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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:42:00 -
[1]
Basic analysis of Vagabond vs. Cynabal.
Cynabal:
- Extra midslot allows a much wider range of fittings.
- Significantly more agile. With 2 nanofibers, can usually warp before being pointed by an interceptor.
- Larger drone bay and bandwidth - 50 vs. 25.
- More powergrid - much easier fitting.
- 4 guns vs. 5 means you can overheat longer.
- Higher scan resolution.
- Slightly higher sensor strength.
- Easier to train for (Gallente Cruiser vs HAC).
- Looks awesome and scares opponents into submission by its mere presence on the field.
Vagabond:
- Native T2 resists, which means better survivability when remote-repped and/or neuted.
- More cap-stable (assuming an invuln-fit Cynabal).
- Bigger cargohold (for loot).
- Warps faster (3.75au/s vs. 3au/s).
- About 40mil cheaper at the moment.
- Not as scary, so hostiles are more willing to engage it.
- Not as juicy of a target in fleet fights.
Did I forget anything?
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le bamba
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:52:00 -
[2]
cynabal gets much more falloff imo
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:55:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: le bamba
cynabal gets much more falloff imo
No, they both get 10% per skill level (HAC for Vaga, Gallente Cruiser for Cynabal).
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.25 08:55:00 -
[4]
- Bigger cargohold (for loot). [lol
- More cap-stable (assuming an invuln-fit Cynabal).(bad fit)
- Warps faster (3.75au/s vs. 3au/s). Cynabal warps faster
- Not as scary, so hostiles are more willing to engage it. [lol
- Not as juicy of a target in fleet fights. [lol
Only advantage vagabond have is t2 resists which cynabal should compensate with t2 rigs + 1 more LSE
P.S. petition to remove Cynabal bpo
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.03.25 10:04:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 25/03/2010 10:05:20
Originally by: Stygian Knight
- Warps faster (3.75au/s vs. 3au/s). Cynabal warps faster
Someone needs to take their 2nd grade math again.
On short warps, where alignment time dominates, the Cynabal will get there faster. On longer warps, the Vagabond will overtake it.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.03.25 10:20:00 -
[6]
Vagabond description says it should be the fastest cruiser in eve. Its not. CCP SHOULD fix that. Make vagabond a tiny bit faster (5% ). Otherwise vagabond is now a worthless ship (when compared to cynabal).
On the case of BOTH cynabal and vigilant ccp forgot their pirate shisp went straight into the HACs toes and simply made the deimos (That already was bad) and the vagabond useless.
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.25 10:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 25/03/2010 10:05:20
Originally by: Stygian Knight
- Warps faster (3.75au/s vs. 3au/s). Cynabal warps faster
Someone needs to take their 2nd grade math again.
On short warps, where alignment time dominates, the Cynabal will get there faster. On longer warps, the Vagabond will overtake it.
dude, who gives a fuk who warps faster, what matters is who aligns faster !
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Stygian Knight
dude, who gives a fuk who warps faster, what matters is who aligns faster !
In some situations it's important (such as chasing a hostile gang, running away from one, burning towards a hostile carrier tackled 40 jumps away etc.)
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:07:00 -
[9]
i dont think anyone would get a vaga over a cyna because it warped 25% faster.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr
Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 25/03/2010 11:15:17
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 25/03/2010 11:11:51
Originally by: le bamba
cynabal gets much more falloff imo
Well ok....+10% Falloff because Cynabal usually fits 425s instead of 220s. "much more falloff is kinda much different.
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Basic analysis of Vagabond vs. Cynabal.
Vagabond:
Native T2 resists, which means better survivability when remote-repped and/or neuted.
remote rep yes. Neuted? why? EHP is EHP...regardless of t2 resists or not. Vaga has its weakness on kin/expl and cynabal on em/therm.
@Faffywaffy: Whats your fitting? I already know of 2x Nanofiber and an invul field 
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Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
In some situations it's important (such as chasing a hostile gang, running away from one, burning towards a hostile carrier tackled 40 jumps away etc.)
it's ALIGN TIME that's important, NOT WARPING SPEED. lulz
oh wait, why would i run away from hostile gang if i look awesome and scares opponents into submission by its mere presence on the field.
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Vagabond description says it should be the fastest cruiser in eve. Its not. CCP SHOULD fix that. Make vagabond a tiny bit faster (5% ). Otherwise vagabond is now a worthless ship (when compared to cynabal).
On the case of BOTH cynabal and vigilant ccp forgot their pirate shisp went straight into the HACs toes and simply made the deimos (That already was bad) and the vagabond useless.
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
After i seen so many posts on forum i actualy got in one well was back in vaga 30 min later.
I take it this way vaga ask for more skills at lvl 5, so cyn is kind for low sp pilots. And no you can argue all you want is not as efectiff as the vaga.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.03.25 11:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
wiht 2 nanos each the cyna is a tiny bit faster with a massivky better align time.
flying a vaga is like flying a really fast cruiser, flying a cyna is like flying a fast frigate.
but whatever, dont buy and fly cynabals they are sucky.
more for me \o/
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le bamba
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Posted - 2010.03.25 12:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Originally by: le bamba
cynabal gets much more falloff imo
No, they both get 10% per skill level (HAC for Vaga, Gallente Cruiser for Cynabal).
so u can fit 425 acs and 2 te on your vaga without gimping your setup?
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
wiht 2 nanos each the cyna is a tiny bit faster with a massivky better align time.
flying a vaga is like flying a really fast cruiser, flying a cyna is like flying a fast frigate.
but whatever, dont buy and fly cynabals they are sucky.
more for me \o/
well more KM for me i guss  you using two nano will make you use 220's cos 425 won't track = one more gun for me = guss what.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tian Nu
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
wiht 2 nanos each the cyna is a tiny bit faster with a massivky better align time.
flying a vaga is like flying a really fast cruiser, flying a cyna is like flying a fast frigate.
but whatever, dont buy and fly cynabals they are sucky.
more for me \o/
well more KM for me i guss you using two nano will make you use 220's cos 425 won't track = one more gun for me = guss what.
I fly a cyna with 425s with one TE, hits everything just fine. But then i pilot it properly so i dont rely on mods to make up for my non orbit-everything technique. Im posting in this thread with my actual experiences to aid others to decide between the two ships, since the faction ship changes i much prefer the cyna.
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tian Nu on 25/03/2010 13:15:54
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Tian Nu
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
wiht 2 nanos each the cyna is a tiny bit faster with a massivky better align time.
flying a vaga is like flying a really fast cruiser, flying a cyna is like flying a fast frigate.
but whatever, dont buy and fly cynabals they are sucky.
more for me \o/
well more KM for me i guss you using two nano will make you use 220's cos 425 won't track = one more gun for me = guss what.
I fly a cyna with 425s with one TE, hits everything just fine. But then i pilot it properly so i dont rely on mods to make up for my non orbit-everything technique. Im posting in this thread with my actual experiences to aid others to decide between the two ships, since the faction ship changes i much prefer the cyna.
i need NO? NO NO emote pls CCP. Read both you posts then read what you quoted from me then find the mistake. i give you hint 'wiht 2 nanos each the cyna' 
PS, i just realyze why i even debate oin this Cyn is the god of all ships pls buy them.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:26:00 -
[18]
Basic analysis of Vagabond vs Cynabal:
There is zero reason to fly a Vagabond if you have Gall Cruiser V.
- Intigo
PS: Don't you fly scram-Cynabals? 
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:28:00 -
[19]
are you comparing a dual nanoed vaga to a non nanoed cyna then?
because if you are your very stupid.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.03.25 13:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/03/2010 13:48:04
I don't understand the 425s won't track comments, honestly. I mean, yeah, if you need to hit interceptors in orbit while sitting stationary then 425s without TEs are going to be a bit problematic (as will anything tbh). For firing on anything cruiser-sized, unless you're doing something inexplicably stupid even 720mm arty tracks just fine, much less 425s.
Besides, even if you choose to use 220s and only light drones on the Cynabal the Vagabond gains 2.9% more DPS over it, at expense of everything else.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.25 14:03:00 -
[21]
medium neuts
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pyyKtas
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Posted - 2010.03.25 14:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
After i seen so many posts on forum i actualy got in one well was back in vaga 30 min later.
I take it this way vaga ask for more skills at lvl 5, so cyn is kind for low sp pilots. And no you can argue all you want is not as efectiff as the vaga.
You better stop getting high on whatever you get high on and go out and actually fly both ships. Cynabal has almost identical speed as vaga with far superior align times. Not to mention higher tank/dps. My cynabal would rip your vaga apart and the best part is i doubt you would even have a chance to run away (unless u're fit with full snake set and full polycarbs/nano setup, in which case your tank probably melt before you actually get out of point range).
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.25 15:06:00 -
[23]
I can fit 425s on my Vagabond and hit just fine...okay, except for interceptors, but most cruiser-sized guns have trouble with that, but 5 Warrior IIs make up for that small problem. 
By the way, this is my signature.
TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.25 16:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
I can fit 425s on my Vagabond and hit just fine...okay, except for interceptors, but most cruiser-sized guns have trouble with that, but 5 Warrior IIs make up for that small problem.
If your Vaga fit has 425s it is most likely really, really bad.
- Intigo
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Demolishar
G-Force Enterprises
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.03.25 17:59:00 -
[25]
Apparently the Cynabal has never heard of "diminishing returns on isk spent". For 40M more than a Vaga, you get a ship that is better in the Vaga in virtually every way. This would be OK if it was proportional to the cost, but the Cynabal has huge advantages over the Vaga in terms of it's agility, and it's ability to deploy ECM drones as well as minor but still noticeable advantages at everything else. It really needs to be nerfed to a level where the Cynabal does some things a good bit better than the Vaga (say 25%) but the Vaga does some things a little bit better than the Cyna (say 10%). Not the current situation where the Cynabal does some things 100% better than the vaga (agility), and everything else 20-50% better than the Vaga (ehp, dps, falloff, dronebay etc).
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.25 18:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Basic analysis of Vagabond vs Cynabal:
There is zero reason to fly a Vagabond if you have Gall Cruiser V.
- Intigo
/thread
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.03.25 18:25:00 -
[27]
sadly at the current prices with expensive HACs and cheap cynabals there is really no point in ever flying a vagabond :(
things would be nice if HACs were 80 mil and vaga got its old agility back (during the agility boost period).
also... I'm doing my utmost to resist trolling faffys cynabal fits which have ecm drones and scrambler and makes me rage a lot.
Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.03.25 18:57:00 -
[28]
Three rigs on cynabal
Two on vaga
SKUNK
(o)
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Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Z.E.R.G
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:16:00 -
[29]
Now somebody just boost the Phantasm to be in line with the cynabal. 
________
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.25 19:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Agent Unknown
I can fit 425s on my Vagabond and hit just fine...okay, except for interceptors, but most cruiser-sized guns have trouble with that, but 5 Warrior IIs make up for that small problem.
If your Vaga fit has 425s it is most likely really, really bad.
- Intigo
[Vagabond, 425mm]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
(Misc. utility slot (cloak, small NOS, etc))
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Warrior II x5
Sure, it pumps out less DPS then the 220mm fit, but it has 32k EHP (9k shields), which lets you live a bit longer, although heavy missiles hurt.
By the way, this is my signature.
TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.03.25 20:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.25 20:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
Don't knock it until you try it. I've killed plenty with the fit and haven't lost a single one (except to a friendly POS, but that doesn't count.  ).
It has 1m20s of cap with the MWD and disruptor, so it's plenty of time to tackle and hold it down. It can also double as a ratting ship if you so desire (with no modifications).
By the way, this is my signature.
TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.03.25 21:24:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/03/2010 21:25:19
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Hmm, its a matter of perception I guess, the looks is the only reason why I still fly my vagabond, the cynabal is just so hideously ugly, turned upside down it looks just like a turd someone stepped on and slid.
What! The whole Stabber line is hideous. I actually like some of the ships (fleet Stabber) but it's so ugly to look at I can't bear to fly it for longer then five minutes.
Sure, the Cynabal isn't perfect like the Machariel but it has overall decent looks. I had a few way back when they were a glorified speedy Rupture, but since I only flew them if I was drunk both resulted in two amazingly hillarious losses. I also killed a Vagabond in one using Hail M.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.25 21:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
Don't knock it until you try it. I've killed plenty with the fit and haven't lost a single one (except to a friendly POS, but that doesn't count. ).
It has 1m20s of cap with the MWD and disruptor, so it's plenty of time to tackle and hold it down. It can also double as a ratting ship if you so desire (with no modifications).
The fit is absolutely horrendous. There is no defending it.
- Intigo
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.25 23:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
Don't knock it until you try it. I've killed plenty with the fit and haven't lost a single one (except to a friendly POS, but that doesn't count. ).
It has 1m20s of cap with the MWD and disruptor, so it's plenty of time to tackle and hold it down. It can also double as a ratting ship if you so desire (with no modifications).
The fit is absolutely horrendous. There is no defending it.
- Intigo
Okay then, explain why it's so horrible then.
By the way, this is my signature.
TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
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Professional Retard
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Posted - 2010.03.25 23:12:00 -
[36]
this is the interwebz, ur fit sucks...your argument is invalid
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.25 23:36:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Tian Nu on 25/03/2010 23:40:13
Originally by: pyyKtas
Originally by: Tian Nu
Vaga is mucho faster that cyn, maxed skilled vaga pilot whith two nano (no implants) make it go over 3100 km/s while cyn cant even reach 2500 km/s (whith same skills) mostly cos ppl use 425 guns and doing so fit tracking mods in lows.
After i seen so many posts on forum i actualy got in one well was back in vaga 30 min later.
I take it this way vaga ask for more skills at lvl 5, so cyn is kind for low sp pilots. And no you can argue all you want is not as efectiff as the vaga.
You better stop getting high on whatever you get high on and go out and actually fly both ships. Cynabal has almost identical speed as vaga with far superior align times. Not to mention higher tank/dps. My cynabal would rip your vaga apart and the best part is i doubt you would even have a chance to run away (unless u're fit with full snake set and full polycarbs/nano setup, in which case your tank probably melt before you actually get out of point range).
there is reson no one posted km on me and i go ofen in 0.0 and i DO SOLO YOU BICHES xD
PS. you can call for dual am know on test server as making ganks go boom
and for the ppl that use 425 http://web.archive.org/web/20071223162431/www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp so you can finaly know how traking works you orbiting mongols !
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rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.03.26 00:32:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. |
Gavin Darklighter
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.03.26 01:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Agent Unknown
[Vagabond, 425mm]
:facepalm:
Don't knock it until you try it. I've killed plenty with the fit and haven't lost a single one (except to a friendly POS, but that doesn't count. ).
It has 1m20s of cap with the MWD and disruptor, so it's plenty of time to tackle and hold it down. It can also double as a ratting ship if you so desire (with no modifications).
That is just about the worst vaga fit i've ever seen. Tell me, whats the point of using 425mm autocannons if you only fit one gyro and no tracking enhancers?
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.03.26 01:29:00 -
[40]
Cynabal also has a third rig slot.
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.26 05:58:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Okay then, explain why it's so horrible then.
It has, compared to a standard 220 setup:
1) No room for Medium Neut.
2) Less falloff.
3) Less DPS.
4) Less tracking.
5) 2 MOTHEREFFING PDS, WHAT MADE YOU THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA?!
You don't need cap stability on a Vagabond, you need piloting skills.
- Intigo
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.26 08:52:00 -
[42]
every vagabond or cynabal without medium neut is a fail fit.
there is no utility slot, there is only medium neut if you pvp.
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64ND4LF
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Posted - 2010.03.26 09:55:00 -
[43]
Edited by: 64ND4LF on 26/03/2010 10:05:03
Edited by: 64ND4LF on 26/03/2010 10:04:45
Edited by: 64ND4LF on 26/03/2010 10:03:19
Edited by: 64ND4LF on 26/03/2010 09:57:12
Edited by: 64ND4LF on 26/03/2010 09:56:56
Lows
[Tracking Enhancer II]
[Tracking Enhancer II]
[Tracking Enhancer II]
[Gyrostabilizer II]
[Gyrostabilizer II]
Mids
[Large Shield Extender II]
[10MN Microwarpdrive II]
[Warp Disruptor II]
[Sensor Booster, Tracking Disruptor, Invul Field, or w/e tickles your fancy.]
Highs
[425mm AutoCannon II]
[425mm AutoCannon II]
[425mm AutoCannon II]
[425mm AutoCannon II]
[425mm AutoCannon II]
[Small Energy Neut II]
Rigs
[Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I]
[Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I]
Drones
5 Warrior II's
2746 m/s
With three tracking enhancers, it has 52km falloff with barrage. Can also put gyro in place of TE.
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.26 10:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: 64ND4LF
pro tip.
-use 220 there is a reason why
-you need 2x LSE ( no this is not utility spot... LOL)
-3x TE is fail, use 3x gyro, 2x TE
-medium neut (you obviously haven't used it yet) - it is a must
-fit 1x PG rig to fit all that if u dont have skills
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.03.26 10:24:00 -
[45]
A the old myths that people preserve and preach blindly.
The 220mm vs 425mm has one reason. PG. The tracking issue is just a MYTH. Anyoen that have tried the 425mm know it can track very well all the targets that you do attack in a vagabond.. because you don even orbit them. And nothing can orbit a vagabond that is not something that you would require the Neut to deal with anyway (i.e. an interceptors or fast frigate).
The Real effective chance to hit usually is HIGHER with 425mm because the falloff is higher, the drop on the falloff penalty more than compensate then tracking on most scenarios. If you ORBIT targets in a vagabond with MWD on you doing it so wrong you should go back to t1 frigates!
If the vagabond had more PG most people WOULD be using 425mm AC. One of my chars uses a pimped faction vagabond (well used until cynabals made vagas obsolete) with faction extenders, MWD, neuts for a bit more grid also I can fit a FEW 425mm alongside the 220mm. It does help a lot with both DPS and falloff.
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64ND4LF
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Posted - 2010.03.26 10:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Stygian Knight
Originally by: 64ND4LF
pro tip.
-use 220 there is a reason why
-you need 2x LSE ( no this is not utility spot... LOL)
-3x TE is fail, use 3x gyro, 2x TE
-medium neut (you obviously haven't used it yet) - it is a must
-fit 1x PG rig to fit all that if u dont have skills
WTB Snakes on a plane 
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Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.03.26 11:13:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
A the old myths that people preserve and preach blindly.
Very true.
Always fit the highest rack of guns you can, tracking is not an issue. If you have issues tracking then you are a bad pilot, EOD.
Vaga uses 220s, Cyna uses 425s only because the Cynabal has no PG issues and the Vagabond does.
- Intigo
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.03.26 11:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Vaga uses 220s, Cyna uses 425s only because the Cynabal has no PG issues and the Vagabond does.
- Intigo
ding ding, we have a winner!
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Miss Xoco
Minmatar
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2010.03.26 13:16:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 26/03/2010 13:23:06
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 26/03/2010 13:19:59
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 26/03/2010 13:16:57
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Vagabond description says it should be the fastest cruiser in eve. Its not. CCP SHOULD fix that. Make vagabond a tiny bit faster (5% ). Otherwise vagabond is now a worthless ship (when compared to cynabal).
On the case of BOTH cynabal and vigilant ccp forgot their pirate shisp went straight into the HACs toes and simply made the deimos (That already was bad) and the vagabond useless.
I tell you, im very happy that Vagabond isnt anymore the "superior every jerk needs to use and shot all BS and what else and screw Muninn" ship. Its finally a usual PVP ship like any other such as Muninn (well Muninn ist still weaker, because doesnt nearly have the same agility and the firepower doesnt make up for it). If anything else should get boost its Muninn so i can finally blast a Vaga with.
So yes, its awesome that the Cynabal finally is powerful. Its a expensive faction ship and that is just how it should be. Maybe increase its price even more in term the Cynabal got to much popularity.
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pyyKtas
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Posted - 2010.03.26 14:28:00 -
[50]
god people are fuking stupid. You are comparing 2 ships and assume that 1 suddenly becomes useless because the other one is better. Vaga is still amazing ship so get over it
The only real issue is the cost and availability of cynabals. I would expect them to cost around 2x the vaga cost but then i would naturally expect them to be value for money.
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.26 20:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
A the old myths that people preserve and preach blindly.
The 220mm vs 425mm has one reason. PG. The tracking issue is just a MYTH. Anyoen that have tried the 425mm know it can track very well all the targets that you do attack in a vagabond.. because you don even orbit them. And nothing can orbit a vagabond that is not something that you would require the Neut to deal with anyway (i.e. an interceptors or fast frigate).
The Real effective chance to hit usually is HIGHER with 425mm because the falloff is higher, the drop on the falloff penalty more than compensate then tracking on most scenarios. If you ORBIT targets in a vagabond with MWD on you doing it so wrong you should go back to t1 frigates!
If the vagabond had more PG most people WOULD be using 425mm AC. One of my chars uses a pimped faction vagabond (well used until cynabals made vagas obsolete) with faction extenders, MWD, neuts for a bit more grid also I can fit a FEW 425mm alongside the 220mm. It does help a lot with both DPS and falloff.
Good tips. I really think people should think outside the box instead of only using the one "best" fit for every ship. Plus, you tend to catch people off guard with 425s on a vaga, and that's even better.
As for the 2x PDS, you can drop one for a RCU and have another gyro if you so desire. I use them because they also provide extra shields as well as cap. There's no way to make a vaga cap stable with MWD (and it doesn't need to be), but that extra cycle could save your ass one day.
By the way, this is my signature.
TeamSpeak For EVE - API-controlled TeamSpeak 3 Access!
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.03.26 21:36:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tian Nu on 26/03/2010 21:37:28
so much BS in this tread is scary look like trolls is the new EvE standards.
for any one serious about pvp read the guides made by ppl that realy know :
TRAKING ONCE FOR ALL
stop lisenning to ppl that obviously got no clue how turet falow ship that is doing over 3100 km/s whith pilot that can apply high transversal to the oponent.
Jesus guys.
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drake duka
Minmatar
D00M.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.03.26 22:40:00 -
[53]
Cyna is much better than the vaga no doubt, the main advantage is the crazy agility (3s align time with 1 nano) meaning you don't need as much nano/speed rigs as the vaga would.
Drone bay is also useful but using 5 med drones would be pointless for such a fast ship so it's mostly for utility (set of ec-300 or spare lights). The easier fitting is a big part definitely but other than those things ;) the vaga almost keeps up because of t2 resists which an extra rig slot can't compensate for. Invuln cyna may be a bad fit but without the invuln your ehp and resists more importantly are lower than a vaga which is detrimental in shield gangs.
BTW what was the point of this thread? (I'm realizing this at the end of my post lol)
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:12:00 -
[54]
Updated.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 14/05/2010 04:27:01
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 14/05/2010 04:12:01
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 14/05/2010 04:10:38
[NEW] 3 rig slots vs. 2 on the Cynabal.
[/list]
Did I forget anything?
Get out.
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 14/05/2010 04:27:01
Originally by: Faffywaffy
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 14/05/2010 04:12:01
Edited by: Faffywaffy on 14/05/2010 04:10:38
[NEW] 3 rig slots vs. 2 on the Cynabal.
[/list]
Did I forget anything?
Get out.
Err, the other way around. Fixed :-)
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 07:48:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 14/05/2010 07:53:21
Originally by: Tian Nu
TRAKING ONCE FOR ALL
stop lisenning to ppl that obviously got no clue how turet falow ship that is doing over 3100 km/s whith pilot that can apply high transversal to the oponent.
Jesus guys.
That's pretty, but this is much more useful:
Chance to Hit Formula, Once and For All Until Someone Empirically Derives Something Better
Statistics is on the side of 425mm if you don't gimp your setup to fit them. The greater range counteracts the greater tracking of 220mm (falloff and tracking factor virtually equally into chance to hit) once you include the superior damage of 425s in the equation.
220s only beat 425s when a tiny ship is already orbiting you at a range that you do **** damage regardless of what you're using, or if you sacrifice far too much to fit them. The margin of superiority for 220s is an incredibly narrow 500m at high transversal.
On a different note...Intigo, I almost always agree with what you're saying, and often learn a thing or two when you take the time to explain yourself. But you cure the forum of an idiot sooner if you explain why someone is wrong in the same post you claim that they are wrong.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2010.05.14 09:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
The fit is absolutely horrendous. There is no defending it.
Okay then, explain why it's so horrible then.
They are wrong it's a perfect fit, you couldn't possibly lose it to a Taranis...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Amarr Supremacist
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Posted - 2010.05.14 15:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
On a different note...Intigo, I almost always agree with what you're saying, and often learn a thing or two when you take the time to explain yourself. But you cure the forum of an idiot sooner if you explain why someone is wrong in the same post you claim that they are wrong.
But that takes sooo much time! 
____________
Intigo - go visit www.eve-arena.com for the best Battleclinic killboard replacement yet! |
Calapine
Xeno Tech Corp
MACHI MISCHIEF
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Posted - 2010.05.30 04:57:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Calapine on 30/05/2010 04:59:41
Originally by: Seishi Maru
If you ORBIT targets in a vagabond with MWD on you doing it so wrong you should go back to t1 frigates!
Disclaimer: I neither have a Cynabel nor Vagabond and I am a good two days away from T2 barrage goodness, so this is a genuine question:
If you don't orbit or MWD...how is the Vagabond flown then? Manually piloting and trying to keep transversal high without resorting to AB/MWD? Are the 400 m/s a Vaga with speedrigs does enough for that?
Any input is greatly appreciated.
Cala
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.30 05:27:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Seriously Bored
On a different note...Intigo, I almost always agree with what you're saying, and often learn a thing or two when you take the time to explain yourself. But you cure the forum of an idiot sooner if you explain why someone is wrong in the same post you claim that they are wrong.
But that takes sooo much time!
But you come off as less of an arrogant *******... and its so much sweeter when they finally say "Oh. Yeah. You're right."
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:00:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Agent Unknown
Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Agent Unknown
I can fit 425s on my Vagabond and hit just fine...okay, except for interceptors, but most cruiser-sized guns have trouble with that, but 5 Warrior IIs make up for that small problem.
If your Vaga fit has 425s it is most likely really, really bad.
- Intigo
[Vagabond, 425mm]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
(Misc. utility slot (cloak, small NOS, etc))
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
Warrior II x5
Sure, it pumps out less DPS then the 220mm fit, but it has 32k EHP (9k shields), which lets you live a bit longer, although heavy missiles hurt.
Delete EFT.
Now.
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Stuart Price
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:48:00 -
[63]
Am I the only person fitting d180's on Vaga's?
5 x Dual 180mm AC II
1 x Med Neut
1 x MWD II
1 x Warp Disruptor II
2 x LSE II
1 x DC II
2 x Gyro II
2 x TE II
2 x Med Polycarb I
Some drones and stuff.
Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
CyberRaver
Silentium Mortalitas
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:52:00 -
[64]
The cynabal is a vaga without any of its downsides, and needs to be nerfed into the ground, with the ease of getting into one compared to a vagabond which requires a lot more training they should not be a superior ship
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:14:00 -
[65]
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 30/05/2010 10:21:16
Edited by: arbiter reborn on 30/05/2010 10:14:43
Originally by: Stuart Price
Am I the only person fitting d180's on Vaga's?
5 x Dual 180mm AC II
1 x Med Neut
1 x MWD II
1 x Warp Disruptor II
2 x LSE II
1 x DC II
2 x Gyro II
2 x TE II
2 x Med Polycarb I
Some drones and stuff.
yes becuse 220s fit with that fit if you buy a +1 and a yt8
here is a fine example http://voltron.eve-kill.net//?a=kill_detail&kll_id=6463346
i got a few at least :(
asfor the more general question, cynabal can dual prop which makes it tank missiles like no tomorow but really its never been a deciding factor in wether i live or die. generally if your gonna die in a vaga youlda died in a cyn.
i like the t2 resists due to logi help and i like the vaga just because the ship is so legendary, imo there is something just not right about these good faction ships, i miss my cynabal when it couldnt do anything, it was like an acomplishment to kill a t1 cruiser lol. actually made you feel like a leet pirate
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