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Asuka Smith
Gallente
Noir.
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 05/04/2010 19:15:36
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 05/04/2010 19:14:18
Hello, I believe that right now Gallente are very underpowered and have numerous and grievous flaws. I will list what I perceive as the flaws below, with a brief explanation of why I have come to the conclusions I have.
First off, drone-reliance has turned from a boon into a liability. A ship that does a majority of it's DPS in large sized drones instead of guns is at a severe disadvantage. Guns have no travel time, and guns work well against same sized targets. For example, if two ships do similar DPS but one has a 50m3-75m3 drone bay and the other has a 25m3 dronebay then the smaller sized dronebay is at a huge advantage. Not only does it do the same DPS, but it has smaller faster drones that can hit smaller sized as well as same sized targets.
For this reason the Vagabond is better than the Ishtar. The Ishtar does about the same DPS but relies on it's big and slow drones. The Vagabond, in addition to being WAY faster, uses light drones which could kill a frigate and at the same time continue doing tremendous gun damage to a target. If an Ishtar wants to kill a frigate it has to pull the ogres in and go from 450 DPS to 80. I tend to see most Ishtars fitting sentry drones and hiding out at range these days, because they are simply not worth it at all compared to other better options with a heavy drone loadout.
My final word on the subject of drone viability is that drones are destructable and guns are not. If you kill a vexors drones he is screwed, if you kill a Rupture's drones he will be fine. The versatility of having drones is presently out of whack with the penalties. While the Vexor ostensibly has more options, in reality it does not. Does it want to do DPS, or does it want to try and kill frigates? The Rupture does both just as well and at the same time. If you think having a flight of ECM drones in reserve is worth all of these downsides well then I would have to say that I disagree.
Secondly, the 7.5% active armor repair bonus. This bonus is only better than the 5% resistance bonus in EXTREMELY limited circumstances, and the fact that most people fit shields and waste the bonus entirely is a pretty stunning indictment of how poor it is. The Myrmidon is the only ship with that bonus that actually uses it; The Hyperion would use it no one uses the Hyperion.
Third, hybrids are very poor. Lasers are better in every situation that Projectiles are not. The ability to instantly change ammo means that the Abaddon is literally the same as a Megathron except better. The Abaddon does less than 50 numerical DPS less at blaster optimal, and can switch instantly to scorch to do DPS at 50km, a range that the Megathron would need to fit Railguns to hit at.
Railguns are also very poor, and in addition railgun ships are very poor. Eagle/Deimos are not even considered viable compared to a Zealot/Muninn. Zealot will hit to the same range as an Eagle, because even though 250mm's might have more range the Eagle does not have the PG to make them fit. That is not just a ship issue though, the tremendous fitting requirements as well as the terrible DPS make them simply not worth it. Compared to the better weapons and better weapons platforms offered by other races the only reason to use hybrids would be because it is the only thing you have trained.
And my last point, that so many ships are hideously flawed to be unusable
Eos: Ganglink bonuses are stacking penalized with SDAs, DPS/Tank are lackluster.
Astarte/Deimos: Both more expensive 10% better versions of a Brutix.
Myrmidon: Borked dronebay, only viable fitting is the joke triple rep these day.
Enyo: There is literally not one single worthwhile fit.
Hyperion: EXTREMELY limited use, only time better than a Mega is in a 1v1.
TL;DR
Gallente have a lot of issues, they are often the worst in most comparisons both in terms of ships and racial modules.
I hope CCP is listening!
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Vlakorados
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:11:00 -
[2]
Well done sir. Agree 100%
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Tyrone Bighams
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:16:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 05/04/2010 19:15:36
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 05/04/2010 19:14:18
The Myrmidon is the only ship with that bonus that actually uses it [7.5% armor repair bonus]
The Myrmidon is actually broken to the point where it does better in missions and most other places when it is shield tanked passively
CCP. Hear my prayer from atop your bone strewn tower! Boost Gallente, for they have become free kills in todays fleet warfare due to poor range, ineffective webs, and terrible speed. Do this and yo
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Ulyis
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Vlakorados
Well done sir. Agree 100%
*Nods*
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:28:00 -
[5]
Well, I don't disagree in aggregate. However, I have some comments:
- Drones don't require specific active control (such as a target).
- Drones don't require fittings or slots. This means you can devote your fittings+slots to other purposes - like RR or tank.
- Drones are effectively "trackingless" in the same sense that missiles are. That's what made the nano ishtar so awesome - zooming around the enemy at 6kms with a 30k disruptor while your drones chewed them up.
- Armor tanking slows your ship down too much - especially when the goal is to get into range and deal damage quickly.
- Active armor tanking requires way too much capacitor. The main culprit here is that ships can't maintain an active tank without cap boosters.
- Railguns aren't *that* bad. They were better than artillery until very recently. They do need a raw damage boost though. About 10% IIRC.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Tyrone Bighams
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Well, I don't disagree in aggregate. However, I have some comments:
- Drones don't require specific active control (such as a target).
- Drones don't require fittings or slots. This means you can devote your fittings+slots to other purposes - like RR or tank.
- Drones are effectively "trackingless" in the same sense that missiles are. That's what made the nano ishtar so awesome - zooming around the enemy at 6kms with a 30k disruptor while your drones chewed them up.
- Armor tanking slows your ship down too much - especially when the goal is to get into range and deal damage quickly.
- Active armor tanking requires way too much capacitor. The main culprit here is that ships can't maintain an active tank without cap boosters.
- Railguns aren't *that* bad. They were better than artillery until very recently. They do need a raw damage boost though. About 10% IIRC.
-Liang
Agree with Liang on all but one point. Drones have all those different pros and cons because they were meant to be a supplementary weapons system to true weapons. this is proven by the fact that while a Drone Domi can have a fantastic tank, even with bonuses to drones it cant approach the damage of a ship using projectiles or lasers. this is also why, aside from carriers which use fighters, not drones, all drone boats can fit weapons, and even occasionally get gun bonuses.
CCP. Hear my prayer from atop your bone strewn tower! Boost Gallente, for they have become free kills in todays fleet warfare due to poor range, ineffective webs, and terrible speed! |
Snyderm
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:02:00 -
[7]
I don't agree with some of Liang's positive comments about the versitility of drones, because this discussion leaves out one of my main complaints.
Drones don't always work. They tend to pick different targets to attack, regardless of whether your focus fire option is on. That makes them largely worthless if you are jammed, and largely annoying even if you aren't.
You also have to alter their settings frequently from aggressive to passive in order to give your drones attacking orders. Strangely, your drones will disagree with your orders and attack something else after you have given them marching orders.
I am not entirely sure these problems occur in PVP, but I know they happen frequently in PVE.
So not only do Gallante ships need rebalancing, Drones in general also need to be actually fixed so that they function properly.
CCP won't bother to fix actual bugs, I don't have much confidence they will actually get around to rebalancing.
Because Gallante are the Washington Generals of EVE. |
Caelum Bootes
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:03:00 -
[8]
What's wrong with Gallente?
Well I tell you what's wrong with Gallente!
Gallente Female avatar has massive boobs and we can't see the whole boobs! 
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Tyrone Bighams
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Caelum Bootes
What's wrong with Gallente?
Well I tell you what's wrong with Gallente!
Gallente Female avatar has massive boobs and we can't see the whole boobs!
Obvious troll is too obvious. Sorry man take it somewhere else 
CCP. Hear my prayer from atop your bone strewn tower! Boost Gallente, for they have become free kills in todays fleet warfare due to poor range, ineffective webs, and terrible speed! |
Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Snyderm
Drones don't always work. They tend to pick different targets to attack, regardless of whether your focus fire option is on. That makes them largely worthless if you are jammed, and largely annoying even if you aren't.
That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point of my post was that you can't rattle off all of the down sides to a weapons system without bringing up any of the nice things either. Also, I've used drones a lot in PVP, and anywhere that they're actually an asset this tends not to be that big of a problem. I suppose you should also bring up that drones scale even worse than missiles - and even blasters! - as gang sizes go up. :)
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:24:00 -
[11]
Just to chime in on the hybrids, I believe the Gallente have the DPS approach to things. Railguns for all practical purposes are a great PVE weapon (probably one of the best) for having great DPS at long ranges. However, they are naturally lackluster in PVP.
My thing is, I believe that it is not possible for all races to have the best of all things. I think Gallente have some great damage capabilities, but they are not the best snipers. The rest of it is all up for discussion yeah. I like the tank and gank approach Gallente have. It's seeped into many of my ship setups for various races.
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Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:30:00 -
[12]
Hey Sigari, while you have time to post. How about settling the various debts you have with numberous people.
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Onin Ra
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Onin Ra on 05/04/2010 23:06:26
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Drones don't require fittings or slots. This means you can devote your fittings+slots to other purposes - like RR or tank.
Thats right, that is why, full pack of bonused t2 ogres do almost 2 times less dps than a full rack of large blasters for example(granted with 2dmg mods), need to travel to a target, can be killed, can be lost, don't have actual dmg modules, can't be overloaded. Isn't that abit too much just so you can fit couple of Remote Reps?
Plust, everyone and their mum use ecm drones, and them being ridicilously overpowered puts a drone boat at even bigger dis-advantage. Drone boat CANT use ecm drones, since it is 50^-80% of its actual dps. On the other hand, ruptures and hurricanes/harbs enjoy all the benefits of this stupid and overpowered ECM mechanics to the fullest. Jammed Drone Boat doesnt lose its DPS yeah, but it loses all the suposed utility it gets from drones not taking any high slots.
meh, you'd think doing 50%dmg reduction would be enough for having some extra utility slots, but if only that was the case.
---
First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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CCP Shadow
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:28:00 -
[14]
Off-topic post(s) removed.
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:33:00 -
[15]
gallente are french who cares, nerf gallente to death
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tian Nu
gallente are french who cares, nerf gallente to death
Already done, we're trying to reverse that :)
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Onin Ra
Edited by: Onin Ra on 05/04/2010 23:06:26
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Drones don't require fittings or slots. This means you can devote your fittings+slots to other purposes - like RR or tank.
Thats right, that is why, full pack of bonused t2 ogres do almost 2 times less dps than a full rack of large blasters for example(granted with 2dmg mods), need to travel to a target, can be killed, can be lost, don't have actual dmg modules, can't be overloaded. Isn't that abit too much just so you can fit couple of Remote Reps?
Plust, everyone and their mum use ecm drones, and them being ridicilously overpowered puts a drone boat at even bigger dis-advantage. Drone boat CANT use ecm drones, since it is 50^-80% of its actual dps. On the other hand, ruptures and hurricanes/harbs enjoy all the benefits of this stupid and overpowered ECM mechanics to the fullest. Jammed Drone Boat doesnt lose its DPS yeah, but it loses all the suposed utility it gets from drones not taking any high slots.
meh, you'd think doing 50%dmg reduction would be enough for having some extra utility slots, but if only that was the case.
Drone control can be transfered to a gang mate. A nice advantage when being jammed, especially when it comes to sentry drones vs. distant ECM boats. No other weapon system can be switched immediately from short range (or anti-small-ship) to long range and then transfered within the fleet. 50% dmg reduction sounds more or less fair imho considering this flexibility.
Also: if drones would do more damage, what keeps a drone ship pilot away from fitting a full rack of guns and damage mods - instead of utility modules?
I agree to the other points of the OP but drones seem ok to me.
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Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> *
A --------> *
V --------> *
E -------> *
N ---------> *
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:38:00 -
[18]
I'm sorry, but this post is so full of ignorant whining that I scarcely know where to begin. I suppose I'll take it from the top.
Originally by: Onin Ra
Thats right, that is why, full pack of bonused t2 ogres do almost 2 times less dps than a full rack of large blasters for example(granted with 2dmg mods), need to travel to a target, can be killed, can be lost, don't have actual dmg modules, can't be overloaded. Isn't that abit too much just so you can fit couple of Remote Reps?
Spoken like someone that's not got any experience with logistics domis. Protip: Logistics domis are AMAZING at logistics, still put out very respectable damage, AND still have pretty solid damage projection.
Quote:
Plust, everyone and their mum use ecm drones, and them being ridicilously overpowered puts a drone boat at even bigger dis-advantage. Drone boat CANT use ecm drones, since it is 50^-80% of its actual dps. On the other hand, ruptures and hurricanes/harbs enjoy all the benefits of this stupid and overpowered ECM mechanics to the fullest.
And it gets better. You see, the crazy thing about having a huge drone bay is that you don't have to permanently sacrifice 158 DPS because you'd like to bring along a set of OH**** drones. 
Quote:
Jammed Drone Boat doesnt lose its DPS yeah, but it loses all the suposed utility it gets from drones not taking any high slots.
The funny thing here is that you're STILL doing more than anyone else in this position. Jam a Zealot (no drones) and what can he do? Bump you?
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
DXYOC
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Posted - 2010.04.06 11:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- Active armor tanking requires way too much capacitor. The main culprit here is that ships can't maintain an active tank without cap boosters.
You pretty much need double cap boosters to run a full active tank.
And drones also suck for lowsec because of the sentry guns.
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Pegasus IX
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Posted - 2010.04.06 11:31:00 -
[20]
imo one of the primary problems with drones is the fact that there are NOT modules to resonably augment their damage.
On top of that, there are no T2 versions of the existing drone modules.
Using a hislot with the only effect of extending your drone range is uber lame! Make the link augmenter increase their tracking quite a bit too, then we might be onto something.
Oh and regarding blasters and hybrids.... You just have to look at the dps comparisons people have done with the Kronos vs any other marauder and you see why they suck. Rails need a smallish boost to DPS, blasters need a small boost to dps+tracking.
Blasters SHOULD be face melting if you are in range, since their range sucks.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Here Be Dragons
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Posted - 2010.04.06 12:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Just to chime in on the hybrids, I believe the Gallente have the DPS approach to things. Railguns for all practical purposes are a great PVE weapon (probably one of the best) for having great DPS at long ranges. However, they are naturally lackluster in PVP.
If you are using railguns for PVE you are doing it wrong, just look up all the "I now use my Kronos as my salvage boat" threads.
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2010.04.06 12:40:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Thats right, that is why, full pack of bonused t2 ogres do almost 2 times less dps than a full rack of large blasters for example(granted with 2dmg mods), need to travel to a target, can be killed, can be lost, don't have actual dmg modules, can't be overloaded. Isn't that abit too much just so you can fit couple of Remote Reps?
Except that the entire ****ing ship needs to travel to the target to do damage with blasters, not always a trivial proposition.
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.06 13:16:00 -
[23]
TOM NOVY - Take It feat. Lima
Originally by: Asuka Smith
First off, drone-reliance has turned from a boon into a liability. A ship that does a majority of it's DPS in large sized drones instead of guns is at a severe disadvantage. Guns have no travel time, and guns work well against same sized targets. For example, if two ships do similar DPS but one has a 50m3-75m3 drone bay and the other has a 25m3 dronebay then the smaller sized dronebay is at a huge advantage. Not only does it do the same DPS, but it has smaller faster drones that can hit smaller sized as well as same sized targets.
Only if the larger dronebayship is flown by a tool that can't pick a sane drone-size/target-size ratio...the
75m3 pilot has space both for 5 x Light drones(25m3) and 5 x Medium drones (50m3)...epic fail *rolling eyes*
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Syrous Tlesta
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Posted - 2010.04.06 15:06:00 -
[24]
I actually sold my 20m Gallente HAC/BS pilot on char bazaar for some of these exact reasons and got a Minmatar pilot instead. I can honestly say I would have been happy to stay with Gallente if 3 changes had been made.
1) Increased blaster optimal (even if they did nothing else, this right here would have made my day)
2) Drone focus fire functionality fix (I hated see 2 drones go this way and 3 go that. Might as well just return the drones to bay and give up :-P)
3) A better looking battlecruiser. :-P (Ok, this has nothing to do with the topic but I still think it is a gallente imbalance! I mean come on, one looks like the elephant man's head with tiny little wings and the other is the bird top of a totem pole. Every other race has at least 1 decent looking BC
On a side note- I don't see a need for a significant increase in dps on the Gallente without reworking their status as drone carriers, either. Because in the end if they were to both fix drones and assist in making the ships themselves more viable without drones, the combination would make Gallente ships extremely overpowered.
Oh and get rid of that stupid repair bonus on the hyperion and give it something useful- even a passive increase to EHP would be nice. It's the nicest looking ship the Gallente have and no one really uses it because anything it can do the Megathron can do many times better.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.06 15:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Syrous Tlesta
1) Increased blaster optimal (even if they did nothing else, this right here would have made my day)
To what? 10KM on Neut Cannons? 15KM? It's still very short range once you're using Antimatter, and does nothing to fix the comparatively small gap in damage between lasers, ACs, and Blasters on fitted battleships (and it seems fitted medium sized ships as well). Increased range would give you marginally increased damage projection to no real benefit.
A significant raw DPS increase raises your damage projection a bit (because it raises the complete damage curve) while making Blasters ferocious at close range, which is what I really believe they deserve. I honestly think even +25% blaster DPS would remain balanced if the range stays very short.
I'm totally with you on all other points though. Drones need another "stern talking to" and the world would be a better place if Minmatar and Gallente rep bonuses were changed to resist bonuses as well. (Fu** FLAVAR when it comes to tanking.)
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.04.06 15:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Syrous Tlesta
On a side note- I don't see a need for a significant increase in dps on the Gallente without reworking their status as drone carriers, either. Because in the end if they were to both fix drones and assist in making the ships themselves more viable without drones, the combination would make Gallente ships extremely overpowered.
The main problem with blasters right now is not their short optimal range, because that's kind of the whole mentality behind blaster ships. The problem is the fact that (in the case of mega vs geddon) the dps increase from pulses to blasters is only about 12%. Not even close to being worth the ridiculously short range, and an increase to blaster optimal would do nothing save make them more like pulses, and we kind of already have pulses for that :P
As for the thought of gallente ships being OP, what exactly would make them so? Any boost to drones affects all races, because as it stands caldari are the only ones without a BS sporting at least enough room for a full set of heavies, not to mention that blasters, even if given a massive (think in the realm of like 300%) damage boost would still only be effective in a very small engagement envelope. (Note that I'd not suggesting they need a massive boost like that, I personally would like to see a 10-15% increase in blaster DPS)
TLDR: No matter how good you make blasters at crazy short ranges, as long as they're only viable at such short ranges there shouldn't be much of a problem, and as for drones, well all races use them so any sort of drone FIX (as in, not a buff) would affect all races. |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cambarus
(Note that I'd not suggesting they need a massive boost like that, I personally would like to see a 10-15% increase in blaster DPS)
Agree. TBH, I think ALL Hybrids need 15% more dps.
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+15% to railguns' dmg modifier
-reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70%
+10% to Caldari railboats PG |
Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:30:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 06/04/2010 16:31:01
Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 06/04/2010 16:30:41
Yes drones do far less dps then other gun types, but the whole point of having different races is that not all of them are going to be the same. Each person gets to pick what they want to do and specialize in that.
You don't like blasters and rail guns? it takes 30 days to train medium t2 guns and tech2 cruisers to respec to another race. you still have all your support skills.
Drones have the advantage of staying on target even if you lose target. Go up against a Falcon and see what happens if you can target him. watch him run around trying to shoot your drones or trying to run away from your ECM drones that you kept in your huge drone bay just for this occasion.
Plus, start a mission with a domi, aggroing a group of guys, putting on your dual LAR cap stable tank and going to make a sandwich, come back, aggro another group, eat sandwich, and keep aggroing. no need to switch from target to target by hand when you can run 800-1k mission specific tank and wasting no cap otherwise. Toss on a few tractors and salvagers on your domi instead of guns and see how much time you save when you finish a mission and everything is already looted and salvaged with no need to come back on another ship.
Just my 2 cents on how i flew.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Originally by: Cambarus
(Note that I'd not suggesting they need a massive boost like that, I personally would like to see a 10-15% increase in blaster DPS)
Agree. TBH, I think ALL Hybrids need 15% more dps.
It works but its abit meh really - your just bumping the dps to match lasers better without producing a weapon system thats defined and ... well .... interesting. Lasers are nice and defined now, proj are nice and defined, hybrids just combine the worst of both.
I'd go for something like;
+10% damage mod.
5 second reload
pair up the ammo types so at each range
One type +tracking 3:1 therm to kin
The other type - cap use 3:1 kin to therm
Maybe drop the rof and up the damage mod to give a better volley then lasers, their meant to be sniper guns and lasers do more dps - fine but volley? wtf. Sorts out ammo issues 2.
That way they get buffed but give more options 2.
/derail.
That'd fix the gal railboats, just the caldari left 
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Exploding Tukey
Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 06/04/2010 16:31:01
You don't like blasters and rail guns? it takes 30 days to train medium t2 guns and tech2 cruisers to respec to another race. you still have all your support skills.
Great so it's broken, go train something else. That doesn't fix them because they're still broken.
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Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Off-topic post(s) removed.
ok, but please refrain from posting off-topic in the future.
Thank you
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Hyperion: EXTREMELY limited use, only time better than a Mega is in a 1v1.
You can forget about the rep bonus and plate it outside of 1vs1 (only one plate, single plated Hyperion and dual plated Mega have very close ehps). You then have a more agile mega with less CPU issues. The extra mid can be used for a tracking comp if you think you'll miss the mega tracking bonus...
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081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ogogov
Originally by: Exploding Tukey
Edited by: Exploding Tukey on 06/04/2010 16:31:01
You don't like blasters and rail guns? it takes 30 days to train medium t2 guns and tech2 cruisers to respec to another race. you still have all your support skills.
Great so it's broken, go train something else. That doesn't fix them because they're still broken.
This is the usuall line fotm players bring up ,if somebody ask for a nerf or boost for balance's sake.
Instead of supporting such efforts they try to bring false/ignorant arguments to lenghten out their OP/better ships time before eventual balancing.
For these ppl everything is fine until it means their ships come out on top.
It is clear that gallente hybrid ships are weak and need a boost ,both for the hybrids and ships.
Btw arguing that drones are good so gallente is balance is stupid,first drones are not only gall weapons ,2nd only drones dont make any ships useable,3rd drones arent that awesome.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.04.06 21:06:00 -
[34]
Some good points here.
Hype - terrible ship, active armour tank with 4 mids is nutty. Dropping active bonus for resists bonus would be a welcome change.
Myrm - I don't hate the myrm and fly it a fair bit but it would do well with a 100 bwidth.
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Onin Ra
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.04.06 23:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MarieFrance Tessier
Except that the entire ****ing ship needs to travel to the target to do damage with blasters, not always a trivial proposition.
Yeah, and drones are INSTANT DMG, Ogres II speed is what? 1050m/s, and the blaster boat is the only one that needs aproaching, hello geddon/abaddon/tempest etc.
Quote:
Spoken like someone that's not got any experience with logistics domis. Protip: Logistics domis are AMAZING at logistics, still put out very respectable damage, AND still have pretty solid damage projection.
Meh, the only BS i fly IS the Logistic Domi. It is great, but we are talking about ALL gallente ships, not just Domis here aren't we?
Quote:
And it gets better. You see, the crazy thing about having a huge drone bay is that you don't have to permanently sacrifice 158 DPS because you'd like to bring along a set of OH**** drones.
Sure, that makes sense, you can carry them around, but thats about it. Just carry them around. Thanks god for that huge bay eh ?
Quote:
The funny thing here is that you're STILL doing more than anyone else in this position. Jam a Zealot (no drones) and what can he do? Bump you?
Oh no, poor Zealot gonna get jammed sitting at 100km away pre-aligned, whatever will he do!!1!11 I am not saying that drones boats get the short stick vs ECM, im saying its kinda silly people think its such a huge advantage. Its not, in most situations you are just screwed as everyone else.
---
First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari
Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.04.07 02:25:00 -
[36]
I think they must take too many drugs or soemthing?
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Semaj Notlimah
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Posted - 2010.04.07 04:49:00 -
[37]
Gallente has nothing wrong. We have good and bad ships like the rest of the world.
What we are good at: Drones, good hac's, good battleships, and good recons. What is there to hate?
Enyo= Best Ratting AS =D
Ishtar= best 0.0 plexing ship (non-faction)
Dominix= Best tier 1 battleship
Megathron= Best gank bs in my opinion
Arazu/lachesis= Must haves in fleets
Brutix= best tier 1 battlecruiser
Thanatos= cool looking =D
Nyx= Best super carrier by a long shot
The whole drone argument is flawed because if you had skill at organizing drones, you wouldnt be losing them. Also look up sentries, I hear they exist...
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Dengen Krastinov
Amarr
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.07 10:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Dengen Krastinov on 07/04/2010 10:24:21
Originally by: Semaj Notlimah
Gallente has nothing wrong. We have good and bad ships like the rest of the world.
What we are good at: Drones, good hac's, good battleships, and good recons. What is there to hate?
Enyo= Best Ratting AS =D
Ishtar= best 0.0 plexing ship (non-faction)
Dominix= Best tier 1 battleship
Megathron= Best gank bs in my opinion
Arazu/lachesis= Must haves in fleets
Brutix= best tier 1 battlecruiser
Thanatos= cool looking =D
Nyx= Best super carrier by a long shot
The whole drone argument is flawed because if you had skill at organizing drones, you wouldnt be losing them. Also look up sentries, I hear they exist...
Enyo- wrong
Ishtar - correct
Dominix - meh, its up there. wouldnt say the best though.
Megathron - wrong. typhoon.
Arazu/Lachesis - lol? only if you want to . by no means necessary.
Brutix - cyclone is better 1v1. Fleets, meh sure.
Thanatos - ugly
Nyx - Aeon is pretty much just as good but both are better than the hel in every way.
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SuperNova221
Ragnarok Rising
THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.04.07 10:37:00 -
[39]
Edited by: SuperNova221 on 07/04/2010 10:37:16
Originally by: Dengen Krastinov
Nyx - Aeon is pretty much just as good but both are better than the hel in every way.
Aeon is the ugliest ship in the game, and yes, I have seen the imicus.
It's a true "There were two downs syndrome designers who also happened to be monkeys who had never met each other, were both locked in seperate rooms for two weeks and were given crayons and some paper and told to draw half a spaceship then the two halves were put together" ship. I'm being serious, I know somebody how used to own an Aeon (alliance got it for him) but he always used him Archon purely because of looks.
To the point of the thread though, +15% hybrid damage... that works. Makes the weapons unique like laser/projectiles but still makes them viable.
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Hyperion: EXTREMELY limited use, only time better than a Mega is in a 1v1.
You can forget about the rep bonus and plate it outside of 1vs1 (only one plate, single plated Hyperion and dual plated Mega have very close ehps). You then have a more agile mega with less CPU issues. The extra mid can be used for a tracking comp if you think you'll miss the mega tracking bonus...
Fix the Hyperion by giving it the ability to actually fit this: Its a Tier 3 battleship FFS, give it the abaddon's PG :P
[Hyperion, Blasters]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Ogre II x4
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari
Psykotic Meat
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:26:00 -
[41]
Give me my damage/tracking boost for my blasters pl0x. Also get rid of drone bandwidth. It is absolutely ******ed and there really was no point to adding it.
Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it?
http://www.wi-alliance.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678
http://roadkill.igs-corp.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=32678 |
Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:56:00 -
[42]
omg ... just crosstrain (not so hard with proper support skills) ... it is just in ur heads guys.
I can fly all races subcaps and can use most weapon systems and it is just situational ... for some types of actions you just need specific approach and some races are better in situations then others.
Gals are good in close quarter gate rumble (no matter that Amar are still better) or their AFs are also nice ganking ships. Federation Comet is really dangerous one.
If you cannot use blasters just check internet for tips before you scream how nerfed they are (actually when u get in scram web range, they are uber).
"There is no honor in war, s |
Omir Kajil
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Posted - 2010.04.08 18:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Asuka Smith
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 05/04/2010 19:15:36
the Vagabond is better than the Ishtar. The Ishtar does about the same DPS but relies on it's big and slow drones. The Vagabond, in addition to being WAY faster, uses light drones which could kill a frigate and at the same time continue doing tremendous gun damage to a target. If an Ishtar wants to kill a frigate it has to pull the ogres in and go from 450 DPS to 80. I tend to see most Ishtars fitting sentry drones and hiding out at range these days, because they are simply not worth it at all compared to other better options with a heavy drone loadout
are you for real?
well let's take a look at this for a moment...
...
1. Ishtar has 125 m3 of drone space, yes, that by itself is 5 heavies or sentries
2. however: + 50 m3 drone capacity per heavy assault ship level
3. train to lvl 2. add one group of med drones and 2 groups of lights
4. ???
5. Profit
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fin mac
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:20:00 -
[44]
very interesting read, I'm a big fan of mega's, seems to do the trick in most pvp i've engaged in with one.
what i really wanted to know was this, after all the hard work everybody has put into their post's on this subject do the Dev's actually read them, and does any good ever come of it?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:41:00 -
[45]
Originally by: fin mac
very interesting read, I'm a big fan of mega's, seems to do the trick in most pvp i've engaged in with one.
what i really wanted to know was this, after all the hard work everybody has put into their post's on this subject do the Dev's actually read them, and does any good ever come of it?
It worked for Projectiles. It just took a very, very long time...
The CSM pushed the topic for several years in a row though, which is what I think got CCP to finally look into it. CSM applications are due soon, someone who cares about getting this fixed in short order better apply. 
Someone willing to tackle this issue would definitely get my vote.
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: fin mac
what i really wanted to know was this, after all the hard work everybody has put into their post's on this subject do the Dev's actually read them, and does any good ever come of it?
Yes, I have seen tons of evidence that CCP does in fact read ships and modules, and that they do take our arguments to heart. Sometimes. :)
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Trevor Warps
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Wacktopia
Hype - terrible ship, active armour tank is not possible with dual rep and injectors due to pg.
Edit: hype has 5 mids, the dual rep fitting issue comes from the low pg.
It only has pg issues when fitting dual rep thanks if you try to stick 425mm, neutron blaster or a doomsday.
Other than that it got plenty of PG to do this.
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DXYOC
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Posted - 2010.04.09 09:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Trevor Warps
Another nub who wants to have his cake and eat it. What other ship can dual rep dual inject with mid tiers full rack of guns ? None ? Sounds about right.
Not suggesting anything , but the baddon can.
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Soon Shin
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Posted - 2010.04.10 02:52:00 -
[49]
For a Race that Focuses on Blasting their enemies and using their drones for close combat killing, their ships are slow. Not to mention Armor Plates and Rig slow the ships down.
I think Gallente Ships need a speed boost and agility boost so that they can actually accomplish what they're supposed to do. They're not much faster than Caldari or Amarr ships to able to successfully reach them quickly enough.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.10 03:31:00 -
[50]
CCP give these whiners their tracking bonus if it shuts them up. It's not like blasters need good tracking when the target should be dual webbed/scramed going about 2 mph
....but no more dps for hybrids, fit more magstabs and htfu
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.10 03:42:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Trader20 on 10/04/2010 03:46:16
Originally by: Soon Shin
For a Race that Focuses on Blasting their enemies and using their drones for close combat killing, their ships are slow. Not to mention Armor Plates and Rig slow the ships down.
I think Gallente Ships need a speed boost and agility boost so that they can actually accomplish what they're supposed to do. They're not much faster than Caldari or Amarr ships to able to successfully reach them quickly enough.
so why do u think ccp gave gal ships armor rep bonuses instead of res bonuses? hmmmm maybe because ur suppose to fit an active tank over a plated buffer tank that would slow u down. Yes I know active tanks are not preferred for pvp but if u want to be faster/more agile downsize the plates and fit an active tank or no tank. Can't have it all so stop whining.
Also u ppl need to learn how to burst ur mwd. Half u rtards keep ur mwd running when u have a target web/scramed in optimal then u ***** about cappin out
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2010.04.10 03:54:00 -
[52]
did somebody said thet the DieMost is a good HAC? cuz I can fly it with good skills but people say it's bad so I keep mine @ hangar. |
Baneken
Gallente
Aseveljet
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.10 07:37:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
did somebody said thet the DieMost is a good HAC? cuz I can fly it with good skills but people say it's bad so I keep mine @ hangar.
Well it performs about the same a regular thorax only some more dps, not something you'd think from a 120mil cruiser that get primaried as soon as it's spotted. 
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.04.10 16:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 10/04/2010 03:46:16
Originally by: Soon Shin
For a Race that Focuses on Blasting their enemies and using their drones for close combat killing, their ships are slow. Not to mention Armor Plates and Rig slow the ships down.
I think Gallente Ships need a speed boost and agility boost so that they can actually accomplish what they're supposed to do. They're not much faster than Caldari or Amarr ships to able to successfully reach them quickly enough.
so why do u think ccp gave gal ships armor rep bonuses instead of res bonuses? hmmmm maybe because ur suppose to fit an active tank over a plated buffer tank that would slow u down. Yes I know active tanks are not preferred for pvp but if u want to be faster/more agile downsize the plates and fit an active tank or no tank. Can't have it all so stop whining.
Also u ppl need to learn how to burst ur mwd. Half u rtards keep ur mwd running when u have a target web/scramed in optimal then u ***** about cappin out
I guess your not familiar with the penalty of armor rigs. Like the Nanobot acceleration, and nanobot pump...
Also, Cap hungry guns + cap hungry tank = pro. c/d ?
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2010.04.10 17:18:00 -
[55]
Drones are ok, would be great if they could behave themselves.
The problem for Blaster boats is speed, and that is reduced by fitting plates. And just to add insult to injury speed rigs reduce armor... Boosting non-plate based armor would also boost Amarr too, which would annoy a lot of people (not me obviously though ).
Maybe give Gallente ships a boost to their Cap, up to Amarr proportions and move some of their HP from hull to Armor. I know this would make them more Amarr like, but for speed they could go with dual rep and for more buffer, Energized Regenrative membrane, instead of the Amarr single rep (on most ships) and heavy plate approach, which could still be used for drone and railboats.
Rails just need more DPS.
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Marlona Sky
D00M.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.10 17:30:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kurfin
And just to add insult to injury speed rigs reduce armor...
Don't forget to point out that armor rigs reduce speed too.
Can't get the speed you need to get close enough for blasters because of mods/rigs needed to have enough EHP to survive long enough, and you can't get the armor you need to survive long enough to get close enough because of the mods/rigs needed to get close.
Catch 22?
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