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Probabbly beating a dead horse...

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Hussain Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.03.20 12:48:00 - [1] Hi, Just lost my Comet to a Machariel, why ? Simply by overheating he was almost as fast as me and took me by surprise, scramble, neut well you get the picture. I also have noticed an increased difficulty to kill frigs (the "new" faction ones) and interceptors using light drones (even with +50% dmg/hp bonus) and being fully skilled. As i remember from the pre speed nerf times they were faster that your drones (a lot) but would run, now they simply stay pointing you tanking and killing your drones. With 3500m/s+ battleships (that was new to me, congratulations to Tosi over a nery well made kill) and the useless of drones against fast targets we are getting again to the point when speed is the only thing that matters in small scale pvp.
Berenices Herculina Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.03.20 14:10:00 - [2] You lost a frigate to battleship and you are asking, why?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.03.20 14:20:00 - [3] Originally by: Hussain With 3500m/s+ battleships (that was new to me, congratulations to Tosi over a nery well made kill) and the useless of drones against fast targets we are getting again to the point when speed is the only thing that matters in small scale pvp. You say this like we ever actually LEFT that point. We didn't. The only thing the speed nerf did was remove some of the most overpowered setups and the clueless FOTM abusers who don't understand how speed really works. Speed always has been, and always will be, decisively important in small-scale PvP. -----------
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.03.20 14:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Hussain Hi, Just lost my Comet to a Machariel, why ? Because the Mach is a BS and the Comet is a frig. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.03.20 15:00:00 - [5] Macha + snakes + boosting loki /covops, unprobeable, immune to bubbles/ = 4k+ bs with 7s align, 50k point, 100k buffer and 1k dps /cant remember falloff but is 50+/. Enjoy.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.03.20 15:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Hussain With 3500m/s+ battleships (that was new to me, congratulations to Tosi over a nery well made kill) and the useless of drones against fast targets we are getting again to the point when speed is the only thing that matters in small scale pvp. You say this like we ever actually LEFT that point. We didn't. The only thing the speed nerf did was remove some of the most overpowered setups and the clueless FOTM abusers who don't understand how speed really works. Speed always has been, and always will be, decisively important in small-scale PvP. Range control, really. But obviously speed is how you achieve that.
Helmh0ltz Red Federation	Posted - 2010.03.20 17:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Hussain Hi, Just lost my Comet to a Machariel, why ? Simply by overheating he was almost as fast as me and took me by surprise, scramble, neut well you get the picture. I also have noticed an increased difficulty to kill frigs (the "new" faction ones) and interceptors using light drones (even with +50% dmg/hp bonus) and being fully skilled. As i remember from the pre speed nerf times they were faster that your drones (a lot) but would run, now they simply stay pointing you tanking and killing your drones. With 3500m/s+ battleships (that was new to me, congratulations to Tosi over a nery well made kill) and the useless of drones against fast targets we are getting again to the point when speed is the only thing that matters in small scale pvp. I don't understand. 1. Thread title says beating a dead horse. Which implies that this is something that has been brought up before like, ECM, Blasters, Roflkets, etc... 2. OP surprises with an anecdote about losing a a comet to a faction BS. 3. OP complains. 4. ??? 5. Tl;dr OP wants to kill Machariels in a comet.
On Keeg	Posted - 2010.03.20 17:12:00 - [8] This is the most obvious troll-thread i have ever read. How can y'all fall for that?
Hussain Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.03.20 19:22:00 - [9] Just to make some things clear. I didnt want to engage the Machariel I was running a FW plex he comed in and in no time was neuting and pointing me. My bad should have cuonted on a 3500m/s+ speed battleship. What I am saying is that: Speed in my opinion is completly unbalanced again and that in my opinion makes guns and drones mostly useless. Everyone will start using speed fits again in small scale pvp. And the nano-whatever age will be back. There was a speed balance done for some reason, it worked for a while until some brain decided to redesign the faction ships and drone attack patterns in my opinion whitout thinking for a moment in what he was doing. I do fly this new ships and yes they have little to do with comparable ones of the same size, they are far better, and the cost well.. ISK was never a real problem in EVE and with the cash for plex thing it ceased to be completly. Just my opinion.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.03.20 19:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Hussain Everyone will start using speed fits again in small scale pvp. And whats wrong with that? Mobility is a key factor in small scale pvp, deal with it. Having said that, the angel ships are quite a bit OTT right now, but thats it.

Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.03.20 19:33:00 - [11] So because you lost your comet to the last true nano ship in the game and noticed a few other ships that are supposed to be blindingly fast are well, blindingly fast, that makes the game compleatly unbalanced again eh? QQ moar prease. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! CCP Shadow's Troll List.
Umega Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.03.20 20:46:00 - [12] I might care that this is a gallente crying about speed.. again.. if it wasn't for the fact that the angel ships are gallente cross-train avialable ships. Nano fits.. are nano fits. They take slots.. they hurt their own dps/tank in several ways. Exploit it. Sensor damps, webs, tracking disrupts, scrams.. learn to fly to screw up their transversial to screw up their own tracking because of their speed.. while your drones don't care that you're doing it. Force them to constantly adjust their flight pattern til they make a mistake. Speed is a tactical battle field application that shouldn't be removed.. people should be allowed to dictate range, just as someone should be allowed to put on a ridiculous amount of armor and move like a brick on the surface of Jupiter, or someone that pushes their cpu/pw to the limit for the sole purpose of an extreme alpha shot. Plenty of tactics and counter tactics. There are fits to counter nano, they just aren't common cause nano wasn't so common (at this level) up until dominion changes. People struggle to get out of current cookie-cut molds that didn't focus on countering so much speed n focused on other areas. Don't ignore tracking disrupters, you all make me very angry! Stuck in ways, unwilling to change to exploit the own faults of those that did change to exploit your own unability to adapt to an ever changing world. Get outta the stagnant pool of water, its murky, dark, blinding, and it stinks like pathetic tears. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Smabs	Posted - 2010.03.20 21:18:00 - [13] .. how on earth did he lock you before you warped off? Comets align in like 2-3 seconds. Also it's a faction battleship that's worth about twenty or more of your comets, so you know..
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2010.03.20 22:40:00 - [14] Small scale pvp is all about mobility and firepower, always has been. Raw speed is one aspect of mobility but agility is also important. As for drones, well, they've always been more of a nuisance than a threat to a skilled skirmish pilot. More people are realising that you can actually shoot them down pretty quick (unless you're unlucky enough to be using missiles for it). In terms of a stealth gallente whine, I think that while Minmatar should be the fastest, Gallente should certainly be the most agile. To use an animal simile, Minmatar should be horses - very quick after some acceleration, whereas Gallente should be crocodiles - unbelievably quick across short distances but not exactly long distance runners. An overloaded MWD burst from a blastership should be a far more dangerous proposition than it currently is. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Ramiera DaMorre	Posted - 2010.03.21 23:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Stuart Price In terms of a stealth gallente whine, I think that while Minmatar should be the fastest, Gallente should certainly be the most agile. To use an animal simile, Minmatar should be horses - very quick after some acceleration, whereas Gallente should be crocodiles - unbelievably quick across short distances but not exactly long distance runners. An overloaded MWD burst from a blastership should be a far more dangerous proposition than it currently is. I really don't want to take any side so I'm just saying: I like this post.
Quantum Antomata	Posted - 2010.03.22 00:39:00 - [16] Mach = Angel ship Angel ships = fast Mach = fast ship We good?
Shivarie	Posted - 2010.03.22 06:25:00 - [17] err, i saw "beating a dead horse" and though POS Mechanics revamp? am i alone on that? meh.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.03.22 06:32:00 - [18] I was skeptical about the Mach going that fast even with gang bonuses and snakes, so I EFT'd it up: Turns out I was wrong, overloaded with 3x nanofiber, snakes, max skills, and a max skilled mindlinked loki in gang, the machariel will indeed hit 4400 m/s. hell that ship is so awesome ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.03.22 09:33:00 - [19] only an all out nano mach will feel like a nano ship, with any kind of defence and tackle its as soft as puppy poo. no problem here.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.03.22 09:49:00 - [20] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 22/03/2010 09:52:07 Originally by: Dr Fighter only an all out nano mach will feel like a nano ship, with any kind of defence and tackle its as soft as puppy poo. An all out nano mach has still a huge amount of EHP as well as very respectable damage output at 50km if fitted properly. Problem is merely that a BS outruns all but the fastest cruisers with ease (and nuke the fastest ones on approach without breaking a sweat), but hey, its expensive...

Dr Fighter	Posted - 2010.03.22 09:56:00 - [21] Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 22/03/2010 09:52:07 Originally by: Dr Fighter only an all out nano mach will feel like a nano ship, with any kind of defence and tackle its as soft as puppy poo. An all out nano mach has still a huge amount of EHP as well as very respectable damage output at 50km if fitted properly. Problem is merely that a BS outruns all but the fastest cruisers with ease (and nuke the fastest ones on approach without breaking a sweat), but hey, its expensive... and you need big swollen balls to fly it like that, the first mistake will be your only mistake and you will look foolish when its ripped apart in a minute by a handfull of cepters
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.03.22 10:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Dr Fighter and you need big swollen balls to fly it like that, the first mistake will be your only mistake and you will look foolish when its ripped apart in a minute by a handfull of cepters Oh yea, I missed the part where you can only fly it solo... silly me.
Tornado Bait Minmatar Hellhounds. HellFleet	Posted - 2010.03.22 11:31:00 - [23] Question: Quote: Just lost my Comet to a Machariel, why ? Answer: Quote: Simply by overheating he was almost as fast as me and took me by surprise, scramble, neut


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