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Rooks & Kings Loose multi billion isk BS to a t1 gang

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Red Lust	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:24:00 - [1] So I noticed this faction fitted Machariel loss on R&K's kb and noticed its the cheapest faction fitted BS i've ever seen. Machariel loss. It's a shame I had some respect for these guys, and now who knows how much padding they do to make themselves look good. Whats your opinion on stat padding? I'm interested in how other pvp alliances weigh stats and reputation.
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Taross on 18/03/2010 07:38:47 To me, it looks like that killboard calculates the price of mods and ships as the base value of the stuff. Then, the number more or less makes sense. Do they have any nice faction BS KILLS on there, so we can compare? Maybe they just don't CARE enough about efficiency ratings to make an effort to keep prices for faction mods, pirate BS etc up-to-date. I might be too charitable, though. In that case, this would be pretty sad... EDIT: http://www.rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4144 A mach KILL that also undervalues the ship. So, it's just something in how the killboard values stuff, looks like. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Kirra Liu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:32:00 - [3] I don't know a good Machariel fit from a bad one as I have never looked into them but that doesn't seem like a stupidly cheap fit. A stupidly cheap fit would be T1 modules that they got from looting a few missions. It's T2, faction and deadspace or whatever its called modules. So please point out the problems. Kirra Liu /Lord Windu
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Kirra Liu I don't know a good Machariel fit from a bad one as I have never looked into them but that doesn't seem like a stupidly cheap fit. A stupidly cheap fit would be T1 modules that they got from looting a few missions. It's T2, faction and deadspace or whatever its called modules. So please point out the problems. The fit is alright... Quite pimp, in fact. Which is the problem. Find, near the top-left corner, what they say is the "ISK lost" value of the ship in question. OP is suggesting they're lowballing the value of an expensive loss. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Kirra Liu Echelon Holdings Echelon.	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Taross The fit is alright... Quite pimp, in fact. Which is the problem. Find, near the top-left corner, what they say is the "ISK lost" value of the ship in question. OP is suggesting they're lowballing the value of an expensive loss. Didn't pick up on that. That will just be the non market items going for their mineral value as you already mentioned. With items that sell through contracts their prices can fluctuate on a regular basis and they can fluctuate greatley, also you cant get the prices for contract goods from the database like the regular market so to get all the items prices someone would have to sit and go through every single faction / deadspace / officer item and check their price manually. OP Fails, and was undoubtedly abused by Rooks and Kings. Kirra Liu /Lord Windu
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:47:00 - [6] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 18/03/2010 07:48:16 Haha, someone loses a Machariel to a bunch of Caracals, and the best thing you can come up with is accuse them of padding KB stats by not having deadspace mods priced right? They most likely hurt their stats by not setting the values properly, decent pvpers tend to kill way more faction ships/modules than they lose.
Andracin Minmatar Ever Flow Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:52:00 - [7] The issue is with the eve dev killboard. An administrator for the board has to manually fix the prices for most faction and deadspace to some realistic market average. Otherwise the KB assumes since it is not t2 its t1 or it uses some other incorrect value. It does not mean that they are devaluing the loss since devaluing the mods also impacts their kill values as well.
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:54:00 - [8] As you see here: http://www.rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7784 Same for our kills, atm all the faction ships show base values. The code's just been updated to the new eve-dev and it'll take a while to set values. Since there are a lot more faction kills than losses it's actually selling us short atm :P All main efficiencies are from hull rather than modules - though the hulls themselves will need setting on the new board. Once the values are set we'll actually gain a percent or two efficiency As for Stribog, meh, sometimes people roam solo, sometimes they get a nice kill, now and then they get ganked too. About kb stuff though, we are kb **s so always feel free to ask. And I mean literally Reichstag-burning killboard **s, complete with full leather regalia and Princess Aricia with a whip.
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:00:00 - [9] Edited by: Taross on 18/03/2010 08:02:15 While I suspect you might very well be right about the OP, it looks like they DO adjust some prices by hand... Compare the mach loss in the OP, or the mach kill I edited into my first reply, to: http://www.rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4894 this nightmare kill. I doubt a nighmare takes twice or thrice the minerals a mach takes. (Having seen both fly by IG, the other way around seems likelier... Damn, machs are big...) I think they just CBA to add in all values for faction stuff by hand... I know I wouldn't... therefore, I suspect coincidence. But, well, tinfoil is SO MUCH COOLER! So, damn you, R&K! Killboard manipulation, sekrit Dev haxxorz, murdering JFK, conspiring with reptoid invaders from alpha centauri, hiding Elvis... What will you lot think of next? Edit: Didn't see the evil reptoid overlord, ehm, sorry, R&K representative posting while I was composing this nonsense. thanks for the explanation. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Taross Edited by: Taross on 18/03/2010 08:02:15 While I suspect you might very well be right about the OP, it looks like they DO adjust some prices by hand... Compare the mach loss in the OP, or the mach kill I edited into my first reply, to: http://www.rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4894 this nightmare kill. I doubt a nighmare takes twice or thrice the minerals a mach takes. (Having seen both fly by IG, the other way around seems likelier... Damn, machs are big...) I think they just CBA to add in all values for faction stuff by hand... I know I wouldn't... therefore, I suspect coincidence. But, well, tinfoil is SO MUCH COOLER! So, damn you, R&K! Killboard manipulation, sekrit Dev haxxorz, murdering JFK, conspiring with reptoid invaders from alpha centauri, hiding Elvis... What will you lot think of next? Look again. The Nightmare kill you link there has the same Ship Loss value as the one I linked. Same for all the faction modules - all base. The difference here is Tech 2 Rigs which are a market item and thus the new eve-dev automatically includes the right prices for a T2 rig.
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Morium Blue Look again. The Nightmare kill you link there has the same Ship Loss value as the one I linked. Same for all the faction modules - all base. The difference here is Tech 2 Rigs which are a market item and thus the new eve-dev automatically includes the right prices for a T2 rig. Ah, yeah, sorry, you're right. So, why are you guys too cheap to t2 rig your factionfitted pirate battleships? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Taross Ah, yeah, sorry, you're right. So, why are you guys too cheap to t2 rig your factionfitted pirate battleships? To be fair, the guy who lost his ship in the OP is new (which I suspect is part of the OP's motivation to get him into trouble - though I don't begrudge the op for enjoying a nice kill). A lot of our faction bs do have t2 rigs. For example, our French wing ran rampant in WH space for a long time with the fits you can see here, when they finally died and have t2 rigs as you can see there. They did get (more than) revenge last weekend though (and about 14billion in loot on top of it) on a return to the same WH against the same opponents. That saga included a hostile Orca that scooped all BPOs on a tower being RF'd and then got bumped by a carrier (in his corp) out of the shield in a slow, lurid slide toward waiting and hungry t3 ships. Madness - but a story for another day. Safe to say they're still t2 rigged ;)
Red Lust	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:28:00 - [13] lol, no hard feelings to me. Was just pointing out some stat padding by a group that has bragged about their own to me before. Here some proof its not the killboard messing up >.> lulz Proof 1 Proof 2 Non related loss from same pilot lulz Related loss Related loss 2 Stop padding your losses >.> I wanna join your corp so when i loss expensive stuff i can look good doing it ^_^
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Red Lust lol, no hard feelings to me. Was just pointing out some stat padding by a group that has bragged about their own to me before. Here some proof its not the killboard messing up >.> lulz Proof 1 Proof 2 Click the 'About' button on those links. "The base coding of the board is the EVE Development Network Killboard running version 2.0.8 (Dominion) rev 484". That's an older revision of Eve-dev, the problem is with the latest & greatest version; as all the people in this thread above are telling you. Originally by: Red Lust Stop padding your losses >.> I wanna join your corp so when i loss expensive stuff i can look good doing it ^_^ As explained in detail above, it actually hurts our efficiency until the values are corrected. This is why people are writing things like "OP Fails, and was undoubtedly abused by Rooks and Kings" in the posts above.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:06:00 - [15] yeouch! looks like scrambler raptor, and permajamed by blackbird. unlucky
Viibl Triibl	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton yeouch! looks like scrambler raptor, and permajamed by blackbird. unlucky Yea, I'm not sure if any ship could've made it out of that.
Shad0w Hawk Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.03.18 17:07:00 - [17] They deserve respect for regularly pvping in expensive ships without a blob backing them up. Not many people pvp like that nowadays.
Ta'jek Angels Of Death EVE Free Worlds Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 17:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Ta''jek on 18/03/2010 17:18:52 Confirming that it isn't what you kill or how you kill it that makes you good at pvp but how much your KB values the kill at. On a serious note, I've enjoyed the times I've gotten to fly/fight with R&K immensely and have learned alot from them. it's almost as entertaining hearing about their success and failures in ops as listening to Princess Aricia talking smack to everyone in TS during the ops
Red Lust	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Morium Blue Click the 'About' button on those links. "The base coding of the board is the EVE Development Network Killboard running version 2.0.8 (Dominion) rev 484". That's an older revision of Eve-dev, the problem is with the latest & greatest version; as all the people in this thread above are telling you. Originally by: Morium Blue As explained in detail above, it actually hurts our efficiency until the values are corrected. This is why people are writing things like "OP Fails, and was undoubtedly abused by Rooks and Kings" in the posts above. Didn't Dominion launch less than 3 months ago, don't think the stats are that far off. Having less value hit on your kb hurts your efficency, where did you go to school. So the latest version of kb software says ppl are selling a faction fitted Machariel for 350mil. I'll buy a few from you if your selling them at that price lol. Get rich or die failing.... lulz Originally by: Shad0w Hawk They deserve respect for regularly pvping in expensive ships without a blob backing them up. Not many people pvp like that nowadays. Respect for being stupid and making your corp and alliance look stupid. Yea sure Can I get a application I wanna join. jk Oh noes 7 man t1 cruiser gang runz itz a blob lulz. so much fail
Mutnin Amarr Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:24:00 - [20] Because of Blackbird
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Red Lust Didn't Dominion launch less than 3 months ago, don't think the stats are that far off. Having less value hit on your kb hurts your efficency, where did you go to school. So the latest version of kb software says ppl are selling a faction fitted Machariel for 350mil. I'll buy a few from you if your selling them at that price lol. The new Eve-dev code has been out a couple weeks at most, so all the values need to be imported, as explained. But also as already covered, since we kill vastly more faction stuff than we lose (proved by your surprise at Stribog here), until the values are updated the stats sell us short, since we're missing out on all those kill values. Pro-tip: you say 'lulz' too much and ignore the general flow of the thread, leading to you being puzzled at the fact that people are flaming you here. Not me though, since it gives me a chance to point out that until new values are fixed, efficiencies will be down a notch since our shiny kills won't count as much.
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Red Lust I think I'm making a point, but I really just don't understand relational databases. Fixed.
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:55:00 - [23] Edited by: Taross on 18/03/2010 19:02:07 Originally by: Kirra Liu OP Fails, and was undoubtedly abused by Rooks and Kings. Just read the further posts by the OP in this thread. AFTER the nice gentleman from R&K, and other helpful people, explained to us what happened here, he's still at it. So, I'm re-quoting your words from early on in this thread, to say: Yes, you're right. You were right all along. Good on ya for spotting it so early!
pc dude Ghosts of Ragnarok	Posted - 2010.03.18 18:58:00 - [24] That the OP would smack R&K along these lines (as if they would need to pad their kb stats) just demonstrates his obvious lack of experience with them outside of miserable losses against them (except, of course, for that one machariel he managed to kill.) Really though, I have little defense to offer, because LM will do a much better job than I of tearing the guy apart with words in a most eloquent fashion. Haven't flown with them in this iteration, but most of them are guys I wouldn't mind flying with again, and they are definatly pvpers to be respected and in most cases feared (with the right FCs running the fleets of course.)
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2010.03.18 19:21:00 - [25] Yeah i saw these guys running around last night in that big overbloated gang its nice to see something came of it.
Red Lust	Posted - 2010.03.18 22:11:00 - [26] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: Red Lust I think I'm making a point, but I really just don't understand relational databases. Fixed. Anyone want to link any relational databases, I've linked 3 separate killboard databases. Any way, down play all you want the point is. Your Killborad is bunk and you should fix it. You can try and flame me all you want, I expect that since your all gay anyway ^_- But you can't rationalize that ship being worth 350 mil, and kb's aren't a 100% accurate but they shouldn't be off by 90% either. so lets not get off topic. I want to know what ppl think about corps/alliances with "grossly" inaccurate killboards. Seems to be more and more common.
Morium Blue Order of the Lost Souls Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 22:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Red Lust Anyone want to link any relational databases, I've linked 3 separate killboard databases. All of which will have to update to the new Eve-dev code and enter new custom values for all of the faction stuff, until such time as plugins provide it automatically. The point is that a faction ship kill will be as undervalued as a faction ship loss. Same for items. As you can see on the statistics, since we kill a lot more faction stuff than is lost, this means that the present state of the board actually sells us short. Originally by: Red Lust You can try and flame me all you want, I expect that since your all gay anyway ^_- I'm not flaming you. Some people might be, yes - but personally I welcome kb enquiries and I am, myself, a killboard fascist for accuracy and good data. Originally by: Red Lust I expect that since your all gay anyway ^_- Let's assume that - as you suggest - all the people posting on the thread are indeed homosexual. Why are your feelings about human sexuality tied up in your feelings on relational database coding issues? But as they say, when in Rome... After the next op I shall encourage a proper orgy, grapes and all. We'll have Yukio Mishima on the coffee table, we'll have Douglas' mask on the walls and we'll dance naked in the moonlight to Antony and the Johnsons. I think the first track will be The Cripple and the Starfish. You're welcome to join too and then we can celebrate your kill properly.
ABITA Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Morium Blue Originally by: Taross Edited by: Taross on 18/03/2010 08:02:15 While I suspect you might very well be right about the OP, it looks like they DO adjust some prices by hand... Compare the mach loss in the OP, or the mach kill I edited into my first reply, to: http://www.rooksandkings.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4894 this nightmare kill. I doubt a nighmare takes twice or thrice the minerals a mach takes. (Having seen both fly by IG, the other way around seems likelier... Damn, machs are big...) I think they just CBA to add in all values for faction stuff by hand... I know I wouldn't... therefore, I suspect coincidence. But, well, tinfoil is SO MUCH COOLER! So, damn you, R&K! Killboard manipulation, sekrit Dev haxxorz, murdering JFK, conspiring with reptoid invaders from alpha centauri, hiding Elvis... What will you lot think of next? Look again. The Nightmare kill you link there has the same Ship Loss value as the one I linked. Same for all the faction modules - all base. The difference here is Tech 2 Rigs which are a market item and thus the new eve-dev automatically includes the right prices for a T2 rig. Hi LM
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2010.03.19 01:48:00 - [29] OP is a ******
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.03.19 02:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Red Lust Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: Red Lust I think I'm making a point, but I really just don't understand relational databases. Fixed. Anyone want to link any relational databases, I've linked 3 separate killboard databases. And yet, you're still too stupid to figure out that the value of the item in the database is going to be the value of the item everywhere it's referenced in that database. There isn't a special, "OOPS, I LOST A SHIP" lower value and a, "HEY I KILLED A FACTION SHIP SET IT TO 1 TRILLION ISK!!" upper value. It's the same value everywhere. That means that when they kill a faction ship and blow up faction mobs, they're counting those items at the EXACT SAME VALUE as they are when they lose them. A module marked at its mineral value is, thus, only marked at its mineral value when they blow something up, just the same as it is when they lose it. So, 1 equals 1 and there is no padding - just a butthurt newb.

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