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hired goon
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Posted - 2010.04.03 12:12:00 -
[1]
Eve as it stands looks great. But it doesn't look as good as it could, and we know this because of the screenshots and trailers that come from CCP. As for screenshots, we already know that CCP has an in-house tool that increases Eve's resolution by about 10x then takes a screen, which can be scaled down to look perfectly anti-aliased, where as we don't even have the option of anti-aliasing. As far as I understand this was a limitation with directX 9 (one we saw in other games too, such as oblivion) though we are now in dx11 generation. This secret CCP 'client' can also increase the resolution of texture/normal/specular/shadow maps (or maybe just display them uncompressed) for the end result of an almost perfect looking screenshot.
Trailers are different, because the effects we've seen on recent videos are added by video-editing software, rather than in a secret client.
I am going to make the argument that we should be given more detail in Eve, for a number of reasons;
- Eve is not a very demanding game, even though it looks spectacular. It might induce slow-down for people who run on 6 monitors, or who like to run 14 accounts at once, but for normal people there is a LOT of computer power left untapped that we should have at least the option of using in the game we love, especially if it 'already exists' in a secret CCP client.
- Many (though not all) eve players have now upgraded to a machine that has incredible processing power. According to the very interesting and useful Steam hardware survey, almost 80% of gamers have a dx10.1 capable gpu and just over 80% have more than 1 CPU core. This could almost be argued to be 'wasted' on todays eve, which as previously mentioned is not very demanding at all, to the extent that people using Nvidia cards two generations old (8800 GTS, 7900 GT etc) can still run multiple clients at once! combine this with the newly released dx11 cards and we see a pretty extreme picture forming. (Just to note I think this is an amazing achievement for a game that looks as beautiful as Eve currently does!)
- Screenshots and trailers are what brings people to the game. Once they are playing there is a chance they'll be disappointed they have been 'misled'. Add to this the fact that at one point a source of great pride with Eve was the fact all screenshots and trailers were unedited and representative of the gameplay. (as mentioned in almost every early trailer - though not the later ones which have effects such as depth-of-field and motion blur edited in)
I understand that the graphics of Eve are getting better all the time, but I believe that these are all small improvements, and there are a number of large problem areas that should be solved if Eve is to remain a visually cutting edge game in the face of newer offerings. I also believe the advancement of technology is outpacing the advancement in Eve graphics.
If however adding some of these new dx11 effects, such as depth of field, anti aliasing and motion blur would require a similar re-writing of the entire graphics engine (as was a requirement to update from dx7 to dx9) then I apologize and would like to say I do not expect CCP to undertake such a laborious task so soon!
With all this being said however, we should never lose sight of the fact that Eve is the only game and certainly the only MMOG that has gifted its players with such continuous updates. Eve as it stands now looks stunning; I absolutely love the new star fields, and new textures that were (and still are) sneakily put in. I am just excited that Eve could look even stunninger. -omg-
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2010.04.03 12:41:00 -
[2]
image
this is what i would love to see in game some day. Ship explosions that last for several seconds (with breaking ship hulls, ships breaking into several parts, fire coming out of the hull) and projectile explosions that loot just awesome instead of like a game from 2003 (which eve actually is ).
Give Eve just ONE such addon that works on all of these effects and i promise an increasement of players by at least 50% in the next half year (hope not too many wow-lers ;).
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Cute Joe
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Posted - 2010.04.03 13:12:00 -
[3]
will never happen
have a nice day
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2010.04.03 13:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cute Joe will never happen
have a nice day
I will quote you in 10 years
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.04.03 14:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: hired goon According to the very interesting and useful Steam hardware survey, almost 80% of gamers have a dx10.1 capable gpu
but not a dx10.1 capable operating system. People with both are more like 56% of that group (which may or may not accurately represent Eve players.)
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Gecko O'Bac
Achmed-Terrorist IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.04.03 14:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 03/04/2010 14:43:09 Not that I object to better graphics but really... Most of the time when you're in space you can't even see a ship if it isn't capital sized... If you stay close enough to look at a ship then you're not looking at everything else that's going around you. Even navigating can be a pin unless you're in a completely empty spot of space.
EDIT: also the poster above is right, more than a half of the general player base is still with Win Xp (like me). So even if the system is dx10.1 or even 11 capable, the OS isn't.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.04.03 14:41:00 -
[7]
MY EVE looks as good as the screenshots.. but then again I spend all my disposable income on computer hardware.
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KA StarLifter
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Posted - 2010.04.03 18:32:00 -
[8]
Edited by: KA StarLifter on 03/04/2010 18:32:46 I don't get my kicks from the graphics of Eve. In fact, I'd suggest that most of those who do get their kicks from the graphics, or from the graphics the OP is hoping for, are short-term players anyway (like for a year or two).
I've been playing and successfully PvP'ing since 2004 (not with this character) and I haven't heard Eve gun/laser/missile sounds, except sporadically when the game crashes and my settings are all new, for years now. Likewise, all my graphics are turned all the way down, and remain that way, because I'm just really not focusing on what anything around me looks like when I'm in a 1 vs. 1 or fleet battle - I just don't have to time to be looking around.
When I'm not PvP'ing I'm hunting - other players - and I have no need for graphics then, either.
If you actually get into the game and make it, you won't have time for close-up shots of your fleet flying by a planet either.
CCP recognizes this and has guided the graphics appropriately for the majority of EVE players IMHO.
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Arimus Darkhart
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.04.03 19:39:00 -
[9]
99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out. the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.
If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...
-- Users are like a virus - each causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally dies. |
Blnukem 192
Amarr Amarr War Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.03 20:15:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Blnukem 192 on 03/04/2010 20:23:11
Originally by: KA StarLifter Edited by: KA StarLifter on 03/04/2010 18:32:46 I don't get my kicks from the graphics of Eve. In fact, I'd suggest that most of those who do get their kicks from the graphics, or from the graphics the OP is hoping for, are short-term players anyway (like for a year or two).
I've been playing and successfully PvP'ing since 2004 (not with this character) and I haven't heard Eve gun/laser/missile sounds, except sporadically when the game crashes and my settings are all new, for years now. Likewise, all my graphics are turned all the way down, and remain that way, because I'm just really not focusing on what anything around me looks like when I'm in a 1 vs. 1 or fleet battle - I just don't have to time to be looking around.
When I'm not PvP'ing I'm hunting - other players - and I have no need for graphics then, either.
If you actually get into the game and make it, you won't have time for close-up shots of your fleet flying by a planet either.
CCP recognizes this and has guided the graphics appropriately for the majority of EVE players IMHO.
You must really love hitting the F1 to F8 keys on Microsoft Excell then... Unlike most if you freaks, I have my graphics and sound *gasp* on full, even anti-aliasing. And I play ZOOMED IN 95% of the time.
The truth of the matter is, if you like to hit F1 to F8 and watch health bars for ships go down and stare at a blank screen full of windows, then you have a severe case of insanity. EVE needs visuals, it's just not fun otherwise.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.04.03 20:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arimus Darkhart 99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out. the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.
If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...
Talk like this is simply short-sighted.
I chose to play Eve BECAUSE the graphics seemed much more advanced than other MMO's. I've never played WOW, but I've seen it being played and it looks like something out of the year 2000.
I don't play eve for the fast-paced spreadsheets, I play eve because it's the closest thing I can get to a persistent sci-fi simulator. Adding some fast-paced cinema effects WILL add tons to the game. Making it look like that Battlestar Galactica screen would be SO COOL. Ships with hulls that break up, explosions and more 'splosions, with missiles flying all around with smoke trails, etc.
Let's move Eve from the nerds category into the realm of actual awesome, like when you saw Star Wars for the first time, and the effect of speed when Luke flew down the trench just blew you away.
If you remember, Star Wars was never "exactly" like real life. In reality, ships wouldn't explode in space, and they wouldn't need to look cool or aerodynamic.
For all you spreadsheet nerds who play with 15 accounts at a time, Eve can stay the same for you, with settings that allow you to check or un-check certain effects.
Don't have DX 10.1 OS? No worries, simply making Eve run faster and smoother taking advantage of DX 10.1 doesn't need to eliminate DX9 compatibility. It just won't run as well as it would if you upgraded your OS.
My point is what the OP point is - they could enable certain things in the client to allow us with SLI and DX10.1 and above to actually view EVE the way it should be - as a persistent cinimatic sci-fi experience.
Theoretically they could make a flash-based browser version of the game, allowing all of you spreadsheet people to play without any graphics at all, or a much more simplified version.
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kano donn
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Posted - 2010.04.03 20:32:00 -
[12]
Having just recently upgraded my system from lowest eve settings to highest, I concur with the OP.
EVE is a beautiful game when it comes to gameplay just like has been mentioned here, but the buildings that hold beautiful artworks are a work of art in them selfs.
If it is possible, why not do it?
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Dr Karsun
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.03 21:24:00 -
[13]
I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.
It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.
For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.
And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.04.03 21:48:00 -
[14]
To be honest, the only feature I'd really like would be in-game support for AA, even if it came at the cost of disabling HDR for some people. Both are possible, ergo the user should be given the choice. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2010.04.03 21:50:00 -
[15]
Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 03/04/2010 21:50:23
Originally by: Dr Karsun I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.
It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.
For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.
And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.
You do understand that games can run in different versions of DirectX, right? It's possible to optimize a game for DX10.1 or 11 or whatever, but still let people run it in 9. People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...
Let the people who have better hardware use it; there's no reason to limit them because your rig happens to suck.
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Sista Jaxx
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.04.03 22:13:00 -
[16]
I was going to say, "You mean, will EVE ever look as good as it's current trailers?"But I see what you're saying and you have some good points.
Could improve : yes (but doesn't need huge improvements imo).
Will it improve : who know's.
Perhaps with (*cough) Incarna, some graphical improvements will be at hand.
/Runs off to bake homemade Clif Bars.
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Shinji Seto
Minmatar Xolti Research
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Posted - 2010.04.04 01:48:00 -
[17]
I don't know what I'm doing different than every one else, but I've ran Eve for four year with 8x AA on a 7950gt and Win XP pro. "Outlaw" This was the name given to those who roam the universe with only his freedom as his guide. |
Xovak
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.04 02:33:00 -
[18]
The thing is, EVE is not very graphics intensive when you're doing things that don't require a ****load of memory to do, such as huge fleet battles. Most people don't have more than 6 gigs of RAM in their computer, and if you were to have huge, bloom-laden explosions and motion blurred interceptors in a massive war between two corporations it would not go down well. I understand that people could easily turn down the graphics settings if they were in such a situation, but you shouldn't have to have them turned all the way up while mining because you want the game to look pretty.
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Dramund
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Posted - 2010.04.04 02:34:00 -
[19]
Are you talking about HDR+AA? Because Anti-Aliasing works fine without HDR. You can't toggle it in-game but that seems to be more a rule than the exception nowadays. I seem to be using nVidia profiles for every PC game I have anyway. Either they are missing an FSAA option or an Anisotropic filtering option.
That said, I don't know anything about how it works, but Eve Online seems way past due to work out AA+HDR.
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Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.04.04 04:06:00 -
[20]
It's almost as if a dichotomy has been created. We all know that Eve has superb in game graphics but at the same time turn them all off for performance.
One thing that CCP could do though is make the New Player Experience a better graphical experience.
Rather than rely on the new player to hunt through forum posts, raise tickets, lose interest, quit. Why don't they just at least slap on AA like everyone else?
Yes, you can hunt the settings down, yes it's easy to do. But really, why should it not be built in like other games? The new player has got a lot more on their plate than those other games offer them and the last thing they want to see when starting Eve - a fantastically awesome graphic experience - is jaggies.
Eve is used to be sold on in game graphics. This should be dealt with. Eve Instant Messenger - A Call to Arms My Blog |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.04 06:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dr Karsun I operate on a windows XP home,32 bit, I have 3gb of ram, a 512 card (hd 4850), a screen of 1280x1024 LG, a 250gb drive... And a ****ty processor of 1.8 ghz dual core.
It's all fine when one can upgrade his computer, but apart from the card I bought quite recently (when it wa new), I don't have money to buy my computer components too often. If EVE started using a dx11 I'd guess many people would be screwed since their cards and other hardware would not work with it.
For now a lot of visual effects need fixing. I can run 2 clients on max detail, but a lot of animations will break at some point - like the armor repair animation will stop cycling and will start just flashing green lines once in a while, or the tractor beam... Etc,etc,etc. Fix the current effects - then make them better.
And please also remember that new hardware is expensive. Don't upgrade everything before it's not optimised.
BF:BC2 has DX9, DX10 and DX11 modes, just because you cant use DX11 isnt a reason why they shouldnt implement it...
That said i dont believe DX9 is the problem.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.04.04 07:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Arimus Darkhart 99.99% of the time my client is fully zoomed out. the other 0.01% is when I fly a new ship for the first time or following a model change to see what the ship looks like then once that's done back to fully zoomed out.
If you want fancy graphics which are more bling than practical Eve probably isn't the game for you...
This pretty much. Thankfully Eve is all about the gameplay, games who's selling point is the graphics tend to be crap.
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Hentes Zsemle
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Posted - 2010.04.04 08:33:00 -
[23]
I agree that if you play this game efficiently, the graphics quality we have now is more than sufficient. However, having a high graph quality client (higher than this one), and a low graph quality client(lower than this one), would be a great thing, just like in the "old days". Too bad ccp removed this option a while ago couse of pure laziness. This topic should be in features and ideas section btw...
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Craivr
Caldari Serenity's Rangers
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Posted - 2010.04.04 08:39:00 -
[24]
Just to say, if you use the DX11 API for a game, it is extremely easy to make it backwards compatible all the way back to DirectX 9. Every DX11 game I know offers fallback modes, retaining most of the visual quality. However, 'converting to DX11@ is still a major job for any game developer, if not as big as it could be. ------------------------------------------- I try. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2010.04.04 08:47:00 -
[25]
eve has graphics?
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.04.04 08:49:00 -
[26]
It is possible to include Anti Aliasing to EVE, but it is a bit fiddly:
Here is some information: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1140083/page/1 http://forum.nhancer.com/showthread.php?t=332
Here is a handy tool for NVidia cards: http://www.nhancer.com/
Basically, it is possible - it is easiest to disable HDR (HDR in space... what exactly is the point of it?) to get it working, but it is possible with extreme fiddling to get AA+HDR working.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Aera Aiana
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Posted - 2010.04.04 09:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...
It's not only hardware. I'm on win7 right now, but I plan to go back to XP in the next couple of months (or probably more like the next time win7's crapsplorer can't delete a directory because one of its files is "opened" by said piece of garbage). No DX10 on XP though :-(
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.04 11:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Furb Killer BF:BC2 has DX9, DX10 and DX11 modes, just because you cant use DX11 isnt a reason why they shouldnt implement it...
That said i dont believe DX9 is the problem.
True enough. The reason they won't do it is because they abhor multiple rendering paths, in particular the overhead and duplication of effort it creates in designing and delivering new content.
(cf. classic client and medium quality) ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Punic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.04.04 16:30:00 -
[29]
I don't understand some of you. Sure, eye candy can be nice (as a little bonus on the side in an otherwise interesting game with good game play), but how can you find the eye candy itself to be the "fun" in a game and play a game specifically for the visuals? It seems rather mindless.
It's people like you that keep really good games (or good movies for that matter, with good stories instead of just some "cool" special effects) from being made. ----- 'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Admrl Cain
Caldari Unbound Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.04.04 18:37:00 -
[30]
My eve looks as good if not better than the screenshots. Don't see the problem tbph. ----------------------------------------
Admiral Cain. Yep, that's right.. mmhmmm |
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egot istical
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Posted - 2010.04.04 19:32:00 -
[31]
I remember asking something along these lines back when eve switched up to minimum requirement of shadermodel 3 & the single client. i remember getting alot of hatemail from laptop owners, was not pretty :( but i do agree, compared to modern games & current average hardware specs, eve could at least use some dx10 & prettying up, doubt ccp would want to switch back to the two client system tho. alot of the recent spec & marketing changes for eve since it's recent hardcopy sales have been to make the product more available & appealing to a wider audience, hence broad computer compatibility & 12+ game rating. it's abit ghay, but in the end, they a business. it's alittle irritating, but at least if the game is popular & ccp are making profits, it means they can continue supporting eve online & improving the game, albiet slowly.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.04 19:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: egot istical I remember asking something along these lines back when eve switched up to minimum requirement of shadermodel 3 & the single client.
It's SM2, actually, so we already have that problem. Going for DX10 serves no purpose since it's already obsolete. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Birdman Ravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.04 23:12:00 -
[33]
Eve is also available for Mac, and CCP still takes measures to see the Linux community happily running Eve through whatever means they see fit. Consideration has to be given to compatibility. All the eye candy our cards can offer us won't amount to anything to the player who finds the client doesn't work anymore.
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TigerXtrm
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Posted - 2010.04.04 23:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: hired goon [list=1]Eve is not a very demanding game, even though it looks spectacular. It might induce slow-down for people who run on 6 monitors, or who like to run 14 accounts at once, but for normal people there is a LOT of computer power left untapped that we should have at least the option of using in the game we love, especially if it 'already exists' in a secret CCP client.
I don't know what scares me more. The fact that this guy is such an epic moronic nerd or the fact that you morons are actually saluting, supporting and admiring him. I mean... do you really want to be like this pathetic excuse for a human being?
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Entre Envy
Gallente squaa
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Posted - 2010.04.05 01:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: TigerXtrm
Originally by: hired goon [list=1]Eve is not a very demanding game, even though it looks spectacular. It might induce slow-down for people who run on 6 monitors, or who like to run 14 accounts at once, but for normal people there is a LOT of computer power left untapped that we should have at least the option of using in the game we love, especially if it 'already exists' in a secret CCP client.
I don't know what scares me more. The fact that this guy is such an epic moronic nerd or the fact that you morons are actually saluting, supporting and admiring him. I mean... do you really want to be like this pathetic excuse for a human being?
Because the thing you spend your free time doing is 100% better than the thing he does during his free time.
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TigerXtrm
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Posted - 2010.04.05 01:17:00 -
[36]
This has little to do with being arrogant and more with my gradual loss of faith in my own species.
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Amanda Eidolo
Core Industrialist Resurrected G String University
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Posted - 2010.04.05 05:42:00 -
[37]
Congratulations to all the ******s who can't figure out how to force AA in EVE.
Hint: It involves using both your brain and your driver control panel.
/wrist if you still can't work it out (Cont'd) |
Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.04.05 06:14:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Epicbeardman on 05/04/2010 06:15:35 I couldn't disagree more.
The quality of games has decreased in direct proportion to the increase in processing power. Compare the System Shocks to Bioshock, Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age, GTA:VC to IV, the first two Fallouts to Fallout 3, Deus Ex, MOH:AA, C&C, PoP:Sands of Time and Unreal Tournament to their respective sequels, Diablo to it's endless list of next generation clones and I could go on for a good few minutes.
Point is, the latter in the above massive breakage of Rule 17 are always, ALWAYS the lesser.
Make the game better, not prettier.
Edit: I missed Dwarf Fortress. If that's not proof, I don't know what is.
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MalVortex
Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.05 10:26:00 -
[39]
EVE, sort of by definition, can look as good as screenshots or videos taken from within the game engine. What you must remember, though, is that CCP is very careful about scene selection and star/background color to truly make ships pop and come to life. They also run the game on a modified client at very high resolutions for the recording, and then scale down the resolution for distribution to really make it look good.
Disingenuous? Perhaps - but the game can look close to whats advertised if you run the highest end equipment. A better question would be whether the game can look that good while actually in a fleet fight - shiny graphics are nice, but its the overview you care about. If rendering 500 drone models with realtime shadowing and HDR causes a framerate drop, it will be axed. If 7,000 turret batteries cause a framerate drop, they will be axed. If 6,000 various bracket icons cause a framerate drop, they will be axed.
The very nature of EVE is the fight for that last few %performance. Visual considerations will always take a backseat to actually loading that grid and winning the fight. As to whether the highest end hardware could run a 1k man fleet fight at full quality without disabling brackets, drone models, etc. I have no idea. My own hardware is sadly far from that ideal. The game engine itself could be the problem there rather than hitting any hardware bottlekneck.
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Bantros
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.05 13:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild I don't understand some of you. Sure, eye candy can be nice (as a little bonus on the side in an otherwise interesting game with good game play), but how can you find the eye candy itself to be the "fun" in a game and play a game specifically for the visuals? It seems rather mindless.
It's people like you that keep really good games (or good movies for that matter, with good stories instead of just some "cool" special effects) from being made.
Because games are a work of art. Some titles just push the boundaries of what can be achieved with graphics. I don't play games just for the graphics, but impressive visuals certainly make a great game even better
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Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.04.05 16:24:00 -
[41]
Hardware use when running eve in a mission (20-30 ships) - maybe 40%
hardware use when in a 100vs100pvp - say 90% usage.
Your hypothetical situation is to max graphics usage in missions, then what happens when you try to have a fleet war? does it come down to having to reduce your graphics every time you form a fleet or do the people with the stronger computers have the advantage due to the fact that they can run eve at more then 5fps.
This is why mmos never push graphics. they can not control every situation that people can get in to and the number of people on screen, unlike single player games which can dictate exactly what is going to be on screen and max our performance to accommodate.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: TigerXtrm This has little to do with being arrogant and more with my gradual loss of faith in my own species.
Including yourself, obviously.
Originally by: Birdman Ravo Eve is also available for Mac, and CCP still takes measures to see the Linux community happily running Eve through whatever means they see fit. Consideration has to be given to compatibility. All the eye candy our cards can offer us won't amount to anything to the player who finds the client doesn't work anymore.
Originally by: MalVortex
Disingenuous? Perhaps - but the game can look close to whats advertised if you run the highest end equipment. A better question would be whether the game can look that good while actually in a fleet fight - shiny graphics are nice, but its the overview you care about. If rendering 500 drone models with realtime shadowing and HDR causes a framerate drop, it will be axed. If 7,000 turret batteries cause a framerate drop, they will be axed. If 6,000 various bracket icons cause a framerate drop, they will be axed.
The graphical options introduced should obviously be a toggle.
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Congratulations to all the ******s who can't figure out how to force AA in EVE.
Hint: It involves using both your brain and your driver control panel.
/wrist if you still can't work it out
If you were paying attention, you'd know for many people this simply doesn't work, and for others like myself it introduces instability such as blue screens and crashing. Full marks for effort though, like the little insult at the end, really makes you appear intelligent and knowledgable. Keep it up.
Originally by: Epicbeardman Edited by: Epicbeardman on 05/04/2010 06:15:35 I couldn't disagree more.
The quality of games has decreased in direct proportion to the increase in processing power. Compare the System Shocks to Bioshock, Baldur's Gate to Dragon Age, GTA:VC to IV, the first two Fallouts to Fallout 3, Deus Ex, MOH:AA, C&C, PoP:Sands of Time and Unreal Tournament to their respective sequels, Diablo to it's endless list of next generation clones and I could go on for a good few minutes.
Point is, the latter in the above massive breakage of Rule 17 are always, ALWAYS the lesser.
Make the game better, not prettier.
Edit: I missed Dwarf Fortress. If that's not proof, I don't know what is.
This consists entirely of your subjective opinion. For example I believe GTA IV is the best GTA, in terms of both gameplay and graphics. Graphics and gameplay are not mutually exclusive; we already know Eve is a great game, so great(er) graphics would be the icing on top.
Originally by: Entre Envy
Because the thing you spend your free time doing is 100% better than the thing he does during his free time.
100/14 = 7 100 -7 = 93
So what he is doing is only 93% better
-omg-
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.04.06 02:45:00 -
[43]
Age of Conan had awesome graphics AND was an MMO based on Conan, can't go wrong, right?
Wrong.
Flashy graphics are cool the first few times you look at them then the game must rest on it's gameplay, complexity and depth of strategy.
Nice graphics are great but overall a pretty worthless barometer of how fun a game will be. Lots of incredible looking games that don't even come close to reaching above Mike Tyson's Punchout as far as gameplay.
I'd play old school unruined UO as an MMO long before most of the current trash that's being released regardless of how much more advanced the graphics are.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2010.04.06 10:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gorefacer Age of Conan had awesome graphics AND was an MMO based on Conan, can't go wrong, right?
Wrong.
Flashy graphics are cool the first few times you look at them then the game must rest on it's gameplay, complexity and depth of strategy.
Nice graphics are great but overall a pretty worthless barometer of how fun a game will be. Lots of incredible looking games that don't even come close to reaching above Mike Tyson's Punchout as far as gameplay.
I'd play old school unruined UO as an MMO long before most of the current trash that's being released regardless of how much more advanced the graphics are.
True. I also loved to play UO a long time, but there is NO rule that says: "Good graphics -> Bad gameplay" and "Good gameplay <- Bad graphics". I want bothe and i think everyone else too.
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.04.06 15:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Aera Aiana
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...
It's not only hardware. I'm on win7 right now, but I plan to go back to XP in the next couple of months (or probably more like the next time win7's crapsplorer can't delete a directory because one of its files is "opened" by said piece of garbage). No DX10 on XP though :-(
LMAO ya win xp never has locked files lol, atleast sometimes 7 will show whats holding the file open and when u close the file it acutally lets u erase it, in xp half the time u close the app that was causing the lock and it just remains locked....
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:34:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Barakkus on 06/04/2010 16:34:03
Originally by: Lord Helghast
Originally by: Aera Aiana
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil People running it in 9 obviously won't get all of the benefits, but there's no reason to limit the potential of a game because certain people can't afford better hardware...
It's not only hardware. I'm on win7 right now, but I plan to go back to XP in the next couple of months (or probably more like the next time win7's crapsplorer can't delete a directory because one of its files is "opened" by said piece of garbage). No DX10 on XP though :-(
LMAO ya win xp never has locked files lol, atleast sometimes 7 will show whats holding the file open and when u close the file it acutally lets u erase it, in xp half the time u close the app that was causing the lock and it just remains locked....
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2010.04.06 18:43:00 -
[47]
Point 2 with the op doesn't take into account the massive amount of PC users out there that may be playing EVE that do not run STEAM at all or that have opted out of taking part in the hardware survey. It also assumes that the STEAM survey is all-encompassing, whereas some users, such as myself, have never used it due to the frequency of hardware component variation of the systems I use, whether built for clients or my own.
EVE, like its competing MMOs, is designed to be accessible. Providing too much potential 'bling' to users can cause problems when those that have their massively pimped up machines (read: the PC daddy bought me for my birthday that cost as much as the mortgage on our house) inevitably run into performance issues largely attributed to TCP-stack issues in massive fleet battles.
Those kiddies then begin to whine because they can't run EVE at max+10 settings across several different clients and decide to quit the game because CCP obviously doesn't know what they're doing.
Give the end-user too many options and they will find a way to make it your problem when they misunderstand, make misuse of or are completely ignorant as to the requirements and/or inherent limitations of a function. ---
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