage. Those greater than me, that discovered the game before me, should forever after be allowed to sit atop their gold mines. They should sit from on high lobbing insults at my futile attempts to assail thier CCP given throwns.
thats your, "where did i say fair" statement. Quote: That sin justifies that I forever after be punished with a competative disadvantage
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.17 22:05:00 -
[6]
Quote: According to CCP, this was not abaout scalability. It was about removing the bottlenecks that allowed few to control the majority of the resources.
Invention.
But why stop there lets just f*** over guys that worked hard so new players can get their epic mounts just as easy on a fair playing field. Oops my bad i discussed your old game.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.17 22:18:00 -
[7]
Quote: No, I do not think there should be enough Dyspro moons for every player to have one. I do think they should be removed as the major bottleneck in T2 production. Oh, CCP has already made a major change to T2 BMOs to flatten the value of the various moons. Hopefully additional changes will not be required to remove the T2 bottlenecks and the massive profits those tight constraints created.
No. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.17 22:33:00 -
[8]
See this is why i love eve. There is absolutely a situation where one guy can come in and run an alliance of thousands all the while sitting in a ship that maybe 3 others have buying billions of isk of merchandise off of 5 bpo's he spent 6 years to aquire.
See this is why i hate every other game. Fire Fire Fire upgrade Fire Fire. Or how about dig for gold epic mount purchase die respawn at graveyard die again respawn dig gold im rich i think go to market stealth mode im sweet lets go raid LEROYYYY JENKINNNSSS ok that was actually pretty cool dig for gold again raid hey im level 80 like everyone else...*sigh* oh eve looks cool ill do that...wait its unfair! i want i hate i need gimmie wtf emo rage. where the hell is my epic mou.....oh lets try forum warfare.
sweet. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.18 16:28:00 -
[9]
Nice post bro. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 13:12:00 -
[10]
Quote: There will be always those that have and those that have not in EVE. However - what ****es me off about T2 BPO's that there is no in game way of getting one. Other than ofc putting so big pile of isk on the table that someone who has one is willing to sell.
so you admit that there will always be those that have and those that have not. You also appear to accept this. You then go on to say tech 2 bpo's cannot be attained but then you say they can.
W T F are you saying? |
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 13:17:00 -
[11]
Quote: The game functions always fine from the perspective of somebody, who is on top of the foodchain, owning maybe a t2 BPO. Why should that matter for CCP? CCP wants to have many customers and some more customers. New customers means, they have at the beginning in average low skill points. These new customers are more important than the small group of some way too rich t2 bpo holder, who have so much iskies, that they do not know anything better to do with it than buying a t2 bpo. We talk about a very small group of t2 BPO holders and a huge majority, who can only dream of having such an asset. In markets for items, which have lots of BPOs seeded and in which the costs for the invention are bad, the t2 BPO holders rule. This is not good. It makes some guys even richer than they already are and some other guys, who are quite new, have less chances to improve their wealth.
ah ha! So you are one of the "but I want to be a Jedi toooo George!" squad. It is generally accepted that star wars was a good game by the cool mmo'rs until peeps like you got your dirty little fingers in the cake. Thank god ccp is not Sony. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 17:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 19/03/2010 17:53:00 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 19/03/2010 17:50:17
Quote: I'm not looking for a game reset. I'm looking for younger, hungrier alliances being able to band together to take out the big guys. Impossible to do if the current "big guys" have special competative advantages not avaialble to the younger and hungrier alliances that allow them to have 10x the income with the same player base.
dude...look. Money breeds money especially in eve. These big alliances you are referring to have always, until recently ALWAYS exerted their power inorder to get High end moons. EDIT: I haven't run one in awhile but I understand they still produce decent income but others like technetium are hot now. I'm sure moons still hold massive influence in alliance policy concerning territory.
I know all this because I used to run dyspro moons. Just ONE punched out 1.7 billion isk of dyspro in roughly a week. Now wth do you think a smart alliance leader is gonna do?
1. Embezzle it? Meh not likely 2. Buy capitals for the alliance? Now that is a good idea. 3. Buy expensive bpo's ranging from tech 1 sub capital to soper capital to tech 2? Even better idea! 4. Do 2 and 3 and maintain the logistics for the alliance? Perfection!
The fundamental difference here is that you are in conflict of the free market money making aspects of eve.
WTF are you doing playing this game??? |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:19:00 -
[13]
Quote: Okay. Red alliance has shrunk while Band of Brothers and AAA have grown some.
But for 3 years, I find that an INCREADIBLY small amount of change.
uhhh
just off the top of my head.
1. Smash gone 2. Roadkill gone 3. Kosc gone. 4. Bob disbanded territory lost then regained I.e. Change 5. Goons owned territory lost 6. Bruce gone. 7. MC gone 8. Pure gone 9. Big blue gone...ok that's just for comedy :) 10. And many others.
Gimmie some of what you are smoking. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:39:00 -
[14]
What is your political affiliation?
Thanks |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.19 18:51:00 -
[15]
Dude what's your politics or I will not respond to you directly anymore. I want to know if we are simply being trolled.
No person in their right mind would continue playing this game based on the concerns you have for it. It's like buying a first person shooter and the company that makes the game calls you up and says they now own the rights to your left mouse button and to remove it. You are obviously just horribly gimped due to all the unfair sh!t going on. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.22 18:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 22/03/2010 19:02:20 Edited by: Jovialmadness on 22/03/2010 19:00:21 Umega you better get you a bunch of piħa coladas and sit back for a bit cause this dude has not nor CAN he ever give you those answers
tech 2 stealth overpowered unfairness edit: nor can anyone in the game for that matter. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.23 11:55:00 -
[17]
Unless you guys are enjoying this debate i would recommend not arguing with this dude anymore. This is starting to sound like an athiest vs roman catholic war of words. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.03.29 14:58:00 -
[18]
Quote: Edited by: Thrault on 27/03/2010 19:01:35 I'm a new player to the game, ....,
nice post bro..only one problem and I have quoted it. Well that problem and the fact that just like it real life eve has monetary options that make "unfair" situations.
I stress "unfair" because the bulk of the people that are for balance and equality don't realize or atleast refuse to accept that eve was designed and is constantly maintained to give reasonable options to promote standardized gameplay while also promoting uniqueness.
I.e. No one ship is so unbalanced that a majority of players fly it and if that happens ccp pulls out the bat or sledgehammer if you like. No one manufacturing option is better than another for example bpo's can produce limited quantities with ease but has huge upfront costs associated whereas invention can produce technically unlimited numbers(assuming you characters limitations) of same items with no where near the upfront costs with a more work involved.
Ccp has purposely given us all multiple options to consider.
Consider them and choose... |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.04.05 18:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/04/2010 18:58:30
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Quite frankly, and I think I speak for all T2 BPO owners in this, but were it actually a necessity that the BPOs be removed, I would only accept the fair market value of the BPO (in isk), prior to the announcement of the removal.
Of course it would be almost impossible to derive out every last type of T2 BPO and their respective values, but the point stands, anything less and I'd feel betrayed.
I understand..... and trying to placate those of you elite gods that have a CCP given right to look down upon the mere mortals with disdain is exactly why invention is so expensive and such a pain.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced.... The obvious, best resolution is to allow invention on a T1 BPO to produce a T2 BPO. Then we are not removing your T2 BPO, so there is no need to compensate you at all.
Better?
We're not taking away something that someone has worked for, we're giving other the oppertunity to work for it too.
How about if it took like 1 million datacores. Or, maybe, 100K datacores with 10% chance of success. At 100K ISK each, that is like 100 billion ISK on average to create a T2 BPO.
Yep, that's the way to go. With a T1 BPO and 100K datacores you get a 10% chance of converting the T1 BPO into a T2.
I know it started as a troll post, but this REALLY is the way to placate everyone. The current T2 BPOs retain their value of 100 billion+ ISK. Newer players have hope of someday climbing the mountain.
Flame away.
You do realize karma is a bit@$. Once you go down this road it WILL return to smite you. Years later if you still are playing and have achieved or accumulated something through hard work having it torn from you will be a distinct possibility. You WILL be on these forums screaming and defending it. Once you start demanding or even forcefully suggesting debateable changes to the game don't think it can't hurt you later on. You may have nothing to whine about losing now, hence the reason you are whining about having nothing but you will someday.
Keep on... |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:09:00 -
[20]
Quote: Better would be to give everyone a chance to invent a T2 BPO.
better according to...whom? You? The other belly achers?
Your idea of better is funny stupid not funny haha. Adding more by making it an inventable chance with nothing other than lots of clicks and luck is worse than removing them completely. Why? Because it's like Chinese water torture. The first drips are nothing but a thousand later you are screaming. Initially the value of the bpo's will only be moderately affected through market speculation. Eventually command ship bpo's wouldn't be worth much better than bs bpo's.
Talk about a slow, grueling wasting away of an asset as more and more are brought into the game. |
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.04.06 00:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa I was honest in my suggestion that it take like 10 billion ISK worth of decryptors to get a 10% chance of inventing a T2 BPO. It maintains the majority of the value of the current BPO holders while giving newbs a multi-year goal to work towards.
But, all you T2 BPO whiners with your attitude that you have a God given right to insane profits, and no mortal shall ever have a reasonible chance of climbing opon high have reconvinced me.
T2 BPOs are pure evil and must be immediatly removed from the game. EVERYONE must suffer unending hours of reinventing the lightbulb for each production run
In fact, I'm pretty sure that the current holders are just a bunch of whiners that should be ignored, so the BPOs should be removed without ANY compensation.
T2 BPOs are evil and must be removed, if nothing else, to put those who think they are better than everyone else, back into their place.
Harsh place indeed!!! I can imagine little harsher than someone having spent 100 billion on a T2 BPO only to have it reomoved without any compensation. So, that should be what you want if you want EVE to be a harsh place.
Oh... Harsh for noobs but the elitest Gods of EVE must remain enthroned on thier special pedistals. EVE will suck if noobs are given the oppertunity to work for something that would likely take years to acheive.... F you all...
1. I am most assuredly not whining. I make 10 bil a month off my bpo's so you can take that and eat it.
2. You are the one lacking and feeling abused cry some more for me. You tears are yummy.
3. Even if they were nerfed tomorrow I've already made my money back and some. I just bought 12 bs bpo's to have a set. You upset about that? Eat it.
4. I have resorted to treating you like you diserve. Well tbh you diserve worse and I could go on but my omelet is sitting in front of me so I'm gonna eat that now. |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 07/04/2010 13:02:37
Originally by: Gorefacer Fact is the game would be just fine if T2 BPOs were removed or not.
The end.
Some real crazy fail logic and arguments from both sides in this thread trying to suit their own interests.
For hilarity they should re-lottery everyones' T2 BPOs to new people, then redo this again and again at random intervals, GOGO CCP.
Do humanity and eve players everywhere a big favor and don't ever post again. For someone accusing others of fail logic that has got to be the biggest rubbish idea I've ever seen.
Edit: regardless if it was meant to be funny or not |
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