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masternerdguy
Gallente
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.02 19:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: masternerdguy on 02/04/2010 19:24:49
Seriously, I see cynabals, worms, succubi, machariels, vigilants, and all those awesome and epic faction frigs in missions but they are pathetic compared to the real thing.
case: Dramiel
It only webs and deals total crap damage....what! It's also fairly slow.
case: Machariel
This should be doing about 3x the damage it does now.
case: Vigilant
Why don't they web? They have a massive web bonus! I only see em TD.
Fix it. I'd rather see fewer higher challenge high bounty NPCs than swarms of failfit.
For example:
A serpentis mission can have 2 vigilants, a vindicator, and 4 support frigs. All of them do 70% the DPS of the real maxed out all level 5s currently accepted fit. The BS can have bounty of 20m, the vigilant can have 10m bounties and the frigs get 1m bounties. about 45m in bounties in total, but its harder to do because you have to be smart with transversal and crap.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.02 19:43:00 -
[2]
In the event you hadn't noticed, NPC ships have nothing in common with player ships. If they were even remotely comparable, you'd get owned the first time you tried to take on two NPC BS's in your t1 fitted BS you got at the ripe old age of 2 months play time. In fact, you should have been ****d by just one. I've long wished they would make pve more like pvp but those calls have been ignored. The only npc's that even come close to player ships are sleepers and even they are rather weak as sleeper BS's don't scramble, player ones typically do.
In short, NPC ships are not anything like the player ships that look exactly the same. They have nothing in common but the ship models.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
masternerdguy
Gallente
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.02 19:50:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: King Rothgar
In the event you hadn't noticed, NPC ships have nothing in common with player ships. If they were even remotely comparable, you'd get owned the first time you tried to take on two NPC BS's in your t1 fitted BS you got at the ripe old age of 2 months play time. In fact, you should have been ****d by just one. I've long wished they would make pve more like pvp but those calls have been ignored. The only npc's that even come close to player ships are sleepers and even they are rather weak as sleeper BS's don't scramble, player ones typically do.
In short, NPC ships are not anything like the player ships that look exactly the same. They have nothing in common but the ship models.
good that makes eve harder.
Maybe it should be something like this:
Level 1s...
2-3 frigs (runnable in a destroyer)
Level 2s...
1 cruiser and 2 frigs (runnable in destroyer/cruiser)
Level 3s...
3 cruisers (runnable in a well tanked BC)
Level 4s...
1BC 3 frigs (runnable in a well tanked BC/BS)
Level 5s...
2BS 1BC 1Cruiser 2Frigs (you need something awesome)
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.04.02 19:54:00 -
[4]
There's also the fluff/rpg reason that non-pod ships are much less efficient than pod-piloted ships.
Now if only there was a fluff/rpg way to account for how NPCs replenish their numbers despite being farmed almost constantly by pod pilots.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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masternerdguy
Gallente
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.02 20:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: stoicfaux
There's also the fluff/rpg reason that non-pod ships are much less efficient than pod-piloted ships.
Now if only there was a fluff/rpg way to account for how NPCs replenish their numbers despite being farmed almost constantly by pod pilots.
the replenishing thing makes sense, they farm from thousands of planets with maybe billions living on each. But the bigger issue is the pod thing. Why wouldn't they use pod pilots? They are immortal and they are much better, and all the major pirate factions have cloning facilities in their 0.0 space.
Obviously building thousands upon thousands of ships and loading em up with yuppies from planets who want adventure and riches and letting them all get gunned down by one dude's drake isn't working, so it would be logical for them to invest in some more durable people and pilots.
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masternerdguy
Gallente
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.02 20:32:00 -
[6]
yes
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.04.02 20:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: masternerdguy
the replenishing thing makes sense, they farm from thousands of planets with maybe billions living on each. But the bigger issue is the pod thing. Why wouldn't they use pod pilots? They are immortal and they are much better, and all the major pirate factions have cloning facilities in their 0.0 space.
The four empires have the same problem too. Which means there's some kind of limit on pod-pilots.
The pirate factions do use pod-pilots, but that tends to be more about PvP than PvE.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2010.04.02 21:43:00 -
[8]
Actually, it's quite simple. The cost of fielding a pod pilot is exorbitantly high. The DED gives the material, but they're expecting some cash in return. Something about having to pay for leaky ectoplasm.
The only way to finance it is to have some dude from 2010 put in $15 per month and let it grow on interest. CCP is just doing us the kindness of holding it in escrow. By the time the EVE gate collapses, compounding interest gives us enough cash to pay the greedy folks at the DED office.
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masternerdguy
Gallente
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.02 21:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aamrr
Actually, it's quite simple. The cost of fielding a pod pilot is exorbitantly high. The DED gives the material, but they're expecting some cash in return. Something about having to pay for leaky ectoplasm.
The only way to finance it is to have some dude from 2010 put in $15 per month and let it grow on interest. CCP is just doing us the kindness of holding it in escrow. By the time the EVE gate collapses, compounding interest gives us enough cash to pay the greedy folks at the DED office.
ok, ectoplasm is made out of cell membranes....wow so much amazingly complex crap here I mean taking an animal stripping its skin off and putting the skin in a blender omg wow!
On another note pirates could develop a variety of alternatives to standard capsules, a matrix-style chair comes to mind, which do not require the pilot to be immersed in goo. Would you want to be totally immersed in goo anyway?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.02 22:02:00 -
[10]
Pirate ships suffer from something known as the Law of Inverse Ninjitsu (a term Pirates bristle at, but it still applies to them), which states that the more ninjas/pirates there are in a given scenario, the more pathetic they must be as ninjitsu must be conserved.
Conversely, coming across a single ninja or pirate means certain death.
This is why a single player can fly a Machariel into a mission, against dozens of other Machariels, and still come out on top. It's also how Kessah manages to kill anyone in PVP.
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Aqriue
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Posted - 2010.04.02 22:12:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Does the OP have to be THAT pathetic?
FIXT!!! Do you really need attention that badly and feel you must troll the forums every day to start a dozen pointless topics?
Ah hell, I hell for it.  Have a cyanide laced cookie.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2010.04.03 05:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: King Rothgar
In the event you hadn't noticed, NPC ships have nothing in common with player ships. If they were even remotely comparable, you'd get owned the first time you tried to take on two NPC BS's in your t1 fitted BS you got at the ripe old age of 2 months play time. In fact, you should have been ****d by just one. I've long wished they would make pve more like pvp but those calls have been ignored. The only npc's that even come close to player ships are sleepers and even they are rather weak as sleeper BS's don't scramble, player ones typically do.
In short, NPC ships are not anything like the player ships that look exactly the same. They have nothing in common but the ship models.
in theory they are manned by mere mortals rather than pod pilots. their poor performance relative to pod pilots would be due to having to pass orders around and human reflex times etc.
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KaiserSoze434
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Posted - 2010.04.03 07:15:00 -
[13]
The answer is the non-pod pilot difference. As to why they don't use pod pilots themselves how would they possibly control them? What leverage would you have against an immortal that can jump his consciousness all over the known galaxy. Pretty much you could offer them money to do what you want and hope they do it. If they fail you'd just make a note in your ledger not to use them again. Thats exactly what the mission system is.
Even if the various factions did have access to lots of pod pilots why the hell would they send them into lame highsec suicide missions?
"Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.04.03 10:35:00 -
[14]
the reason is: it's tradition. since games were made, NPCs were always many and weak and player was alone but strong. it's cliche. one pilot, alone, in a small, but strong ship, against multitude of evil enemy, bravely defending his turf for eternal gratitude of galaxy, yadda yadda
has nothing to do with who is piloting ships. there are NPC pod pilots, and if player pod pilots can expect to survive, so can NPC. CCP is just lazy and generally unimaginative when it comes to missions.
________________________________
: Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Ernesto DaSilva
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Posted - 2010.04.03 10:39:00 -
[15]
don't feed the trolls
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.04.03 11:52:00 -
[16]
Did anyone notice that the OP would like newbies without access to a destroyer not to do any missions?
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The 3of5
Heaven's Avatars
Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.04.03 12:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: The 3of5 on 03/04/2010 12:28:47
Pirate ships suck!
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Deus Ex'Machina
The-Machine
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Posted - 2010.04.04 00:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: masternerdguy
In short, NPC ships are not anything like the player ships that look exactly the same. They have nothing in common but the ship models.
good that makes eve harder.
Maybe it should be something like this:
Level 1s...
2-3 frigs (runnable in a destroyer)
Level 2s...
1 cruiser and 2 frigs (runnable in destroyer/cruiser)
Level 3s...
3 cruisers (runnable in a well tanked BC)
Level 4s...
1BC 3 frigs (runnable in a well tanked BC/BS)
Level 5s...
2BS 1BC 1Cruiser 2Frigs (you need something awesome)
I've read stuff like this in the suggestions forums for years.
Of course the basic idea is great, of course it should be tweaked ( i.e. manageable rats for the target missioner) , of course they should use various modules or ... resemble what other players would bring in PVP ... run out of cap ... run out of charges ... or even to start overheating their lazors.
However, *** devs go to the suggestion forum once in a blue moon, and then only to troll.
And like many simpletons above, there's hardly any real desire in the player base to change missions into something more entertaining ... and less wall~paint~drying~boredom~grind~fest that they are now.
For starters, *** devs could pull some numbers out of EVE, like ... how much your average missioner makes per hour(over a month) per mission level per ship net worth and start to balance new missions with far far less ships around those numbers ... in effect only changing the entertainment value, hopefully for the better.
They could then add pictures depicting relevant information about the mission deadspace and NPC's, even movies (think character selection types) or Aura voice-overs, and useful information about what modules to defend against ... or what modules to consider bringing. I've seen in another MMO a section in a skills description that had user comments which one could rank up or down, top 3 being always visible.
Blegh! I'd like to see an overhaul of the interface above all this though, it feels and behaves too 1990.
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Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER!
Sharkbait: Dude. |
Jypsie
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Posted - 2010.04.04 21:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Did anyone notice that the OP would like newbies without access to a destroyer not to do any missions?
Welcome to Eve, capsulleer. I am Aura, your automated guide to the world of New Eden. I am going to help you through our new pilots program, recently changed to give challenges appropriate to what you can really expect in the world of Eve. You have been issued an Ibis frigate equipped with a Civilian Railgun and Civilian Mining Laser. Approaching you at just over 4 km/s will see a red cross indicating a hostile pirate dual prop, rigged, faction/officer fit Dramiel that has just scrammed and blown up your Ibis.
Quickly select the square icon in the overview on the right side of the screen representing a space station and select "Dock" in the upper right hand corner to warp your escape pod to the station and you will be issue...I'm sorry, nevermind, the pirate has just podded you.
Now that you have respawned in the station, you have been issued another Ibis frigate at no charge. Please try to be more careful with this one. I do not recommend leaving the station, as the pirate is now camping outside. He will remain there shouting random racial epithets about you and assumptions about your mother's promiscuity for the next one to two hours or until you log, which ever comes first.
I'll check back with you in an hour if you are still logged on to continue your introduction. Welcome to Eve Online.
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Deus Ex'Machina
The-Machine
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Posted - 2010.04.05 01:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jypsie
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Did anyone notice that the OP would like newbies without access to a destroyer not to do any missions?
Approaching you at just over 4 km/s will see a red cross indicating a hostile pirate dual prop, rigged, faction/officer fit Dramiel that has just scrammed and blown up your Ibis.
What you are describing is what one would expect in a lvl 4 mission with frigate limitations on the acceleration gate.
Back under your bridge! Back I say!
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Arkanon: EXPLAIN YOURSELF, EVILDOER!
Sharkbait: Dude. |
Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.04.05 14:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jypsie
He will remain there shouting random racial epithets about you and assumptions about your mother's promiscuity for the next one to two hours or until you log, which ever comes first.
Addendum: If this were to happen in Jita, he'd be spamming a Contract advertising a dual prop, rigged, faction/officer fit Dramiel that is in fact an Ibis.
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Zoe Midoru
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jypsie
Welcome to Eve, capsulleer. I am Aura, your automated guide to the world of New Eden. I am going to help you through our new pilots program, recently changed to give challenges appropriate to what you can really expect in the world of Eve. You have been issued an Ibis frigate equipped with a Civilian Railgun and Civilian Mining Laser. Approaching you at just over 4 km/s will see a red cross indicating a hostile pirate dual prop, rigged, faction/officer fit Dramiel that has just scrammed and blown up your Ibis.
This thread has been won and should be locked.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.05 15:15:00 -
[23]
Actually 4km/s is a little weak for a dramiel, should be doing atleast 6km/s.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Khin'charin
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.05 16:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jypsie
Welcome to Eve, capsulleer. I am Aura, your automated guide to the world of New Eden. I am going to help you through our new pilots program, recently changed to give challenges appropriate to what you can really expect in the world of Eve. You have been issued an Ibis frigate equipped with a Civilian Railgun and Civilian Mining Laser. Approaching you at just over 4 km/s will see a red cross indicating a hostile pirate dual prop, rigged, faction/officer fit Dramiel that has just scrammed and blown up your Ibis.
Quickly select the square icon in the overview on the right side of the screen representing a space station and select "Dock" in the upper right hand corner to warp your escape pod to the station and you will be issue...I'm sorry, nevermind, the pirate has just podded you.
Now that you have respawned in the station, you have been issued another Ibis frigate at no charge. Please try to be more careful with this one. I do not recommend leaving the station, as the pirate is now camping outside. He will remain there shouting random racial epithets about you and assumptions about your mother's promiscuity for the next one to two hours or until you log, which ever comes first.
I'll check back with you in an hour if you are still logged on to continue your introduction. Welcome to Eve Online.
/Thread
_________________________________
More blood for the blood god.
Eternal darkness to the infidels. |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.05 18:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: King Rothgar
In short, NPC ships are not anything like the player ships that look exactly the same. They have nothing in common but the ship models.
Facing NPC Caracals with lasers always makes me chuckle.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.06 01:35:00 -
[26]
I've faced human caracals with lasers, it made me chuckle too.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2010.04.06 03:14:00 -
[27]
posting in a troll thread
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Bruno Bourque
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Elsa Nietzsche
posting in a troll thread
Its not a Troll, he really is this thick...
As for the question around WHY the pirates dont have pods, read the back story... it will explain a lot. Mainly the fact that not everyone is capable of being a pod pilot. You for one MNG, should not have passed the tests.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: King Rothgar
The only npc's that even come close to player ships are sleepers and even they are rather weak as sleeper BS's don't scramble, player ones typically do.
Yea they do, and web, from 30-40km no less. They're called Sleepless Guardians, and off the top of my head do about 600dps, orbit at 35-36km going 174m/s, with both point and web. They also have twice the tank of any other sleeper bs.
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L'Petit Object
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:05:00 -
[30]
Oh my god, !!!another!!! Missions suck thread.
OH MY GOD, another bunch of trolls who don't want anything to change.
Big suprise.
Missions in Eve are the worst pve experience of all the pve I have ever played in 99% of all games I have played. It is almost as bad as Nexus: The Jupiter Incident. But that game was actually hard (for me)
My best
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