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Myrmidon - Petition

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Arturo Vetronas	Posted - 2010.03.30 04:59:00 - [1] Before the flaming starts let me just say I looked through the Ships and Modules section and decided that this didn't belong there because that is more oriented towards various fittings and uses of the myrm as it currently exists in the game. Looking through this section it seems more oriented towards changing things from how they currently exist in the game. Therefore, I hope this is the right spot and if it is not then I'm sorry for the inconvenience and please move it to where it is most appropriate. /disclaimer The Myrmidon: I'm asking you to post here in support, or against (and why) of my petition to make the following changes to the Myrmidon: 1) increase the drone bandwidth to 125 Mbit/sec 2) decrease the PG to around 1200 Why? 1) there have been a lot of good points made about a degree of parity with the ishtar so I'll leave it at that: Myrm should be able to have 5x Ogres 2) lowering the PG would address the potential for a myrmidon to be a strong ship on its own before adding in the drones, it would have to rely much more on its drones to kill BC+ targets while only fitting a couple nos/neuts OR only small class weaponry in addition to its tank/propulsion mod
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.30 05:37:00 - [2] Originally by: Arturo Vetronas 1) increase the drone bandwidth to 125 Mbit/sec It will make him overpowered (the only reason why myrmidon was nerfed). It already has a DPS with Senties better then other BCs... You shouldn't compare BC to HAC, you should compare BC to another BCs (e.g. Harbinger, Drake and Hurricane) Quote: 2) decrease the PG to around 1200 Why? 1) there have been a lot of good points made about a degree of parity with the ishtar so I'll leave it at that: Myrm should be able to have 5x Ogres 2) lowering the PG would address the potential for a myrmidon to be a strong ship on its own before adding in the drones, it would have to rely much more on its drones to kill BC+ targets while only fitting a couple nos/neuts OR only small class weaponry in addition to its tank/propulsion mod And what about being in line with other Tier 2 BCs? Fit 250mm railguns on Myrmi and don't come up with such ideas... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.03.30 06:55:00 - [3] Add light combat and light sentry drones with 15m¦ and Mbit/sec and increase all Gallente drone bays by 20 to 25%. That's my take on how to deal with Gallente and drones. Myrmidon could get a even bigger drone bay with 200-225 m¦ to differentiate it more from the Vexor. --------
Zoltar Torzoid Gallente Swag Co.	Posted - 2010.03.30 07:07:00 - [4] Drop a high, give it 4 turret HPs, give it a low, replace the drone bonus with a 5% cap reduction per lvl for armor reps and increase it's base grid to about 1300 give or a take a bit for balance. Increase the Drone bay to 200m3, and increase the bandwidth to 125 Gives it roughly 315-330 DPS with blasters (navy AM) and T2 Ogres. Buffs it's tank, the cap reduction lessens the need for an injector with tackle-gear or a gang mod. - That's less than a vexor with light guns and 2/2/1 drone setup. (roughly 450-480) The gallente have a blaster boat that functions just fine (better than the myr) in the brutix for that purpose. Make the myr a drone boat like it was meant to be. It even says in it's description "while its massive drone space ensures that no enemy is left unscathed." As-is it's a vexor with a bigger tank and medium blasters. Make it a low/medium DPS ship with huge staying-power.
Arturo Vetronas	Posted - 2010.03.30 16:28:00 - [5] Edited by: Arturo Vetronas on 30/03/2010 16:29:26 @ Trimutius III too big to just quote it all but I will reply by saying that simply having 5x ogre does not make it OP, if you try to shoot anything smaller than a BC with ogres you will often be disappointed unless ur target is helpless just a refresher, the myrm was nerfed because it was possible to carry a great tank, AND fit very good dps along with tackle AND combined with the OLD NOS it was way OP in single combat, that has nothing to do with having too many ogres it has to do with being able to fit a great tank and fit good gun dps while being able to have tackle and the OLD NOS. non-eft warriors unite and also explain again that 5x ogres do crap damage against fast moving ships BC-class and smaller (esp with web nerf) and really only do good damage or even get to their targets if they are A) SLOW and helpless or B) BS as to your other point, you and I will never agree since you, for some strange reason, want the Myrm to be some ugly stepchild of a brutix... If you want a gun platform use the brutix, Myrm should be drones all the way supplemented by guns OR guns/neuts I disagree with taking away turret hardpoints, limiting the PG (1100-1200 pg) as i descibed will allow for decent tank + propulsion mod and still have room for a ~4 medium-class high slot mods (blaster, AC, Neut/Nos) or a mix of small/medium mods in all 6 slots, this way a pilot still has the freedom to fly like Trimutius III wants u to and put all the highs to medium T2 guns and then have a seriously gimped tank for a BC... and then i can eat you...
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.30 16:33:00 - [6] as ACs have much lower PG requirements, the reduction of would just lead to people favoring ACs for myrms even more and it wont reduce the DPS that much.
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.30 18:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Arturo Vetronas Edited by: Arturo Vetronas on 30/03/2010 16:29:26 just a refresher, the myrm was nerfed because it was possible to carry a great tank, AND fit very good dps along with tackle AND combined with the OLD NOS it was way OP in single combat, that has nothing to do with having too many ogres it has to do with being able to fit a great tank and fit good gun dps while being able to have tackle and the OLD NOS. non-eft warriors unite and also explain again that 5x ogres do crap damage against fast moving ships BC-class and smaller (esp with web nerf) and really only do good damage or even get to their targets if they are A) SLOW and helpless or B) BS Forget about Ogres. Ability to take 5x Garde, 5x Bouncer, 5x Curator or 5x Warden that what was imbalanced... U underestimate possibilities of sentries. Probably even Ishtar needs nerf rather then myrmi boost... Just compare to Dominix. If u need decent DPS on Domi (comparing to other BS) u'll need to fit guns, Myrmi should be the same but damage should not so big for BC of course. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Zoltar Torzoid Gallente Swag Co.	Posted - 2010.03.30 19:26:00 - [8] actually, if you remove the drone hit point and damage bonus the Myr currently has and give it a viable cap-stable tank with tackle-gear, or gang mods, then you lower it's damage output potential, even with T2 sentries as that's what makes them awesome in an Ishtar. With the highest damage guns and ammo, plus 5 T2 heavy drones and Zero damage bonuses, you are pushing about the same damage as a drake with a hardier tank that can be killed with neuts. Not really that overpowered if ya ask me. Yes, without a damage mod to blasters (which it doesn't have already) more people will turn to using projectiles (which many already do). The Dominix gets the same drone bonus as the Vexor, and the Ishtar. So long as it's got the staying power it's description says it should have, I see no reason a myr should have that same bonus, it would indeed make it overpowered. But it was designed as a dedicated tank/drone boat (read the description) so is should have the power to deploy a full rack of heavies, even sentries. They aren't all that big of a deal if there's no bonus. And without the hit point bonus as well, they are easy enuogh to kill, rendering the damage potential of the Myr useless. I've seen a few other pretty cool ideas for the Myr in the past as well that aren't anything like this. This is just what I picture the boat should be like. -Zoltar
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.03.30 19:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Zoltar Torzoid actually, if you remove the drone hit point and damage bonus the Myr currently has and give it a viable cap-stable tank with tackle-gear, or gang mods, then you lower it's damage output potential, even with T2 sentries as that's what makes them awesome in an Ishtar. With the highest damage guns and ammo, plus 5 T2 heavy drones and Zero damage bonuses, you are pushing about the same damage as a drake with a hardier tank that can be killed with neuts. Not really that overpowered if ya ask me. Yes, without a damage mod to blasters (which it doesn't have already) more people will turn to using projectiles (which many already do). The Dominix gets the same drone bonus as the Vexor, and the Ishtar. So long as it's got the staying power it's description says it should have, I see no reason a myr should have that same bonus, it would indeed make it overpowered. But it was designed as a dedicated tank/drone boat (read the description) so is should have the power to deploy a full rack of heavies, even sentries. They aren't all that big of a deal if there's no bonus. And without the hit point bonus as well, they are easy enuogh to kill, rendering the damage potential of the Myr useless. I've seen a few other pretty cool ideas for the Myr in the past as well that aren't anything like this. This is just what I picture the boat should be like. -Zoltar what are you smoking? it is "cap stable" in pvp as long as you got boosters.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2010.03.30 20:14:00 - [10] Why don't we start with a small step and try to get it up to 100m3 first? Myrm got nerfed cuz it had a 125m3 bandwidth before. Now it's down to the level of a Vexor. Just needs a little boost up to get it between cruiser and battleship. 100m3 would do that. Yeah, I'd like to see 125m3 again too, but honestly it ain't gonna happen. Taxman IX: Risky Venture

Arturo Vetronas	Posted - 2010.03.31 07:57:00 - [11] basically what i'm saying is, give the 125 back for drones, and then trim back the PG such that you cannot have a decent tank/propultion mod fit AND have good damage out of ur high slots on their own, therefore people will primarily have to use the myrmidon like the vexor, ishtar, and dominix, (as it should be) and rely on their drones and only supplement with guns, not rely upon them... i think 1100-1200 pg would probably do that, with decent tank and propulsion mod i'm seeing enough room for about 4 medium modules (150-200 pg each) which could be autocannons or neuts or some combination or w/e, and then the other two slots would have to be small modules to fit... so to get 6x medium AC or blasters in the highs one would have to drop propulsion mod and a plate, or armor rep, etc so u would have freedom of fitting but serious consequence in variation of fits, it won't be good or even decent in all the core areas (tank, guns, drones, ewar, speed)
Nick Bison Gallente Bison Industrial Inc	Posted - 2010.04.01 16:41:00 - [12] Since the drone nerf - the Myrmidon is not on par with other BC by any stretch of the imagination. That's why everyone flies Drakes and the Myrms have turned into "hanger queens" except for some PvE. [wishful thinking here] I would like to see the drone bandwidth adjusted back up but we all know it's just not in the cards right now.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.04.01 17:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Nick Bison Since the drone nerf - the Myrmidon is not on par with other BC by any stretch of the imagination. That's why everyone flies Drakes and the Myrms have turned into "hanger queens" except for some PvE. [wishful thinking here] I would like to see the drone bandwidth adjusted back up but we all know it's just not in the cards right now. that must be the reason why triple rep myrms are kinda FOTM in small gang/solo pvp. or the dual rep myrm with neut. but yes nobody flies myrms anymore.</sarcasm>
Soon Shin	Posted - 2010.04.11 04:00:00 - [14] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Nick Bison Since the drone nerf - the Myrmidon is not on par with other BC by any stretch of the imagination. That's why everyone flies Drakes and the Myrms have turned into "hanger queens" except for some PvE. [wishful thinking here] I would like to see the drone bandwidth adjusted back up but we all know it's just not in the cards right now. that must be the reason why triple rep myrms are kinda FOTM in small gang/solo pvp. or the dual rep myrm with neut. but yes nobody flies myrms anymore.</sarcasm> My Boy you should have seen the days before the myrm was nerfed to hell. The triple Rep Myrm and Dual Rep Neut Were Powerful. what you speak of now is a joke that a Dominix can do a much better job at for not much more higher costs.
Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.04.11 04:16:00 - [15] I want my 1100dps neutron shield myrmi plz. No, it won't be overpowered at all. Honest.
WAAAAAAGH	Posted - 2010.04.11 10:57:00 - [16] Edited by: WAAAAAAGH on 11/04/2010 11:02:46 Originally by: Harotak I want my 1100dps neutron shield myrmi plz. No, it won't be overpowered at all. Honest. On the other hand, no pilots in their right minds lets a Gallente ship up close and personal! Edit: Just thought about my pre-edit post. With the nano-nerf. There's is almost no way for a Gallente ship to get up close 'n personal. So Neutron-shield-lol-DPS-myrdmidon will not work the good 'ol way anymore. Alot of the pre nos-drone-nano-nerf age. Alot of the solo myrmidon was all about go hugging a turretship (Abaddon) to use the 0m bug. NOS the to hell and back while tanking drones and eating away on the hull. - That was the OP myrm we all remember. The Nos nerf made this harder (more need for cap boosters). With the drone nerf, this became stupidly hard to acomplish (and Gallente lost that sweetspot l3 mission runner). With the nano-nerf. All above was virtually made impossible. Since no pilot in their right mind lets a myrm come close. With the nerfs, myrm (it's bulkier than you like to think) just don't come close anymore!
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.04.11 11:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Soon Shin My Boy you should have seen the days before the myrm was nerfed to hell. The triple Rep Myrm and Dual Rep Neut Were Powerful. what you speak of now is a joke that a Dominix can do a much better job at for not much more higher costs. so you dont fly any ships unless they are overpowered? toughluck to be you.
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.04.11 13:13:00 - [18] Originally by: WAAAAAAGH Edited by: WAAAAAAGH on 11/04/2010 11:02:46 Originally by: Harotak I want my 1100dps neutron shield myrmi plz. No, it won't be overpowered at all. Honest. On the other hand, no pilots in their right minds lets a Gallente ship up close and personal! You hardly have a choice when we discuss the shield Myrmidon, it's not a armor rigged slow monstrosity. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jabru	Posted - 2010.04.11 13:25:00 - [19] why not give it 100mb band with? more band with than the vexor but not as much as the domi?
Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.04.11 14:03:00 - [20] The myrmidon already outclasses the brutix in every way. If any BCs need to be improved its the Tier-1s.



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