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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
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CCP Pann
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:47:00 -
[1]
Dear capsuleers,
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really donÆt have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.
The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that itÆs time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope youÆll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. WeÆre always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.
Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and weÆre in the process of finding and removing those now.
Fly safe,
~P~
Valerie "Pann" Massey
CCP PR & Communications Director
[email protected]
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:48:00 -
[2]
You just restored my faith in CCP! Yay.
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Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:49:00 -
[3]
FLAWLESS VICTORY!
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Wuff Wuff
The Oliver Postgate Appreciation Club
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:51:00 -
[4]
I tip my hat to you CCP.
- Wuffles
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 05/04/2010 19:56:05
You would think CCP would learn to keep the community informed about changes, NO MATTER HOW MINOR CCP PERCEIVES THE CHANGES TO BE.
And besides, you let a rule go unenforced for SIX YEARS, then it is obviously not a very important rule for you and might as well be abolished.
I'm calling bull**** on your excuse. What company's lawyer was forcing you to do this?
edit: yes I'm glad you're allowing *some* game discussion, though I reserve final judgment for when the rules show up. 
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 -
[6]
OOPE: Rebellion.
Status: Canceled.
CCP ftw!
 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Get off the forums and go kill someone!
CCP Shadow's Troll List. |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 -
[7]
we loves you Pann
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 -
[8]
I'm glad you came to your senses in the end. After all it didn't make any sense why you all of a sudden changed rule 5 in OOPE when even the CCP developers here happily posted about other games (CCP Atrophos regarding Shattered Crystal for example).
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Myxx
Gallente
Daughters of Venus Reborn
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:53:00 -
[9]
Well done.
----
Rule #5 repeal petition
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Last Wolf
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:53:00 -
[10]
CCP by far the best gaming company EVER.
Can I get a job with you?
Oh no you don't!
Incoming witty reply, ETA: 300 seconds! |
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:55:00 -
[11]
Glad you folks saw reason.
-----
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Blood Ghost
Caldari State 1st Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:55:00 -
[12]
Excellent, glad to hear it 
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Karma
Vortex Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:58:00 -
[13]
Excellent news.
Apologies all around to anyone in the GM team I may have offended during this debacle.
you were just doing your job and you got a lot of heat for it.
** goes back into hibernation/lurkmode **
We are gamers, demanding that we stop talking about games is stupid. |
Zofran
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 -
[14]
See, wasnt too hard to explain and be a bit more transparent to your customers, well done and thanks. Let the other parts of CCP learn to do this too and things should start to look up.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 -
[15]
A bit late, but at least you got it right in the end. However, I would hope that you consider two things in planning any (possible) future rules changes:
1) The method involved here was just silly. Stealth-editing the rules thread with absolutely no explanation or apparent reason was guaranteed to provoke a hostile reaction. Next time, just announce the changes along with the reasons for those changes.
2) The response to the initial community outrage was severely lacking. Instead of just mass-locking when we first brought it up, a simple "we are aware of the disagreement and will be making an announcement shortly" might have spared us all the mess of the current OOPE.
==========
Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
* Your signature is locked due to violating forum rules. Please file a petition once you have an appropriate signature - Fallout |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 -
[16]
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'
Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?
Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
Luka Cino
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 -
[17]
I think the Eve-Community just leveled 'Threadnoughting' to Lvl 5.
Gratz guys. Now back to some serious trolling.
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:02:00 -
[18]
HTFU CCP. You stick to your guns or you're going to be stepped on like soggy leaves.
Consider this an official complaint about this rule change, or repeal, or whatever the **** this is.
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CCP Pann
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'
Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?
Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?
Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.
However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."
I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?
Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?
Valerie "Pann" Massey
CCP PR & Communications Director
[email protected]
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:07:00 -
[20]
One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE? For example:
"EVE could really use the ability for custom paint colors. It really wouldn't be a lag issue, if done like in the Homeworld games where pre-set areas of each model can be assigned colors. All you'd have to send to the client is a single RGB value and an area number (for example: {1, 255, 125, 30}), and the feature could even be disabled in the preferences for people who really don't like it."
This is clearly related to EVE, not otherwise objectionable (trolling, etc), and could very plausibly be a constructive comment in a non-OOPE section of the forum. But according to a strict interpretation of the new rules, this suggestion would not be allowed.
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Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
* Your signature is locked due to violating forum rules. Please file a petition once you have an appropriate signature - Fallout |
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Karma
Vortex Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:09:00 -
[21]
uhm.. one small clarification..
Dust 514, where does talk of it go? OOPE, or General Discussion?
It is both technically EVE-related and technically not.
further, would recruitment posts for Dust be allowed?
May be moot questions, as I'm presuming you'll make a separate subforum for it when it gets released.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'
Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?
Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?
Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.
However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."
I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?
Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?
So its basically allowed unless you explicitly say 'join my eve guild'?
>.>
seems a bit sketchy, but lets ride with it for a bit until we screw around with the rules some more
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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CCP Pann
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE?
This actually came up during our discussions about the revising of the rules. You are correct that comparisons are often a necessary part of explaining your point of view and there is a distinct difference between that and discussing another game. If a comparison post branches off into a discussion about the other game, moderators should guide the discussion back on topic and invite those who want to continue to discuss the other game to do so in the OOPE channel.
Valerie "Pann" Massey
CCP PR & Communications Director
[email protected]
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Myxx
Gallente
Daughters of Venus Reborn
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE?
This actually came up during our discussions about the revising of the rules. You are correct that comparisons are often a necessary part of explaining your point of view and there is a distinct difference between that and discussing another game. If a comparison post branches off into a discussion about the other game, moderators should guide the discussion back on topic and invite those who want to continue to discuss the other game to do so in the OOPE channel.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1296542&page=2#31
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:15:00 -
[25]
Is "gb2wow" considered recruitment or just trolling?
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Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Myxx
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1296542&page=2#31
Ya I'd like some "clarification" on this
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
Menkala
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:21:34
Originally by: CCP Pann
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
Firstly, much <3 towards Pann. Great to have you back.
Secondly.... I just... my issue wasn't quite addressed here. In the original OOPE rules thread, it stated that we were allowed to talk about other games. I know this, because I looked it up on eve-search (and for the life of me I can't find it again) before being stealth-edited just before all this palava began. My issue was more with the stealth nerf... rules were changed without news or announcement and a load of topics got turned from legit to non-legit in a matter of minutes.
Thats what bugged me, more than anything
And now I think I'm going insane because I can't find it on eve-search to relink it.
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MickeyKnox
Elysium Trading Company
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Pann
The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long.
Didn't it get ninja-edited just a few days ago?
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Menkala
Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:21:34
Originally by: CCP Pann
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
Firstly, much <3 towards Pann. Great to have you back.
Secondly.... I just... my issue wasn't quite addressed here. In the original OOPE rules thread, it stated that we were allowed to talk about other games. I know this, because I looked it up on eve-search (and for the life of me I can't find it again) before being stealth-edited just before all this palava began. My issue was more with the stealth nerf... rules were changed without news or announcement and a load of topics got turned from legit to non-legit in a matter of minutes.
Thats what bugged me, more than anything
And now I think I'm going insane because I can't find it on eve-search to relink it.
http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Cristopher Dante
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:25:00 -
[30]
-1 Internets for 5 minute timer and new verification process
-1 Internets for destruction of M&D subforum
-2 Internets for initial rule debacle
-1 Internets for delay of proper response
+3 Internets for saving the day.
+2 Internets for rescinding the bans/warnings.
TOTAL: +0 INTERNETZ.
VIVA LES POTATOES.
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Dear capsuleers,
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really donÆt have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.
The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that itÆs time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope youÆll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. WeÆre always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.
Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and weÆre in the process of finding and removing those now.
Fly safe,
~P~
Good to see you guys doing what's right.
I'll apologise for kicking up a fuss about it in the CSM forums, and spreading the link around. You guys over there in Reykjavik are awesome, but this rule was just plain wrong, and was having a seriously crappy effect on the forums.
It's awesome to see that something's been done about it, because it was getting biblically stupid.
<3
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Menkala
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:28:00 -
[32]
http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1
Bingo, thanks Lance.
Yeah, this. This was the OOPE rules up until a few days back. Quite plainly allowed to talk about other games... not something that you came up with years ago that just wasn't paid attention to. (As I'm fairly sure rule 17 was).
I really didn't like the lack of info that accompanied this change.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad everythings fixed and won't say any more on the matter after this, but I would still like an explanation about why it was changed in secret in the first place.
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yfz3r0
Caldari
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:28:00 -
[33]
Good job CCP.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:30:00 -
[34]
Got to love people that can admit when they're wrong and actually do something about it.
Thumbs up CCP for this one.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Menkala
http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1
Bingo, thanks Lance.
Yeah, this. This was the OOPE rules up until a few days back. Quite plainly allowed to talk about other games... not something that you came up with years ago that just wasn't paid attention to. (As I'm fairly sure rule 17 was).
I really didn't like the lack of info that accompanied this change.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad everythings fixed and won't say any more on the matter after this, but I would still like an explanation about why it was changed in secret in the first place.
You have no clue how long it took me to find tha in the first place - I mustve spent the better part of an hour looking for it last week...
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Red Raider
Caldari
Airbourne Demons
DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:31:00 -
[36]
Dust this mean you are going to delete the stupid Dust threads in the assembly hall and elsewhere?
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Zions Child
Caldari
Carthage Industries
Consortium.
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:35:00 -
[37]
Rejoice! For the War of OOPE Has Ended!!! Government and Order Has Returned to the Land! Water and Food For ALL!!!!
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
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CCP Pann
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:37:00 -
[38]
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.
While I'm here again, let me address some of the new questions that have popped up.
1. Continued moderation/locking of posts and signatures related to this brouhaha is being done under my orders. We can't move forward if people are still beating that poor, dead horse. If I thought offering a pint of blood or a pound of Oreos would make things better, I would, but it won't. Some folks will just have to be mad until they aren't mad anymore and I don't have a magic "cheesed off" eraser. Boy, would my life be simpler if I did. 
2. Mashie: Yes, "gb2wow" is considered trolling and will not be permitted. If you think you have some compelling reason why that shouldn't be considered trolling but instead is actually a constructive post, you're welcome to send in a petition explaining your reasons why.
3. Lance: Even inviting people to join a group/guild/clan/etc. exclusively for EVE players in another game would be against the rules for this forum but you would still be able to invite people in the manner I described with the HKO example. I think that's fair. As I said to Mashie, you're welcome to send in a petition to explain your counterpoint if you have one.
4. Karma: A dedicated DUST 514 site is in development though I don't have an ETA. Until then, DUST 514 discussions can happen here in OOPE or on the official DUST 514 Facebook page.
Valerie "Pann" Massey
CCP PR & Communications Director
[email protected]
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Menkala
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
You have no clue how long it took me to find tha in the first place - I mustve spent the better part of an hour looking for it last week...
Yeaaah im just glad im not going insane like I thought I was after having found it in 5minutes last night, and not been able to track it down in about 45mins tonight.
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Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:42:00 -
[40]
I guess that's a fair point for my sig...makes me sad that my pretty sig didn't even last a whole day though. And so many people were using it too!  O well, at least I didn't pay an excessive amount of isk for it. I at least have a copy saved as a memento.
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:43:00 -
[41]
menkala 
Pann: fair enough, and I/we really appreciate your efforts to fix the mess, no matter whos fault it was
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
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Posted - 2010.04.05 20:57:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Xen Gin on 05/04/2010 20:59:19
Originally by: CCP Pann
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.
Thanks for the apology, but still we don't get an explanation on what started this "domino effect". But I suspect you will just say some fluff about collective failure of community management, and not actually owning up to what we all know about how this started. CCP's failure to correct one of it's own, supporting them via stealth edits, allowing on a whim rules, and going up against the community, has been a PR disaster for CCP and devastating for the OOPE community.
_________________________________
## You got that? Right I'll be back in approximately 300 seconds to retort! ## |
Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:06:00 -
[43]
Pann,
Thank you so very much for taking the time to look into this and help us with a resolution.
/much lovins
me
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Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:07:00 -
[44]
Props for dealing with this and explaining everything so nicely.
Now please unban Gladys Pank for trying to cheer up OOPE in this time of darkness. I didn't even break any rules.
----
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Culmen
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:18:00 -
[45]
Mark April 5th as VF-day
Victory Forum
Not just for the posters, but for the mods and the community as a whole!
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 05/04/2010 21:22:37
Good to see that this has come to a positive conclusion.
Originally by: Zeba
OOPE: Rebellion.
Status: Canceled.
CCP ftw!
Woot
\o/
EDIT:
Originally by: Culmen
Mark April 5th as VF-day
Victory Forum
Not just for the posters, but for the mods and the community as a whole!
Slade
Rule #5 Repeal Petition |
Red Raider
Caldari
Airbourne Demons
DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: CCP Pann
4. Karma: A dedicated DUST 514 site is in development though I don't have an ETA. Until then, DUST 514 discussions can happen here in OOPE or on the official DUST 514 Facebook page.
Originally by: Red Raider
Does this mean you are going to delete the stupid Dust threads in the assembly hall and elsewhere?
This is like going to the Ghost Recon forum to complain about HAWX. Just because the games share some things doesn't make it an exception to the rule. They are completely different types of games and I don't understand how a massive emo rage that breaks the rules is allowed to persist.
Move it over here where they can whine all day and it not clog up the cogs of EVE. The Assembly Hall and FIAD has enough problems without that drivel being posted in it regularly.
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:49:00 -
[48]
Posting in the official OOPE community/CCP wuv thread, woo!
My apologies to the mods who had to put up with us. I sowwee.
-
Paknac Queltel
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Karma
Vortex Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:53:00 -
[49]
oh.. and
First rule of OOPE: we accept your revised Rule #5... for now.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:54:00 -
[50]
Good to see that CCP is quick in correcting mistakes instead of glancing them over with gratuitous application of the banhammer. I'd say forum rule changes would be considered 'essential change' in the future and should trigger a devblog prior implementation to allow a discussion about the sense and nonsense of the changes in the feedback thread.
Also, Yay!
--------
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:05:00 -
[51]
Good to see CCP still listen to their playerbase, it's one of the reasons I still play EVE after so long... but I was worried there for a minute
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
Tobias Xiaosen
Gallente
TX Holdings Company
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:18:00 -
[52]
Gotta admit, i've never had this much fun on a forum before. OOPE:Rebellion was pretty epic in that respect 
So for that, GG CCP. GG
Signature not appropriate - Adida |
Natasja Podinski
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:27:00 -
[53]
so maybe now we can have a chat about sigs!?
cant belive some noobassadmin nerfed my sig because it was 47 pixels too wide! seriously!
get real!
it was even smaller than 24kb!
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Adida
the best internetbride
for sexy katalog send 1KK ISK |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Xen Gin
Edited by: Xen Gin on 05/04/2010 20:59:19
Originally by: CCP Pann
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.
Thanks for the apology, but still we don't get an explanation on what started this "domino effect". But I suspect you will just say some fluff about collective failure of community management, and not actually owning up to what we all know about how this started. CCP's failure to correct one of it's own, supporting them via stealth edits, allowing on a whim rules, and going up against the community, has been a PR disaster for CCP and devastating for the OOPE community.
Most likely they were trying to get some consistency with things, as needs to be done with whatever business you happen to be running. Unfortunately, it kinda backfired with some decisions that "looked good at the time" but were actually counter productive to maintaining a happy medium.
I wouldn't call it a PR disaster since the number of people that read the forums is pretty miniscule to the actual number of players playing. You'd be surprised but on average only about 5-10% of players of the majority of mmos out there care enough to read the forums of said games, and even less bother to post. Considering this is the off topic discussion, I would venture a guess that less than 1% of the player base even looks at this board.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Karma
Vortex Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:33:00 -
[55]
oh... one request.
could you unlock a few of the more productive topics? As an example, the mass effect 2 topic.
Perhaps prune the last page and a half, as those posts are only about the new rule(tm).
Up until that point, it was a *very* productive and good thread, pretty much devoid of trolls and spam.
right... now I shall go hibernate, for real. <lurkmoad>
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:45:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Lance Fighter on 05/04/2010 22:45:31
could we remind shadow that quit posts are allowed, and the one he just locked is perfectly legal?
edit:
4: Quit posts are allowed, however we ask you to only post that you are leaving and say goodbye to your friends, rants and non-constructive posts will be removed.
:rolleyes:
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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CCP Pann
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:51:00 -
[57]
Karma: I have advised the team to look over threads that were locked in the last three days and unlock the productive ones, tidying up a bit as necessary. It may be tomorrow before you start seeing progress there so please bear with us a bit longer and trust that it will happen.
Lance: Please file a petition if you disagree with moderation decisions. The rule about not discussing those matters on the forum still stands.
Valerie "Pann" Massey
CCP PR & Communications Director
[email protected]
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:59:00 -
[58]
Would it be possible to allow the 'report' button to work on locked threads?
It seems rather roundabout to require someone to goto to the support section, log in (again -.- ) create a petition with links and all..
Anyway, its largely unimportant, feel free to ignore me really
Originally by: CCP Shadow
Have you ever wished you could have prevented a train wreck before it actually happened? I need to stop this one before the craziness begins.
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Iva Posavec
Posavec Innovations
Takhar Matari
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:03:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Iva Posavec on 05/04/2010 23:04:34
Hugs and kisses to all at CCP, especially the ladies. Seriously though good going although the OOPE forums has been a mess the last few days I am glad things are resolved as far as gaming discussions go. Now the 5 minute timers and repeated log-in issues to fix.
edit: Also a petition that I made regarding the issue was replied to promptly so another thumbs up to the moderation team.
Alliance Creation |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.04.05 23:38:00 -
[60]
I applaud CCP Pann on an excellent post and excellent decisions.
What is being done so this does not happen again? Hey I certainly love showing how foolish and ridiculous mods are and being proven right, but I would think you should care about your own reputation.
Oh yeah and enough with the stealth editing and deleting of posts to cover your tracks. We have eve-search and frankly we play EVE and thus we are much, much craftier than you. We caught you on ghost-training, we caught you on this and we will catch you again 
Originally by: Jim Raynor
EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
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jason hill
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
THE FEW.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 00:10:00 -
[61]
welcome back pann its been a while ... and thankyou for having some level headednes in these rather difficult past couple of days ...... mind you though ...it was rather fun
destroy everything you touch |
Cikulisuy
Amarr
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.06 00:20:00 -
[62]
happy days!
nub> you cant mine so you kill. |
Kallieah
The Unknown Bar and Pub
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.06 00:59:00 -
[63]
Really, thanks for hearing the community and working with us. In spite of the fact that we go about expressing our opinions in the most obnoxious ways possible, the CCP team got to the heart of the issue and came to a fair and reasonable conclusion.
I'll be putting away my 514 Dusty Encarta Encyclopedias now and going back to station spinning instead of station spinning with an IGB window open hawking over OOPE. In fact, I might even make a constructive comment in a thread in the future. Anything's possible.
Cheers Pann and the CCP team!
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 01:08:00 -
[64]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Dear capsuleers,
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really donÆt have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.
The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that itÆs time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope youÆll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. WeÆre always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.
Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and weÆre in the process of finding and removing those now.
Fly safe,
~P~
Paragon +50
:)
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 03:00:00 -
[65]
silly rule removed
order restored
info/replies posted in an understandable way meant to take the sting out of the issue
Job well done.
-----------
I think, therefore I'm single.
Want to learn combat/PVP?
Alliance creation service |
Jill Xelitras
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Posted - 2010.04.06 04:24:00 -
[66]
Thank you mods.
Thank you community for all the creative posts.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.06 07:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Dear capsuleers,
Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.
I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.
The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really donÆt have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.
The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that itÆs time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope youÆll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. WeÆre always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.
Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and weÆre in the process of finding and removing those now.
Fly safe,
~P~
Win.
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BackWard
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.04.06 07:41:00 -
[68]
Welldone Pann ...nice to see commonsense prevail
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.06 11:12:00 -
[69]
Originally by: CCP Pann
We screwed up and we're sorry.
CCP admits they ****ed up and say that they are sorry?
I'm glad that we can now move on with this issue, although it shouldn't have taken so long so you to read the backlash from the community.
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QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.04.06 12:52:00 -
[70]
About time.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:25:00 -
[71]
With admitting that the rules were screwed up and apologizing / lifting bans and locks CCP shows more backbone than most other developers would do with a gun pointed at them.
It took some time, though. (But then it always does with CCP)
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:51:00 -
[72]
Good to see you guys taking a stance on this more befitting a self-confident game company, with the expected respect for the customer that goes with that.
Reconsidering last week's rule change has restored your professionalism in my view. Thank You.
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forum |
Taedrin
Gallente
The Green Cross
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.04.06 17:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP Pann
However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."
I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?
What about: It's patch day in EVE today. Let's stress test the WoW servers to see how well they handle 50k simultaneous users (or failing that, how they handle 700v700 engagements)
----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter
"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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DJ Obsidian
New Eden Technical Institutes
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Posted - 2010.04.06 17:11:00 -
[74]
+5 internets to CCP Pann
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Larg Kellein
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.06 21:35:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Larg Kellein on 06/04/2010 21:39:06
Originally by: CCP Pann
If I thought offering a pint of blood or a pound of Oreos would make things better, I would, but it won't.
You don't know unless you try.. Now make with the tasty cream filled cookies
Seriously, as much fun as I had with the rebellion, I'm glad to see it end. You guys did good, it's much harder to admit a decision wasn't working out that it is to kill it with silence. The fact that you guys do listen to your players is a major reason I'm playing Eve and will be for years to come.
Edited to hide evidence of my failtastic quoting.
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ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Metal Machine
Chaos Theory Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 01:14:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'
Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?
Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?
Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.
However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."
I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?
Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?
Plus, it's a nice way of trying not to look spiteful about people discussing games made by competitors yes?
God forbid people should choose not to spend their money on EvE
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Captain Muscles
Caldari
Clan Farthammer
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Posted - 2010.04.07 19:04:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ShadowMaiden
Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'
Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?
Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?
Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.
However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."
I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?
Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?
Plus, it's a nice way of trying not to look spiteful about people discussing games made by competitors yes?
God forbid people should choose not to spend their money on EvE
God forbid people talk about Eve on Eve forums and Hello Kitty on Hello Kitty forums. Hell, why don't we make a new sub-forum for the express purpose of recruiting for other games so CCP can foot the bill for other companies to advertise their games to Eve players.
BTW Lvl 80 Samurai LFG
Oh jeez, clearly I need help if I can't find anything more important to than to troll/countertroll the forums. :(
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2010.04.08 02:46:00 -
[78]
Yay \0/ I can post again. CCP win and OOPE is the best community eveh!
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Everseeker
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:50:00 -
[79]
Originally by: CCP Pann
...If I thought offering a pint of blood or a pound of Oreos would make things better, I would, but it won't.....
Woah!
Lat's not be too hasty bout them Oreos.....
--
EverSeeker |
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2010.04.09 22:43:00 -
[80]
This: Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen
Gotta admit, i've never had this much fun on a forum before. OOPE:Rebellion was pretty epic in that respect
So for that, GG CCP. GG
I never was, and probably never will be a regular visitor of OOPE, but I made an exception this time.
I thank the entire community team and co. for their wise decision, not just the bringer of the good news.
 On a side note, after reading the OOPE rules post, there is still some uncertainty for nanve innocent little me about what kind of *-ography I'm not supposed to post here. Discography? Photography? Cartography? Histography? Macrography?.... I could go on for a while, you know?
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.04.11 23:21:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Che Biko
On a side note, after reading the OOPE rules post, there is still some uncertainty for nanve innocent little me about what kind of *-ography I'm not supposed to post here. Discography? Photography? Cartography? Histography? Macrography?.... I could go on for a while, you know?
Just post samples of each type and you will find out when you get it wrong.
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Sian Kalash
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Posted - 2010.04.17 22:57:00 -
[82]
Ah, Pann  This post is a good example of why you were a good community manager tbh. Down to earth, straightforward and transparent. Cheers for addressing the issue and glad it's resolved, cause it was getting kinda silly.
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