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Remove learning skills?

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Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.06.30 15:46:00 - [421] When you reach a point in the game where _any_ skill under a week to train has you mentally telling yourself, "Oh, a short one." ... They're all boring.
Admiral Chrom	Posted - 2010.06.30 17:10:00 - [422] Is there any statement from CCP about this topic?
Mashie Saldana Red Federation	Posted - 2010.06.30 17:40:00 - [423] Originally by: Admiral Chrom Is there any statement from CCP about this topic? Well we have this fanfest 2009 video.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.06.30 18:15:00 - [424] I saw an older fanfest video where Oveur explained how a pilot will be able to purchase a small section of dead space to set up their own little killing field for other pilots to try and master. He made it sound similar to buying a house in other games and people can come and visit; except in this scenario, blast ships or get blasted. Another video where alliances were going to be able to set up their own personal store for all their pilots. Another video where the rich history and current events were to be captured for future prosperity in some form of numerous evolving web pages. Another video where tech three ships were able to be configured into hundreds of different designs. Another video where the early stages for walking in stations and the configuration of the whole pilot in terms of height and weight were presented. Another video where CCP had a ten year plan for EVE and then were going to end it with ... what was the word, "Totalhelldeath" or something like that...
Wirindi	Posted - 2010.06.30 18:26:00 - [425] i agree +10 and x1.10 learning bonus. remove leraning skills and give everyone who investet in leraning skillpoints back to reinvest in new skills.
Conmen The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.06.30 18:29:00 - [426] Originally by: Wirindi i agree +10 and x1.10 learning bonus. remove leraning skills and give everyone who investet in leraning skillpoints back to reinvest in new skills. This is filled with win the eve player base collective IQ just went up GRATZI.
Admiral Chrom	Posted - 2010.06.30 19:48:00 - [427] I think CCP has now a great possibility to solve the "learning-problem"
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.06.30 20:04:00 - [428] Before everyone starts singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead", CCP has not come out and said anything definite about removing the learning skills and compensating those that trained them. For those just joining this thread, the proposal to take out the learning skills and just give everybody the attributes is a player proposal and it's from three months ago if you'll note the date of the OP. I'm very much a fan of Guttripper's ideas on this...it would be a travesty to just flat give the bonus to everyone including people who never trained the skills. I like his proposal to just take the learning skills out and everybody gets nothing and everybody can just train substantially slower from now on and then we can all hate it together. Problem solved and nobody has to train those lousy learning skills. TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy Corps here
sirgath	Posted - 2010.06.30 21:01:00 - [429] Edited by: sirgath on 30/06/2010 21:05:50 Originally by: Viggen I'd be happy if they removed all the learning skills, and gave +10 to base attributes. But only if they let me reallocate the 5,376,000 SP's I've invested into learning to wherever I liked As a new player with about five days worth of learning skills left in the queue, I wholeheartedly support this idea.
Drebble Gallente North Star Networks The Kadeshi	Posted - 2010.06.30 21:51:00 - [430] 1) Remove learning skills and let players reassign learning skill points as they see fit. 2) Rebalance training times to compensate for lower attribute scores. 3) Profit. I have all learning skills to 5/4 and I'd much rather have them in stuff that has to do with explosions. Learning skills are also eye-wateringly boring for new players. Removing them as per above suggestion is a win-win scenarion. Everyone likes win.

Atsuko Ratu Caldari Quafe Industries	Posted - 2010.06.30 21:55:00 - [431] Originally by: Bonny Lee I remember what a pain it was to get learnings to 5 and then advanced to 4 (yes i know now only 4/4). If CCP decides to get rid of learnings 3 things must happen if they want me to be satisfied. 1. All people get +10 as baseline 2. All people get the EXACT amount of SP invested 3. Those SP will be applied with the new tool. So not only do you want free attributes (the learning skills you did not train) you also want free SP that you do not deserve? Derp. If they remove learning skills and give everyone +10 and learning 5, the only possible way you won't benefit is if you already have 5/5. Any other scenario and you gained attributes and time. Stop asking for unrealistic ****.
Viral Effect Caldari BRAINDEAD Corp	Posted - 2010.06.30 21:57:00 - [432] Removing learning skills is definitely not a win-win scenario. CCP themselves acknowledged the obvious truth that it will anger allot of people. CCP said that one day they might pick the option that would anger the least amount of people. As far as I am concerned the method that has been suggested that would probably anger the least amount of people would be to give everyone the learning skills and use the new sp allocation system we now have to give a sp re-numeration to the players that have already trained them.
Drebble Gallente North Star Networks The Kadeshi	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:14:00 - [433] Originally by: Viral Effect Removing learning skills is definitely not a win-win scenario. CCP themselves acknowledged the obvious truth that it will anger allot of people. CCP said that one day they might pick the option that would anger the least amount of people. As far as I am concerned the method that has been suggested that would probably anger the least amount of people would be to give everyone the learning skills and use the new sp allocation system we now have to give a sp re-numeration to the players that have already trained them. Why would anyone be angry with learning skills being removed, if they get the skill points back and it still takes exactly the same time to train skills? confused
Viral Effect Caldari BRAINDEAD Corp	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:22:00 - [434] Originally by: Drebble Why would anyone be angry with learning skills being removed, if they get the skill points back and it still takes exactly the same time to train skills? confused Are you really that naive? Try reading some of the very heated replies to any ideas like this one. ItÆs not just about replacing stats and compensating for loss. You are actively trying to dumb down our game. We donÆt want it.
Space Monster	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:37:00 - [435] Edited by: Space Monster on 30/06/2010 22:36:48
Frank d'Fairy	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:39:00 - [436] Edited by: Frank d''Fairy on 30/06/2010 22:39:58 Originally by: Viral Effect Originally by: Drebble Why would anyone be angry with learning skills being removed, if they get the skill points back and it still takes exactly the same time to train skills? confused Are you really that naive? Try reading some of the very heated replies to any ideas like this one. ItÆs not just about replacing stats and compensating for loss. You are actively trying to dumb down our game. We donÆt want it. Translation here is: I have played EVE for longer than you and I would pitch a hissy-fit if anyone dared gain a modi****of advantage on my skillplan, despite the fact I would still remain far, far ahead of anyone who began playing after I did. So to these brain-dead people: I don't care if some rookie never has to train learning skills even if I did 5/5 on all my accounts to date) and neither should you. Internet Spaceship Egos need to die.
Omish Dave	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:42:00 - [437] I'd like to see learning skills stay. It adds spice to character development and haven't seen a solid reason yet why they should be removed. As someone else said, don't dumb down Eve.
Drebble Gallente North Star Networks The Kadeshi	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:43:00 - [438] Originally by: Viral Effect Are you really that naive? Try reading some of the very heated replies to any ideas like this one. ItÆs not just about replacing stats and compensating for loss. You are actively trying to dumb down our game. We donÆt want it. I like the complexity of EVE, I would NOT want it to become WOW-ish. I agree with you 100% there. But there are plenty of both strategic and tactical complexity in skill progression even without learning skills. To me learning skills is a bad mechanic. An ugly stepchild of WOW-like grinding mechanics. EVE would be even better with out it.
Drebble Gallente North Star Networks The Kadeshi	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:48:00 - [439] Originally by: Omish Dave I'd like to see learning skills stay. It adds spice to character development and haven't seen a solid reason yet why they should be removed. As someone else said, don't dumb down Eve. Here's my reason: New players that have a brain or a mentor "have" to spend about a month training skills that do jack **** except pay back three years from now when all they want to do is get in a ship and be blown up by me right away. And since everyone trains them, they don't really have an affect. The only reason to keep them is wanting to make life miserable for new players FOR NO VALID REASON.
Omish Dave	Posted - 2010.06.30 22:58:00 - [440] Originally by: Drebble Here's my reason: New players .... "have" to spend about a month training skills that do jack **** except pay back three years from now... And since everyone trains them, they don't really have an affect. Ah yes, good point. I forgot how my first couple months in Eve was training just to train better later. Almost made me lose interest. I honestly played something else for those first few months while i trained learning skills. To late to change my mind?

Kojaimea Sakamoto	Posted - 2010.06.30 23:40:00 - [441] hello this is my first post on the CCP forums, i am an old pilot from 04, but i now have a new account after giving up the previous one for many reasons 2 years ago. i have spent 2 months training mainly learning skills (still not finished) whilst mixed in with other things. e.g. i only just got my first cruiser 2 months into the game! and yet my training is still not finished. if i did not know how beautiful EVE is then i would probably have quit by now due to the fact that i can never catch up and that training learning skills is so boring. what does this mean for me in the long run? it means that i have to find a ship i like the look of after putting in lots of reasearch. then i have to specialise in that ship to stand any chance in a head to head fight with an older character. removing the learning skills stops the boredom, giving me 2 months to experiment with ships that i like and train a variety of things instead. as a new character it is overwhelming to have so many skills to train, so many things to try that spending most of my time training learning skills seems annoying when if a new player thinks all EVE might be like this then they wont stick arounnd long enough for the learning skills to pay off. thank you kojaimea
Derkata Gallente	Posted - 2010.07.01 01:16:00 - [442] +1 for removing learning skills and giving everyone the same amount of + attributes. Then give however many SP are in learning to be placed wherever the player sees fit. The people who have had the skills for a long time got more use out of them than other players (since people like me aren't maxed, someone with 5s in learning is training faster than me) so it isn't like they lose anything.
Felix Esperium Lysergic Distortions Research and Development	Posted - 2010.07.01 01:58:00 - [443] How many people would be in favor of removing them and not getting a free +10 on attributes? seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too.
Cash Render	Posted - 2010.07.01 04:59:00 - [444] Another reason some of us would be against the removal of learnign skills, aside from not wating instant gratification for new players or dumbing down our game, would be the fact we had to PAY our subscriptions for that trainign period. NOt with ISK, but codl hard real life currency. So tell you what, CCP wants to give me back my invested skill points AND either $30 per account or skill point equivelent to roughly 2 months, and I think I could let it slide. Going by Tuesday's skill point distribution, that'd be roughly 6million skill points to compensate my two months of wasted time. If CCP will do that for all my characters that have trained the learning skills, I will be more than happy to side with the +10, remove them, and reimburse the older players.
Xordel	Posted - 2010.07.01 05:35:00 - [445] Well it would be better if you guys would support this in the assembly hall rather than just posting about it. The only one's able to talk to CCP about such changes are the CSM so if you support it why not show your support using this thread. This thread has 15 pages while the CSM proposal that would make a difference only has 10. Ranting about it wouldn't solve anything.
Vo Yager	Posted - 2010.07.01 11:48:00 - [446] Quote: So tell you what, CCP wants to give me back my invested skill points AND either $30 per account or skill point equivelent to roughly 2 months, and I think I could let it slide. The hell? You want two helpings of skillpoints when you only paid for one?
Mashie Saldana Red Federation	Posted - 2010.07.01 11:57:00 - [447] Originally by: Felix Esperium How many people would be in favor of removing them and not getting a free +10 on attributes? seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too. No we want the CONCEPT of learning skills removed. With learning skills removed, attributes increased and SP reallocated it will be as if learning skills never EXISTED.
Cash Render	Posted - 2010.07.01 12:20:00 - [448] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Felix Esperium How many people would be in favor of removing them and not getting a free +10 on attributes? seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too. No we want the CONCEPT of learning skills removed. With learning skills removed, attributes increased and SP reallocated it will be as if learning skills never EXISTED. Actually, removing the benifit they provide would be as if they never EXISTED. Giving people they bonus they provide is simply granting instant gratification since the bonus only exists becasue the skill does. Originally by: Vo Yager Quote: So tell you what, CCP wants to give me back my invested skill points AND either $30 per account or skill point equivelent to roughly 2 months, and I think I could let it slide. The hell? You want two helpings of skillpoints when you only paid for one? No, what I want is reimbursment for the time I wasted. As I said, my $30 per account or the skill points that I would have spent elsewhere. As I clearly stated, I spent real life money on those two months learnign those skills per an account, and CCP can't give me the time back, so I want atleast the money or the wate SP equivelent to such. I.E. 60 days worth of SP as Tuesday's distribution would equate to. Havign wasted RL money and time is far more a problem than wasting in game skilling time.
Takseen	Posted - 2010.07.01 13:01:00 - [449] Originally by: Cash Render No, what I want is reimbursment for the time I wasted. As I said, my $30 per account or the skill points that I would have spent elsewhere. As I clearly stated, I spent real life money on those two months learnign those skills per an account, and CCP can't give me the time back, so I want atleast the money or the wate SP equivelent to such. I.E. 60 days worth of SP as Tuesday's distribution would equate to. Havign wasted RL money and time is far more a problem than wasting in game skilling time. Um, isn't that the most common suggestion floating about? Namely that you get reimbursed all the skill points you put into learning skills and are free to allocate them as you wish. The whole reason these threads have kicked into overdrive is speculation that CCP introduced the skill allocation mechanism to do precisely that.
Vo Yager	Posted - 2010.07.01 22:51:00 - [450] Edited by: Vo Yager on 01/07/2010 22:52:36 Quote: No, what I want is reimbursment for the time I wasted. And you'll get that if CCP reimburses you all the skillpoints that you put into Learning. That's what your $30 paid for (as well as the ability to, you know, play the game). If you get those skillpoints back and get to put them into something else, then everything's square. To sum up: Quote: my invested skill points = Quote: either $30 per account or skill point equivelent to roughly 2 months You don't get to stick an AND in between and ask for both.



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